Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: Johnathorn on October 29, 2024, 11:30:28 am
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All this legal jargon is a bit overwhelming for me. Can anyone help clarify whether it’s worth challenging this TFL Bus Lane PCN, or whether that’s not an option as the law will hold me responsible despite hire agreement etc? Also, TFL mentioned in their response that the hire agreement needs to be 6 months or more to transfer liability in bus lane violations, which is confusing because usually transfer of liability is done only for agreements under 6 months. Any advice would be appreciated as I'm still as confused as I was when I first started this post.
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Hire agreements are contracts and it is open to the hire company to protect themselves against liability by adopting what are pretty standard terms.
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The issue is this: the company will force the person who hired to pay which is against the asinine law.
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Why to force companies to pay for the mistakes of those who have hired vehicles from them.
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If the hirer could successfully make reps against the PCN, then why couldn't you. Result, £0 to you.
And if they couldn't:
Then if you could transfer, then the hirer pays the penalty. Result £0 to you.
And if you couldn't but worded your hire agreements in such a way that the hirer was liable* then ...Result to you £0.
*- which is the standard BVLRA form of agreement.
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That's the law. I discussed homogeneity with one adjudicator today after the hearing.
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"That sounds a bit like perverting the course of justice."
I think its a perversion of the justice system to force companies to pay for the mistakes of those who have hired vehicles from them. Besides since there are two separate laws that govern the two different PCNs I will just say I have two agreements drafted one for the purposes of parking PCNs and one for moving contravention PCNs. Simples
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Should I try drafting a new hire agreement that’s over 6 months with my driver, backdate it, and give it another shot with TFL? Or is there something else I’m missing here? Any advice would be much appreciated! Thanks in advance, legends.
That sounds a bit like perverting the course of justice.
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Well, sorry, but all traffic legislation in the UK is a complete Dog's Breakfast at the moment, with parking PCNs coming under the Traffic Management Act, but moving traffic PCNs coming under either a London-specific Act, or, outside London, the Traffic Management Act, (since 2022)
So if the legislation doesn't allow the transfer, that's it ! You need to look at your hire agreement and amend it.
Anyway, here is the Act; have a read.
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukla/1996/9/contents/enacted
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Hey good day folks,
I could use a bit of help wrapping my head around something. I rent out my vehicle to a driver, and for a parking PCN from TFL, I managed to successfully transfer liability to the driver—easy enough. But when I tried the same trick for a bus lane PCN, TFL shot me down. A little digging online tells me this might be some sort of sneaky legal loophole that maintains registered keepers be liable for bus lane contraventions regardless of hire agreements.
Now, here’s where it gets interesting because TFL’s reasoning has left me in a bit of a head-scratch. I know that, typically, for liability transfer to work, the hire agreement has to be under 6 months. But in the notice of rejection I received from TFL, they stated this:
“You have stated that you are a hire company, and the contravening vehicle was on hire at the time of the contravention. Please be advised that The London Local Authorities Act 1996 does not make provision for the transfer of liability to the hirer for bus lane contraventions, unless the hire agreement has a start and end date which covers the date of contravention and must be for a period of 6 months or longer. Therefore, we are unable to transfer liability for this charge.”
Wait, what?! For regular liability transfer, it needs to be under 6 months, but for bus lane contraventions, it has to be 6 months or more? This is some next level type of contradictory orca sh*t I've not encountered before!
Should I try drafting a new hire agreement that’s over 6 months with my driver, backdate it, and give it another shot with TFL? Or is there something else I’m missing here? Any advice would be much appreciated! Thanks in advance, legends.