Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: teatree04 on October 24, 2024, 10:28:48 pm
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No, they're just incompetent.
This plays into your hands and IMO you are 100% of winning your appeal.
You've included procedural impropriety in your grounds of appeal and this faux pas falls under this heading.
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I registered my appeal on 3rd October. The notice of rejection gave me 28 days to register the appeal and it was dated 5/9/25 (though I didn't receive it till a couple of days after). So it's weird that they sent the charge certificate before the deadline had expired for lodging an appeal with the London tribunal isn't it?
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What was the date for your London Tribunals appeal registration ? The Charge Certificate is dated 3rd October; when did you receive it ?
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I hope not!
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Thank you so much. This is what I was sent: https://ibb.co/60kt3gJT
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I've submitted my appeal which has now been accepted by the London Tribunal. I have a hearing scheduled for 20th February 2026 to explain my case to the adjudicator. In the meantime, Havering has written to me saying the fine has been increased.
Please post up what they have sent, as it could be an illegal request for money, as you've registered an appeal.
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I've submitted my appeal which has now been accepted by the London Tribunal. I have a hearing scheduled for 20th February 2026 to explain my case to the adjudicator. In the meantime, Havering has written to me saying the fine has been increased.
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Appeal IMO.
Yet again a complete failure to advise the owner of their rights to appeal:
3Where any representations are made under paragraph 1 above but the enforcing authority do not accept that a ground has been established, the notice served under sub-paragraph (7) of the said paragraph 1 (in this Schedule referred to as “the notice of rejection”) must—
(a)state that a charge certificate may be served under paragraph 5 below unless before the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the date of service of the notice of rejection—
(i)the penalty charge is paid; or
(ii)the person on whom the notice is served appeals to a traffic adjudicator against the penalty charge; and
(b)describe in general terms the form and manner in which such an appeal must be made,
and may contain such other information as the enforcing authority consider appropriate.
Misstated twice and owner's right to apply to adjudicator to register an appeal beyond the regulatory period has been omitted in its entirety.
And misstated their power to serve a Charge Certificate.
There are a few other pages including a Q&A page included with the letter. I uploaded these as well and the links are available here:
https://ibb.co/C52QK4Nj
https://ibb.co/xRvTM5W
https://ibb.co/cKvJWwbk
https://ibb.co/rRbM19vY
https://ibb.co/Rp3wXqMZ
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Thanks for this, where is that taken from?
I'm working on an appeal. Does that mean that their failure to properly state the appeal options could mean their case gets rejected?
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Appeal IMO.
Yet again a complete failure to advise the owner of their rights to appeal:
3Where any representations are made under paragraph 1 above but the enforcing authority do not accept that a ground has been established, the notice served under sub-paragraph (7) of the said paragraph 1 (in this Schedule referred to as “the notice of rejection”) must—
(a)state that a charge certificate may be served under paragraph 5 below unless before the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the date of service of the notice of rejection—
(i)the penalty charge is paid; or
(ii)the person on whom the notice is served appeals to a traffic adjudicator against the penalty charge; and
(b)describe in general terms the form and manner in which such an appeal must be made,
and may contain such other information as the enforcing authority consider appropriate.
Misstated twice and owner's right to apply to adjudicator to register an appeal beyond the regulatory period has been omitted in its entirety.
And misstated their power to serve a Charge Certificate.
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Thank you for helping to sort that out.
Is there any advice on the next steps?
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Fot convenience:
(https://i.ibb.co/99tWHBzx/IMG-8454.jpg) (https://ibb.co/C52QK4Nj)
(https://i.ibb.co/S9TCKvb/IMG-8448.jpg) (https://ibb.co/xRvTM5W)
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I've now received notice that my appeal was rejected. I'm having some difficulty attaching the letter though
The use of attachments to post docs and images here is not recommended.
The easiest way to upload docs and images here (unless you have no mobile phone camera) is to use yr phone to photo each page of each doc, redacting yr name & address where it occurs, and uploading the images to an external site like https://ibb.co/ or imgur and copy and then post the BBCodes here. I use ibb with no probs. (Scroll down past the image to see the BBCode.)
See
https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/
(https://ibb.co/pjxYMHF7)
https://ibb.co/C52QK4Nj
https://ibb.co/xRvTM5W
https://ibb.co/cKvJWwbk
https://ibb.co/rRbM19vY
https://ibb.co/Rp3wXqMZ
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I've now received notice that my appeal was rejected. I'm having some difficulty attaching the letter though
The use of attachments to post docs and images here is not recommended.
The easiest way to upload docs and images here (unless you have no mobile phone camera) is to use yr phone to photo each page of each doc, redacting yr name & address where it occurs, and uploading the images to an external site like https://ibb.co/ or imgur and copy and then post the BBCodes here. I use ibb with no probs. (Scroll down past the image to see the BBCode.)
See
https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/
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I've now received notice that my appeal was rejected. I'm having some difficulty attaching the letter though
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OK for me. They will reject it as normal and then you can register an appeal at London Tribunals.
Thanks for your help. I've submitted the appeal now
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OK for me. They will reject it as normal and then you can register an appeal at London Tribunals.
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Look at your Post #33. There is an outline appeal there. Don't worry if they reject it, because Havering will not re-offer the discount, so then you'd be able to register an appeal at London Tribunals, and the matter will be looked at dispassionately there. The enormous problem with all councils responding to PCNs is that they keep the penalty money, so can never, ever, be unbiased.
Thank you for this. I've drafted something now, does this look ok?
Dear Havering Council,
I make these formal representations against PCN:
1. The PCN does not particularise what vehicles are restricted.
I have read the PCN, watched the video of the alleged contravention, looked through google maps and shown the video and letter to others, yet despite my best efforts, it is still not clear what the alleged offence was. Having reviewed the video, it is unclear what reason (or signage) that would have been present that would have required any reasonable driver to do a u-turn at a pedestrian crossing instead of going through a green light. I considered just paying the fine however as there is no adequate explanation of the alleged contravention, it would set a disturbing precedent and there is a likelihood that I could receive a future fine for a contravention I similarly know nothing about.
2. There is no evidence of a sign allegedly passed or indeed any other signage such as a legend.
The evidence provided so far has failed to show that there was a sign which gave direction against the driver’s actions. There is no evidence that such a sign;
a) does exist
b) was there on a specific night last year
c) was there legitimately
The evidence provided by the council in support of the PCN fails to demonstrate any of the above points.
3. The PCN does not include the option to pay by post.
Therefore, in light of the above, please cancel it.
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Look at your Post #33. There is an outline appeal there. Don't worry if they reject it, because Havering will not re-offer the discount, so then you'd be able to register an appeal at London Tribunals, and the matter will be looked at dispassionately there. The enormous problem with all councils responding to PCNs is that they keep the penalty money, so can never, ever, be unbiased.
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Thank you for the reply, that's the bit I'm unclear on (what has been suggested). Is it that I should appeal? If so, I've found some wording and was trying to get guidance on whether that's what I should use. Can you please help/advise?
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Best if you ignore the thread highjacker, and go with what has been suggested by us.
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Hi,
I’m in a situation with the same scenario. If anyone can help/advise I would be very grateful. I’ll try keep it brief. The first letter I received was to say I had not paid the penalty charge (same location, same offence code). New charge was now £195 up from £130. I called the number and was sent a link to view the evidence. Video and picture evidence showed nothing with regards the offence, just my van driving down the road. According to them I couldn’t appeal until a third letter was sent. When I received this I appealed stating I didn’t not receive the original letter and I haven’t been given notice on what the actual offence was. Having reading all these posts it seems the exact same. I had a judge witness my signature as it requests (what a joke and scam that is, scaring people to just pay up I suspect!). The problem was I made a mistake on the form. I entered my details as the driver, not the business which the van is registered to. They sent the form back. I then had to resend with the details of the business and not me. I then receive another letter saying I’m out of time and had to declare that. Well I wasn’t out of time replying, but I did make a mistake on the (very confusing) form. I sent the next form back (again had to be witnessed by a judge!) stating I hadn’t received the first letter and also had to sign the out of time form. They basically forced me to do this. Today I’ve now received a notice of enforcement and it’s now £280! No acknowledgement of my appeal, or the fact they never sent an initial fine letter, just the one saying it was unpaid! How is this even legal, it feels like a massive scam. Can someone please help? Thanks.
Start your own thread, please. Rule is one OP per thread. Of course you can keep looking at this one.
Also please read this before you start your thread:-
https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/
Please can you provide some guidance on whether I should appeal using the wording above?
I'm a bit confused. Have I missed something really obvious? I thought we were meant to ask for advice/guidance in here and people might be able to help but it seems that no one is responding to my requests for help with this. Did I breach a forum rule or something?
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Hi,
I’m in a situation with the same scenario. If anyone can help/advise I would be very grateful. I’ll try keep it brief. The first letter I received was to say I had not paid the penalty charge (same location, same offence code). New charge was now £195 up from £130. I called the number and was sent a link to view the evidence. Video and picture evidence showed nothing with regards the offence, just my van driving down the road. According to them I couldn’t appeal until a third letter was sent. When I received this I appealed stating I didn’t not receive the original letter and I haven’t been given notice on what the actual offence was. Having reading all these posts it seems the exact same. I had a judge witness my signature as it requests (what a joke and scam that is, scaring people to just pay up I suspect!). The problem was I made a mistake on the form. I entered my details as the driver, not the business which the van is registered to. They sent the form back. I then had to resend with the details of the business and not me. I then receive another letter saying I’m out of time and had to declare that. Well I wasn’t out of time replying, but I did make a mistake on the (very confusing) form. I sent the next form back (again had to be witnessed by a judge!) stating I hadn’t received the first letter and also had to sign the out of time form. They basically forced me to do this. Today I’ve now received a notice of enforcement and it’s now £280! No acknowledgement of my appeal, or the fact they never sent an initial fine letter, just the one saying it was unpaid! How is this even legal, it feels like a massive scam. Can someone please help? Thanks.
Start your own thread, please. Rule is one OP per thread. Of course you can keep looking at this one.
Also please read this before you start your thread:-
https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/
Please can you provide some guidance on whether I should appeal using the wording above?
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Hi,
I’m in a situation with the same scenario. If anyone can help/advise I would be very grateful. I’ll try keep it brief. The first letter I received was to say I had not paid the penalty charge (same location, same offence code). New charge was now £195 up from £130. I called the number and was sent a link to view the evidence. Video and picture evidence showed nothing with regards the offence, just my van driving down the road. According to them I couldn’t appeal until a third letter was sent. When I received this I appealed stating I didn’t not receive the original letter and I haven’t been given notice on what the actual offence was. Having reading all these posts it seems the exact same. I had a judge witness my signature as it requests (what a joke and scam that is, scaring people to just pay up I suspect!). The problem was I made a mistake on the form. I entered my details as the driver, not the business which the van is registered to. They sent the form back. I then had to resend with the details of the business and not me. I then receive another letter saying I’m out of time and had to declare that. Well I wasn’t out of time replying, but I did make a mistake on the (very confusing) form. I sent the next form back (again had to be witnessed by a judge!) stating I hadn’t received the first letter and also had to sign the out of time form. They basically forced me to do this. Today I’ve now received a notice of enforcement and it’s now £280! No acknowledgement of my appeal, or the fact they never sent an initial fine letter, just the one saying it was unpaid! How is this even legal, it feels like a massive scam. Can someone please help? Thanks.
Start your own thread, please. Rule is one OP per thread. Of course you can keep looking at this one.
Also please read this before you start your thread:-
https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/
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The first letter
[attachment deleted by admin]
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Hi,
I’m in a situation with the same scenario. If anyone can help/advise I would be very grateful. I’ll try keep it brief. The first letter I received was to say I had not paid the penalty charge (same location, same offence code). New charge was now £195 up from £130. I called the number and was sent a link to view the evidence. Video and picture evidence showed nothing with regards the offence, just my van driving down the road. According to them I couldn’t appeal until a third letter was sent. When I received this I appealed stating I didn’t not receive the original letter and I haven’t been given notice on what the actual offence was. Having reading all these posts it seems the exact same. I had a judge witness my signature as it requests (what a joke and scam that is, scaring people to just pay up I suspect!). The problem was I made a mistake on the form. I entered my details as the driver, not the business which the van is registered to. They sent the form back. I then had to resend with the details of the business and not me. I then receive another letter saying I’m out of time and had to declare that. Well I wasn’t out of time replying, but I did make a mistake on the (very confusing) form. I sent the next form back (again had to be witnessed by a judge!) stating I hadn’t received the first letter and also had to sign the out of time form. They basically forced me to do this. Today I’ve now received a notice of enforcement and it’s now £280! No acknowledgement of my appeal, or the fact they never sent an initial fine letter, just the one saying it was unpaid! How is this even legal, it feels like a massive scam. Can someone please help? Thanks.
[attachment deleted by admin]
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Can I use the same template suggested in the other thread?
Dear Havering
I make these formal representations against PCN :
1. The PCN does not particularise what vehicles are restricted.
2. The PCN contains two lists of grounds, one of which wrongly includes a ground re the traffic order being invalid which, itself, invalidates the PCN.
3. There is no evidence of a sign allegedly passed or indeed any other signage such as a legend.
4. The PCN does not include the option to pay by post.
Therefore, in light of the above, please cancel it.
Yours faithfully
Name
Address
Could someone please help me?
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I can't think of anything it might have been that would have required OP to do a u-turn at a pedestrian crossing instead of going through a green light.
At adjudication the burden would be on the Council to convince the adjudicator that such a sign;
a) does exist
b) was there on a specific night last year
c) was there legitimately
I think they will struggle.
This is helpful to note. Is there an appeal template letter you'd suggest using? I saw the thread below which seems to have been a similar issue. Would you suggest using the wording they used?
https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/havering-council-no-evidence-of-pcn-contravention-shown-in-video-footage/
I've realised I didn't upload all the PCN, apologies. Also reading that thread it seems there's an issue with the PCN, does that apply to this one?
[attachment deleted by admin]
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I can't think of anything it might have been that would have required OP to do a u-turn at a pedestrian crossing instead of going through a green light.
At adjudication the burden would be on the Council to convince the adjudicator that such a sign;
a) does exist
b) was there on a specific night last year
c) was there legitimately
I think they will struggle.
This is helpful to note. Is there an appeal template letter you'd suggest using? I saw the thread below which seems to have been a similar issue. Would you suggest using the wording they used?
https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/havering-council-no-evidence-of-pcn-contravention-shown-in-video-footage/
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I can't think of anything it might have been that would have required OP to do a u-turn at a pedestrian crossing instead of going through a green light.
At adjudication the burden would be on the Council to convince the adjudicator that such a sign;
a) does exist
b) was there on a specific night last year
c) was there legitimately
I think they will struggle.
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I think GSV might be out of date. In the video it looks like there are two signs under each of the traffic lights. But I can't make out what they indicate. GSV seems to have one sign under each traffic light, no right turn.
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The video plays for me, I'm using VLC player from https://www.videolan.org for playback.
If just shows the OP driving past a green light. There is part of a no entry sign visible in the video, but it looks to me to be indicating no right turn, and the OP seems to be goings straight on not right (although the video cuts off at that point).
The closest I can get GSV to it is here (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Romford/@51.5747927,0.1836407,3a,42.8y,341.4h,88.02t/data=!3m8!1e1!3m6!1s8vGMryDGAyVA0s01Go8WLg!2e0!5s20170601T000000!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fcb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26pitch%3D1.98450779873599%26panoid%3D8vGMryDGAyVA0s01Go8WLg%26yaw%3D341.3972902218959!7i13312!8i6656!4m7!3m6!1s0x47d8a23174b37231:0x932de78a76329f31!8m2!3d51.5775231!4d0.1785814!10e5!16zL20vMG5jMWM?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI1MDYwNC4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D) (a similar but not identical angle to the video), so I think the council would have some explaining to do if this went to adjudication.
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Your video won't open
I've looked at what's written as well as the stills and video and it's not clear at all what the contravention was.
The alleged contravention is on the PCN, that's why we need to see it.
I've posted the PCN now. What's the best way to upload the video?
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Can you show us the PCN please?
Sorry I forgot I hadn't uploaded it. Here it is
[attachment deleted by admin]
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Your video won't open
I've looked at what's written as well as the stills and video and it's not clear at all what the contravention was.
The alleged contravention is on the PCN, that's why we need to see it.
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Can you show us the PCN please?
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This is the video they provided but I'm not sure what the contravention was
[attachment deleted by admin]
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I don't know if anyone's familiar with this location, but South Street had signs at the south end with the "flying motor bike" and "except for access" in an oblong box below. I've driven buses in that area but never had cause to use South street as my route was from the station and head east. I thought South Street was buses only, but GSV shows what I've just described. Does the PCN even have the correct offence code on it?
This is a very good question, I don't actually know the answer. I've just received the new PCN from Havering today. I've looked at what's written as well as the stills and video and it's not clear at all what the contravention was. I don't know whether to just try and find the £65 to pay it or whether there's a realistic appeal there. Shall I try and find a way to upload the video?
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I don't know if anyone's familiar with this location, but South Street had signs at the south end with the "flying motor bike" and "except for access" in an oblong box below. I've driven buses in that area but never had cause to use South street as my route was from the station and head east. I thought South Street was buses only, but GSV shows what I've just described. Does the PCN even have the correct offence code on it?
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Finally received the revoking order from the TEC (this was a few weeks back) but I'm yet to receive anything further from Havering
[attachment deleted by admin]
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'We do not keep invalid applications'!
They're not holding your form waiting to pair it with an application from the council.
You have to resubmit. But when is the question because the ball's in the council's court although they'd have you believe it's not and that they've passed it over to TEC. You'll just have to check.
And on a point of accuracy, if your grounds are that you did not receive the PCN then the next stage is for the council to reissue.
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So I already got the PE3 signed and witnessed and sent to the TEC who then replied saying that the PCN wasn’t on their system as it’s not been registered on their system.
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Within 21 days of the date of the OFR you must choose the appropriate box, book an appointment asap with a court or solicitor and sign it only then in front of a witness. Then e mail it to TRC.
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I've finally received the order for recovery (after I've been chasing since November).
Can you post it here, please.
Apparently Havering are in a state of complete and utter chaos. I suggest you contact them to ask them why, if they have sent you an OfR, they have not registered the debt at TEC. Show them a copy of the TEC letter.
Sorry here is the order for recovery
[attachment deleted by admin]
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I've finally received the order for recovery (after I've been chasing since November).
Can you post it here, please.
Apparently Havering are in a state of complete and utter chaos. I suggest you contact them to ask them why, if they have sent you an OfR, they have not registered the debt at TEC. Show them a copy of the TEC letter.
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I've sent off the statutory declaration now and just waiting to hear back. Would it be worth appealing the decision or would you advise I just pay the lower amount?
I got the attached and spoke to the court today. Apparently they've not received this from Havering despite Havering saying it's been lodged with the TEC. Has this happened before? Any advice on what to do? I'm concerned about the deadline ending and this being progressed
[attachment deleted by admin]
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I've sent off the statutory declaration now and just waiting to hear back. Would it be worth appealing the decision or would you advise I just pay the lower amount?
No you cannot. They will refer the matter to the Tribunal which is the stage I have offered to represent you.
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A tad premature to suggest paying as you've not got a PCN (perhaps you've not completed the SD correctly- remember, the witness signatory doesn't check anything, only you signing!).
Anyway, assuming a PCN arrives in time we need to check regulatory compliance and the quality of their evidence.
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I've sent off the statutory declaration now and just waiting to hear back. Would it be worth appealing the decision or would you advise I just pay the lower amount?
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I've finally received the order for recovery (after I've been chasing since November). I have the signed statutory declaration, so I plan to send that off to the address stated today. I think that's the right steps in order but please shout if I've missed anything
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It seems like an inefficient process where the fine has to be increased first before I can let them know I didn't receive the original PCN
Cumbersome, but on the other hand the reset to the original PCN and penalty is automatic as long as the process is followed correctly and no deadlines missed. Miss a deadline now and it becomes very messy and expensive.
Indeed it does, and we've seen them on this forum and on the now-closed Pepipoo forum over the years !
OP, you can only submit the SD once the debt is registered at TEC, not before.
Thanks for confirming, much obliged :)
I've been chasing this with the TEC since last week and still nothing. I've completed my statutory declaration which I hope to get signed at the court this week. They keep telling me to contact the council when I eventually speak to the TEC but from what I see that's not the play at this stage
It's not unusual for councils to take time to register a debt, Havering included.
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It seems like an inefficient process where the fine has to be increased first before I can let them know I didn't receive the original PCN
Cumbersome, but on the other hand the reset to the original PCN and penalty is automatic as long as the process is followed correctly and no deadlines missed. Miss a deadline now and it becomes very messy and expensive.
Indeed it does, and we've seen them on this forum and on the now-closed Pepipoo forum over the years !
OP, you can only submit the SD once the debt is registered at TEC, not before.
Thanks for confirming, much obliged :)
I've been chasing this with the TEC since last week and still nothing. I've completed my statutory declaration which I hope to get signed at the court this week. They keep telling me to contact the council when I eventually speak to the TEC but from what I see that's not the play at this stage
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It seems like an inefficient process where the fine has to be increased first before I can let them know I didn't receive the original PCN
Cumbersome, but on the other hand the reset to the original PCN and penalty is automatic as long as the process is followed correctly and no deadlines missed. Miss a deadline now and it becomes very messy and expensive.
Indeed it does, and we've seen them on this forum and on the now-closed Pepipoo forum over the years !
OP, you can only submit the SD once the debt is registered at TEC, not before.
Thanks for confirming, much obliged :)
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It seems like an inefficient process where the fine has to be increased first before I can let them know I didn't receive the original PCN
Cumbersome, but on the other hand the reset to the original PCN and penalty is automatic as long as the process is followed correctly and no deadlines missed. Miss a deadline now and it becomes very messy and expensive.
Thank you for this, that's super helpful to know it's automatic. By the way, I didn't obscure the act on purpose, I'd (wrongly) assumed that part of the letter wasn't required when I took the pic. I know for next time now thanks again!
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It seems like an inefficient process where the fine has to be increased first before I can let them know I didn't receive the original PCN
Cumbersome, but on the other hand the reset to the original PCN and penalty is automatic as long as the process is followed correctly and no deadlines missed. Miss a deadline now and it becomes very messy and expensive.
Indeed it does, and we've seen them on this forum and on the now-closed Pepipoo forum over the years !
OP, you can only submit the SD once the debt is registered at TEC, not before.
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It seems like an inefficient process where the fine has to be increased first before I can let them know I didn't receive the original PCN
Cumbersome, but on the other hand the reset to the original PCN and penalty is automatic as long as the process is followed correctly and no deadlines missed. Miss a deadline now and it becomes very messy and expensive.
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+1
You will also find the FTLA in-house guide here:
https://www.ftla.uk/announcements/charge-certificates-london-local-authorities-and-tfl-act-2003-london-local-autho/msg37547/#new
You've obcsured the name of the Act -I think I've got the right guide. but if not, the other guides are here
https://www.ftla.uk/announcements/
Thank you for this and sharing the link to the guide. I think I understand what to do now. It seems like an inefficient process where the fine has to be increased first before I can let them know I didn't receive the original PCN
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I would be grateful on any advice on whether I can still appeal this? If not, given I didn't receive the initial letter how can I get the fine reduced so I can pay the lower amount as opposed to £195?
It's very simple, but from now on you must be proactive, because the next stage is the council must register the debt, (the £195) at the Traffic Enforcement Centre, (a form of court. but NOT a County Court as they say on the CC). This adds £10 onto the £195 giving £205. The council then send you an Order for Recovery for the amount. At this stage you can then submit a Statutory Declaration that you didn't receive the PCN. The matter is then reverted back to the PCN stage at which point you can pay it or submit representations.
You only have a fixed number of days to submit the SD, so it is important to now check, after the period for payment on the CC has expired, to contact the TEC at about weekly intervals to find out whether the debt has been registered. Alternatively, if Havering have a webpage that shows you the current stage of the PCN and the amount outstanding, when that amount shows as £205 you can submit an SD without needing to receive the paper Order for Recovery. You can download the SD form from this website: -
https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/traffic-enforcement-centre-forms
For a London moving traffic offence PCN, the form is PE3. Do note that you are not the "applicant", which is Havering Council; you are the Respondent.
Thanks for the response, this is really helpful. So I need to start chasing after the 14 days is up for the debt to be registered at the TEC. Then I can submit the SD and that's what can reset it to the initial time period?
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+1
You will also find the FTLA in-house guide here:
https://www.ftla.uk/announcements/charge-certificates-london-local-authorities-and-tfl-act-2003-london-local-autho/msg37547/#new
You've obscured the name of the Act -I think I've got the right guide. but if not, the other guides are here
https://www.ftla.uk/announcements/
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I would be grateful on any advice on whether I can still appeal this? If not, given I didn't receive the initial letter how can I get the fine reduced so I can pay the lower amount as opposed to £195?
It's very simple, but from now on you must be proactive, because the next stage is the council must register the debt, (the £195) at the Traffic Enforcement Centre, (a form of court. but NOT a County Court as they say on the CC). This adds £10 onto the £195 giving £205. The council then send you an Order for Recovery for the amount. At this stage you can then submit a Statutory Declaration that you didn't receive the PCN. The matter is then reverted back to the PCN stage at which point you can pay it or submit representations.
You only have a fixed number of days to submit the SD, so it is important to now check, after the period for payment on the CC has expired, to contact the TEC at about weekly intervals to find out whether the debt has been registered. Alternatively, if Havering have a webpage that shows you the current stage of the PCN and the amount outstanding, when that amount shows as £205 you can submit an SD without needing to receive the paper Order for Recovery. You can download the SD form from this website: -
https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/traffic-enforcement-centre-forms
For a London moving traffic offence PCN, the form is PE3. Do note that you are not the "applicant", which is Havering Council; you are the Respondent.
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I was surprised to receive a charge certificate from Havering council saying a PCN was issued and I failed to respond (I've checked my letters and can't find any PCN being received - I would have probably paid promptly). The letter says I didn't appeal and the fine has been raised to £195 from £130.
It doesn't specify the alleged contravention, but looking at the date and location, I was dropping off a friend at Romford train station after a wedding where they didn't have transport. I couldn't find a safe entry route where the google maps indicated was the location (bearing in mind this was a lone female in the dark) so I drove round to the front and stopped near the entrance to drop her off to the station. I don't recall seeing any signage preventing me from doing this so this has all come as a surprise (especially as the first notification I received of this was last weekend).
I would be grateful on any advice on whether I can still appeal this? If not, given I didn't receive the initial letter how can I get the fine reduced so I can pay the lower amount as opposed to £195?
Thank you in advance for your kind assistance.
(https://i.imgur.com/6cIo1OY.jpeg)