Free Traffic Legal Advice

Live cases legal advice => Private parking tickets => Topic started by: oshkosh on October 23, 2024, 11:37:02 am

Title: Re: Brent Cross Shopping Centre DYL - UKPC
Post by: b789 on September 02, 2025, 01:13:04 pm
Definitely lodge a formal complaint with SCMS. Their ‘mediator’ is not legally trained and should never offer an opinion on the validity of your defence.

The correct course of action was to offer £0 and that should be the end of the matter as far as SCMC is concerned. The mediation is not part of the judicial process.
Title: Re: Brent Cross Shopping Centre DYL - UKPC
Post by: DWMB2 on September 01, 2025, 04:45:40 pm
Unless the defendant would have prepared to pay UKPC £200, yes.
Title: Re: Brent Cross Shopping Centre DYL - UKPC
Post by: oshkosh on September 01, 2025, 04:36:31 pm
Was it the correct course of action to refuse the settlement, in this particular case?
Title: Re: Brent Cross Shopping Centre DYL - UKPC
Post by: DWMB2 on September 01, 2025, 04:31:35 pm
I was not aware that the SCMS advise parties what their chances of winning a case are.
They shouldn't, and the defendant should complain about this conduct.
Title: Re: Brent Cross Shopping Centre DYL - UKPC
Post by: oshkosh on September 01, 2025, 04:05:29 pm
Defendant received a call today from SCMS, having missed their initial appointment confirmation email and not realised who they were talking to. They thought it was the defendant's representative (DCB Legal).

The SMCS caller  was pushing for a reduced settlement of £200 in place of the £265 current owed amount. They also said that they could not see that the Defendant had any valid claim in Court and it would therefore be in their best interest to settle.  The D, not realising that they were speaking to the SCMS, refused the offer, and a subsequent "Mediation Not Settled" email arrived shortly after.

Was this the correct course of action? I was not aware that the SCMS advise parties what their chances of winning a case are.

Title: Re: Brent Cross Shopping Centre DYL - UKPC
Post by: b789 on July 12, 2025, 02:22:18 pm
Just download your own as instructed.
Title: Re: Brent Cross Shopping Centre DYL - UKPC
Post by: oshkosh on July 11, 2025, 03:07:19 pm

The claimant’s N180?

Looks like a court issued N180 for the Defendant
Title: Re: Brent Cross Shopping Centre DYL - UKPC
Post by: jfollows on July 11, 2025, 02:31:58 pm
Received form N180 today. Is this normal process?
They wish to allocate to Small Track.
The claimant’s N180?
In due course you need to file your own, ignore the paper version posted to you, instead
Quote
Having received your own N180 (make sure it is not simply a copy of the claimants N180), do not use the paper form. Ignore all the other forms that came with it. you can discard those. Download your own here and fill it in on your computer. You sign it by simply typing your full name in the signature box.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/673341e779e9143625613543/N180_1124.pdf

Here are the answers to some of the less obvious questions:

• The name of the court is "Civil National Business Centre".

• To be completed by "Your full name" and you are the "Defendant".

• C1: "YES"

• D1: "NO". Reason: "I wish to question the Claimant about their evidence at a hearing in person and to expose omissions and any misleading or incorrect evidence or assertions.
Given the Claimant is a firm who complete cut & paste parking case paperwork for a living, having this case heard solely on papers would appear to put the Claimant at an unfair advantage, especially as they would no doubt prefer the Defendant not to have the opportunity to expose the issues in the Claimants template submissions or speak as the only true witness to events in question.."

• F1: Whichever is your nearest county court. Use this to find it: https://www.find-court-tribunal.service.gov.uk/search-option

• F3: "1".

• Sign the form by simply typing your full name for the signature.

When you have completed the form, attach it to a single email addressed to both dq.cnbc@justice.gov.uk and info@dcblegal.co.uk and CC in yourself. Make sure that the claim number is in the subject field of the email.
Title: Re: Brent Cross Shopping Centre DYL - UKPC
Post by: oshkosh on July 11, 2025, 02:27:11 pm
Received form N180 today. Is this normal process?
They wish to allocate to Small Track.
Title: Re: Brent Cross Shopping Centre DYL - UKPC
Post by: b789 on May 13, 2025, 11:46:36 am
No. The CNBC will send a copy of your defence to the claimant. You will receive an acknowledgement that this has been done.
Title: Re: Brent Cross Shopping Centre DYL - UKPC
Post by: oshkosh on May 13, 2025, 10:42:27 am
Docs sent by email. Do I need to serve to the Claimant as well, or is that done automatically by the Court?
Title: Re: Brent Cross Shopping Centre DYL - UKPC
Post by: oshkosh on May 09, 2025, 01:25:19 pm
Got it ::) thanks
Title: Re: Brent Cross Shopping Centre DYL - UKPC
Post by: DWMB2 on May 09, 2025, 01:23:23 pm
I am assuming it was made in relation to a specific case.
You're hoping it'll be made in relation to your case. The draft is provided so that if the judge agrees with the proposal, he can just use that draft for this case.
Title: Re: Brent Cross Shopping Centre DYL - UKPC
Post by: oshkosh on May 09, 2025, 01:13:18 pm
Many thanks.

Maybe a daft question, but why does the draft order not have any case reference related to it? I am assuming it was made in relation to a specific case.
Title: Re: Brent Cross Shopping Centre DYL - UKPC
Post by: b789 on May 09, 2025, 01:02:14 pm
With an issue date of 7th May, you have until 4pm on Tuesday 27th May to submit your defence. If you submit an Acknowledgement of Service (AoS) before then, you would then have until 4pm on Monday 9th June to submit your defence.

If you want to submit an AoS then follow the instructions in this linked PDF:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/xvqu3bask5m0zir/money-claim-online-How-to-Acknowledge.pdf?dl=0

Otherwise, here is the defence and link to the draft order that goes with it. You only need to edit your name and the claim number. You sign the defence by typing your full name for the signature and date it. There is nothing to edit in the draft order.

When you're ready you combine both documents as a single PDF attachment and send as an attachment in an email to claimresponses.cnbc@justice.gov.uk and CC in yourself. The claim number must be in the email subject field and in the body of the email just put: "Please find attached the defence and draft order in the matter of UK Parking Control Ltd v [your full name] Claim no.: [claim number]."

Quote
IN THE COUNTY COURT
Claim No: [Claim Number]

BETWEEN:

UK Parking Control Ltd

Claimant

- and -

[Defendant's Full Name]


Defendant



DEFENCE

1. The Defendant denies the claim in its entirety. The Defendant asserts that there is no liability to the Claimant and that no debt is owed. The claim is without merit and does not adequately disclose any comprehensible cause of action.

2. There is a lack of precise detail in the Particulars of Claim (PoC) in respect of the factual and legal allegations made against the Defendant such that the PoC do not comply with CPR 16.4.

3. The Defendant is unable to plead properly to the PoC because:

(a) The contract referred to is not detailed or attached to the PoC in accordance with CPR PD 16(7.5);

(b) The PoC do not state the exact wording of the clause (or clauses) of the terms and conditions of the contract (or contracts) which is/are relied on;

(c) The PoC do not adequately set out the reason (or reasons) why the claimant asserts the defendant has breached the contract (or contracts)

(d) The PoC do not state with sufficient particularity exactly where the breach occurred, the exact time when the breach occurred and how long it is alleged that the vehicle was parked before the parking charge was allegedly incurred;

(e) The PoC do not state precisely how the sum claimed is calculated, including the basis for any statutory interest, damages, or other charges;

(f) The PoC do not state what proportion of the claim is the parking charge and what proportion is damages;

(g) The PoC do not provide clarity on whether the Defendant is sued as the driver or the keeper of the vehicle, as the claimant cannot plead alternative causes of action without specificity.

4. The Defendant attaches to this defence a copy of a draft order approved by a district judge at another court. The court struck out the claim of its own initiative after determining that the Particulars of Claim failed to comply with CPR 16.4. The judge noted that the claimant had failed to:

(i) Set out the exact wording of the clause (or clauses) of the terms and conditions relied upon;

(ii) Adequately explain the reasons why the defendant was allegedly in breach of contract;

(iii) Provide separate, detailed Particulars of Claim as permitted under CPR PD 7C.5.2(2).

(iv) The court further observed that, given the modest sum claimed, requiring further case management steps would be disproportionate and contrary to the overriding objective. Accordingly, the judge struck out the claim outright rather than permitting an amendment.

5. The Defendant submits that the same reasoning applies in this case and invites the court to adopt a similar approach by striking out the claim for the Claimant’s failure to comply with CPR 16.4.

Statement of truth

I believe that the facts stated in this Defence are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.

Signed:


Date:

Draft Order for the defence (https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/tcewefk7daozuje25chkl/Strikeout-order-v2.pdf?rlkey=wxnymo8mwcma2jj8xihjm7pdx&st=nbtf0cn6&dl=0)
Title: Re: Brent Cross Shopping Centre DYL - UKPC
Post by: oshkosh on May 09, 2025, 12:35:39 pm
(https://i.ibb.co/zTmQPkpR/Whats-App-Image-2025-05-09-at-12-15-39-71c59c2a.jpg) (https://ibb.co/zTmQPkpR)
Title: Re: Brent Cross Shopping Centre DYL - UKPC
Post by: b789 on May 09, 2025, 12:30:56 pm
Just post the actual Claim Form with the Particulars of Claim (PoC). Only redact your personal data, the claim number and the MCOL password. Leave everything else visible, especially all dates.
Title: Re: Brent Cross Shopping Centre DYL - UKPC
Post by: oshkosh on May 09, 2025, 12:19:18 pm
A money claim was received today from DCB Legal / UK Parking Control. Do I need to post this up here? What is the next course of action please?
Title: Re: Brent Cross Shopping Centre DYL - UKPC
Post by: oshkosh on March 04, 2025, 12:48:26 pm
Thank you - will keep you posted.
Title: Re: Brent Cross Shopping Centre DYL - UKPC
Post by: DWMB2 on March 04, 2025, 12:43:15 pm
You are waiting for this to eventually turn into a claim - when it does, you will receive a Claim Form from the Civil National Business Centre, which you should share here.

In the meantime, here's an example of how you can respond to the Letter of Claim, courtesy of b789. Amend any case specific details such as dates as necessary.

Respond as follows:

Quote
DCB Legal
Direct House
Greenwood Drive
Manor Park
Runcorn
Cheshire
WA7 1UG

By email to: info@dcblegal.co.uk

[Date]

Dear Sirs,

Re: Letter of Claim dated 20th February 2025

I refer to your Letter of Claim.

I confirm that my address for service at this time is as follows, and I request that any outdated address be erased from your records to ensure compliance with data protection obligations:

[YOUR ADDRESS]

Please note that the alleged debt is disputed, and any court proceedings will be robustly defended.

I note that the sum claimed has been increased by an excessive and unjustifiable amount, which appears contrary to the principles established by the Government, who described such practices as “extorting money from motorists.” Please refrain from sending boilerplate responses or justifications regarding this issue.

Under the Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims, I require specific answers to the following questions:

1. Does the additional £70 represent what you describe as a “Debt Recovery” fee? If so, is this figure net of or inclusive of VAT? If inclusive, I trust you will explain why I, as the alleged debtor, am being asked to cover your client’s VAT liability.

2. Regarding the principal sum of the alleged Parking Charge Notice (PCN): Is this being claimed as damages for breach of contract, or will it be pleaded as consideration for a purported parking contract?

I would caution you against simply dismissing these questions with vague or boilerplate responses, as I am fully aware of the implications. By claiming that PCNs are exempt from VAT while simultaneously inflating the debt recovery element, your client – with your assistance – appears to be evading VAT obligations due to HMRC. Such mendacious conduct raises serious questions about the legality and ethics of your practices.

I strongly advise your client to cease and desist. Should this matter proceed to court, you can be assured that these issues will be brought to the court’s attention, alongside a robust defence and potentially a counterclaim for unreasonable conduct.

Yours faithfully,


[YOUR NAME]

Save as a PDF file and attach to an email addressed to info@dcblegal.co.uk and also CC in yourself.
Title: Re: Brent Cross Shopping Centre DYL - UKPC
Post by: oshkosh on March 04, 2025, 11:59:06 am
(https://i.ibb.co/FkxYqnZ0/Whats-App-Image-2025-03-03-at-08-44-44-b61faa18.jpg) (https://ibb.co/FkxYqnZ0)
(https://i.ibb.co/0pzKbmtf/Whats-App-Image-2025-03-03-at-08-44-45-45e8fb53.jpg) (https://ibb.co/0pzKbmtf)
Title: Re: Brent Cross Shopping Centre DYL - UKPC
Post by: DWMB2 on March 04, 2025, 11:50:52 am
It would be useful to see it.
Title: Re: Brent Cross Shopping Centre DYL - UKPC
Post by: oshkosh on March 03, 2025, 11:07:18 am
UPDATE: Letter of Claim received from DCB Legal. Do you need me to post it here? If not, please advise what my next action should be?
Thank you
Title: Re: Brent Cross Shopping Centre DYL - UKPC
Post by: b789 on October 29, 2024, 11:48:57 am
It really doesn't matter. No appeal will be accepted. Only a county court claim that is defended will result in this eventually being discontinued. Their modus operandi is to escalate with threats of litigation in the hope that the defendant is low-hanging fruit on the gullible tree and will cave in once the (imagined) pressure increases.

By the time it comes to them having to pay the trial fee, if the defendant hasn't caved, they will discontinue and move on in search of even lower hanging fruit.
Title: Re: Brent Cross Shopping Centre DYL - UKPC
Post by: oshkosh on October 29, 2024, 11:45:21 am
Thanks.

Driver parked there due to a large part of the car park coned off and very limited parking available at the time.
Title: Re: Brent Cross Shopping Centre DYL - UKPC
Post by: b789 on October 29, 2024, 11:42:11 am
They have until 18th November to appeal. What was the reason the driver decided to park at that spot?

Any appeal for this PCN is going to be rejected by both UKPC and POPLA. No one pays these though.

After a flurry of debt collector letters which we don't need to know about and can be safely ignored, a Letter of Claim (LoC) will be sent. Come back when that happens and we will provide the necessary response. Eventually a claim will be issued and we will provide the defence.

It is with over 99% certainty that this would eventually be discontinued early next year.
Title: Re: Brent Cross Shopping Centre DYL - UKPC
Post by: oshkosh on October 29, 2024, 11:25:06 am
It would seem.

Is there a point in appealing at this stage or wait for next correspondence from them?
Title: Re: Brent Cross Shopping Centre DYL - UKPC
Post by: b789 on October 29, 2024, 11:20:56 am
So they only have evidence of the vehicle being stopped for 14 seconds.
Title: Re: Brent Cross Shopping Centre DYL - UKPC
Post by: oshkosh on October 29, 2024, 11:11:14 am
Apologies, I didn't understand what you were referring to.

(https://i.ibb.co/ZN3NyQ6/download-1.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/W5tSDQV/download.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/BGDzfgb/download-4.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/5GGg2rg/download-3.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/nLVScJp/download-2.jpg)
Title: Re: Brent Cross Shopping Centre DYL - UKPC
Post by: b789 on October 29, 2024, 10:53:12 am
It's pretty obvious that the evidential photo was taken by a human. However, you have still not answered the question about any other evidential photos they may have on their website.

It would be useful to know the exact timespan between all the photos they have.
Title: Re: Brent Cross Shopping Centre DYL - UKPC
Post by: oshkosh on October 29, 2024, 10:17:33 am
See below location images. I was not able to see a CCTV camera that would have been able to take the images at that angle so can only surmise that it was done by a human.

There is only one sign in that car park pertaining to DYL, and as outlined in blue in the images, it is nowhere near where the vehicle was parked (marked in red), and it is possible to reach the location where the vehicle was left without even passing that sign.

(https://i.ibb.co/H78jJJ4/IMG-20241029-WA0006.jpg)

(https://i.ibb.co/TmKdJR9/IMG-20241029-WA0005.jpg)

(https://i.ibb.co/yydLbhG/IMG-20241029-WA0007.jpg)
Title: Re: Brent Cross Shopping Centre DYL - UKPC
Post by: oshkosh on October 26, 2024, 10:22:46 pm
The ticket was issued via CCTV and the post. Vehicle was left at 13:12, the time stated on the fine.
Hopefully will post images tomorrow.
Title: Re: Brent Cross Shopping Centre DYL - UKPC
Post by: b789 on October 23, 2024, 12:24:36 pm
Any evidential photos they have should be checked. It would help to know the period over which the vehicle was observed.
Title: Re: Brent Cross Shopping Centre DYL - UKPC
Post by: oshkosh on October 23, 2024, 12:06:22 pm
Thanks for your responses. Friend is not tech savvy, so probably not ideal for them to post. I am in good communication with them.

Additional context: In their own words "I nipped in for two minutes and came out to find a ticket".

Will get some images of site later today.
Title: Re: Brent Cross Shopping Centre DYL - UKPC
Post by: b789 on October 23, 2024, 11:57:53 am
Get some photos of the signs and the general layout of the signs at the location.
Title: Re: Brent Cross Shopping Centre DYL - UKPC
Post by: DWMB2 on October 23, 2024, 11:48:43 am
Some additional context would be useful: READ THIS FIRST - Private Parking Charges Forum guide (https://www.ftla.uk/private-parking-tickets/read-this-first-private-parking-charges-forum-guide/)

If your friend is up for a fight, then UKPC can usually be beaten - they use DCB Legal whose mode of operation is to issue court claims, then discontinue at the last minute if the case is properly defended. We can help with that if they're up for the effort.

Is it possible for your friend to post directly? Posting for a friend is always well-meaning, but there's the possibility of communication going awry.
Title: Re: Brent Cross Shopping Centre DYL - UKPC
Post by: DWMB2 on October 23, 2024, 11:46:45 am
(https://i.ibb.co/dBmp6fW/Whats-App-Image-2024-10-23-at-07-42-08-ce08e9e6.jpg) (https://ibb.co/p2hKZ10)
(https://i.ibb.co/n6fsZHQ/Whats-App-Image-2024-10-23-at-07-42-09-503e2823.jpg) (https://ibb.co/xXGSPpz)
Title: Brent Cross Shopping Centre DYL - UKPC
Post by: oshkosh on October 23, 2024, 11:37:02 am
Posting this for a friend

Any recourse for appeal?

https://ibb.co/p2hKZ10
https://ibb.co/xXGSPpz

(https://www.ftla.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F%5Burl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fibb.co%2Fp2hKZ10%5D%5Bimg%5Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fi.ibb.co%2Fp2hKZ10%2FWhats-App-Image-2024-10-23-at-07-42-08-ce08e9e6.jpg&hash=f2485d13e8fd8c59f676f86c6403c94e16a88229)

(https://www.ftla.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F%5Burl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fibb.co%2FxXGSPpz%5D%5Bimg%5Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fi.ibb.co%2FxXGSPpz%2FWhats-App-Image-2024-10-23-at-07-42-09-503e2823.jpg&hash=cb0c86811036e1d24b726ff254e5de88c5bf8a42)