Free Traffic Legal Advice

Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: joe-01 on October 19, 2024, 12:53:12 pm

Title: Re: 33J Hillingdon Bus Route (10-2024 edition)
Post by: Hippocrates on October 26, 2024, 11:09:00 am
This may be won on their website:

33J - Using a route restricted to certain vehicles (camera enforcement)

We will consider your appeal according to our appeals policy. If your reason for appeal is not listed in the policy, we are unlikely to accept it. However we will still consider your case individually.


Moving Traffic reasons
The following reasons relate to moving traffic contraventions

Select a reason:
 I have already paid the PCN 
 I was not at the location on the day 
 I was not the driver 
 I was not the owner / keeper of the vehicle 
 My vehicle had broken down 
 My vehicle was cloned 
 My vehicle was stolen 
 The vehicle was on hire to someone else 
None of the above
If none of the above reasons apply, and you wish to challenge your PCN, please select below:

Select a reason:
 Any other reason 


***

This is rubbish and if you type in the statutory grounds such as penalty exceeded the amount, it comes up with similar rubbish.

I would not mention it yet! But, if this goes to the Tribunal, I am happy to assist.
Title: Re: 33J Hillingdon Bus Route (10-2024 edition)
Post by: Incandescent on October 25, 2024, 06:08:44 pm
It is valid grounds, but whether the sign is misleading or not is subjective so an adjudicator could decide either way, but if combined with figures showing the number of PCNs issued at this location, it might swing it.
Title: Re: 33J Hillingdon Bus Route (10-2024 edition)
Post by: joe-01 on October 25, 2024, 01:48:37 pm
The advance warning sign is not a traffic sign and most motorists would not notice it. It is yet another example of council stupidity. What is required is a sign showing the layout ahead, with the bus lane sign shown on it for the second exit of the mini-roundabout, to indicate the motorist must drive right, (3rd exit), or left, (1st exit) but not straight ahead, (2nd exit). Pretty simple, one would think, but of course if they did this the PCN cash flow would cease.

Would this be valid grounds to appeal this PCN?
Title: Re: 33J Hillingdon Bus Route (10-2024 edition)
Post by: Incandescent on October 24, 2024, 06:48:04 pm
The advance warning sign is not a traffic sign and most motorists would not notice it. It is yet another example of council stupidity. What is required is a sign showing the layout ahead, with the bus lane sign shown on it for the second exit of the mini-roundabout, to indicate the motorist must drive right, (3rd exit), or left, (1st exit) but not straight ahead, (2nd exit). Pretty simple, one would think, but of course if they did this the PCN cash flow would cease.
Title: Re: 33J Hillingdon Bus Route (10-2024 edition)
Post by: joe-01 on October 24, 2024, 04:40:06 pm
It would appear this road was making the news already 6 years ago for the very same reasons

https://www.pressreader.com/uk/uxbridge-gazette/20180704/281569471477279 (https://www.pressreader.com/uk/uxbridge-gazette/20180704/281569471477279)
Title: Re: 33J Hillingdon Bus Route (10-2024 edition)
Post by: dave-o on October 24, 2024, 12:09:26 pm
I can easily snap some pictures in this area if need be.
Title: Re: 33J Hillingdon Bus Route (10-2024 edition)
Post by: joe-01 on October 23, 2024, 06:54:22 pm
Yes, I believe I must have passed that advance warning sign
Title: Re: 33J Hillingdon Bus Route (10-2024 edition)
Post by: John U.K. on October 23, 2024, 06:16:13 pm
So you passed this advance warning sign on the left here?
https://maps.app.goo.gl/2tvnqMfUo5jc9GG7A
Title: Re: 33J Hillingdon Bus Route (10-2024 edition)
Post by: joe-01 on October 23, 2024, 04:48:06 pm
Much better  :)  - now the experts here can put a fine toothcomb throuigh the 'small print'.
Is this where you entered the 'bus lane?
https://maps.app.goo.gl/KAVr3iHf91Uwr41N8

If so, from which direction did you come?

Yes, that is precisely where I entered the bus lane.
I entered Vine St right after Cross St turned into Hillingdon Rd

https://maps.app.goo.gl/xmKwZAtjtbexZ7zy6

https://maps.app.goo.gl/z7wrcx3f5n9Hin8V8
Title: Re: 33J Hillingdon Bus Route (10-2024 edition)
Post by: John U.K. on October 23, 2024, 04:31:04 pm
Much better  :)  - now the experts here can put a fine toothcomb throuigh the 'small print'.
Is this where you entered the 'bus lane?
https://maps.app.goo.gl/KAVr3iHf91Uwr41N8

If so, from which direction did you come?
Title: Re: 33J Hillingdon Bus Route (10-2024 edition)
Post by: joe-01 on October 23, 2024, 04:16:25 pm
Hi John, thank you for your feedback.
Please find below the better version of the PCN (all pages attached)

(https://i.imgur.com/syMogjK.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Nr3GQFQ.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/I6jOedR.jpeg)
Title: Re: 33J Hillingdon Bus Route (10-2024 edition)
Post by: John U.K. on October 23, 2024, 03:21:17 pm
For meaningful advice, please re-post the PCN with all the missing details re-instated (except for yr name & address) and all the remaining pages and a GSV link to the location.

See also
https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/
Title: Re: 33J Hillingdon Bus Route (10-2024 edition)
Post by: joe-01 on October 23, 2024, 02:49:02 pm
--- deleted in favour of the pictures below ---
Title: 33J Hillingdon Bus Route (10-2024 edition)
Post by: joe-01 on October 19, 2024, 12:53:12 pm
Hi all,

I found myself the recipient of the following PCN for accidentally ending up on a restricted bus route (my fault for being too trusty of the sat nav, but alas…!)

A similar case was debated last year in the following post
33J Hillingdon Bus Route (https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/33j-hillingdon-bus-route/msg6380/#msg6380)

However, I noticed that the wording has been amended since  —  more specifically, they now state this PCN

Quote
must be paid within the period of 28 days beginning with the date on which the penalty charge notice is served on this notice

Could anyone be so kind as to advise which grounds it would be best to challenge this PCN on?



Please find at the link below pictures of the full PCN, identifying details redacted


https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1UO7ISQw9ezboWSOiGjWdXz0k7zTt28Vm?usp=sharing (https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1UO7ISQw9ezboWSOiGjWdXz0k7zTt28Vm?usp=sharing)