Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: unspeedymotorist on October 17, 2024, 12:09:15 pm
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Update-
TLDR - Brent cancelled the PCN
This PCN reached the bailiff stage because I failed to respond to the charge certificate. Once the bailiffs reached out to me, I emailed them back CC'd a few contacts at Brent informing them of where I stand legally. I also filed a complaint with Brent on the basis that the PCN had been cancelled.
I used chat GPT's deep research tool to gather my rights and then turn it into an email. It worked. Thanks to those who assisted in the chat.
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Both reasons are true. I can't remember whether I believed the permit would auto-renew or if I got the months mixed up but either way it wasn't paid and came as a shock to me. Wasn't intentional! The private parking was being used even when the permit was valid. However, when the PCN was given, it just made more sense to primarily use the private parking
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I think it will be easier to give advice if we have a consistent account.
Bit confused with the notice of rejection that has been received. In short, the car was parked in a residents parking bay without a permit/expired permit due to forgetting to renew.
Which surely implies an intention to renew. However, 'The permit expired 8/3/24. It was not renewed because there was new off-street private parking for residents.' implies that the keeper had no such intention.
Let permit lapse because alternative off-street parking was available but parked on-street and got caught?? Perhaps car was parked by someone who wasn't in the 'know'? Contravention doesn't require a permit as such, if the bay was shared use then payment could have been made. Was it shared use at the time?
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You cannot challenge (submit represenations) a Charge Certificate. You would need to wait for the next stage which is court registration which will add £10. Then you can submit a Witness Statement that you did not receive a Notice to Owner.
This will get the matter reset to the NTO stage from where you can challenge and appeal in the normal manner. The NTO won't have the discount option as that lapsed with the on-street PCN represenation and rejection so you'll be in for £130. They might re-offer the discount if you subit representations against the NTO but they don't have to.
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I'm thinking to send another email to Brent highlighting the possible error that they haven't acknowledged. I doubt they'll respond within the next 7 days (discounted rate expires after this).
Does anyone know what phase the PCN will be in if I don't pay the discounted rate? Would they send another charge certificate?
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The permit expired 8/3/24. It was not renewed because there was new off-street private parking for residents.
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In regards to the permit, I believe it expired sometime between the 6th to 12th March 2024, so around a month before I got the PCN.
..surely there's a precise date??
And when was it renewed and was this backdated?
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As I said this looks like a rogue bit from an acceptance template left in by accident in the rejection.
You could fight this through the process as you didn't get an NTO but I'm not sure it's worth it as it means keeping on top of more documents. Paying £65 makes it go away and your permit was beyond what is reasonable for a lower level penalty and also it looks like they didn't ticket you for a few weeks.
You could go back to them now highlighting the acceptance and say you expect the PCN and £65 to be cancelled. This is their mistake after all.
(https://i.imgur.com/SmgjI07.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/2Fb9FOk.jpeg)
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It can be found in the link below under "Reply from council"
https://drive.google.com/drive/u/0/folders/1My7X4IeIGtrm6VlIoU9m2zk610vQrPOi
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Please let's see the 10/10/2024 "reply from Brent".
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Had a good look for the notice to owner and I can confirm I did not receive one. I'd remember if I did.
Also can confirm that the charge cert is for the same 'cancelled' PCN.
In regards to the permit, I believe it expired sometime between the 6th to 12th March 2024, so around a month before I got the PCN.
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There timeline says they issued an NTO. Any issues with post? Is the address correct on the charge certificate?
Looks like they left a rogue bit of template in your rejection letter.
When did the permit expire?
(https://i.imgur.com/zkE5hWP.png)
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Things might change when we see the original docs. However right now it appears that your informal reps were accepted and the PCN cancelled. So there would have been no Notice to Owner.
Leaves the Charge Certificate unexplained. Are you 100% certain the CC relates to the cancelled PCN? Perhaps it concerns a second as yet unknown PCN.
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Please view all communication with council on this link (https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1My7X4IeIGtrm6VlIoU9m2zk610vQrPOi?usp=sharing)
9/4/24 - PCN was given
22/4/24 - Informal challenge made
11/6/24 - Notice of rejection received via email - which was ignored
20/8/24 - Charge certification was received - also ignored
21/8/24 - Email was sent to Brent regarding charge cert/notice of rejection
10/10/24 - Received a reply from Brent
I don't recall receiving a notice to owner
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Hi, what information should I cover in the documents?
Only name and address.
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Hi, what information should I cover in the documents?
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The reply is to an informal challenge whereas a pre-condition of issuing a Charge Certificate is that a Notice to Owner has been served on the registered keeper. You've missed this stage in your post.
If you are the keeper and if you received a NTO which you then ignored because you thought that this must have been a mistake on their part then you've stepped outside procedure, hence the CC.
But IMO the situation could still be recoverable, but first we need more facts.
Are you the keeper and are your DVLA registered keeper details current*; did you receive a NTO, and if so what did you do?
*- you should be otherwise you couldn't have a CC in your name.....unless the car is leased/hired.
But you'll tell us...
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https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/
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Post a timeline of all events/documents/phone calls etc
Post the documents not transcripts.
Did you get a notice to owner?
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Bit confused with the notice of rejection that has been received. In short, the car was parked in a residents parking bay without a permit/expired permit due to forgetting to renew. An appeal was made, and it appears as though the appeal was rejected, however, if you read the last couple of lines they say they "exercised discretion and decided to cancel the PCN".
The letter is attached below
A charge certificate was received, however the council have reset the PCN to £65 to be paid within two weeks or they will take this to court.
How should this be approached?
NOTICE OF REJECTION OF INFORMAL CHALLENGE
I write with reference to your recent correspondence received in connection with the above Penalty
Charge Notice (PCN).
Your informal challenge has been considered by this office in accordance with the requirements of the
Traffic Management Act 2004. After a careful consideration of the grounds you have made and all
other related circumstances, the decision has been made not to cancel your PCN.
The reason for the rejection may be summarised as follows:
The PCN was issued as the vehicle was observed Parked in a residents' or shared use parking place
or zone without a valid virtual permit or clearly displaying a valid physical permit or voucher or pay
and display ticket issued for that place where required, or without payment of the parking charge.
The permit in respect of the vehicle had expired at the time of the contravention. One of the terms and
conditions of use of the permit is that it is the responsibility of the permit holder to renew the permit on
time. Renewal reminders are sent as a courtesy and are not a legal requirement. The permit holder
remains responsible, regardless of whether they have or have not received a renewal reminder.
Please refer to brent.gov.uk/parking for further information.
Your points are noted, but it is the driver responsibility is to ensure the vehicle is correctly parked at all
times.
Due consideration has been given to the information provided, however, Brent Council is satisfied that
the contravention occurred in this case. The Council has, however, exercised discretion and decided
to cancel the above PCN.