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Live cases legal advice => Private parking tickets => Topic started by: settop23 on October 16, 2024, 12:59:42 pm

Title: Re: Letter before claim from DCB legal
Post by: DWMB2 on January 06, 2025, 08:10:28 am
I had a question about the draft order, it says in the defence 'The Defendant has attached to this defence a copy of an order made at another court'.  What is the meaning of this?
That is referring to the second document b789 provided in his previous reply, titled 'Short defence draft order', which should be attached alongside the defence.


Short defence draft order (https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/z8zcqfdncdoajgj4ag6a4/short-defence-order.pdf?rlkey=at98xmfwj0ehi3w9d0ia15ogp&st=g3cofje9&dl=0)
Title: Re: Letter before claim from DCB legal
Post by: settop23 on January 06, 2025, 12:34:47 am
Thank you - I have submitted the defence.

I had a question about the draft order, it says in the defence 'The Defendant has attached to this defence a copy of an order made at another court'.  What is the meaning of this?
Title: Re: Letter before claim from DCB legal
Post by: b789 on January 04, 2025, 10:39:17 am
Use the defence below. You only need to edit your full name and the claim number. You sign the defence by typing your full name for the signature and then date it. There is nothing to edit in the draft order. When yo've done that, you save the documents as PSF files and attach them to an email addressed to claimresponses.cnbc@justice.gov.uk and also CC in yourself.

Quote
IN THE COUNTY COURT
Claim No: [Claim Number]

BETWEEN:

Civil Enforcement Ltd

Claimant

- and -

[Defendant's Full Name]


Defendant



DEFENCE


1. The Defendant denies any liability for this claim.

2. There is a lack of precise detail in the Particulars of Claim (PoC) in respect of the factual and legal allegations made against the Defendant such that the PoC do not comply with CPR 16.4.

3. The Defendant is unable to plead properly to the PoC because:

(a) The contract referred to is not detailed or attached to the PoC in accordance with CPR PD 16(7.5);

(b) The PoC do not state the exact wording of the clause (or clauses) of the terms and conditions of the contract (or contracts) which is/are relied on;

(c) The PoC do not state with sufficient particularity the exact time when the breaches occurred and how long it is alleged that the vehicle was parked before the parking charges were allegedly incurred;

(e) The PoC do not state exactly how the claim for statutory interest is calculated;

(f) The PoC do not state what proportion of the claim are the parking charges and what proportion is damages;

(g) The PoC states that the Claimant is suing the defendant as the driver or the keeper. The claimant obviously knows whether the defendant is being sued as the driver or the keeper and should not be permitted to plead alternative causes of action.

4. The Defendant has attached to this defence a copy of an order made at another court which the allocating judge ought to make at this stage so that the Defendant can then know and understand the case which he/she/it faces and can then respond properly to the claim.

Statement of truth

I believe that the facts stated in this Defence are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.

Signed:


Date:

Short defence draft order (https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/z8zcqfdncdoajgj4ag6a4/short-defence-order.pdf?rlkey=at98xmfwj0ehi3w9d0ia15ogp&st=g3cofje9&dl=0)
Title: Re: Letter before claim from DCB legal
Post by: settop23 on January 03, 2025, 11:48:51 pm
Thank you very much, I look forward to receiving it
Title: Re: Letter before claim from DCB legal
Post by: b789 on January 03, 2025, 05:46:12 pm
With an issue date of 10th December and having submitted your AoS on 22nd December, you have until 4pm on Monday 13th January to file your defence.

I’m in transit back to UK at the moment. Will provide a defence over the weekend.
Title: Re: Letter before claim from DCB legal
Post by: settop23 on January 03, 2025, 01:41:14 pm
Hello

The issue date is 10 December on the claim form. I have attached the claim form

Thanks

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Letter before claim from DCB legal
Post by: b789 on January 03, 2025, 11:46:28 am
It's the issue date on the front of the form that we need to know, not the actual date you received it.

What is the issue date?
Title: Re: Letter before claim from DCB legal
Post by: settop23 on January 03, 2025, 07:10:53 am
Hello,

i received a claim form on 10 December. Apologies I have been so busy that I only saw the claim form a day or two before Christmas. I have done the AoS on 22 December and I think I need to submit my defence very soon?

I will post the PoC in a few hours. I haven’t been able to go to the location in question to check the signage but I can do that this week. Please could you advise when I need to file a defence by
Title: Re: Letter before claim from DCB legal
Post by: b789 on December 02, 2024, 10:00:02 am
I did receieve some letters before this but have not responded to any as I am only the RK of the vehicle and did not know anything about it.

 I will see if i can get a photo of the signage where i parked this week and post back if they send any further communcations


??

Irrelevant to the case.
Title: Re: Letter before claim from DCB legal
Post by: H C Andersen on December 02, 2024, 08:53:08 am
I did receieve some letters before this but have not responded to any as I am only the RK of the vehicle and did not know anything about it.

 I will see if i can get a photo of the signage where i parked this week and post back if they send any further communcations


??
Title: Re: Letter before claim from DCB legal
Post by: settop23 on December 02, 2024, 12:16:18 am

Yes a very vague and unhelpful response from them.  I will see if i can get a photo of the signage where i parked this week and post back if they send any further communcations
Title: Re: Letter before claim from DCB legal
Post by: b789 on November 25, 2024, 11:33:07 am
All boilerplate stuff. Where did this alleged contravention take place? The name of the car park?

Can you get a clear phot of the signs with the terms at the location? They are claiming that the signs included mention of the £70 fee. We know it is a lie that it cost them £70 to engage a debt collector when they in fact operate on a no-win, no-fee basis. The governments own analysis of their costs in the Impact Statement issued earlier this year show that on average, it costs the PPCs less than £9 per claim (not per PCN) in recovery costs.

Anyway, a phot of the signs would help if possible.

With regards to their mendacious statement about VAT, you should report them to HMRC for suspected VAT fraud. There is no comeback and it takes literally minutes to do so online here:

https://www.gov.uk/report-tax-fraud

Whilst the PCN is non-VATable, any debt recovery fee is definitely liable to VAT and they have not answered the second question asked in your response to their LoC.

You can tell that you are dealing with intellectually malnourished individuals by this little bit in their response:

Quote
Had you of paid...

You are now waiting for the N1SDT claim form to arrive from the CNBC. When it does, show us the Particulars of Claim (PoC) and the issue date and we will provide guidance on the next step which will be the Acknowledgement of Service (AoS) and any deadlines.
Title: Re: Letter before claim from DCB legal
Post by: settop23 on November 25, 2024, 10:40:37 am
This is the response to the email I sent to DCB Legal :

 The parking charge was been issued as per the Contract. A charge of £70.00 has been added to the sum as per the contractual costs outlined on the signs, as our Client has had to go to the expense of instructing debt collection agencies to recover the debt. Had you of paid as per the Contract, there would have been no need for recovery action so the amount due would not have increased. 

 

Please note, the HMRC ‘VAT Supply and Consideration manual’ (VATSC06140), which was last updated on 02 September 2020, confirmed that Parking Charge Notices fall out of the scope of VAT.

 

You now have 30 days from the date of this email to make payment of £510.00. Failure to make payment may result in a Claim being issued against you without any further reference.

Payment can be made via bank transfer to our designated client account: -

 

You must quote the correct case reference (--) when making payment. If you do not, we may be unable to correctly allocate the payment. If further action is taken by us as a result of an incorrect reference being quoted, you will be liable for any further fees or costs incurred.
Title: Re: Letter before claim from DCB legal
Post by: settop23 on October 23, 2024, 03:11:27 pm
Hi, I see thank you for the information. I was quite confused as to whether the letter from DCB legal was an official letter before claim or not, but I will wait to see if and when they reply to the letter
Title: Re: Letter before claim from DCB legal
Post by: b789 on October 23, 2024, 07:02:51 am
There is nothing to “acknowledge” service of. When you receive an N1SDT Claim Form from the CNBC, you will acknowledge service of that.

There’s no rush. You have 19 days from the “issue” date of the claim to acknowledge service. By acknowledging service, you then have 33 days from the “issue” date of the claim to submit your defence.

Before any claim is issued, DCB Legal have to respond to your letter that you have just sent as it has some questions that require answering.
Title: Re: Letter before claim from DCB legal
Post by: settop23 on October 23, 2024, 12:23:41 am
Hi

I have sent the letter across as a PDF attachment to their email address today. Am I right in assuming I do not need to submit an acknowledgement of service at this stage?

Title: Re: Letter before claim from DCB legal
Post by: settop23 on October 16, 2024, 03:35:04 pm
Great, I will do that for now  :)
Title: Re: Letter before claim from DCB legal
Post by: b789 on October 16, 2024, 03:22:21 pm
Neither. Never use signed for. If no one signs for it ally you have is proof of non-delivery. If ever you have to send something by snail mail, use a free proof of posting certificate from any post office.

For everything from now on regarding this case, you will do online, either through a web portal or as an attachment to an email.

You respond to the LoC by sending your response as a PDF attachment in an email to info@dcblegal.co.uk and CC in yourself too.
Title: Re: Letter before claim from DCB legal
Post by: settop23 on October 16, 2024, 03:05:32 pm
Thank you, I will reply to this via post. Is it worth sending it signed for or tracked or is a standard letter okay? What about email
Title: Re: Letter before claim from DCB legal
Post by: b789 on October 16, 2024, 02:19:33 pm
No change suggested to the response letter.
Title: Re: Letter before claim from DCB legal
Post by: settop23 on October 16, 2024, 02:16:31 pm
 

Please find attached the letter before claim - many thanks for the replies
Title: Re: Letter before claim from DCB legal
Post by: DWMB2 on October 16, 2024, 02:02:08 pm
I would suggest showing us the letter before sending anything - these things are all boilerplate, but it's always sensible to make sure there isn't anything unexpected on there, odd things do happen.
Title: Re: Letter before claim from DCB legal
Post by: b789 on October 16, 2024, 01:43:44 pm
Who is the claimant? Simply respond wit the following:

Quote
Dear Sirs,

Your Ref. ############
DCB Legal Ltd.
Claimant: [claimant name]

I refer to your your letter of claim.

I confirm that my address for service for the time being - assuming you don't faff about and delay any claim - is as follows, and any older address must be erased from your records:
[MY CURRENT ADDRESS]

The alleged debt is disputed and any court proceedings will be vigorously defended.

I do not recognise the location of the alleged contractual breaches (all in the same location) and am unsure who was driving except to know that it was not myself, the Registered Keeper.

I note that the amount being claimed appears to be a hugely exaggerated amount which the Government called "extorting money from motorists". Don't send me your usual blather about that.

I have two questions, and under the PAP I am entitled to specific answers:

1. Am I to understand that the additional £70 per PCN represents what you lot dress up as a 'Debt Recovery' fee, and if so, is this nett or inclusive of VAT? If the latter, would you kindly explain why I am being asked to pay the operator’s VAT?

2. With regard to the principal alleged PCN sum: Is this damages, or will it be pleaded as consideration for parking?

I await your answers to the questions as you are obligated to respond to according to the PAP.

Yours faithfully.

[Your name]

I suggest you do not give this bottom-dwelling firm of bulk litigators any respect as they are not worthy of it. The tone suggested is perfectly acceptable. They are going to issue a claim no matter what. The purpose of the VAT questions is so that you can report the to HMRC for suspected VAT fraud.

I can say with 99% certainty that a DCB Legal issued claim that is correctly defended will eventually be discontinued.
Title: Re: Letter before claim from DCB legal
Post by: DWMB2 on October 16, 2024, 01:33:46 pm
In general it is a good idea to respond to Letters of Claim - once we see it, we can advise on a suitable response. What parking company are they acting for?
Title: Letter before claim from DCB legal
Post by: settop23 on October 16, 2024, 12:59:42 pm
Hi

I have receieved a letter of claim dated 08 October from this company, for 3 unpaid parking tickets from 28 March, 03 April and 07 April.  I do not recognise the location of the offences (all in the same location) and am unsure who was driving.

I did receieve some letters before this but have not responded to any as I am only the RK of the vehicle and did not know anything about it.  Whilst this was rather foolish, I wanted to know if it is best to reply to this letter before claim and what my next options are.  I will try to upload a copy of the letter today

Many thanks