Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Speeding and other criminal offences => Topic started by: wantmymoneyback on October 14, 2024, 04:15:09 pm
-
Ultimately look at the risk/reward of not accepting their offer, versus accepting.
- Accepting the course (if offered) costs you £100 or so, a few hours of your time, and no points.
- Accepting the points and fine costs you the fine, the points for 3 years, and you have however many less points til you tot (or if a new driver, your licence revoked)
- Rejecting both costs you a huge (£500+, probably closer to a grand), the points for jumping a red, lots of time wasted and stress.
(3) is the most expensive and most risky.
From looking at GSV and the photos, whilst the lights are fairly close to the stop line (3.1m on the RHS), whilst I appreciate you are in a lower vehicle and surrounded by larger vehicles, I expect you could have seen at least one of the lights by moving your head and/or body (and if you could not see any of them, you should not have proceeded). The big thick stop line is a big hint it's traffic light controlled, along with the other lights in the junction to your left.
I regularly use a junction where the light across the junction is out, and the other lights are only 2m from the stop line, and whilst you do need to turn your head, you can see them whilst stopped at the stop line.
-
I was sitting there at the line unable to see the lights to my right and left and not blocking the junction. The lorry started to move so i moved forward then saw the light was red and stopped without crossing the junction. i probably sat there for under 5 seconds however missed the full amber and then the red
-
You can’t see the light to the left or the right when sitting at the junction. Only the one across from the junction that is obscured from the lorry.
But how about when approaching the lights?
There are no vehicles shown in the pictures that would have blocked your view of the left hand light when approaching the junction and this light must have been red or amber when you were getting close to the stop line.
-
Time into red 0.9 seconds. Amber time 2.9 seconds
-
What is the alleged time into red on the NIP?
You may get offered a course. It costs around the same but avoids the COFP offer of 3 points and £100. But it does depend on time into the red as to whether it is offered or not.
-
You can’t see the light to the left or the right when sitting at the junction. Only the one across from the junction that is obscured from the lorry.
Anyway only came here for some advice. I shall accept the penalty
-
Are the traffic lights visible in the pictures from the cameras? We haven't seen those yet.
We have:
(https://thumbs4.imagebam.com/f8/2d/e4/MEWL905_t.jpeg) (https://www.imagebam.com/view/MEWL905)
which show clearly no obstruction of the left hand lights on this occasion.
-
Its obviously a money spinning junction and they could not care less for the safety of pedestrians or drivers else they would have amended the signals positionjs
The junction is designed, installed and maintained by the Highway Authority (e.g. local council). Any fines and fixed penalties go to the Treasury.
How is it money-spinning?
-
Thanks. What makes a crossing legal?
You may only move across the stop line when the lights are on red if personally directed to do so by a police officer in uniform.
Where I live there are a set of traffic lights on a urban dual carriageway with no way around them for the emergency services. It is relativly common to see traffic stopped at the red lights with no intention of moving under any circumstances and behind them is a police, fire or ambulance vehicle with lights etc blaring and no one moves.....until they change to green.
-
Are the traffic lights visible in the pictures from the cameras? We haven't seen those yet.
We have:
(https://thumbs4.imagebam.com/f8/2d/e4/MEWL905_t.jpeg) (https://www.imagebam.com/view/MEWL905)
-
As the road goes uphill you can clearly see the traffic lights. Except if traffic is heavy and there's buses and lorries about. As per the google maps example with a bus conveniently in the way. But a lorry in lane 3 or 4 would obstruct the view of the traffic lights. You also failed to see the 2 yellow cameras on the left. Beyond the junction I think 3 goes into 2 for short distance then widens out past the bus stop to 3 again as the road drops down to Hendon Central.
Are the traffic lights visible in the pictures from the cameras? We haven't seen those yet.
-
Whilst in hindsight you are correct that I should have stopped, my question is would a judge side with me?
Going back a few hundred yards on GSV and turning round, it is as clear as day that you are approaching a major junction. I would think that most drivers would realise that and also suspect the junction was controlled. As a result, they would exercise considerable caution until they found out.
That's how I think a court would see it and so, no, I don't think they would side with you.
What makes a crossing legal?
Certainly nothing in the circumstances you describe.
There's one other aspect you might like to consider: accepting a fixed penalty will cost you £100. Being convicted following a trial will cost you ten times that.
-
I am just saying that the chances oif finding 2 out of less than 200 people who have read this thread, know the junction and agree with me.
Its obviously a money spinning junction and they could not care less for the safety of pedestrians or drivers else they would have amended the signals positionjs
-
S. 36 RTA 1988 and TSRGD 2016.
You should definitely challenge this one. Just tell the court that 2 anonymous posters on the internet agreed that it can be easy for the lights to be obscured, and the court will throw the case out so fast that Kier Starmer will lose his CPS pension.
-
Contravening a red light is not an offence that requires intent, so whether you meant to do it or knew you were doing it is irrelevant.
Thanks. What makes a crossing legal?
The fact I have posted on a forum and have had 2 people respond who know the junction and say the traffic lights are hard to see seems to strengthen the case that possibly the junction doesn't conform with the rules?
-
Contravening a red light is not an offence that requires intent, so whether you meant to do it or knew you were doing it is irrelevant.
-
Whilst in hindsight you are correct that I should have stopped, my question is would a judge side with me?
Please see attached photos https://www.imagebam.com/view/GACSPS
At this junction I had the added pressures of the 2 lanes merging into 1.
Maybe I just take the 3 points……
-
... The road goes from 4 lanes to 3. so I was concentrating on that and could not see the traffic lights to my right and left and the one in front was obscured by the lorry.
Please see link to the junction.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/5Ut6FicPF5k1frQeA
I am not trying to "get Off". Just am not a traffic light jumper which is why I stopped without crossing the junction as soon as I saw the light was red.
I presume then that part of your car must have crossed the stop line when you couldn't actually see the lights and didn't realise they'd turned red. I believe that that is generally accepted to be jumping the lights.
I think you should have done what NewJudge said. If you couldn't see the lights you should have waited for the traffic ahead of you to clear so that you could see the lights before proceeding - or not proceeding...
-
Guide here: Posting Images (https://www.ftla.uk/announcements/posting-images/)
-
It won’t let me upload images.
Error message saying the uploaded is full!
-
I've been using that road for the last 50-odd years! Showing my age. I suppose depending what lane you're in it could be difficult to see the traffic lights in any position.
yep the lights at that junction are paticularly difficult to see if there are buses, lorry's, high sided vans.
How did you know the light had turned red if you couldn't see it?
OP said..
as soon as the lorry moved and I saw the light was red I stopped and never crossed the junction.
-
I've been using that road for the last 50-odd years! Showing my age. I suppose depending what lane you're in it could be difficult to see the traffic lights in any position. what lave were you in, what was in the other lanes? Have you been sent a video of the alleged offence? How did you know the light had turned red if you couldn't see it?
-
the junction has the 2 standard traffic lights to the right and left of the junction plus a further traffic light over the junction on the right hand side.
When close to/ at the junction, you rely on the traffic light over the junction.
I am not 100% sure of what happened, but would assume I was coming up to the junction rather slowly leaving a safe gap in behind the lorry. The lane I was in merges with the far right lane over the junction. The road goes from 4 lanes to 3. so I was concentrating on that and could not see the traffic lights to my right and left and the one in front was obscured by the lorry.
Please see link to the junction.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/5Ut6FicPF5k1frQeA
I am not trying to "get Off". Just am not a traffic light jumper which is why I stopped without crossing the junction as soon as I saw the light was red.
-
No camera to the left. Will post google link when home
You were asked about traffic lights, not a camera.
-
Were you aware that you were approaching a set of traffic lights? If so, and you couldn't see them, you should have waited until the traffic cleared so that you could. What you seem to be describing is a situation where you continued to press on, even though you could not tell whether it was safe to do so or not. A court might see it that way too, unless you can convince them otherwise.
-
No camera to the left. Will post google link when home
-
Traffic lights usually some in pairs. You seem to be focusing on the one to your right. Are you only telling us half the story in the hopes of making your case sound stronger, or was there no red light to your left to be seen if you had looked?
-
I was caught jumping a red light. I was in very slow moving traffic.
I could not see the light at the junction to my right as my and the one across the junction was totally blocked by a lorry as can be seen in the photos.
as soon as the lorry moved and I saw the light was red I stopped and never crossed the junction.
Is it worth me going to court over this matter?
I have 0 points on my license and have been offered to be considered for a fixed penalty.
Thanks For looking and any advice