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Live cases legal advice => Private parking tickets => Topic started by: eyalmms on October 14, 2024, 01:31:38 am

Title: Re: Parked on private land on mistaken advice of resident
Post by: b789 on April 01, 2025, 10:57:58 am
Their days are numbered. The Private Parking (Code of Practice) Act 2019 has been enacted (i.e., passed by Parliament and received Royal Assent). However, its provisions are not yet in force.

This is why the BPA and IPC have joined forces to publish the new PPSCoP, which they claim is based on the forthcoming legislation. They are attempting to give the impression of being sufficiently regulated to justify these changes, thereby misleading both the government and the public. In reality, the PPSCoP bears little resemblance to what will be implemented once the Act comes into full force. When the truly independent appeals service is established through legislation, their role as protectors of their paymasters' interests will come to an end.
Title: Re: Parked on private land on mistaken advice of resident
Post by: FaeLLe on March 31, 2025, 10:01:18 pm
I find it so annoying that we cannot do anything to hold ridiculous individuals and (apparently) independent adjudication forums like POPLA and IAS accountable.
Title: Re: Parked on private land on mistaken advice of resident
Post by: eyalmms on March 31, 2025, 06:57:16 pm

Before we move on, I agree with the comments in the post above. What is the name of the POPLA assessor. It is in the public domain so no need to withhold it. I keep a record of POPLA assessors who are quite clearly in need to further education on the law and their use of language.


Gayle Stanton
Will act as above and update accordingly.
One annoying thing is they're saying that the visibility of the sign at night is irrelevant as the car was parked in the day. How do they know when the car was actually parked - they just know the time it was discovered!..
Title: Re: Parked on private land on mistaken advice of resident
Post by: b789 on March 31, 2025, 03:14:12 pm
It means that you now move on to the next phase. You are not bound by a POPLA appeal rejection. Do not pay anything.

Before we move on, I agree with the comments in the post above. What is the name of the POPLA assessor. It is in the public domain so no need to withhold it. I keep a record of POPLA assessors who are quite clearly in need to further education on the law and their use of language.

In this case, that closing sentence needs a formal complaint about the assessor to the POPLA management:

Quote
Subject: Formal Complaint – Misleading and Legally Inaccurate Language in POPLA Decision

Dear POPLA,

I am writing to raise a formal complaint regarding the final sentence of the decision issued in my appeal reference [INSERT POPLA REFERENCE], which reads:

“This means the appellant is required to pay the full parking charge to the operator.”

This statement is legally inaccurate, misleading, and beyond the remit of POPLA’s powers. POPLA is not a court of law and cannot impose a legal requirement to pay. The Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 provides a statutory route for a parking operator to pursue a keeper in court, but no legal requirement to pay arises from a POPLA decision. At best, a POPLA rejection simply removes the operator’s obligation to offer the reduced payment amount and leaves them the option to pursue the matter through civil proceedings.

The phrase “required to pay” implies a binding obligation resulting from the POPLA outcome, which grossly misrepresents the legal position and may mislead vulnerable or uninformed appellants into believing they no longer have the right to challenge or dispute the parking charge.

I request that this matter be reviewed, and that:

1. The language used in future decisions be corrected to reflect the actual legal implications of a POPLA outcome.
2. POPLA issue clarification on the non-binding nature of its decisions.
3. The assessor responsible for this decision receives appropriate feedback or retraining.

I look forward to your response confirming that this complaint has been logged and investigated.

Yours faithfully,
[Your Name]

As for the rest of this moronic assessment by an obviously incompetent assessor, just ignore it. There are so many other flaws in their assessment and failures to fully address the points raised in the initial appeal and the subsequent rebuttal, that I am not going to waste more time on this.

You can now expect a flurry of powerless debt recovery letters which you can safely ignore. We don't need to know about them and you can shred them into hamster bedding for all anyone cares.

If/when you receive a Letter of Claim (LoC) or an N1SDT Claim Form from the CNCB, come back and show us so that we can advise on how to deal with it.

When you receive a response to the formal complaint to POPLA, please show us their response.
Title: Re: Parked on private land on mistaken advice of resident
Post by: H C Andersen on March 31, 2025, 12:44:51 pm
I suggest you read whatever authoritative texts you can find on the distinction between 'mandatory' and 'directory' as these terms apply to statutes.

IMO, you'll find that the use of '29 days' in this context it's used in the NTK is permitted as it is a reasonable and IMO successful attempt to convey the meaning of the law into understandable language. If you can show that in the context used it has a different outcome than the form of words used in statute, fine. But if not, then IMO no court would attach any weight to this point.

As regards this comment in the decision, 'This means the appellant is required to pay the full parking charge to the operator'. What f***ing nonsense.

The DRIVER remains liable until, where PoFA is engaged, legal proceedings are commenced against the keeper.

If the creditor wants the keeper to pay then they must say so in writing and demand payment. A requirement to pay does NOT arise from a POPLA decision.

This won't necessarily help you, but it's worrying when they can't get this right. 
Title: Re: Parked on private land on mistaken advice of resident
Post by: eyalmms on March 31, 2025, 11:35:53 am
Hey I'm back
Popla just messaged rejecting my appeal

Assessor summary of operator case
The operator has issued the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) because the vehicle was parked on the site and failed to display a valid permit.

Assessor summary of your case
The appellant has raised the following grounds of appeal: • As the registered keeper they are not responsible for the requested fee. • Due to improper signage and lack of compliance with PoFA paragraph 9(2)(a), they neither believe that any contract was entered into, nor that there is any burden on them to identify the driver or pay on their behalf. • The signage is not illuminated. • The operator does not have authority to issue charges on the site. In the comments the appellant reiterates and expands on their grounds of appeal in that the PCN does not comply with PoFA 2012. They say that in their original appeal that the operator had failed to demonstrate that they have the necessary contractual authority to issue parking charges on behalf of the landowner at this site. They say that the PCN does not clarify the period of parking and the single timestamp is not sufficient. The appellant has provided a document detailing their appeal which includes images of signage.

Assessor supporting rational for decision
When assessing an appeal POPLA considers if the operator has issued the parking charge notice correctly and if the driver has complied with the terms and conditions for the use of the car park. The operator has provided evidence of the vehicle parked on the site on the day in question. The Private Parking Sector Single Code of Practice (The Code) sets the standards its parking operators are required to comply with. The sector Code of Practice has been jointly created by the British Parking Association (BPA) and the International Parking Community (IPC). It is largely based on the Government’s Private Parking Code of Practice, which was published in February 2022, and subsequently withdrawn in June 2022. The new Code came into force on the 1 October 2024. It is stipulated in the Code that the parking operator needs to comply with all elements relating to signage by 31 December 2026. Therefore, for any aspects of this case relating to signage, I will be referring to version 9 of the BPA Code of Practice. This is applicable for parking events that occurred from 1 February 2024. The British Parking Association (BPA) has a Code of Practice which set the standards its parking operators need to comply with. The appellant advises that the signage is inadequate and not illuminated. Section 19.2 advises that entrance signs play an important part in establishing a parking contract and deterring trespassers. Therefore, as well as the signs you must have telling drivers about the terms and conditions for parking, you must also have a standard form of entrance sign at the entrance to the parking area. Entrance signs must tell drivers that the car park is managed and that there are terms and conditions they must be aware of. Section 19.3 of the code states that signs must be placed throughout the car park so that drivers have the chance to review the terms and conditions. The code confirms that these signs must be conspicuous and legible and written in intelligible language so that they are easy to see read and understand. The operator has provided a site map and multiple images of the signs within the car park and after reviewing these, I am satisfied that there are plenty of signs located within the car park and that these signs meet the requirements of section 19.2 and 19.3 of the Code of Practice. The signage on the site clearly advises that failing to display a valid permit in the windscreen will result in a PCN being issued. I note that the appellant has advised that the signage is not illuminated however as they had parked on the site during daylight hours I am satisfied that the operator is not required to rebut this The images of the vehicle provided by the operator show that the permit on view is not the relevant permit for the site. The appellant states that the PCN Is not PoFA compliant. The Protection of Freedoms Act (PoFA) 2012 is a law that allows parking operators to transfer the liability to the registered keeper in the event that the driver or hirer is not identified. Parking operators have to follow certain rules including warning the registered keeper that they will be liable if the parking operator is not provided with the name and address of the driver. In this case, the PCN in question has the necessary information and the parking operator has therefore successfully transferred the liability onto the registered keeper. The appellant questions whether the operator has authority to issue PCNs on the site. Section 14.1 of the Code states that where controlled land is being managed on behalf of a landowner, written confirmation must be obtained before a parking charge can be issued. The operator has provided a contract and I am satisfied that the operator has the authority to issue and pursue PCN’s on this site. The operator does not need to provide a full copy of the full contract as it may contain commercially sensitive information. After considering the evidence from both parties the vehicle was parked on the site and failed to display a valid permit and therefore the driver did not comply with the terms and conditions of the site. Based on the evidence provided, I am satisfied the parking charge has been issued correctly therefore, I must refuse the appeal. This means the appellant is required to pay the full parking charge to the operator.

Thoughts on where to go from here?
Thanks as always
E
Title: Re: Parked on private land on mistaken advice of resident
Post by: eyalmms on January 08, 2025, 06:12:21 pm
Quote
The operator’s version simply says "29 days," which is not the same thing and is legally incorrect.
It might be worth adding at least a sentence in here to set out why it is vague - it doesn't state when the 29 days begins, unlike PoFA's wording, which states exactly when the relevant period begins.

Some POPLA adjudicators take the view that if the same date is communicated but with different wording, that's fine (whether that should be the case is a different matter, but it is what it is) - here, that clearly isn't the case, without an obvious date from when the "29 days" they refer to should begin, it's impossible to know what time period they're referring to.

Have amended and sent off. Can't tell you how grateful I am for the input. Will be back with an answer in 6-8 weeks I suppose...
Title: Re: Parked on private land on mistaken advice of resident
Post by: b789 on January 08, 2025, 12:11:22 pm
You'd need to be careful not to exceed the 10,000 character limit. The text I provided is 9,974 characters. You can easily remove some of the waffle I've included, just to make the assessor earn their pay.
Title: Re: Parked on private land on mistaken advice of resident
Post by: DWMB2 on January 08, 2025, 11:48:45 am
Quote
The operator’s version simply says "29 days," which is not the same thing and is legally incorrect.
It might be worth adding at least a sentence in here to set out why it is vague - it doesn't state when the 29 days begins, unlike PoFA's wording, which states exactly when the relevant period begins.

Some POPLA adjudicators take the view that if the same date is communicated but with different wording, that's fine (whether that should be the case is a different matter, but it is what it is) - here, that clearly isn't the case, without an obvious date from when the "29 days" they refer to should begin, it's impossible to know what time period they're referring to.
Title: Re: Parked on private land on mistaken advice of resident
Post by: b789 on January 08, 2025, 11:04:57 am
Here is a rebuttal you can use by simply copying and pasting into the POPLA response webform. I tis under 10,000 characters but only covers 3 points they haven't fully answered but may be enough to make the assessor take note:

Quote
POPLA Rebuttal:

1. The operator claims their Notice to Keeper (NtK) is compliant with Paragraph 9(2)(f) of Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA) by stating:

"If after 29 days we have not received full payment or driver details, we may seek to recover the parking charge from the registered keeper."

This statement does not comply with the requirements set out in PoFA 9(2)(f)2. PoFA requires strict compliance, and the operator's failure to use the prescribed wording renders the NtK invalid for the purpose of transferring liability to the registered keeper.

What Does PoFA 9(2)(f) Actually Require?

Paragraph 9(2)(f) states that the NtK must:

"Warn the keeper that if, after the period of 28 days beginning with the day after that on which the notice is given—
(i) the amount of the unpaid parking charges specified under paragraph (d) has not been paid in full, and
(ii) the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver,
the creditor will (if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met) have the right to recover from the keeper so much of that amount as remains unpaid."

This wording is legally significant and must be included in the NtK in its entirety and without alteration. The operator’s paraphrasing fails to meet this requirement.

Why the Operator’s Wording Fails to Comply:

The operator's NtK incorrectly states:

"If after 29 days we have not received full payment or driver details, we may seek to recover the parking charge from the registered keeper."

This wording is inadequate for the following reasons:

The operator has incorrectly altered the statutory timeline. PoFA requires the notice to state that liability may be transferred if payment or driver details are not received "after the period of 28 days beginning with the day after that on which the notice is given." The operator’s version simply says "29 days," which is not the same thing and is legally incorrect.

The operator’s wording fails to clearly convey the legal consequences of failing to identify the driver. PoFA requires a clear warning that the creditor will have the right to recover the unpaid parking charges from the keeper if the conditions are met. The operator’s statement is vague and fails to adequately communicate this point.

The operator’s wording removes essential context. PoFA specifies that liability only transfers if the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver. The operator has omitted this critical information from their NtK.

Strict Compliance with PoFA is Required

PoFA is clear that parking operators must follow its requirements strictly in order to hold a registered keeper liable. The courts have consistently upheld that strict compliance is mandatory. The operator’s failure to comply with Paragraph 9(2)(f) means they have not met the legal requirements necessary to transfer liability to the registered keeper.

This failure renders the NtK invalid. The operator cannot pursue the registered keeper for the parking charge when their notice does not comply with the law.

Conclusion

The operator’s NtK does not comply with PoFA Paragraph 9(2)(f). The operator’s attempt to paraphrase and simplify the required wording has resulted in a material failure to meet the statutory requirements. As a result, liability cannot be transferred to the registered keeper.

2. The operator also claims that the NtK is compliant with PoFA Paragraph 9(2)(a) because it includes a date and time of the alleged contravention and photographs of the vehicle. The operator states:

"The PCN states the location, the date and time of the contravention and also contains images of the vehicle parked at the site, which is sufficient to identify the period of parking to which the notice relates. The PCN is therefore PoFA compliant."

This is incorrect and misleading. The operator is attempting to brush off a mandatory legal requirement by arguing that a single timestamp is sufficient to meet the requirement to specify the “period of parking.” This is not what PoFA requires.

What Does PoFA 9(2)(a) Actually Require?

PoFA 9(2)(a) clearly states:

"The notice must— (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked, and the period of parking to which the notice relates."

The key requirement here is that the NtK must specify the “period of parking” — this refers to a duration of time during which the vehicle was parked.

This is a fundamental requirement under PoFA because the length of time the vehicle was parked is critical to determining whether any contravention actually occurred. A single timestamp (e.g., "12:30 PM") is not the same as a period of parking and does not meet the legal requirement to specify the vehicle’s presence on the land for a defined period of time.

Why a Single Timestamp Fails to Meet the Requirement:

The operator’s NtK only provides a single point in time (the moment their ANPR system captured an image of the vehicle). However, the law requires them to specify a continuous period of time that the vehicle was allegedly parked.

For example:

A compliant NtK would state, "The vehicle was parked from 12:00 PM to 12:45 PM."

A non-compliant NtK (like the one provided by the operator) simply states, "The vehicle was photographed at 12:30 PM."

A single point in time (such as the moment the vehicle was photographed) does not indicate how long the vehicle was parked or whether it was parked at all. The vehicle could have simply been passing through the site, briefly stopping, or momentarily idling.

Without a period of parking being specified, the NtK fails to establish whether a parking contravention occurred at all.

What the Courts Have Said About This:

The requirement to specify a period of parking has been tested in court. In ParkingEye Ltd v Ms X (Altrincham County Court, 2017), the judge confirmed that a single timestamp does not meet the requirements of Paragraph 9(2)(a). The judge held that:

"A single timestamp does not constitute a 'period of parking.' The law requires a duration of time to be specified in order to transfer liability to the keeper."

The judge further stated that:

"The Protection of Freedoms Act is a statute that must be adhered to strictly by parking operators in order to transfer liability to the registered keeper. Deviating from the requirements, even slightly, renders the notice invalid."

Why This Failure Renders the NtK Invalid:

Because the operator has failed to specify the period of parking as required by Paragraph 9(2)(a), the NtK does not comply with PoFA. As such, the operator cannot hold the registered keeper liable for this parking charge.

In the absence of PoFA compliance, the only person liable would be the driver. However, the operator has not identified the driver and therefore cannot pursue the registered keeper.

The Operator’s Attempt to Brush This Off Must Be Rejected:

The operator is trying to gloss over a clear and significant failure in their NtK by claiming that a single timestamp is sufficient. It is not.

They have no basis in law to support this claim, and their interpretation of Paragraph 9(2)(a) is entirely incorrect. PoFA compliance is not a matter of opinion or "close enough" — the law requires strict compliance.

Example of How a Compliant NtK Should Look:

To further illustrate this point to the assessor, here’s an example of what a compliant NtK should specify:

Compliant NtK: "The vehicle was parked from 12:00 PM to 12:45 PM on 21st December 2024."

Non-Compliant NtK (What the operator provided): "The vehicle was photographed at 12:30 PM on 21st December 2024."

As shown, the operator’s NtK only specifies a single moment in time. This does not meet the legal requirement to specify a period of parking as required by PoFA.

POPLA Must Dismiss This Parking Charge

Given the operator’s clear failure to comply with PoFA, this NtK is invalid, and the operator cannot lawfully pursue the registered keeper for this charge.

3. One of my original grounds for appeal was that the operator had failed to demonstrate that they have the necessary contractual authority to issue parking charges on behalf of the landowner at this site. The operator has not adequately responded to this point.

The Private Parking Sector Single Code of Practice requires parking operators to have a valid written contract with the landowner or person entitled to grant such authority. This contract must provide clear authorisation to manage parking on the land and issue parking charges. It is also a requirement that this authority must be produced in the event of a dispute.

The operator has not provided any evidence of such a contract. It is not sufficient for the operator to claim that they are authorised by the landowner. They must produce a copy of the contract or agreement, even in a redacted form, to prove they have this authority.

The necessity for the operator to provide this evidence is further supported by case law. In ParkingEye Ltd v Beavis [2015] UKSC 67, the Supreme Court confirmed that a parking operator must be able to demonstrate that they have a valid contract with the landowner to enforce parking charges. Without this, the parking charge is not valid.

I request that the POPLA assessor requires the operator to submit a copy of their contract with the landowner, redacted only for commercially sensitive information. If the operator is unable to provide this evidence, the appeal must be upheld.

It is important to note that the operator has not even claimed to have provided such evidence. This is a critical omission. Their failure to demonstrate landowner authority must be taken seriously, as it calls into question the legality of the entire parking charge.

In summary, the operator’s failure to provide evidence of landowner authority is a fundamental failure. I request that the appeal be upheld on this point alone.
Title: Re: Parked on private land on mistaken advice of resident
Post by: eyalmms on January 07, 2025, 06:04:18 pm
Continue to only appeal as the Registered Keeper (RK). They have no idea who the driver is and you are under no legal obligation to identify the driver to an unregulated private parking company.

If we put it together, PoFA paragraph 9(2)(a) states:

Quote
9 (1) A notice which is to be relied on as a notice to keeper for the purposes of paragraph 6(1)(b) is given in accordance with this paragraph if the following requirements are met.

(2) The notice must

(a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;

So, is there anything in the NtK you received that "specifies" the "period of parking"? You tell me.

Unless ALL the requirements of PoFA are fully complied with, then they cannot hold the Keeper liable. So, don't identify the driver.

Are they wrong about the clear implication of the period? Am I being pedantic, or are they taking liberties?
Title: Re: Parked on private land on mistaken advice of resident
Post by: eyalmms on January 07, 2025, 06:01:59 pm
Hi, sorry to chase. Just seems a shame to end up being rejected just because I haven't replied to their response
Or do they make a good arguement that should spur me to back down?
Title: Re: Parked on private land on mistaken advice of resident
Post by: eyalmms on January 03, 2025, 03:57:52 pm
Hi all
Have just been sent this through Popla. Along with proof that manage the land etc. Have been given 7 days to respond - do I reply?
Thanks again
E
Title: Re: Parked on private land on mistaken advice of resident
Post by: eyalmms on January 03, 2025, 02:07:35 pm
Dear Assessor,

The contract that we are seeking payment on has arisen from a breach of the notified terms and conditions of parking stated on the signs that the landowner has requested us to erect and permitted to remain erected at this location. The evidence demonstrates that the signage, including the entrance signs, is clearly located to make motorists aware of the terms and conditions and the potential consequences of non-adherence to the terms have been made fully available "PRIVATE ROAD, MONITORED PARKING IN OPERATION SATURDAY 11am – 12pm, 1pm-2pm, 3:30-4:30pm and 7-8pm.
UNAUTHORISED PARKING BY MEANS OF NOT SHOWING A CLEARLY DISPLAYED VALID PERMIT IN THE WINDSCREEN WILL RESULT IN A PARKING CHARGE NOTICE OF £100 BEING ISSUED".
The charge was issued because the appellant's vehicle was parked without a valid permit on Saturday between 1pm and 2pm, which directly contravened the terms and conditions of parking.
The evidence demonstrates that the entrance sign makes it clear that motorists enter private land managed by our company on behalf of the landowner. It is also clear in its communication that terms and conditions apply. The terms were adequately brought to the driver's attention. The signage stands out from the surroundings of the site. The signage is displayed as black text on a white background, making it prominent to all motorists when they park. The sum payable for unauthorised parking is printed in larger bold letters, which is more than visible when reviewing the signage. The signage at the location in question is BPA compliant and would have been visible when the driver arrived on site. Whilst we note the appellant has raised lighting within their grounds of appeal, the signage on site is made of retro-reflective material, ensuring visibility if illuminated by vehicle headlights. However, the contravention took place during daylight hours, and therefore, the driver had sufficient lighting to review the terms and conditions of parking. It was then the driver's responsibility to ensure they sought out and adhered to the advertised terms. By instead choosing to ignore the terms and remain without a valid on display, the driver became liable for a parking charge.
It is important to note that the operator does not have to issue a notice directly to the driver of the vehicle, as it can hold the keeper of the vehicle liable for the charge. For a Notice to Keeper to be compliant with PoFA 2012, as detailed in section 9(2)(f) “warn the keeper that if, after the period of 28 days beginning with the day after that on which the notice is given— (i) the amount of the unpaid parking charges specified under paragraph (d) has not been paid in full, and (ii) the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver, the creditor will (if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met) have the right to recover from the keeper so much of that amount as remains unpaid.” The Notice to Keeper correctly conveys this information. It states the keeper has ‘If after 29 days we have not received full payment or driver details’, which is the equivalent of ‘28 days beginning the day after the that on which the notice is given’. This is compliant with PoFA Act 2012 requirements, and therefore, the parking charge is BPA and POFA 2012 compliant. The evidence does not indicate that the keeper provided us with the relevant information to transfer liability to the driver. By failing to provide the driver's details, the appellant has assumed liability for this PCN.
The appellant also says that the PCN does not comply with paragraph 9(2) (a) of the Protection of Freedoms Act (PoFA) 2012, which states: “Specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates.” The PCN states the location, the date and time of the contravention and also contains images of the vehicle parked at the site, which is sufficient to identify the period of parking to which the notice relates. The PCN is therefore PoFA compliant.
Ultimately, it is the motorist’s responsibility to ensure they adhere to the site's terms in order to avoid the possibility of a PCN being issued."
Title: Re: Parked on private land on mistaken advice of resident
Post by: b789 on December 24, 2024, 05:09:46 pm
Yes, you should include any evidential images you want to rely on. For example, is the case of signage, you could use something like the example below to show inadequacies:

(https://i.imgur.com/tRGrm5q.jpeg)

You could also show photos of how there is a lack of signs or that they are not prominent etc.
Title: Re: Parked on private land on mistaken advice of resident
Post by: eyalmms on December 24, 2024, 09:12:39 am
When submitting the challenge, do I include photos of the signage in the pdf, or just make my points about the signs not complying and let them look for themselves?
Title: Re: Parked on private land on mistaken advice of resident
Post by: eyalmms on December 24, 2024, 06:39:22 am
"Posting"??? I hope you mean sending through the POPLA website. You can just save it as a PDF and upload it. Make sure you don't select anything that gives away the drivers identity. The appellant is the Keeper or "other" only.

To be honest I had presumed that I submit through a website but I'll work out out! Will keep the driver's identity of it, thanks
E
Title: Re: Parked on private land on mistaken advice of resident
Post by: b789 on December 24, 2024, 01:05:02 am
"Posting"??? I hope you mean sending through the POPLA website. You can just save it as a PDF and upload it. Make sure you don't select anything that gives away the drivers identity. The appellant is the Keeper or "other" only.
Title: Re: Parked on private land on mistaken advice of resident
Post by: eyalmms on December 24, 2024, 12:20:25 am
Hey. Am posting this tomorrow so it's not hanging over me on Christmas. Wish me luck!..
E
Title: Re: Parked on private land on mistaken advice of resident
Post by: eyalmms on December 16, 2024, 03:21:09 pm
Hey
Any further input to the appeal? Would like to send it so and just have one less thing hanging over me
Thanks all
E
Title: Re: Parked on private land on mistaken advice of resident
Post by: eyalmms on December 11, 2024, 03:04:21 pm
Apologies. Messaged again as I thought I'd sent this draft on Saturday. But clearly not!
Title: Re: Parked on private land on mistaken advice of resident
Post by: eyalmms on December 10, 2024, 09:40:27 am
Really appreciate the ongoing feedback

Is this better?

**Dear Mr. Assessor,** 
**PCN: [Your Reference Number]**

The issue in dispute here is whether the creditor has the right to enforce against the driver the requirement to pay the parking charge and, if so, whether they can claim this from the keeper of the vehicle.

I have set out my appeal accordingly:

**Does the creditor have the right to enforce against the driver the requirement to pay the parking charge?**

Before going into the detail of the events on the site and my appeal, the assessor is obliged to satisfy themselves that the creditor has the necessary authority to enter into contracts and impose parking charges on behalf of the landowner. This would necessitate the creditor providing evidence to this effect, and I reserve the right to present an argument based upon this once a copy has been provided to me.

Subject to the creditor having this authority, I dispute that this could give rise to a relevant obligation on the driver's part in this case because the signs in situ fail to comply with the Code of Practice as follows:

1. **Inadequate Signage:** 
   The parking signage does not comply with the regulations required for enforceable private parking contracts. The signage fails to clearly display the terms and conditions, including the potential £100 Parking Charge Notice, in a manner that meets the standards of the Consumer Rights Act 2015 and the Private Parking Sector Single Code of Practice.

   - **Lack of Adequate Illumination:** 
     The sign is mounted on a pole with no provision for adequate lighting. It is difficult to read in low-light conditions, rendering it impossible for motorists to see and understand the terms at night. This does not comply with the requirement that parking terms must be clearly visible and legible under all conditions, including at night or in poor weather.

   - **Insufficient Notice of Key Terms:** 
     The terms and conditions are written in small, dense text. Key information such as the penalty amount and conditions for enforcement is not prominent or clearly displayed.

   - **Ambiguous Time Restrictions:** 
     The sign lists a complex schedule of restricted parking hours for each day. This schedule is excessively convoluted, making it unreasonable to expect drivers to understand and comply within the short time they have to park and assess the situation.

**Does the creditor have the right to recover unpaid parking charges from the keeper of the vehicle?**

This would require the creditor to comply with the provisions of paragraphs 5, 6, 9, 11, and 12 (as the case may be) of Schedule 4 to the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012. However, the creditor has failed to comply with paragraph 9, and therefore paragraph 6, for the following reasons:

2. **Lack of Specified Period of Parking:** 
   According to Paragraph 9(2)(a) of Schedule 4 of the PoFA, for the NTK to be valid, it must specify "the period of parking to which the notice relates." The NTK issued by Private Parking Solutions (London) Ltd only mentions a single point in time, rather than a specific period during which the vehicle was parked. This omission is a clear failure to comply with the PoFA requirements, rendering the NTK invalid. As such, the parking company does not have the legal right to claim unpaid parking charges from the registered keeper.

3. **Lack of Clear Authority:** 
   The sign lacks clear evidence of Private Parking Solutions' authority to manage parking on this land. The Private Parking Sector Single Code of Practice requires parking operators to display evidence of their contractual right to issue parking charges on the site. This is absent from the sign.

Given these points, I respectfully request that POPLA upholds my appeal and instructs Private Parking Solutions (London) Ltd to cancel the PCN.

Yours faithfully, 
Title: Re: Parked on private land on mistaken advice of resident
Post by: H C Andersen on December 08, 2024, 01:05:31 pm
Dear Mr Assessor,
PCN *********

The issue in dispute here is whether the creditor has the right to enforce against the driver the requirement to pay the parking charge and, if so, whether they could claim this from the keeper of the vehicle.

I have set out my appeal accordingly.

Does the creditor have the right to enforce against the driver the requirement to pay the parking charge

Before going into the detail of the events on the site and my appeal, the assessor is obliged to satisfy themselves that the creditor has the necessary authority to enter into contracts and impose parking charges on behalf of the landowner. This would necessitate the creditor providing evidence to this effect and I reserve the right to present argument based upon this once a copy has been provided to me. 

Subject to the creditor having this authority, I dispute that this could give rise to a relevant obligation on the driver's part in this case because the signs in situ fail to comply with the Code of Practice as follows:

...the signage issues.

Does the creditor have the right to recover unpaid parking charges from the keeper of the vehicle
This would require the creditor to comply with the provisions of paragraphs 5,6,9,11 and 12 (as the case may be) of Schedule 4 to the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012. However, the creditor has failed to comply with paragraph 9, and therefore paragraph 6, for the following reasons:

****** your NTK issues.

Would be my approach to structure...apart from any other reason because this is how the assessor would approach the issue.
Title: Re: Parked on private land on mistaken advice of resident
Post by: eyalmms on December 07, 2024, 06:33:10 pm
The time and date of the breach? (you've obscured this).
The back of the PCN pl.

There's no BPA Code of Practice as such, there's the Private Parking Sector Single Code of Practice if the event took place on or after 1 Oct.

So I suggest you re-read your draft and remove references to an out of date CoP, I also suggest you remove reference to TSRGD which has nothing whatsoever to do with contracts for parking on private land(it applies to traffic authorities), I also suggest you aggregate and don't repeat points under PoFA and CoP breaches, and remove the double negative here:

I contest that the Notice to Keeper (NTK) issued by Private Parking Solutions (London) Ltd does not specify the "period of parking" as required under Paragraph 9(2)(a) of Schedule 4 of the PoFA.



I am writing to appeal a Parking Charge Notice (PCN) issued to my vehicle on ********* by Private Parking Solutions (London) Ltd. I am the registered keeper of the vehicle in question and have not disclosed the identity of the driver.

The basis of my appeal is the failure of the parking company to comply with the requirements set out in the Protection of Freedoms Act (PoFA) 2012 and the inadequacy of the parking signage. Specifically, I contest that the Notice to Keeper (NTK) issued by Private Parking Solutions (London) Ltd fails to specify the "period of parking" as required under Paragraph 9(2)(a) of Schedule 4 of the PoFA.

Key points of my appeal are as follows:

1. Lack of Specified Period of Parking:
   According to Paragraph 9(2)(a) of Schedule 4 of the PoFA, for the NTK to be valid, it must specify "the period of parking to which the notice relates." The NTK issued by Private Parking Solutions (London) Ltd only mentions a single point in time, rather than a specific period during which the vehicle was parked. This omission is a clear failure to comply with the PoFA requirements, rendering the NTK invalid. As such, the parking company does not have the legal right to claim unpaid parking charges from the registered keeper.

2. Inadequate Signage:
   The parking signage does not comply with the regulations required for enforceable private parking contracts. The signage fails to clearly display the terms and conditions, including the potential £100 Parking Charge Notice, in a manner that meets the standards of the Consumer Rights Act 2015 and the Private Parking Sector Single Code of Practice.

   Lack of Adequate Illumination:
     The sign is mounted on a pole with no provision for adequate lighting. It is difficult to read in low-light conditions, rendering it impossible for motorists to see and understand the terms at night. This does not comply with the requirement that parking terms must be clearly visible and legible under all conditions, including at night or in poor weather.

   - **Insufficient Notice of Key Terms:** 
     The terms and conditions are written in small, dense text. Key information such as the penalty amount and conditions for enforcement is not prominent or clearly displayed.

   Ambiguous Time Restrictions:
     The sign lists a complex schedule of restricted parking hours for each day. This schedule is excessively convoluted, making it unreasonable to expect drivers to understand and comply within the short time they have to park and assess the situation.

3. Lack of Clear Authority:
   The sign lacks clear evidence of Private Parking Solutions' authority to manage parking on this land. The Private Parking Sector Single Code of Practice requires parking operators to display evidence of their contractual right to issue parking charges on the site. This is absent from the sign.

Given these points, I respectfully request that POPLA upholds my appeal and instructs Private Parking Solutions (London) Ltd to cancel the PCN.

Yours faithfully
Title: Re: Parked on private land on mistaken advice of resident
Post by: eyalmms on December 03, 2024, 05:22:16 pm
The time and date of the breach? (you've obscured this).
The back of the PCN pl.

[/i]

Noted - will redraft

I obscured the date and time deliberately (always have done since pepipoo). Will obviously add it back in or was there something specific about it? Happened October 8th so will read the private parking sector single code of conduct. Thanks
Title: Re: Parked on private land on mistaken advice of resident
Post by: H C Andersen on December 03, 2024, 05:16:28 pm
The time and date of the breach? (you've obscured this).
The back of the PCN pl.

There's no BPA Code of Practice as such, there's the Private Parking Sector Single Code of Practice if the event took place on or after 1 Oct.

So I suggest you re-read your draft and remove references to an out of date CoP, I also suggest you remove reference to TSRGD which has nothing whatsoever to do with contracts for parking on private land(it applies to traffic authorities), I also suggest you aggregate and don't repeat points under PoFA and CoP breaches, and remove the double negative here:

I contest that the Notice to Keeper (NTK) issued by Private Parking Solutions (London) Ltd does not specify the "period of parking" as required under Paragraph 9(2)(a) of Schedule 4 of the PoFA.


Title: Re: Parked on private land on mistaken advice of resident
Post by: eyalmms on December 03, 2024, 03:15:10 pm
I am writing to appeal a Parking Charge Notice (PCN) issued to my vehicle on ------ by Private Parking Solutions (London) Ltd. I am the registered keeper of the vehicle in question and have not disclosed the identity of the driver.

The basis of my appeal is the failure of the parking company to comply with the requirements set out in the Protection of Freedoms Act (PoFA) 2012 and on the grounds that the parking signage does not comply with the regulations required for enforceable private parking contracts. Specifically, I contest that the Notice to Keeper (NTK) issued by Private Parking Solutions (London) Ltd does not specify the "period of parking" as required under Paragraph 9(2)(a) of Schedule 4 of the PoFA.

While the NTK mentions the time of the alleged parking contravention, it fails to state the actual "period of parking" during which the vehicle was purportedly parked. The PoFA clearly differentiates between the time of issue and the period of parking, and the NTK must include the latter to meet the statutory requirements. Similarly, the deficiencies in the signage mean that no contract was formed between the driver and Private Parking Solutions (London) Ltd.

**Key points of my appeal are as follows:**

1. **Lack of Specified Period of Parking:** 
   According to Paragraph 9(2)(a) of Schedule 4 of the PoFA, for the NTK to be valid, it must specify "the period of parking to which the notice relates." The NTK issued by [parking company's name] only mentions a single point in time, rather than a specific period during which the vehicle was parked. This omission is a clear failure to comply with the PoFA requirements, rendering the NTK invalid.

2. **Non-Compliance with PoFA:** 
   The failure to specify the "period of parking" invalidates the NTK under the PoFA 2012. As such, the parking company does not have the legal right to claim unpaid parking charges from the registered keeper.

3. **Requirement for Strict Adherence:** 
   As the registered keeper, I am entitled to expect that the parking company adheres strictly to all statutory requirements when issuing a NTK. Non-compliance with these requirements invalidates any claim against me.

4. Lack of Adequate Illumination
The sign is mounted on a pole with no provision for adequate lighting. The photograph clearly shows that the sign is difficult to read in low-light conditions, rendering it impossible for motorists to see and understand the terms at night. This does not comply with the British Parking Association (BPA) Code of Practice, Section 19.3, which requires that parking terms must be clearly visible and legible under all conditions, including at night or in poor weather.

5. Insufficient Notice of Key Terms
The sign fails to meet the standards of the Consumer Rights Act 2015 and BPA Code of Practice. The terms and conditions, including the potential £100 Parking Charge Notice, are written in small, dense text. Key information such as the penalty amount and conditions for enforcement is not prominent or clearly displayed.

The ParkingEye v Beavis [2015] UKSC 67 case stressed the importance of clear and prominent signage for creating a binding parking contract. Here, the terms are obscured due to poor design and positioning, undermining their enforceability.

6. Ambiguous Time Restrictions
The sign lists a complex schedule of restricted parking hours for each day. This schedule is excessively convoluted, making it unreasonable to expect drivers to understand and comply within the short time they have to park and assess the situation. As per the BPA Code of Practice (Section 19.4), terms must be clear and concise. This sign clearly fails this standard.

7. Non-Compliance with Regulatory Design Standards
The sign does not adhere to the Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2016 (TSRGD) standards, which apply to private parking signage. While TSRGD is not legally binding on private operators, compliance is often cited as a benchmark for clarity and enforceability.

8. Lack of Clear Authority
The sign lacks clear evidence of Private Parking Solutions' authority to manage parking on this land. The BPA Code of Practice, Section 7, requires parking operators to display evidence of their contractual right to issue parking charges on the site. This is absent from the sign.

Given these points, I respectfully request that POPLA upholds my appeal and instructs Private Parking Solutions (London) Ltd to cancel the PCN.

Yours faithfully,
Title: Re: Parked on private land on mistaken advice of resident
Post by: b789 on November 28, 2024, 04:14:44 pm
Continue to only appeal as the Registered Keeper (RK). They have no idea who the driver is and you are under no legal obligation to identify the driver to an unregulated private parking company.

If we put it together, PoFA paragraph 9(2)(a) states:

Quote
9 (1) A notice which is to be relied on as a notice to keeper for the purposes of paragraph 6(1)(b) is given in accordance with this paragraph if the following requirements are met.

(2) The notice must

(a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;

So, is there anything in the NtK you received that "specifies" the "period of parking"? You tell me.

Unless ALL the requirements of PoFA are fully complied with, then they cannot hold the Keeper liable. So, don't identify the driver.
Title: Re: Parked on private land on mistaken advice of resident
Post by: eyalmms on November 28, 2024, 04:06:54 pm
We originally discussed not complying with their request for the details of the driver. Should I continue that or do I now tell them who is responsible for the charge?

The charge stated the time - when 9(2a) states "period" is there an obligation to write a start and end time?

Thanks
E
Title: Re: Parked on private land on mistaken advice of resident
Post by: b789 on November 28, 2024, 03:55:41 pm
Good news, sort of, so you can now make an appeal to POPLA. You have a deadline of Tuesday 31st December to lodge your POPLA appeal. There is no need to rush it and they are taking at least 6-8 weeks to me an assessment at the moment so you postpone receiving a decision until around mid February 2025.

I suggest you start to cobble together what you think is an appeal to POPLA and show us so that we can then advise on any changes or improvements. Poor signage is a very powerful point to make. Also, failure to fully comply with PoFA is another as there is no mention of the period of parking as required by paragraph 9(2)(a) of PoFA. Throw in lack of authority to issue PCNs and but them to strict proof of a valid contract.
Title: Re: Parked on private land on mistaken advice of resident
Post by: eyalmms on November 28, 2024, 02:57:20 pm
They just sent a new Popla code!
Presumably it's now worth appealing?

https://imgur.com/a/9R42aWd has the original rejection and the new one
Title: Re: Parked on private land on mistaken advice of resident
Post by: eyalmms on November 27, 2024, 02:49:29 pm
I'm in your hands!
Thanks again - really appreciated
Title: Re: Parked on private land on mistaken advice of resident
Post by: b789 on November 27, 2024, 02:32:05 pm
You can always write to your MP and ask for their assistance.

As for a court case, whilst it is likely that they may eventually start litigation, it is rare that these cases, where we are giving advice, ever get as far as an actual hearing in court. In the vast majority of cases, the claim is either discontinued or struck out.

In the rare instances where a claim is actually heard, most are again, struck out or won. We would never advise anything that would risk a CCJ on your record. In the highly unlikely event that you were to go all the way to a hearing and were not successful, as it is in the small claims track, all costs are fixed and it is more likely than not, that the amount awarded is less than the original claim amount.

For example, the fake added £60-£70 that they add for debt recovery or "damages" is not usually allowed. In most cases, it would come to around (£100 PCN, £50 fixed legal fees and £35 application fee) a total of £185. There is also a trial fee of £27 and in rare cases a bit of interest. Usually less than £220 in total.

As long as that amount is paid in full within 28 days of judgment, there is no record of it in your credit file. It is completely expunged. So we do not put you at risk of having a CCJ on your record.

As I mentioned though, it is extremely rare and in my personal capacity, having been doing this for almost three years, I have not yet had any losses. I don't intend for you to babe the first.
Title: Re: Parked on private land on mistaken advice of resident
Post by: eyalmms on November 27, 2024, 01:48:22 pm
So not time to start writing to my MP just yet?!?
Incredibly frustrating but appreciate the ongoing support.
Really would rather avoid a court case!
Title: Re: Parked on private land on mistaken advice of resident
Post by: b789 on November 27, 2024, 01:38:20 pm
It is too late to appeal to POPLA. The POPLA code is valid for 33 days from the date of the appeal rejection. (they allow 5 days for service of the notice).

It is not a "fine" and should never be referred to as one. It is simply an invoice, a speculative one at that, and they have now added a fake £60 debt recovery fee.

Ignore all debt collector letters. They are powerless to do anything and you can safely use their correspondence as kindling or to line the bottom of a litter tray. Never, ever communicate with a useless debt collector.

Because you have failed to regularly check your spam folder, you are now in a limbo phase. You are waiting to see whether they decide escalate to litigation. If/when you receive a Letter of Claim (LoC) which will be different from all the debt collector rubbish because it will give you 30 days to pay rather than the usual 14 days, then come back and we will advise on a response.

Eventually, they may issue a claim in the county court. That is where you will most likely defeat this. Just continue to safely ignore all the DRA rubbish they will send you.
Title: Re: Parked on private land on mistaken advice of resident
Post by: eyalmms on November 27, 2024, 01:14:58 pm
https://privateparkingsolutions.com/contact-us.html (https://privateparkingsolutions.com/contact-us.html)

Thanks for this - got their phone number from here
Title: Re: Parked on private land on mistaken advice of resident
Post by: eyalmms on November 27, 2024, 01:04:06 pm
Hi there
Chased them again today and got hold of someone by telephone. They said they would resend immediately and lo and behold it turned up in my spam (grouped with their previous reply)
All of that means the popla appeal code has now expired (today is day 35)
Is there anything else I can do?
Fine now gone up to £160!!!
E
Title: Re: Parked on private land on mistaken advice of resident
Post by: eyalmms on November 25, 2024, 04:01:28 pm
Still no update.
Do I continue to chase or does this just strengthen my argument?
E
Title: Re: Parked on private land on mistaken advice of resident
Post by: DWMB2 on November 08, 2024, 02:13:53 pm
https://privateparkingsolutions.com/contact-us.html (https://privateparkingsolutions.com/contact-us.html)
Title: Re: Parked on private land on mistaken advice of resident
Post by: eyalmms on November 08, 2024, 02:10:38 pm
Thanks
Amazingly the reply failed as the email address they used is not recognised
Also can't log in through the appeal website because I've already appealed
How hard do I try?!
E
Title: Re: Parked on private land on mistaken advice of resident
Post by: DWMB2 on November 08, 2024, 01:42:00 pm
I'd contact them.
Title: Re: Parked on private land on mistaken advice of resident
Post by: eyalmms on November 08, 2024, 01:37:30 pm
I've not had a reply to my appeal

The automated reply said to contact them if no response after 14 days

Should I do that, or just leave them to it?
Title: Re: Parked on private land on mistaken advice of resident
Post by: DWMB2 on October 14, 2024, 05:08:17 pm
There's an email address provided here: https://www.harrow.gov.uk/road-maintenance-travel/traffic-management-orders (https://www.harrow.gov.uk/road-maintenance-travel/traffic-management-orders) - give that a try. If no joy, you could send in a Freedom of Information request for any existing orders on that road.
Title: Re: Parked on private land on mistaken advice of resident
Post by: eyalmms on October 14, 2024, 04:59:15 pm
Whereabouts are you looking where they are demanding a fee? That seems like the sort of information that wound ordinarily be available for free, either already published, or via an FOI request.

https://www.harrow.gov.uk/road-maintenance-travel/highway-searches
Title: Re: Parked on private land on mistaken advice of resident
Post by: DWMB2 on October 14, 2024, 04:58:59 pm
There are other grounds to appeal - the point raised about checking for TROs/TMOs was merely to see if there is another ground of appeal that can be used at a later date. If there are none then it's not a disaster, we can still look at other grounds as already discussed, like the shoddy signage.
Title: Re: Parked on private land on mistaken advice of resident
Post by: eyalmms on October 14, 2024, 04:55:34 pm
No. The appeal is going to be rejected no matter what you put in it.
Right. I suppose I mean based on the fact I can't find any controls, should I still appeal? Or am I still good to fight?
Thanks
Title: Re: Parked on private land on mistaken advice of resident
Post by: DWMB2 on October 14, 2024, 04:53:43 pm
Whereabouts are you looking where they are demanding a fee? That seems like the sort of information that wound ordinarily be available for free, either already published, or via an FOI request.
Title: Re: Parked on private land on mistaken advice of resident
Post by: b789 on October 14, 2024, 04:50:22 pm
No. The appeal is going to be rejected no matter what you put in it.
Title: Re: Parked on private land on mistaken advice of resident
Post by: eyalmms on October 14, 2024, 03:46:57 pm
If it is an unadopted highway, that only means that it is privately maintained, but it may or may not be subject to statutory control. Check for any Traffic Regulation Orders (TRO) or other regulations governing the road, as these would indicate statutory control. If such controls exist, the road would not qualify as "relevant land" under PoFA. If no such controls are in place, the road should be considered private land under PoFA, and keeper liability could apply.

Can't find anything on Google and the cost to search on the harrow website is similar to paying the reduced amount on the ticket. Does the seeming lack of controls improve or diminish my chances of appealing? Do I need to amend the verbatim blurb you posted originally?
Cheers
Eyal
Title: Re: Parked on private land on mistaken advice of resident
Post by: b789 on October 14, 2024, 03:30:56 pm
If it is an unadopted highway, that only means that it is privately maintained, but it may or may not be subject to statutory control. Check for any Traffic Regulation Orders (TRO) or other regulations governing the road, as these would indicate statutory control. If such controls exist, the road would not qualify as "relevant land" under PoFA. If no such controls are in place, the road should be considered private land under PoFA, and keeper liability could apply.
Title: Re: Parked on private land on mistaken advice of resident
Post by: eyalmms on October 14, 2024, 03:22:07 pm
Can you show us that document or a link to it please?

With pleasure! https://www.harrow.gov.uk/downloads/file/30121/Highway_Adoption_Register_v3i.pdf
Title: Re: Parked on private land on mistaken advice of resident
Post by: b789 on October 14, 2024, 03:19:28 pm
Can you show us that document or a link to it please?
Title: Re: Parked on private land on mistaken advice of resident
Post by: eyalmms on October 14, 2024, 03:12:11 pm
No benefit to including anything about not issuing a physical ticket or the application to DVLA for unpaid fines when at that point nothing was overdue?
No, neither of those things are reasons the charge is not owed. Parking companies are not required to issue a physical ticket on the car windscreen. PPS' position is that the signage states that breaching the terms of parking mean that the driver agrees to pay £100 - at the time they contacted DVLA that £100 had not been paid and therefore that balance is outstanding, so there's not much mileage in that argument.

A couple of points for when we get to POPLA:
  • That signage is rubbish! If you're able to get some more photos of its layout and contents that could be handy - also photos of the signage at the entrance to the private road
  • As this is a private road case, it's always worth checking with the relevant local council that it is indeed a private road, and not an adopted highway

Harrow document from 2023 calling it an "unadopted highway"...
Title: Re: Parked on private land on mistaken advice of resident
Post by: DWMB2 on October 14, 2024, 03:05:37 pm
No benefit to including anything about not issuing a physical ticket or the application to DVLA for unpaid fines when at that point nothing was overdue?
No, neither of those things are reasons the charge is not owed. Parking companies are not required to issue a physical ticket on the car windscreen. PPS' position is that the signage states that breaching the terms of parking mean that the driver agrees to pay £100 - at the time they contacted DVLA that £100 had not been paid and therefore that balance is outstanding, so there's not much mileage in that argument.

A couple of points for when we get to POPLA:
Title: Re: Parked on private land on mistaken advice of resident
Post by: eyalmms on October 14, 2024, 02:47:16 pm

For the time being, appeal to PPS as the Keeper (not the driver) with the following, verbatim:

Quote
I am the keeper of the vehicle and I dispute your 'parking charge'. I deny any liability or contractual agreement and I will be making a complaint about your predatory conduct to your client landowner.

As your Notice to Keeper (NtK) does not fully comply with ALL the requirements of PoFA 2012, you are unable to hold the keeper of the vehicle liable for the charge. Partial or even substantial compliance is not sufficient. There will be no admission as to who was driving and no inference or assumptions can be drawn. PPS has relied on contract law allegations of breach against the driver only.

The registered keeper cannot be presumed or inferred to have been the driver, nor pursued under some twisted interpretation of the law of agency. Your NtK can only hold the driver liable. PPS have no hope at POPLA, so you are urged to save us both a complete waste of time and cancel the PCN.

It will be rejected but they will issue a POPLA code where there is more chance of a successful appeal. Even if POPLA appeal fails, there is no obligation to pay the speculative invoice. It may go as far asa court claim which is easily defended if it ever went that far. That is a bridge to cross if we ever come to it, suffice it to say that we have a 99% success rate.

Thank you so so much
No benefit to including anything about not issuing a physical ticket or the application to DVLA for unpaid fines when at that point nothing was overdue?
E
Title: Re: Parked on private land on mistaken advice of resident
Post by: b789 on October 14, 2024, 02:42:20 pm
For the time being, appeal to PPS as the Keeper (not the driver) with the following, verbatim:

Quote
I am the keeper of the vehicle and I dispute your 'parking charge'. I deny any liability or contractual agreement and I will be making a complaint about your predatory conduct to your client landowner.

As your Notice to Keeper (NtK) does not fully comply with ALL the requirements of PoFA 2012, you are unable to hold the keeper of the vehicle liable for the charge. Partial or even substantial compliance is not sufficient. There will be no admission as to who was driving and no inference or assumptions can be drawn. PPS has relied on contract law allegations of breach against the driver only.

The registered keeper cannot be presumed or inferred to have been the driver, nor pursued under some twisted interpretation of the law of agency. Your NtK can only hold the driver liable. PPS have no hope at POPLA, so you are urged to save us both a complete waste of time and cancel the PCN.

It will be rejected but they will issue a POPLA code where there is more chance of a successful appeal. Even if POPLA appeal fails, there is no obligation to pay the speculative invoice. It may go as far asa court claim which is easily defended if it ever went that far. That is a bridge to cross if we ever come to it, suffice it to say that we have a 99% success rate.
Title: Re: Parked on private land on mistaken advice of resident
Post by: eyalmms on October 14, 2024, 08:40:37 am
What about asking the management company/landowner to get it cancelled?
They acknowledge there was a lifting for the event, but refused to get involved as above!
Title: Re: Parked on private land on mistaken advice of resident
Post by: b789 on October 14, 2024, 07:48:53 am
What about asking the management company/landowner to get it cancelled?
Title: Re: Parked on private land on mistaken advice of resident
Post by: eyalmms on October 14, 2024, 07:29:52 am
I tried that before I came here. He's a resident who has authority on behalf the residents. He replied saying it's the driver's fault and "there's nothing I can do here".
(Which I presume is that he can't be bothered/doesn't what to)
Title: Re: Parked on private land on mistaken advice of resident
Post by: b789 on October 14, 2024, 07:20:44 am
Who is this “man who coordinates the parking on behalf of the residents”? Can “the woman who lives on the estate” ask this “man” to get the PCN cancelled?

No one pays PPS if they’ve come here for advice. Tell the keeper of the vehicle to try Plan A above first. If that doesn’t work, send the appeal below, as the Keeper. No mention of who was driving.

Quote
I am the keeper of the vehicle and I dispute your 'parking charge'. I deny any liability or contractual agreement and I will be making a complaint about your predatory conduct to your client landowner.

As your Notice to Keeper (NtK) does not fully comply with ALL the requirements of PoFA 2012, you are unable to hold the keeper of the vehicle liable for the charge. Partial or even substantial compliance is not sufficient. There will be no admission as to who was driving and no inference or assumptions can be drawn. PPS has relied on contract law allegations of breach against the driver only.

The registered keeper cannot be presumed or inferred to have been the driver, nor pursued under some twisted interpretation of the law of agency. Your NtK can only hold the driver liable. PPS have no hope at POPLA, so you are urged to save us both a complete waste of time and cancel the PCN.

When that gets rejected, come back for help with a POPLA appeal.
Title: Parked on private land on mistaken advice of resident
Post by: eyalmms on October 14, 2024, 01:31:38 am
Hi all
A woman lives on a private road with parking restrictions. There was an event on and she'd been informed that restrictions were being lifted for the event so informed the driver of my car they could park on the road outside her house.
Problem is, she thought the Saturday was part of the event too which it wasn't. The car was photographed at a time where the signs on the road state parking isn't allowed (based on the photos provided by the company). On hindsight turns out the lifting of restrictions was informal and she'd just received a text from the man who coordinates the parking on behalf of the residents.

I am wondering if there are any grounds to appeal on a technicality. For instance, the car was photographed by a warden but not issued with a ticket at the time. Instead I received a parking charge notice to my house issued 3 days later saying they'd got my details through the DVLA for pursuing an "outstanding" notice, which at the time of request this was not.

Would be grateful for any help. I have linked the sign, the notice, and the picture from the parking charge showing a nearby sign (mine is the car visible)

https://imgur.com/a/GuD2VVK