Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: eanp83 on October 13, 2024, 03:24:14 pm
-
Just going back to the original question.
You can't submit a second Stat Dec just because you ignored the outcome of the first one.
It's very clear that you have been misadvised along the way.
I don't believe there is anything you can do now other than pay. Not even the OOT application that Enceladus suggests.
And next time come here for proper advice.
One thing we haven't examined yet is >>> do these vehicles actually belong to you? i.e. do you hold the V5C for them are/were they hired/leased?
Do you personally own any vehicles at all?
-
Let's get back to PCN LJ20253810. On the 4th October 2022 the Chief Adjudicator ordered you to pay this PCN at £130. You had previously submitted a Statutory Declaration but failed to respond to the Adjudicator's request for evidence.
You didn't pay the £130 so it escalated. Why didn't you pay it?
It looks like you then received an Order for Recovery dated the 22nd May 2024 and responded by submitting a new SD dated 10th June 2024, which the TEC apparently failed to process. Or did they reject your application?
The bailiffs will return and if they can find a car that belongs to you parked anywhere in a public place then they'll clamp it, tow it away and then auction it. You don't have to let them into your residence, so don't or they'll try and seize your other property. They can't tow a car that doesn't belong to you, eg a hire car or leased, but they might well try it on. I don't know if a PHV might be exempt, you'll need somebody else to confirm the rules.
I believe you have nowhere to go except to pay the £515, to ward off further escalation. Doing so doesn't preclude you submitting your SD with the requested Out of Time application. But be aware that submitting a false declaration is a criminal offence and might backfire on you big time. It says so on the bottom of the form itself.
You can get further advice by contacting Bailiff Advice Online (https://bailiffadviceonline.co.uk/) and I suggest you do so immediately
-
PCN LJ23988879 = £380 outstanding is different car involved REG: KH15 ARX I would say is pretty much different history Shall I use a different post for this?
Yes please, I suggest you start a separate thread for this PCN. It's a different car and at a different stage of enforcement.
And please post up any documentation you have for this PCN in the new thread. And give us the history. In particular you should have a Notice of Enforcement from CDER. This should be for £280, not £380.
£130 = PCN LJ23988879
£65 = 50% Charge Certificate surcharge
£10 = TEC registration fee
£205 = sub-total
plus
£75 = Bailiff's compliance stage fee (https://bailiffadviceonline.co.uk/bailiff-fees/penalty-charge-notice-pcn) for Notice of Enforcement
£280 = Total
-
The "reminder" letter from CDER dated the 9th Sept 2024 shows that they're looking for a total of £895. There's £515 against the PCN we started with and a further £380 oustanding against ANOther unknown PCN.
The PCN number is not on the letter and I can't reconcile the £380. Perhaps you have an agreed payment plan and didn't keep up with the payments? Or what else has happened?
Thanks a lot for reading and your valuable comments £380 Amount belongs to another PCN. My apologies in advance but I am new in this kind of forums its really helpful every comment. I am not sure how it really works yet and I wonder if Do I have to reply to everyone?
No you don't have to reply to everyone unless you want to. However in most cases the members ask questions to establish and understand the facts. So if you want the best and most comprehensive advice then you are normally well advised to answer any reasonable question as best you can.
And just look at your situation. You started out by telling us CDER were trying to get you to pay £515 and that the TEC had failed to process a Statutory Declaration. When probed it turns out that CDER actually want £895. And there are at least two PCNs involved. And you have already had an SD referred to the Adjudicator who ordered you to pay the £130 penalty. You didn't pay and now the matter has escalated and the charges have ballooned.
Is the below correct? Are there any more PCNs?
PCN LJ20253810 = £515 outstanding
PCN LJ23988879 = £380 outstanding
I ask because the £380 doesn't correlate with any amount the bailiff could normally demand. The penalty charges have fixed amounts at various stages and the bailiffs have strict costs they can add when collecting the penalties. £380 outstanding for a PCN doesn't make sense unless there has been a part payment from you that's not mentioned. Also the combination of PCN LJ23988879 / VRM WA68XJU can't be found on the Lambeth site. Might there be a different car involved?
PCN LJ23988879 = £380 outstanding is different car involved REG: KH15 ARX I would say is pretty much different history Shall I use a different post for this?
-
The "reminder" letter from CDER dated the 9th Sept 2024 shows that they're looking for a total of £895. There's £515 against the PCN we started with and a further £380 oustanding against ANOther unknown PCN.
The PCN number is not on the letter and I can't reconcile the £380. Perhaps you have an agreed payment plan and didn't keep up with the payments? Or what else has happened?
Thanks a lot for reading and your valuable comments £380 Amount belongs to another PCN. My apologies in advance but I am new in this kind of forums its really helpful every comment. I am not sure how it really works yet and I wonder if Do I have to reply to everyone?
No you don't have to reply to everyone unless you want to. However in most cases the members ask questions to establish and understand the facts. So if you want the best and most comprehensive advice then you are normally well advised to answer any reasonable question as best you can.
And just look at your situation. You started out by telling us CDER were trying to get you to pay £515 and that the TEC had failed to process a Statutory Declaration. When probed it turns out that CDER actually want £895. And there are at least two PCNs involved. And you have already had an SD referred to the Adjudicator who ordered you to pay the £130 penalty. You didn't pay and now the matter has escalated and the charges have ballooned.
Is the below correct? Are there any more PCNs?
PCN LJ20253810 = £515 outstanding
PCN LJ23988879 = £380 outstanding
I ask because the £380 doesn't correlate with any amount the bailiff could normally demand. The penalty charges have fixed amounts at various stages and the bailiffs have strict costs they can add when collecting the penalties. £380 outstanding for a PCN doesn't make sense unless there has been a part payment from you that's not mentioned. Also the combination of PCN LJ23988879 / VRM WA68XJU can't be found on the Lambeth site. Might there be a different car involved?
-
The "reminder" letter from CDER dated the 9th Sept 2024 shows that they're looking for a total of £895. There's £515 against the PCN we started with and a further £380 oustanding against ANOther unknown PCN.
The PCN number is not on the letter and I can't reconcile the £380. Perhaps you have an agreed payment plan and didn't keep up with the payments? Or what else has happened?
Thanks a lot for reading and your valuable comments £380 Amount belongs to another PCN. My apologies in advance but I am new in this kind of forums its really helpful every comment. I am not sure how it really works yet and I wonder if Do I have to reply to everyone?
-
The "reminder" letter from CDER dated the 9th Sept 2024 shows that they're looking for a total of £895. There's £515 against the PCN we started with and a further £380 oustanding against ANOther unknown PCN.
The PCN number is not on the letter and I can't reconcile the £380. Perhaps you have an agreed payment plan and didn't keep up with the payments? Or what else has happened?
-
The evidence suggests you are in deep trouble:
https://londontribunals.org.uk/ords/pwslive/f?p=14952:70::INITIALISE::70:P70_CAS_REFNO,P70_PCN_REFNO,P70_RETURN_PAGE,P70_AST_CODE:1535713,2902458,60,APPEAL&cs=3tvzF_ZBS9RX0bjEhSwlUwothyiZNv7G9JmLyeAdzxZQKV8p2JgyWRfH_fWsaFTuiG8U7EaWn7DhnE7FCkP_t8Q
This shows that you have had your case adjudicated and were directed to provide evidence in support of a previous contention and submission to TEC:
The adjudicator required you to produce evidence to support your witness statement/declaration.
You have not responded and /or the penalty has not been paid.
Date 4 Oct. 2022!
You have been pursued by Lambeth possibly by letter and certainly by Charge Certificate and OfR which again you're looking to challenge, but your grounds are baseless unless you can show that you were not notified in writing of the above decision - or to put it another way, if the tribunal could show that they wrote to you then you could not prove the opposite.
I fear you might have costs awarded against you if you continue what appears to be vexatious behaviour.
But maybe the above is incorrect - which is why we need your full history as per NeilB.
This is NOT about the original contravention and PCN, this is history and you are not in a position to reopen the matter. This is about procedure and your, the council's, ETA's and TEC's(original involvement in 2022) actions.
-
The evidence suggests you are in deep trouble:
https://londontribunals.org.uk/ords/pwslive/f?p=14952:70::INITIALISE::70:P70_CAS_REFNO,P70_PCN_REFNO,P70_RETURN_PAGE,P70_AST_CODE:1535713,2902458,60,APPEAL&cs=3tvzF_ZBS9RX0bjEhSwlUwothyiZNv7G9JmLyeAdzxZQKV8p2JgyWRfH_fWsaFTuiG8U7EaWn7DhnE7FCkP_t8Q
This shows that you have had your case adjudicated and were directed to provide evidence in support of a previous contention and submission to TEC:
The adjudicator required you to produce evidence to support your witness statement/declaration.
You have not responded and /or the penalty has not been paid.
Date 4 Oct. 2022!
You have been pursued by Lambeth possibly by letter and certainly by Charge Certificate and OfR which again you're looking to challenge, but your grounds are baseless unless you can show that you were not notified in writing of the above decision - or to put it another way, if the tribunal could show that they wrote to you then you could not prove the opposite.
I fear you might have costs awarded against you if you continue what appears to be vexatious behaviour.
But maybe the above is incorrect - which is why we need your full history as per NeilB.
-
He first do Informal Appeal if is been rejected then I guess Formal appeal if is rejected again then wait for the OfR after that go for Statutory Declaration/Witness statement well you might know the process o you might imagine the whole history now.
NO, this is NOT the correct process.
You need to give us the full history of correspondence for the pcn concerned.
-
I been recommended a person who deal with PCN for a small fee ... I realised how he works
https://imgur.com/a/bEA8Lzv (https://imgur.com/a/bEA8Lzv)
- So did the recommended person (for a small fee) complete (fill in) your Statutory Declaration for you OR did you after realising how the recommended person works, having used the recommended person's services previously, complete (fill in) the Statutory Declaration yourself by copying his statement?
- TEC has indeed given you the correct advice that you must send proof to TEC via email, with the Subject: UNPROCESSED FORMS (PCN NUMBER), enclosing your original email to TEC, enclosing the attached form, proving you had submitted the correctly completed form in time to TEC. Subsequently contact TEC via telephone to notify TEC of your email (unprocessed form) including the time and date.
- I've been in the exact same situation, as you, so I hope that satisfies your question?
-
so I been recommended a person who deal with PCN for a small fee,
Looks like this is the source of your trouble. Looking at the SD you have shown us, it has in the "reasons" slot why you got the PCN, (I missed the sign due to traffic etc) . Sorry, but a Statutory Declaration has nothing to do with appealing against the PCN, it is a court document concerning your non-receipt of enforcement documents. It seems to me you need to rethink if this person is serving your interests.
-
Thanks for your response
Whole history is I work as Private hire driver, and due to the nature of my work PCN comes easily even if is not my fault and is really annoying sometimes so I been recommended a person who deal with PCN for a small fee, some occasions went ok I would say.
after a some PCNs I realised how he works, He first do Informal Appeal if is been rejected then I guess Formal appeal if is rejected again then wait for the OfR after that go for Statutory Declaration/Witness statement well you might know the process o you might imagine the whole history now. The only thing that I had to do is send a photo of any letter that comes and this person will deal with so at the stage of OfR send the PE3 Form in order to TEC cancel the OfR but on this time for some reason TEC didn't process it the SD even after receiving the confirmation of the reception.
thanks for your advice
please find attached some Docs that I found CDR as well.
https://imgur.com/a/bEA8Lzv (https://imgur.com/a/bEA8Lzv)
-
You've read Enceladus question but not replied?
Additionally, I'm surprised by the box you've ticked on the latest Statutory Declaration. Did you really register an appeal with the tribunal?
And is that what you also ticked last year?
It's impossible to pull the wool over the adjudicator's eyes on such things ---- or did you just tick the wrong box?
We need the whole history to make any sense of this otherwise it will end badly.
"PCN Details
PCN LJ20253810
Contravention date 09 Mar 2022
Contravention time 17:02:00
Contravention location Central Hill
Penalty amount GBP 130.00
Contravention Entering and stopping in a box junction
Direction Date 04 Oct 2022
Adjudicator By Order of the Chief Adjudicator
Review decision Direction made
Direction Full penalty charge notice amount stated to be paid within 28 days.
Reasons The adjudicator required you to produce evidence to support your witness statement/declaration.
You have not responded and /or the penalty has not been paid."
-
I see two emails from the TEC. What dates are they?
The Statutory Declaration looks like the copy that would have been included with an Order for Recovery (of unpaid penalty charge) insofar as parts are pre-completed. What dates are on the OfR or better yet please post up a scan or photo of the OfR. Just redact your name & address. Leave everyting else visible.
Please post up the CDER letter. Only redact your name & address
You best bet is likely to be to resubmit the SD with an Out of Time application. This will need to be carefully worded to maximise the chances, if any, of it being accepted. So get it scutinised here first.
The Statutory Register at the London Tribunals show that you were 'directed' to pay the PCN in October 2022 consequential to an earlier Statutory Declaration. Are you saying that you never received the email and/or letter from the Tribunal?
There's a 20 month gap between the Adjudicator's direction order and your latest Statutory Declaration. What's happened in between? Did the bailiff visit?
We need the whole history to make any sense of this otherwise it will end badly.
"PCN Details
PCN LJ20253810
Contravention date 09 Mar 2022
Contravention time 17:02:00
Contravention location Central Hill
Penalty amount GBP 130.00
Contravention Entering and stopping in a box junction
Direction Date 04 Oct 2022
Adjudicator By Order of the Chief Adjudicator
Review decision Direction made
Direction Full penalty charge notice amount stated to be paid within 28 days.
Reasons The adjudicator required you to produce evidence to support your witness statement/declaration.
You have not responded and /or the penalty has not been paid."
-
Afternoon everyone
I hope you having great weekend.
I've had a PCN from Lambeth I filled up the Form PE3 (Statutory Declaration/Witness statement) on time and then I sent to the following email tec@justice.gov.uk I've received the email confirmation but they didn't process it and now I received the Bailiff letter (CDER GROUP) to pay the amount of £515 if not they will seize my belongings.
I called to TEC about it but I just been told to send an email as UNPROCESSED DOCUMENT to the same email tec@justice.gov.uk I've sent them a couple email and they refuse to process it due to I haven't sent on time before but I did.
any advise would be greatly
appreciatedhttps://imgur.com/a/0pUzl1Q (https://imgur.com/a/0pUzl1Q)