Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Private parking tickets => Topic started by: bluebadgeholder on October 11, 2024, 05:46:44 pm
-
Don't assume that. There's a fair chance it isn't. Keep an eye out for further correspondence.
-
Hello. It has been many weeks now since the last letter from DCB Legal, so perhaps it is all over. I wanted to say thank you for supporting me through that awful time! I had a lot on at the time and it was the last straw, so thanks again for all that sage advice and saving me the money. You are good people :)
-
Thank you. I will ignore this and be in touch when I hear more.
-
That letter is a useless debt collect letter from DCBL. You can safely ignore it. They are powerless to do anything.
What you are waiting for is a Letter of Claim (LoC) that will be sent by their sister company, the bulk litigator, DCB Legal.
-
Please find attached latest from dcbl. Thank you. https://imgur.com/a/eNNEE9O
-
If its DCB Legal contacting you rather than DCBL that sounds like it could be a letter of claim. Please show us.
If they're using DCB Legal we will almost certainly be able to get the matter discontinued for you without the need for a hearing. But, even if the worst happened and you lost in court there will be no fine, a loss would generally be no more than £200.
-
Thank you. Today I have received the latyest from dcblegal. Pay within 30 days etc. I will ignore this.
Can you tell me please - because I did forget to display my badge is there a chance a court will uphold this and fine me a significant amount of money? Many thanks again
-
You are obviously confused by all this legalese and pontifications. My advice is as follows:
Ignore everything. Forget about appealing. The only way this PCN is going to be resolved will be when a county court claim for debt is issued to you. We can provide a suitable defence if/when the time comes.
A claim is easily defended with our assistance. No amount of appealing will ever get an Excel/VCS PCN cancelled.
What you need to be aware of, for now, is that any debt collector letters or reminders can be safely ignored. The debt collectors are powerless and rely on the recipients gullibility and ignorance to scare the into paying the now inflated (by a fake £70) charge.
Never, ever communicate with a debt collector. They cannot do anything except scare you. Now that you are aware of that fact, you can safely ignore them.
-
Yes in part because IMO the signs' compliance or otherwise with the Code of Practice is not a matter of law which is all that a court would consider, and the keeper is past the point of relying upon code failures (appealing to IAS) because the next formal step is legal proceedings. Whether the signs clearly convey what the law demands in order to form a contract is a different matter and therefore clear pictures are needed of the operator's evidence from their website as requested.
Similarly with the Notice to Keeper, THE legal document which must be served and compliant if the operator wishes to hold the keeper (who they do know)liable in lieu of the driver(who they don't). Hence why we need a clear version readable in every regard pl.
-
Thank you for the link to the legislation, but it is beyond me. I am worried. Can you tell me please - if the court upholds this against me will I be liable for a larger fine and costs? Thank you.
-
Hello Am I misunderstanding something or are b789 and H C Anderson not in agreement over this? Thank you
-
OP, the NTK is indistinct. Pl repost so that everything is clear.
The alleged breach occurred in Sept, therefore the 'old' CoP (for this operator) would apply.
By whether the signs comply with this CoP or not is immaterial* because your husband is past the time when he could challenge this with the creditor and therefore access the IAS which means that the next step for the creditor is court. And as I understand it, courts only consider the law and compliance or otherwise with a CoP carries little, if any, weight in their deliberations.
The next judicial step is court.
*- sometimes factors have a foot in both camps i.e. within a CoP and a condition of forming a contract.
As your husband was not the driver, then this matter is simply one of whether the creditor may hold the keeper liable for breach of a deemed contract entered into by the driver with the creditor.
Only the Protection of Freedoms Act allows such a transfer of liability and therefore it is compliance with this which counts. OP, here it is:
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2012/9/schedule/4/enacted
Much rests on the wording of the NTK, hence why we need to see a clear version (redact those parts as previously advised).
-
OK, so the signs are not compliant with their CoP. Can you get someone to assist you in downloading the evidential images they have on their website and show us please.
At this stage, there is no deadline. Ignore all debt collector or reminder letters.
-
You must ignore any and all debt collection letters or reminders. This will escalate into a county court claim at some stage but can be easily defended. We can cross that bridge when we come to it.
This previous advice remains Re. DCBL
-
These are all the car park signs. I parked in the same spot as when I got the ticket (I think, but it might have been one across) I hope you can see my car in relation to the distance of the signs.
https://imgur.com/a/KiVfMtM
https://imgur.com/a/8rI0YNV
https://imgur.com/a/ArSeqO9
https://imgur.com/a/KiVfMtM
https://imgur.com/a/WLiRjli
https://imgur.com/a/44BRY6P
https://imgur.com/a/U4mbBKt
https://imgur.com/a/0cxcwjj
https://imgur.com/a/aLrX24Y
https://imgur.com/a/UeFbL4G
https://imgur.com/a/vLHt5Fm
I hope that is what you need. I have now received a Notice Of Debt Recovery from dcbl dated 7 November and it states that I have 14 days from that date to pay or call them to discuss payment. Pleqaase advise. Many thanks again
-
Thank you for the prompt reply. Yes I will be the one on the keyboard, but in essence it will be my husband responding, unless there is any benefit to a new NTK to me, the driver.
I will go back and take more photos of signs in relation to the store etc. asap
I will get help to upload the photos that they have on their website of my car etc.
Thank you again.
-
We know you can act on his behalf. However, it must all be done in your husbands name if he is the Registered Keeper and the person to whom the NtK is addressed. If you prefer to handle it all in your name as the driver, you can use the form on the NtK to transfer liability to you as the driver. Once that is done, they will send a new PCN addressed to you.
Anything sent electronically that requires a signature can be signed by simply typing the name for the signature. It does not have to be a "wet" signature or even a facsimile of one.
The photo you have provided confirms that Excel have changed the signs in the car park since May 2022. It would be worthwhile getting an overview of the signs in and around the disabled bays.
Do you have or can you get any photos of the genera area around the disabled bays where you parked in front of Asda? In the GSV May 2022 photos the signage was not compliant as there were no signs containing the terms and conditions for parking that could be viewed without the driver needing to leave the vehicle, in order for someone with a disability to be able to make an informed decision on whether to park at the premises.
Also, if you can get someone to assist you with getting copies of the other evidential photos they have on their website that allegedly show the vehicle without a blue badge on display.
There is no deadline to meet. You are past any appeal deadline. You must ignore any and all debt collection letters or reminders. This will escalate into a county court claim at some stage but can be easily defended. We can cross that bridge when we come to it.
-
https://imgur.com/a/UeFbL4G
Link to picture of sign in the car park.
My husband is the owner and registered keeper. The blue badge is mine. Married 50 years I have his permission to act on his behalf.
Please tell me if there is a deadline I have to meet. thank you again.
-
...if the NTK is not addressed to you then you cannot 'appeal' unless you have the written authority of the addressee(the registered keeper).
Not strictly true. If it is not addressed to you, you can still do all the work for the appeal but it MUST be in the name of the person who the PCN is addressed to.
-
Nobody has said an appeal shouldn't be made. HC Andersen is clarifying that if/when an appeal is made, it must be submitted by the person to whom the parking charge notice is addressed.
-
Hello The other person posting replies has said that this is not the stage to appeal, so I'm confused. I have tried uploading the photo of the car park sign that is on the Excel website, relating to my "ticket" I don't even know if that worked. Is time of the essence here? Thank you
-
I say again, if the NTK is not addressed to you then you cannot 'appeal' unless you have the written authority of the addressee(the registered keeper). If you did then the creditor would be obliged to disregard - there are data protection niceties to be observed, even in this murky field of activity.
-
Is time of the essence here? I am not very well, please always let me know if I need to do certain things by a specific date. Thank you
-
Only photos,of,the actual signs currently at the car park.
-
One of the photos clearly shows the parking sign with it being Excel Parking. I can try and upload photo. Do you need the photos of my car too? I wouldn't know how to blank out the registration, but I could find out. Thanks again
-
OP, you first posted that your husband is the registered keeper. If so, you cannot appeal anything within the PoFA procedure, this must be the registered keeper.(they'd just bat anything back claiming data protection and their procedures). The keeper may authorise you in writing to act for them, but within the procedure they will remain the liable party.
-
Do you know how to download the images from the website and then post them here?
Ignore the reminder.
Can you get a clear photo of the signs at the car park. Looking at GSV pictures from 2022, the signs are all in the name of VCS, a completely separate company to Excel.
If the signs are still showing VCS as the creditor, then Excel has no lawful right to issue PCNs in it's own name.
If the signage at the car park clearly identifies Vehicle Control Services (VCS) as the operato, any contract for parking was made with VCS, not Excel Parking. Excel, being a separate legal entity, has no standing to issue a parking charge, as no contract exists between Excel and the driver.
You have to question whether Excel Parking has the authority to issue this charge. If the signage makes no reference to Excel, you would require proof of the contract between Excel and the landowner that grants them the right to manage and issue PCNs at this location. In the absence of such proof, Excel has no legal standing in this matter.
If the PCN has been issued by a different entity than the one referenced on the signage (VCS), this is misleading. This breach of transparency and fairness violates sections 62 and 68 of the Consumer Rights Act 2015.
The IPC Codes of Practice require operators to ensure signage is clear about which company is managing the site and issuing PCNs. In this case, if the signage only mentions VCS, not Excel Parking, it is a breach of the Code.
-
Hello
I have now been to the my parking charge website. There are photos of my car in a disability bay without the badge visible. I have recieved a further letter today. It says Final Reminder. Any advice is much appreciated. Thank you.
-
Thank you. I haven't clicked that link to the Excel website, because I was worried that I shouldn't! I will do and see if they have a better picture on there. I didn't know that not displaying the badge doesn't entitle them to "fine" me, thank you for that information. I will look and see what they have on the site.
-
Have you gone on the Excel website as though to appeal to see what other, if any, evidential photos they have of the vehicle parked in a disabled bay not showing a blue badge? Don't actually appeal at this stage.
The burden of proof is on Excel to prove that there was no blue badge on display. They would require photographic evidence that the vehicle was in a disabled bay and no BB was visible anywhere. Do they have that evidence?
An appeal, when we come to it, will show that you do have a blue badge and were entitled to park there. Not displaying a blue badge does not mean that you were not entitled to park there.
-
I hope this link to the NTK works!
https://imgur.com/a/vLHt5Fm
-
(https://www.ftla.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2FImgur.com&hash=6a083dcb45456004e3aaa6992eda10aca9ecacf6)
-
Thank you for your message. I have a photo of the NTK in my downloads and have reduced it by 80%, but I get the message that the upload folder is full. I have tried registering with Imgur, but it sends a message saying that it is not available in my area! I have tried the "insert an image" button above, but no joy. Can you help at all please? Many thanks again
You don't need to create an account to post with Imgur - the instructions in the 'READ THIS FIRST' thread should work without a need to register.
-
Hello
Did I read somewhere that a link to the car park from a google map is helpful? I have just managed to send that, but I do not have the "little blue and white square of paper" that was under my windscreen wiper. My husband thought it was a scam and put it in the recycling! I will continute to try and upload the NTK! Thanks again.
-
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ivybridge+Retail+Park/@51.4595246,-0.3342336,17z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m6!3m5!1s0x48760cf701432d65:0x8055985605d8cd28!8m2!3d51.4595246!4d-0.3316587!16s%2Fg%2F1hd_gpzc9?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI0MTAwOS4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D
-
Thank you for your message. I have a photo of the NTK in my downloads and have reduced it by 80%, but I get the message that the upload folder is full. I have tried registering with Imgur, but it sends a message saying that it is not available in my area! I have tried the "insert an image" button above, but no joy. Can you help at all please? Many thanks again
-
Welcome. No one pays Excel or the other scammers. Do you still have the "little square note" that was under the windscreen wiper? It is a scam but a legitimate one, for now.
I would forget about appealing it with either Excel or the IAS. You may be past the appeals process stage anyway.
If you can, it would help if we can see a picture of the "little square note" and also the Notice to Keeper (NtK) that was sent a few days later. You will need to redact your personal info and any PCN number and the VRM. Leave everything else visible, especially all the dates and times.
The Parking Charge Notice (PCN) has been wrongly issued and therefore Excel cannot relay on the provisions of The Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA) to hold the keeper liable. They have no idea who the driver is, unless the keeper tells them, inadvertently or otherwise.
As the appeals process time is likely passed, you are going to receive reminders and eventually Debt Recovery Agent (DRA) letters with the amount increased to £160-£170. You can safely ignore all those reminders and DRA letters. Never, ever, communicate with a DRA. They are only employed on a no-win, no-fee basis to try and scare you into paying up. They are in fact powerless to do anything. Just use their letters as kindling or line a cat litter tray with them.
We will put together a complaint for you to send to Excel, for what it's worth, to see if they will cancel but don't hold your breath.
This will only be over after they have issued a county court claim which is very easy to defend and is 99% likely to be struck out, discontinued or won, some time early next year. You really shouldn't have to worry about this and we will assist you all the way. We do this many times a day.
Please read this thread for instruction on how to post images:
READ THIS FIRST - Private Parking Charges Forum guide (https://www.ftla.uk/private-parking-tickets/read-this-first-private-parking-charges-forum-guide/)
-
thank you :)
-
This is a private parking invoice and I've ask for move to the private parking tickets section.
-
Hello
I am new as of 3 minutes ago and cannot see where to post this so I'm putting it here and hoping!
I parked at a small shopping mall near home. I park there often. I recently became a Blue Badge holder. The 2 spaces are always full, I never use them. Just as I was about to park one became free! I parked in the Disability space and forgot to display my new badge! Two days later there was a little square note under my windscreen wiper. I couldn't think where it was from and I thought it might be a scam = it was about 8cms x 8 cms blue and white and said "it has been noted that you parked here".
In the post some days later my husband (registered keeper) got a PCN Notice to Keeper from Excel Parking. Issue date 20/09/2024
I phoned ASDA, the store I had used, and customer seervice said tha it isn't a company they can waive the fine for. I went into the small ASDA, but the manager is only there in the mornings. Mornings are very difficult for me, but I was going to go back. I have been unwell and am dealing with it now. I thought perhaps I should just pay it because I did park in the bay and not display the badge, but now I see it is past the 14 days they say it is "Half price" - so will be £100 grrrrr.
I looked into the mall owners, but their website gives no details unless you want to rent a unit.
On Money Saving Expert I read that if it was a genuine error it could be considered unreasonable.
I thought that I would use the template letter, but I am having trouble with changing it. Also, should I post it or fill out an online something? I think I read not to tell them the registered keeper's name and address. Is that so? The problem is I started looking at this 21st September and have been ill since and have forgotten what I read!!!
Any advise as to my options would be sincerely appreciated.