Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Private parking tickets => Topic started by: FieldMan on October 09, 2024, 11:14:12 pm
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Never, ever, ever, contact the debt collectors. They are not a party to any of this and they are powerless to do anything. Ignore DCBL. Do not attempt to contact them. You are wasting your time even thinking about them.
As for sending something by post, signed for… another waste of money. All you have proof of is that it has not been delivered. About as useful as poke in the arm with a sharp stick. If you really insist on posting something then get a free Certificate of Posting from any post office. If sent first class, it is deemed delivered by the second working day. It’s all you need.
DCBL cannot “send” anything to court. Ignore them. If you get a Letter of Claim (LoC) from their sister company, DCB Legal, that’s a different matter. A real LoC will give you 30 days to pay before they can issue a claim. Anything with less than 30 days to pay is simply a debt collection letter and can be safely ignored.
They rely on the low-hanging fruit on the gullible tree to capitulate at the threat of litigation and use scary words such as “CCJ” and “bailiff” to make those ignorant of the law capitulate and pay up.
The BPA will not get involved or care until you have exhausted the complaints process with CEL.
Ibis are fobbing you off. It is worth reminding him that they are jointly and severally liable for the actions of their agents. If they say they can’t do anything about their contracted agent, ask them who is the idiot that signed the contract. Are Ibis the monkey or the organ-grinder?
Carry on with the complaints process and keep on at Ibis. Ignore all debt collector letters and come back if/when you receive an actual LoC.
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Hi all,
So a small update.
I had my neighbour go through all his stuff to find the original letter NtK and he found it last week!
He now also received a letter from debt collector DCBL, with a payment to be done in 14 days before they send it to court!
https://imgur.com/a/S5tn2bq
I have since:
1. Contacted IBIS hotel. They said these matters are in their subcontractor's hands, and can't do much more. Further explanations by email with included cc managers on the venue have not been answered. Will attempt another time this week.
2. I Filed a formal complaint by post to Civil Enforcement using the mail address as noted on their letters. Had is sent as "signed on delivery", but the status after a week is still "not received" on Royal Mail's website.
3. I filed a formal complaint using Civil Enforcement Website, this got accepted and acknowledged at least and I now have something of a reference number. But could take a month to be replied to.
4. I filed a complaint to the BPA (British Parking Association) could take months for this to have a result.
5. I sent an email to the debt collectors stating all the above, all the processes that we are still in with Civil Enforcement, and that they are not a party we are in communication with at the moment.
It's adding quite a bit of anxiety to my life at the moment, as I started the appeal process for my Neighbour I now feel quite responsible that CE is escalating things, even though I can't see any point where we could have done any better... From a communications point of view.
I will keep updating here if anything changes.
Thanks, everybody.
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The contact address is at the bottom of CEL's reminder letter.
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I doubt that telling them off for not sending a NtK would make any difference in any case.
What? Nobody has suggested "telling them off for not sending an NtK" - we are saying you have already been sent an NtK through the post - and as this details the alleged basis of the claim against you, we could do with seeing it.
I have had good experience with various PCN issuers private and council in the past.
That is good, but you have been immensely fortunate - if that were commonplace, this forum would not need to exist.
Since we have clear evidence of payment, if this goes to a debt collection would this be taken into account, perhaps this is better as at least there might be a human at the other end of the line? Can debt collection even legally begin if there are unresolved appeals? Without a POPLA I can't even escalate this further...
Yes it can - at present this is a largely unregulated industry. Debt collectors are even less reasonable than parking firms - they don't care about any conversation that doesn't involve payment.
You seem intent on speaking to someone via phone - this is generally a bad idea. If you communicate in writing, you have a record of everything said (or not said, if you don't get a response). With a phone call, you have nothing.
I don't understand how companies such as Civil Enforcement Limited are allowed to operate in this country, no contact details, only offshore shells.
Every PCN I've seen from Civil Enforcement contains contact details - at the bare minimum their registered office address at which they can be contacted. In an ideal world such companies wouldn't be operating, but we advise on the nature of things as they are, rather than as we may wish them to be.
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You need to understand that you are not dealing with some woke corporate firm with a fluffy customer service ethos. Get it into your head that you are dealing with a firm of ex-clamper thugs who are only interested in how low you hang as fruit on the gullible tree.
By making it easy to pick you off that tree, you are not helping yourself. We know what we are dealing with here. We deal with this multiple times every day. We know the procedures and how to beat these scammers.
So, please answer the original question... where is the original NtK? We are not interested in any reminders or debt collector letters. Only the original NtK will do.
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You should stop trying to phone these people, they do not care a jot about your circumstances and just want your moneu.
Debt collectors have no powers and should be ignored, do NOT phone them.
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Hi MickR and DWMB2,
I understand a bit better now the need for a NtK, however, since Civil Enforcement has not replied in any way to my initial and second appeal which I did months ago, I doubt that telling them off for not sending a NtK would make any difference in any case. They just don't respond. They seem to rely on people just paying at some point to stay out of the big trouble. I have had good experience with various PCN issuers private and council in the past. When you show evidence, and explain the situation, often & quickly the case is closed.
I don't have a scan of the original PCN but I can try to raffle it up.
Since we have clear evidence of payment, if this goes to a debt collection would this be taken into account, perhaps this is better as at least there might be a human at the other end of the line? Can debt collection even legally begin if there are unresolved appeals? Without a POPLA I can't even escalate this further...
I don't understand how companies such as Civil Enforcement Limited are allowed to operate in this country, no contact details, only offshore shells. All money made from these PCN's to through back doors all over the world. And somewhere somebody is lying in a swimming pool drinking margaritas from them....
But okay that is a different matter.
I have sent an email to IBIS Luton asking for their assistance. Fingers crossed.
Thanks everybody.
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There was no issue of NtK, as far as I know. Just a PCN
Was this parking charge notice (PCN) issued by post, and addressed to the keeper? If so, it is a notice to keeper (whether it is compliant such that it could hold the registered keeper liable is another matter).
We need to see that document.
Civil Enforcement are unlikely to care how strong your case is. You're not dealing with a reasonable firm.
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You should note you have made mistakes in the way youve gone about this. the important one in particular is telling them who was driving whatever "evidence" you have.
unfortunate you chose to appeal before coming here.
your comments about Civil Enforcement being a shell company doesn't sound right to me.
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Hi b789,
Thanks for your reply.
There was no issue of NtK, as far as I know. Just a PCN.
I have not contacted IBIS now, which I will do this morning. I have appealed before directly to the PCN issuer, especially if I have clear proof of payment and there is some sort of confusion that can be easily fixed. I believe this case is because I have a clear parking ticket, dated, timed, and on the car reg. I am just finding the lack of ways of communicating with Civil Enforcement a problem. I found out this is a shell company split over 5 countries on all the continents. So I am going to stop trying to find an owner/contact.
Thanks,
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What has the hotel said about getting the PCN cancelled?
The most important document we need to see is the original Notice to Keeper (NtK). Please show us that. All the other stuff you’ve shown, apart from the content of the appeal, is not required.
You have obviously appealed as the driver rather than the keeper which probably complicates things, but we’ll know better once we see the NtK.
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This is a private parking invoice and I've asked for move to correct section.
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Hi Everybody,
I am trying to sort out this PCN for my Ukrainian Neighbour. I try to help him here and then with admin but at the moment I'm not sure what the best course of action is without causing additional problems for him.
He received a PCN from Civil Enforcement a few weeks after parking at Luton airport in the middle of the night. He kept the ticket as proof of parking, which looks like a valid ticket and payment, so I appealed on the 6th of July 2024. A month or so later he receives a reminder and an increased penalty. I appealed again through their website on the 24th of August asking them to reply to the original appeal (included as an attachment in the second appeal) and I flagged that the increase in the penalty is against their policy as noted on their website.
This week my neighbor received a "Final" notice, again, an increase in penalty. However, He has not heard back from Civil Enforcement.
I can appeal again, trying to trigger their internal systems to review his case, but I fear it will keep escalating. I have appealed to various PCNs in the past and I always got some reply within a month or so. Civil Enforcement only silence... On their website the status of the appeal is "received".
The phone numbers listed on the website point to an online payment system, there is not a single number I can find anywhere so I can talk to a real person. They must have some people working there in a building with phones and email addresses.
Does anybody have some experience dealing with this company? Any tips or advice is greatly appreciated.
Some images/proofs if required:
https://imgur.com/a/iD6hOlB
Thanks,