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Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: EveningStar on October 09, 2024, 12:13:30 pm

Title: Re: 52J PCN for violating restriction that is part of Healthy Neighbourhood Schemes
Post by: Incandescent on October 10, 2024, 10:19:26 am
I do feel that I did not break the intent of the Healthy Neighbourhood Scheme. HNS was designed to prevent cut through traffic but my journey took me only to Elmers Road, and I did not cut through.

The reduction I received is certainly welcome and if the consensus is that this is best outcome, I may have to accept.
 
As I said, you have the right in law to take them to London Tribunals. However concensus here is that you are unlikely to win.
Title: Re: 52J PCN for violating restriction that is part of Healthy Neighbourhood Schemes
Post by: EveningStar on October 10, 2024, 09:27:21 am
I do feel that I did not break the intent of the Healthy Neighbourhood Scheme. HNS was designed to prevent cut through traffic but my journey took me only to Elmers Road, and I did not cut through.

The reduction I received is certainly welcome and if the consensus is that this is best outcome, I may have to accept.
 
Title: Re: 52J PCN for violating restriction that is part of Healthy Neighbourhood Schemes
Post by: Incandescent on October 09, 2024, 11:39:56 pm
+1
The signage is better than I expected to see, and frankly, if you take them to London Tribunals with the full PCN penalty in play, I don't think you would win. TBH you've done very well to get one of the PCNs cancelled.
Title: Re: 52J PCN for violating restriction that is part of Healthy Neighbourhood Schemes
Post by: stamfordman on October 09, 2024, 11:25:08 pm
My feeling is pay for this one and be thankful not to pay for two.
Title: Re: 52J PCN for violating restriction that is part of Healthy Neighbourhood Schemes
Post by: Incandescent on October 09, 2024, 04:55:42 pm
There is a warning sign shortly before the turn, (see my post with the GSV links). I call these satnav-assisted PCNs !
Title: Re: 52J PCN for violating restriction that is part of Healthy Neighbourhood Schemes
Post by: stamfordman on October 09, 2024, 04:43:19 pm
The other PCN is closed so not online but this is the live one and on its own we would probably look into visibility of signage turning left and also check tribunal cases.

(https://i.imgur.com/rpowyZs.gif)
Title: Re: 52J PCN for violating restriction that is part of Healthy Neighbourhood Schemes
Post by: EveningStar on October 09, 2024, 02:49:54 pm
Fatal in London to rely solely on satnav, it is never up-to-date.  "but it is, I only uodated it yesterday" do I hear you say ? Yes, but is the date base that supplied the satnav up-to-date ?

To be clear, I use Google Maps, but I am not sure if they pick up these restrictions.
Title: Re: 52J PCN for violating restriction that is part of Healthy Neighbourhood Schemes
Post by: Incandescent on October 09, 2024, 02:45:49 pm
Fatal in London to rely solely on satnav, it is never up-to-date.  "but it is, I only uodated it yesterday" do I hear you say ? Yes, but is the date base that supplied the satnav up-to-date ?
Title: Re: 52J PCN for violating restriction that is part of Healthy Neighbourhood Schemes
Post by: EveningStar on October 09, 2024, 02:24:39 pm
It's a simple small zone as these go and that they cancelled one is a good result.

There may be issues with the PCN and their replies that could be challenged if you post them.

I assume you saw the signage.

(https://i.imgur.com/b2ALNYB.png)

As the area was new to me, I was a bit focused on following the SatNav. I have a couple of similar restrictions close to my residence. These are restrictions around schools and I was a bit unaware of these type of restrictions.

I tried to attach the rejection letter, but unable to upload (only 300kb file). Will try to figure this out.
Title: Re: 52J PCN for violating restriction that is part of Healthy Neighbourhood Schemes
Post by: EveningStar on October 09, 2024, 02:14:46 pm

I am new to the area and simply followed my SatNav. I entered the road and parked a few houses down the road and returned.

If you like to see the video, please go to:
https://viewmypcn.co.uk/Default.aspx

CR21091390 and WJ68LWK
CR21091415 and WJ68LWK






Title: Re: 52J PCN for violating restriction that is part of Healthy Neighbourhood Schemes
Post by: stamfordman on October 09, 2024, 01:10:57 pm
It's a simple small zone as these go and that they cancelled one is a good result.

There may be issues with the PCN and their replies that could be challenged if you post them.

I assume you saw the signage.

(https://i.imgur.com/b2ALNYB.png)
Title: Re: 52J PCN for violating restriction that is part of Healthy Neighbourhood Schemes
Post by: Incandescent on October 09, 2024, 12:43:12 pm
Please read this and update your thread as necessary: -
https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/

Quote
Do you see a basis to go and argue my case against the council?

None whatsoever from what you have told us so far, I'm afraid and sorry if this isn't what you want to hear.  This zone will have an unrestricted entry point so traders and couriers can access the properties within it, and you should have used this albeit it would be a slightly longer drive. Whoever you were visiting should have advised you of this zone.
However, there may be a defence if we can see the video. This will be on their website and accessed using PCN Number and car registration, so please supply these or download the video and post it here.

Anyway, assuming you drove in via Blackhorse Lane, here is the warning sign for a left turn: -
https://maps.app.goo.gl/HDPTerVW3DUGXKLF7
and here is a warning sign for a right turn: -
https://maps.app.goo.gl/5k4XfkxigPBZ3wzw7
and here are the actual signs you drove past: -
https://maps.app.goo.gl/yFgaxzvHSeEsqPi66
no times, so the restriction applies 24x7.  The signs mean "No Entry for motor vehicles" except what is shown in the box.

Stroud Road has no signs, so would seem to be the way into and out of the zone
https://maps.app.goo.gl/NvFVFiLcffBT96Zg8

Woodside Road is No Entry as it is one-way only.

You haven't said, but were you using satnav ?
Title: 52J PCN for violating restriction that is part of Healthy Neighbourhood Schemes
Post by: EveningStar on October 09, 2024, 12:13:30 pm
Hi

I visited a property in Elmer's Road in Croydon. I arrived at 11.45hrs, visited the property and left the street 1205hrs. The road has the following sign on either side:

yellow rectangle with a red bordered white circle containing images of a motorcycle and a car to indicate that there is no access for motorised vehicles


I was served two PCNs. I approached the council and informed them that

1) I did not use the street as a cut through to reach others.
2) I was visiting a property in the road and provided proof of appointment.

Despite proofs, the Council opted to go ahead and charge me for one and withdrew the second PCN.

The justification to introduce restriction by Council is (as per letter):

This road restriction forms part of Croydon's Healthy Neighbourhood Scheme, designed and introduced to reduce traffic that comes from vehicles using the streets as a cut through to reach others. Council's aim is to create networks of streets for people to safely travel through on foot, bicycle or by bus.

My question to you is as follows:

Do you see a basis to go and argue my case against the council? Am I being a bit greedy?