Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: joshua.rowen.press@googlemail.com on October 04, 2024, 12:15:30 pm
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No. But if you're considering lying then on your own head be it.
However, if it's the truth then that's it.
If an owner does not receive a NOR and, as required, the authority refers the contravention to the adjudicator for determination i.e. an appeal, then the adjudicator has the power to require you to produce your representations, but this is just a formality.
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So the clause about perjury, and a false testament is just an empty threat to deter you from fibbing?
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What if this is the case and my declaration is challenged?
TEC have no power to do this.
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Last post was in reply to ‘estevenin’.
By long drawn out exceptions, I mean scenarios where the deceleration hasn’t been regarded as sufficient proof.
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Yes would be great if senior members could confirm, and explain whether there have been any long drawn out exceptions.
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Thank you again.
I presume it’s ok for the form to be witnessed by any lawyer/commissioner for oaths? It doesn’t need to be specifically done in the county court.
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Hello,
I’m still yet to receive the order of recovery, however, I’ve just read through another’s users post on a similar situation that seemed to advanced unfavourably.
After sending his witnessed declaration that he had not received ´notice of rejection’, he was asked to prove he didn’t receive post? How is it possible to prove such a thing?
I had done that in the past. Same case as yours, waited for the order of recovery, went to the county court. They asked me to prove that I didn't receive it, and the proof was a "3 lign lette"r where I wrote and signed something like "I did not receive the letter". They then had me swear on the bible if I remember correctly, and that was it.
The proof IS your statement I believe. That is just my own experience, other senior members will be able to confirm that or not.
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Just to add.
You can have your SD witnessed FOC at any convenient County Court. Phone and check opening hours first and make an appointment if necessary. Else a Solicitor or a Magistrate's Court will witness but charge £5-10. Don't sign the SD until you're in the presence of the witness.
Scan the completed Statutory Declaaration to a PDF file and attach it to an email to the TEC. Put Statutory Declaration and the PCN number in the email subject line. The email address is on the SD form. You should get an acknowledgement receipt by email within a few minutes. That way it won't be lost in the post.
+1
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Just to add.
You can have your SD witnessed FOC at any convenient County Court. Phone and check opening hours first and make an appointment if necessary. Else a Solicitor or a Magistrate's Court will witness but charge £5-10. Don't sign the SD until you're in the presence of the witness.
Scan the completed Statutory Declaaration to a PDF file and attach it to an email to the TEC. Put Statutory Declaration and the PCN number in the email subject line. The email address is on the SD form. You should get an acknowledgement receipt by email within a few minutes. That way it won't be lost in the post.
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Relax, this is not a murder trial ! All official correspondence and statutory documents are sent by normal 1st Class post and failure to arrive is commonplace in London. The plain fact is you did not receive the Letter of Rejection, end of.
So all you now have to do is fill in the form, tick the box for
"I made representations about the penalty charge to the local authority concerned within 28 days of the service of the Notice to Owner/Enforcement Notice/Penalty Charge Notice, but did not receive a rejection notice"
Nothing is needed in the "Reasons" box
Get it witnessed and sent off. Best to send via email.
Remember when filling in the form that the " Applicant" is Camden Council, not you. You are the "Respondent".
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Hi guys, statutory declaration form received.
Apologies in advance if this question has already been answered. However, it’s a little unclear to me, and quite frankly the issue makes me nervous.
I didn’t receive the notice of rejection. However, that doesn’t mean that it wasn’t delivered. Potentially taken in confusion by a neighbour, or accidentally thrown away by my cleaner.
I imagine the notice of rejection is delivered by Royal Mail recorded delivery? What if this is the case and my declaration is challenged? I’ll have no proof except my word against a letter that may have well been delivered and lost/missplaced. After all, the other correspondence arrived without issue (the initial PCN and the latest document with the declaration form attached )
Excuse me if this comes across as paranoia. I just don’t want to risk the potential of this being escalated any further.
Thank you if you are able to offer any further assistance on this subject.
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Price is still at £195
Thank you for the further advice.
PCN : CU67521373
REG: YG69AVZ
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OP, as has been stated at least twice now, ifyou submit a SD to the Traffic Enforcement Centre in time then the OfR and Charge Cert WILL BE CANCELLED, it's the law.
As you now have another PCN you can see the relevant legislation - it's printed at the top of page 1.
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukla/2003/3/schedule/1/enacted
Invalid notices
7(1)This paragraph applies where—
(a)a county court makes an order under paragraph 6 above; [the OfR]
(b)the person against whom it is made makes a statutory declaration complying with sub-paragraph (2) below; and
(c)that declaration is, before the end of the period of 21 days beginning with the date on which notice of the county court’s order is served on him, served on the county court which made the order.[submitting in proper form in time].....
.....
8)Subject to sub-paragraphs (3) above and (10) below[not relevant here], where a statutory declaration is served under sub-paragraph (1)(c) above—
(a)the order of the court shall be deemed to have been revoked;
(b)the charge certificate shall be deemed to have been cancelled;
...
11)Where a declaration has been served under sub-paragraph (2)(b) or (c) above[this is you], the enforcing authority shall refer the case to the traffic adjudicator who may give such direction as he considers appropriate.
Your actions now:
Contact the council to see if an OfR has been issued, if so what's its date?
Alternatively, as said by others look online and check the outstanding sum. If £205 then it's been registered.
Come back here with the answer.
Remember, 21 days. Don't forget, put it in a drawer, procrastinate or otherwise!
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Check the amount outstanding for the PCN on Camden's website. Is it still £195 or has it risen to £205? The £10 difference is the Traffic Enforcement Centre's registration fee and is an indicator that the Order for Recovery has been authorised and sent.
You cannot submit a Statutory Declaration or a Witness Statement until the charge has been registered at the TEC. So long as the SD is submitted within the time limit then the TEC will order the OfR revoked and the Charge Certificate cancelled.
There's a guide here for your situation (https://www.ftla.uk/announcements/charge-certificates-london-local-authorities-and-tfl-act-2003-london-l-1805/).
PS.
Please post up the vehicle reg and the PCN number since you no longer have the PCN.
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I’ve just read through another’s users post
Please to provide a link to that thread.
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Hello,
I’m still yet to receive the order of recovery, however, I’ve just read through another’s users post on a similar situation that seemed to advanced unfavourably.
After sending his witnessed declaration that he had not received ´notice of rejection’, he was asked to prove he didn’t receive post? How is it possible to prove such a thing?
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Thanks again for the generous guidance. I will proceed as recommended, and will keep everybody updated with my progress.
Ironically after not receiving a PCN for a long while (prior to the one discussed), I received another one from another council yesterday for exactly the same offense (driving through a pedestrian zone). I will post about it in a separate topic. It’s not easy to drive in London these days! It’s so easy to miss these pedestrian zone signs, as they’re not often well displayed…they feel like a really money making trap to be honest. Often the roads they are placed on are completely quiet during the controlled hours, not a pedestrian in sight.
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The case should then be referred to the independent adjudicator at the London Tribunals for direction on how to proceed. Likely the Adjudicator will order that the matter is to be heard as an appeal or the adjudicator might order the Council to re-serve the NoR.
But there are standing directions on this, issued by the tribunal in 2016.
In a case where you didn't receive the rejection the the council must send you a copy. You can then decide if you wish to proceed to tribunal.
Where the standing directions fail is that that they don't define if you can pay the discount if it had been offered in the original rejection. It remains an interesting bone of contention.
But at the moment you don't have any choice but to make the Statutory Declaration, otherwise you will be liable for £205.
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There's a guide for your situation here (https://www.ftla.uk/announcements/charge-certificates-london-local-authorities-and-tfl-act-2003-london-l-1805/).
Wait for the Order for Recovery which will raise the amount due by the £10 court fee to a total of £205. Complete the Statutory Declaration form which will be included. Tick the box that says "I made representations about the penalty charge to the local authority concerned within 28 days of the service of the Notice to Owner/Enforcement Notice/Penalty Charge Notice, but did not receive a rejection notice". Only tick the one box. Don't sign the form as yet.
For the purposes of this form you are the respondent and the Council is the applicant.
You need to have the SD witnessed. Sign the form in front of the witness. This can be done FOC at any convenient County Court. Phone and check opening hours and make an appointment if necessary. Else a Solicitor can witness but will charge £5-£10.
Scan the completed and signed form to a PDF and attach it to an email to the Traffic Enforcement Centre at Northampton County Court. You should get an acknowledgement receipt within a few minutes.
The TEC will process your SD and provided it was submitted within the time limit the court will order the Order for Recovery revoked and the Charge Certificte cancelled. The PCN will not be cancelled. So you will be put back to where you were when the Notice of Rejection went missing.
The case should then be referred to the independent adjudicator at the London Tribunals for direction on how to proceed. Likely the Adjudicator will order that the matter is to be heard as an appeal or the adjudicator might order the Council to re-serve the NoR.
If you lose the appeal then you would be liable for the full penalty charge of £130. If you win then you pay nothing.
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Thank so much for your detailed reply.
What I’m trying to understand is whether it’s straight forward procedure to inform that the Traffic Enforcement Center after my ‘order for recovery’ comes through, that I didn’t not receive a ‘rejection of appeal’ letter/email or any further correspondence after the initial PCN. Whether after sending this information they will rescind the extra charges and give me the opportunity to read the terms my rejection was based on, and chose the fight on or pay the PCN at the original discounted rate.
From what I’ve read there seems to be an unpredictability about this process, which seems unfair as the penalty fee was being raised unbeknownst to me. As I was waiting upon further correspondence after my initial appeal.
I hope this makes sense. Thank you again to all have helped me on this topic. This forum is an amazing support.
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All adjudicators in the UK are independent bodies that come under the justice departments of the government concerned, so can be considered "independent". That doesn't mean they are necessarily totally logical; over the decades, (and some adjudicators have been there for decades), we have seen adjudicators ignore theie previous adjudications for an identical case ! And some get it plain wrong. However there is a Review process if the appellant considers the adjudicator has failed in his duty to adjudicate fairly and according to law. DO be aware, though that adjiudicators cannot accept appeals based on mitigation; the High Court ruled on that quite some time ago.
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In reference to this:
‘If the ground is that the Notice of Rejection or a decision from the adjudicator was not received, the Enforcement Authority must refer the statutory declaration to the adjudicator who will decide what will happen next.’
Is the adjudicator independent or part of Camden council. This seems to cast doubt on whether I will be able to revive the initial rejection of my appeal and have an opportunity to challenge it or pay the reduced fine/
Many Thanks again.
JP
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Hi, yes I believe so.
I received the original PCN back in July, I may well have stored away in a drawer but couldn’t find it on a first look yesterday . It’s not unlikely it’s been thrown away.
Since then I haven’t received any further post or email contact from Camden until I wrote them to follow up this morning.
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Are you telling us everything?
You no longer have the PCN - why?
You haven't received two letters - rejection and charge certificate.
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Thank you.
I didn’t receive the PCN for a charge of £195 in the post, I discovered that by looking up my PCN on the Camden website as I hadn’t received any update.
I’m not necessarily going to challenge this rejection at a tribunal if I don’t have appropriate grounds. I’d have to see it first. I’m more concerned at not being able to pay it at the discounted rate, which is normally the case if a PCN is rejected.
The original PCN was indeed sent to the correct address. I cannot post it as i no longer have it and haven’t been sent anything in the post since. All I have received is an email receipt of my initial challenge, and my most recent correspondence with Camden.
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+1
Also see the appropriate guide from this list
https://www.ftla.uk/announcements/
Please post the PCN first page (only redact yr name & address).
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Have you had the charge certificate for £195 in the post?
Any problems with post - and was the PCN sent to the exact correct address?
Camden is right - you need to wait for the order for recovery and make a statutory declaration that you didn't get a rejection - this will get the case referred to the tribunal.
You can't get a CCJ.
See process:
https://www.londontribunals.gov.uk/eat/understanding-enforcement-process/moving-traffic-pcn-enforcement-process
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Hello all,
I received a PCN for driving down a street with a timed restriction for schools. I appealed on the grounds that i couldn’t see the sign as it was not positioned clearly in sight for drivers entering the restricted road. I’m sorry i no longer have the paper work for the original PCN.
I received an email receipt for my appeal informing me that the PCN was on hold until they reviewed my appeal.
(Submission Date/Time: 05/07/2024 00:28:08)
After a long time had passed. I had received no further or email correspondence or anything in the post. I thought it best to see what if anything had been updated online. To my shock the fine had been raised to £195, with no notice of my rejected appeal.
I immediately wrote to Camden who replied this morning:
‘I have had a look at your case notes and I can see that on the 9th of August the following letter was sent to your address;
“NOTICE OF REJECTION OF REPRESENTATIONS AGAINST PENALTY CHARGE NOTICE”
You have to appeal to London Tribunals, PO Box 10598, Nottingham, NG6 6DR’
I had received no such letter. Informed the parking depart at Camden that this was the case. To which they replied:
‘ Hi Joshua.
I advise you to wait for the ‘Order of Recovery’ which is due to be issued next week. You can then make an application to the Traffic Enforcement Centre on the grounds that you didn't receive the Notice of Rejection. Once they have accepted the request we can revert the PCN back the status before the Charge Certificate was issued. The other option is to pay the PCN.’
I’m happy to follow their instructions. However, I am worried about the implications of the ‘order of recovery’, and also how I can prove that I didn’t receive the notice of rejection from Camden. Hopefully this will just be a straightforward scenario where I send them a letter informing that no notice of rejection had been received, and I will get the chance to review the grounds of the originally rejected appeal, and decide whether to pay the discounted fine or challenge the PCN at an independent tribunal.
Does an ‘order of recovery’ mean I’m liable to a CCJ, or any further penalties? How can I prove that no letter of rejection was received ?
Thanks in advance for any help given on this topic.
JP