Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: fowid44232 on September 29, 2024, 04:26:50 pm
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To bring everyone up to date.
The Appeal to London Tribunals was started on 2 January 2025.
The in-person hearing was listed for today at 2pm.
On Monday I checked the tribunal portal and found a Do Not Contest form had been filed so that is a win by default.
The Grounds of the Appeal were short and unbeatable as they were based on the council's own rules:
The Notice of Rejection is based upon a false premise, that the vehicle was parked in a ‘past this point’ zone.
If the council had looked at their own map based traffic order they would have noticed that none of Page Street is a past this point location with all kerb space being either a bay or yellow lines.
The Notice of Rejection is a nullity and a procedural impropriety.
case 2250001152
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Sorry about the delay due to holidays. Have sent you an Authority to sign.
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I have sent my unredacted notice of rejection to your email address.
Thanks for the help.
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The people who draft these responses are often based in Dingwall and so have no real idea about Barnet's roads (unlike myself who has cycled up a murderous hill out of Dingwall on my way to John O'Groats).
They think, because they can't see any lines that the car was in a 'past this point' zone where there aren't lines but if they had looked at their own traffweb map based traffic order they would have seen that it has normal bays and lines. The writer was probably fooled by the failure of the traffic warden to take a photo of the bay sign, which I can take a photo of later if it becomes necessary as I live in Barnet.
The council are not going to be able to put any 'pastthispoint' signs in evidence as there aren't any at this location so I would expect to win at Appeal.
fowid = please send me the unredacted front page of the rejection by email to mrmustard@zoho.com and then I will send you an authority letter to nsign and once signed I will start the Appeal.
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For convenience:
(https://i.ibb.co/nsfWsBW/20241218-111647.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Y78r7Xr)
(https://i.ibb.co/vwDfvj4/20241218-111703.jpg) (https://ibb.co/BzwvKC2)
(https://i.ibb.co/fXVyX4s/20241218-111707.jpg) (https://ibb.co/2F0CFgT)
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The Council has sent me their formal notice of rejection along with a copy of an appeal form, please advise?
https://ibb.co/Y78r7Xr
https://ibb.co/BzwvKC2
https://ibb.co/2F0CFgT
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Nothing to do at the moment except wait for the Notice to Owner and once it arrives I would mkae the identical challenge as before.
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The Council has rejected my informal challenge, please advise?
https://ibb.co/jzjsN3k
https://ibb.co/0JZVVJh
Could I use this in my appeal?
https://ibb.co/d5Kgn71
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The link doesn't work but just send what I suggest.
You don't bother quoting previous cases until the tribunal stage and even then the council will say they are not precedents (which is true) and each case is considered on its own merits (which they then ignore in any case).
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Thank you. Should I add this case into my appeal?
"Case reference 2180506536
Mr Brockies has attended in person.
This PCN was issued for the alleged contravention of being parked in a permit space in Page Street at 2.06pm on 29 September 2018 without displaying a valid permit.
I have looked at the CEO's photographs and these show that Mr Brockies’ car was parked in a bay which was signed as being for parking by permit holders only on Event Days between 1pm and 6pm. The Council's evidence shows that 29 September 2018 was an event day.
It is not in dispute that there was no valid permit on display in the windscreen of the vehicle. Mr Brockies appeals because he says that the signage was not clear. He says that he had no way of knowing that this was an event day.
The Council relies upon CPZ signs alerting motorists to event days. An image is submitted of a CPZ sign which carried a notice at the foot of the sign alerting motorists to an event day on 29 September 2018.
CPZ signs alert motorists to single yellow line parking restrictions. A motorist parking on a single yellow line in a CPZ is expected to check CPZ parking sign restrictions and, in so doing, would be aware of event day restrictions. However, a motorist parking in a permit bay is subject to the signed restrictions for the bay which may or may not be the same as CPZ restrictions.
The time plate for this bay does not provide motorists with any information about event days. It does not refer the motorist to CPZ signs or to the Council’s website for details of event days. A motorist parking in a permit bay cannot be expected to know where to find details of event days.
I therefore find that the signage was not adequate and I allow the appeal for that reason."
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The bay lines aren't very good but I accept you were in a bay and the sign within the bay does not inform you when the event days are. the zone entry signs do not correlate to bays only to single yellow lines. Accordingly you were not on notice of the restriction. The traffic warden forgot to photograph the bay sign.
Your challenge could be like this
'I was parked within a bay in Page St on 28 September. The bay sign said I could not park there during certain hours on an event day but as the sign did not inform me that it was an event day on the day in question I was not adequately notified of a restriction. Please cancel the PCN.'
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Please post an unredacted copy of the PCN itself, front page in full.
There are no trade secrets on it.
This is the unredacted PCN https://ibb.co/df0bfRT
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Please post an unredacted copy of the PCN itself, front page in full.
There are no trade secrets on it.
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See if you can get pics of the signage and also email mrmustard@zoho.com to see if he has the latest on this zone.
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Yes, I've included all the pictures.
It appears that case AG21049867 is similar to my situation, as there seem to be no signs indicating the restrictions at the point where Pursley Road meets Page Street.
It seems that in the case AG1410210A, it was suggested that the permit bay signs on this road might be insufficient, and case 2130378354 appears to indicate:
"The Authority say that the street was subject to event day restrictions, because of a match at Saracens rugby club, and that signs warning of the restrictions did not have to be placed in individual streets, but only at the entrances to the restricted zone."
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This is the Saracens rugby zone and I think we've had success with signage before.
Mr Mustard had a go at it but some time ago. The signs are defective in not offering any clue about when an event day is and there is total reliance on zone entry signs.
You've blanked the details but are those all the council's pics.
(https://i.imgur.com/efDpkQt.png)
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Please post-up a photo of the blanked-out event day sign, and also a GSV view of where you parked and also the sign.
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I parked my car in a permit bay that is only enforced on event days and walked a bit further to check the signage for the current event date. However, I found that the sign indicating the event date was covered with white tape.
On my way back to my car, I discovered that a traffic warden had already issued me a ticket, leaving me with no opportunity to verify the signage.
In hindsight, I regret not taking a photo of the parking sign at that moment. I plan to return to the area to see if the signs now display the event dates or if they remain obscured.
Given these circumstances, is it worth appealing the PCN?
GSV: https://www.google.com/maps/@51.6054546,-0.2332282,3a,15y,90.87h,91.17t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1soCKRGUM66hvQv5h_VCbOlg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?coh=205409&entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI0MDkyNS4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D
Images:
https://ibb.co/mGTzjL4
https://ibb.co/2gWTW3C