Free Traffic Legal Advice

Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: sbarclay19 on September 29, 2024, 10:20:49 am

Title: Re: Stopping at Bus Stop PCN, Victoria Road, Surbiton
Post by: John U.K. on February 12, 2025, 04:31:51 pm
@spumphrey

Forum rule: one case per thread, or things get confusing very quickly.

Please to have a read of
https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/

and start your own thread with an introductory post giving a brief account of the circumstances (by all means reference this thread with a link),
   all sides of the PCN (only redact yr name & address,
     any Council photos/video.
      and a GSV link to the location     


Title: Re: Stopping at Bus Stop PCN, Victoria Road, Surbiton
Post by: spumphrey on February 12, 2025, 03:20:22 pm
That is great news - well done! @sbarclay19 and @Hippocrates

I’ve actually got exactly the same, I received my PCN yesterday. Same place and reason - passenger got into the car taking about 5 or 6 seconds and then carried on.

Would it be feasible to present exactly the same argument you have and with reference to the successful appeal as a precedent, as a way to challenge it? Would you mind sending me any pertinent wording or arguments you used?

I take it the reduced £55 is maintained if I challenge it rapidly, so nothing to lose?

I notice as well as the bleached sign which is now white rather than yellow there is no mandatory clear way ‘no stopping’ blue circle with red outline and cross, present at all. Also, the clearway thick yellow line on the road is significantly incomplete at that location due to resurfacing and the road markings are very worn.

Thank you for any advice and help you can provide!
Title: Re: Stopping at Bus Stop PCN, Victoria Road, Surbiton
Post by: cp8759 on February 04, 2025, 10:02:31 pm
Outcome (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1qexr8OS0A75Tlc1XX_Oz_4UdhyYJQjLB/view).
Title: Re: Stopping at Bus Stop PCN, Victoria Road, Surbiton
Post by: Hippocrates on February 04, 2025, 12:14:47 pm
Video to follow. That sign suffers from sunstroke.  ;D My absolute pleasure as ever. FOIR to follow as to how much this unenforceable sign has made over the years.  cp will no doubt put the outcome here soon.
Title: Re: Stopping at Bus Stop PCN, Victoria Road, Surbiton
Post by: sbarclay19 on February 04, 2025, 10:14:36 am
WE WIN!!! :D  Huge thanks to Hippocrates for support well beyond the call of duty on this!
Title: Re: Stopping at Bus Stop PCN, Victoria Road, Surbiton
Post by: Hippocrates on February 04, 2025, 09:36:24 am
;D 2240565297 No certificate etc.
Title: Re: Stopping at Bus Stop PCN, Victoria Road, Surbiton
Post by: Hippocrates on December 16, 2024, 09:43:19 am
Sorry for the delay.

1. Failure to consider: good odds.

2. Website now changed as APCOA have taken over. Odds: 50/50 plus since it still includes wholly irrelevant grounds.

My balanced advice e mailed just now.  If this were mine, I would defend the pass!

PCN issued under the TMA. Rejection issued under the Moving Traffic Act.  ::)
Title: Re: Stopping at Bus Stop PCN, Victoria Road, Surbiton
Post by: Hippocrates on November 30, 2024, 10:44:59 am
Sorry for the delay.

1. Failure to consider: good odds.

2. Website now changed as APCOA have taken over. Odds: 50/50 plus since it still includes wholly irrelevant grounds.

My balanced advice e mailed just now.  If this were mine, I would defend the pass!

Title: Re: Stopping at Bus Stop PCN, Victoria Road, Surbiton
Post by: Hippocrates on November 21, 2024, 08:41:08 am
I will get back later.  PM sent.
Title: Re: Stopping at Bus Stop PCN, Victoria Road, Surbiton
Post by: Incandescent on November 21, 2024, 12:03:09 am
Tribunal time.
"crdeibility"
I really must check my spelling before I post !
Title: Re: Stopping at Bus Stop PCN, Victoria Road, Surbiton
Post by: Hippocrates on November 20, 2024, 07:51:46 pm
Tribunal time.
Title: Re: Stopping at Bus Stop PCN, Victoria Road, Surbiton
Post by: Incandescent on November 20, 2024, 01:46:22 pm
A far as I can see, the only appeal with any crdeibility is that of Hippocrates. This is a collateral challenge based on their representations pages on their website not showing correct information, thus misleading an appellant. So wait for "Hippo" to comment, but don't miss the deadline if you're minded to pay.
Title: Re: Stopping at Bus Stop PCN, Victoria Road, Surbiton
Post by: sbarclay19 on November 20, 2024, 01:25:31 pm
Appeal has been rejected:
https://imgur.com/a/GAzHXCT

Frustratingly, but not unexpectedly, they don't address several of the points raised in the appeal.

I know there's no guarantee, but is there a reasonable chance of winning at tribunal? And if so, what should I do next?

Thanks in advance!
Title: Re: Stopping at Bus Stop PCN, Victoria Road, Surbiton
Post by: sbarclay19 on September 29, 2024, 07:28:03 pm
Many thanks, I'll fire that in now.
Title: Re: Stopping at Bus Stop PCN, Victoria Road, Surbiton
Post by: Hippocrates on September 29, 2024, 06:43:40 pm
I see no page with the statutory grounds.

However:

Go online; skip chatbox; do not choose a reason and go to the next page

I make these formal repsrenatations against the PCN..................

1. There are several bus stops on Victoria Road. Therefore, the locus as given on the PCN is inexact.

2. There is no upright signage in the evidence shown.

3. Yours website does not show any statutory grounds, only those which can be only described as mitigation. The YTribunal has already found your website to be failing in this regard.

4. I put you to strict proof that the camera at this location has the correct approval certificate from the VCA. If it does not, then the evidence is inadmissible.

In light of the above, please cancel the PCN.

******

Take screenshots. Also of this which in my view is prejudicial:

Picking up/dropping off passenger

We don't usually cancel Penalty Charges for this reason.

Although there are situations where you are allowed to stop to pick up or drop off a passenger, the place where you stopped does not allow this. This is because it is a place where it is especially important for traffic to flow freely and safely.
 Select this reason to use it in your challenge
Title: Re: Stopping at Bus Stop PCN, Victoria Road, Surbiton
Post by: sbarclay19 on September 29, 2024, 03:33:21 pm
I know it. But does the driver? We need to see the PCN please.

Both PCN pages uploaded here:
https://imgur.com/a/ma6tEQe

Cheers.
Title: Re: Stopping at Bus Stop PCN, Victoria Road, Surbiton
Post by: Hippocrates on September 29, 2024, 02:31:06 pm
I know it. But does the driver? We need to see the PCN please.

Website:

Click your reason or search for it below

Picking up/dropping off passenger

Was stationary, not parked

Vehicle broke down

Was loading/unloading

Nowhere to park

Search all reasons – use keyword(s) such as pay and display

*******

This is useless information. When I see the PCN I will enter the correct statutory grounds and check the results. Do not pay it. Also, RBK are removing their chatbox from October 1st. Off to Surbiton now.


Title: Re: Stopping at Bus Stop PCN, Victoria Road, Surbiton
Post by: sbarclay19 on September 29, 2024, 10:40:04 am
Oh, and location is simply given as "VICTORIA ROAD" with the time and date.
Title: Re: Stopping at Bus Stop PCN, Victoria Road, Surbiton
Post by: sbarclay19 on September 29, 2024, 10:39:13 am
Hi, thanks. PCN is QT09758337
VRM: DV73 KVJ

Alternative link to download the sign, if helpful: https://w-si.link/amyZ2EVbnG4rhJhBX
Title: Re: Stopping at Bus Stop PCN, Victoria Road, Surbiton
Post by: Hippocrates on September 29, 2024, 10:29:25 am
I cannot open the file but do know the location. Does the PCN state exactly which bus stop? Please give me the PCN and VRM details to check their website. This has serious issues at present.
Title: Stopping at Bus Stop PCN, Victoria Road, Surbiton
Post by: sbarclay19 on September 29, 2024, 10:20:49 am
Was about to pay a 47J (Stopped on a restricted bust stop or stand) - I honestly didn't know someone couldn't get out of the car even when there's nothing around.

But here's an interesting one. There are CCTV signs up. But on the bus stop itself, the clearway sign is so bleached from the sun that it's almost white, not yellow, and the red and blue "no stopping" sign is completely gone.

Is this a decent grounds to appeal?

https://imgur.com/a/lb36FBk

Cheers!