Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: Froggy on September 27, 2024, 11:16:17 pm
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We don't have page 1.
Anyway, if it's there then in response to 'is it best to just wait until the Order for Recovery arrives and appeal that on the grounds that we never received an NoR ?', as this is your only procedural route you should. You can submit a witness statement once the OfR has been issued.
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At the bottom of the 1st page of the NtO option 1b: APPEAL-make Representations to the Council says 'Alternatively you can email the Council online at https://parking.northdevon.gov.uk/3sclive/ and attach the Grounds for Representation form as supporting documentation'.
Following this, they emailed me to confirm card details so they could check the payment in their system.
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I cannot see any option to submit reps by email in the NTO. If you can find one, pl point this out.
Their letter dated *** seems to relate to parallel correspondence.
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This is the letter we received on 25th Oct - it's not very clear that it's a rejection letter, but in the last line they state that the PCN still stands. We received a copy of this with the Charge Certificate on 4th November.
[attachment deleted by admin]
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Thanks - Notice to Owner is in the original set of images in the first link. I sent the Representations form as an attachment by contacting them on their website, following the link in the instructions on the form (screenshot of web page and email confirmation below). [attach=1]
[attachment deleted by admin]
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Yes, to be clear - how do you know reps were rejected if no letter.
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[or] just wait until the Order for Recovery arrives and appeal that on the grounds that we never received an NoR ?
Yes, BUT...
But first, we need to see your reps and the NTO to ensure they were submitted correctly and we need clarification on the following:
Case update: We submitted Representations which were investigated and ultimately rejected.
It seems North Devon Council have somehow not recorded that we submitted Representations
..are mutually exclusive statements. Pl clarify and give example of your proof pl.
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Case update: We submitted Representations which were investigated and ultimately rejected. However, we were never sent a formal 'Notice of Rejection of Representations' letter with pin code allowing us to appeal to the Tribunal. We've now been sent a Charge Certificate and the Tribunal have told us we can't appeal to them, we can only request that North Devon Council consider a late appeal (which doesn't make sense, as we already submitted our Representations on time). It seems North Devon Council have somehow not recorded that we submitted Representations - should we contact the council to ask about our missing NoR, or is it best to just wait until the Order for Recovery arrives and appeal that on the grounds that we never received an NoR ?
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It's not one or the other, you can appeal on as many applicable grounds as you want.
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Thanks for the helpful responses (and the photos - are those published by the Council?!). I am just not sure whether to appeal on grounds that the alleged contravention (not displaying a valid pay & display ticket) did not occur, or because there has been a procedural impropriety on behalf of the local authority- any advice?
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I think the requirements of the authority to act in a fair and reasonable manner comes into play alongside any other avenue
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I think they'd back down at next stage or not contest an appeal if they did reject again.
But given you're effectively £15 up and the discounted penalty is £25 it's a quibble over £10 at this stage.
think you'll find it's £50 in play now Stamf
Yup, although they may reoffer £25. Or better still may cancel.
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I think they'd back down at next stage or not contest an appeal if they did reject again.
But given you're effectively £15 up and the discounted penalty is £25 it's a quibble over £10 at this stage.
think you'll find it's £50 in play now Stamf
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Main council pics - the CEO spotted your note.
(https://i.ibb.co/mSfr8f0/ilf5.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/K62fMjw/ilf4.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/MR73YDh/ilf3.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/pnXQ9vH/ilf2.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/RY8B3Xf/ilf1.jpg)
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It looks like you've received the usual Fob-Off letter we see so often. At the NtO stage these things are normally looked at more carefully. They can do this because 95% of people fold after informal reps are rejected, so it's less workload ! If it were me, I'd take them to the Traffic Penalty Tribunal if they prove obdurate.
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I think they'd back down at next stage or not contest an appeal if they did reject again.
But given you're effectively £15 up and the discounted penalty is £25 it's a quibble over £10 at this stage.
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TLDR: Paid for full day’s parking but the machine didn’t print a ticket, payment reversed 8 days later, appeal then rejected.
We paid £15 at the parking meter for a full day's parking. Payment was taken from our bank account but the machine did not produce a ticket. We sought advice from nearby tourist information staff (potential witness), left a note in the vehicle window to explain and then reported the machine fault when we saw council car park attendants checking the paper in the meter about 10 minutes later. When we returned to the vehicle we had received a PCN. There had been no indication that we would receive a refund, and the payment wasn't reversed until 8 days later (we have an email from our bank as proof). Three days after refunding our payment, NDC rejected our appeal, on the grounds that our payment was marked as “Unknown” in their system (ie. they have not received the funds from us). Their rejection letter also stated that if the parking meter was faulty we could have paid by cash or online; as we didn't know until after paying that the machine was faulty, this implies an expectation that we should have paid twice (£30) for parking. They also stated that their sign directs car parker users to contact the council in case of faults but that they received no reports of a fault for that day; this is categorically incorrect as we reported it in person (unfortunately verbally so no written proof) to the council staff attending the car park.
We have now been served the notice to owner and are planning to appeal on the grounds that the contravention did not occur, as well as potentially offering to repay the original parking fee refunded to us. However, it is true that we were parked without displaying a ticket so technically the contravention did occur (although we had paid in full and reported the issue) - what grounds do we have to appeal, and what evidence do we need?
Thanks in advance.
https://imgur.com/a/1l2GqbT
(https://imgur.com/a/1l2GqbT)