Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: Joe Bloggs on September 26, 2024, 01:35:03 pm
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However the bottom line is, is the OP willing to put the matter to the test at London Tribunals ?
He was, but unfortunately the “independent” adjudicator had formed their decision beforehand. Seemingly a sign clearly visible from a camera on top of a 20ft pole sited specifically to view it must also be clearly visible from inside a car across the other side of the road. Impossibly arrogant.
Case number please.
Have you asked for a review ?
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However the bottom line is, is the OP willing to put the matter to the test at London Tribunals ?
He was, but unfortunately the “independent” adjudicator had formed their decision beforehand. Seemingly a sign clearly visible from a camera on top of a 20ft pole sited specifically to view it must also be clearly visible from inside a car across the other side of the road. Impossibly arrogant.
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The Craven Road/Hill signs are still there as per the 2022 images - the 2024 images are, I assume, taken out of school term time so the signs are covered. The Craven Terrace sign is also covered on the two most recent Street View images.
I’ve added the full rejection letter to the album below:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/cTBWBzt4GqtgbxFh8
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I wanted to see the whole rejection to see if they had re-offered the discount, and they have.
I think there being only one sign is one, albeit not hugely strong, appeal point, but the other aspect is the sheer impossibility of reading the times on the sign until one has committed to driving across the main street. This is just bloody dangerous !!
There are two signs on the approaches on Craven Hill
https://maps.app.goo.gl/TXbrtHsjjpE5pTbz8
and Craven Road
https://maps.app.goo.gl/HcSafn51nJPanukZ9
but nothing on the Devonshire Terrace approach.
The above views are from GSV Dec 2022 but the 2024 view shows these as blank ! Most odd
There is a good argument that the council have failed adequately to sign the restriction under their duties in LATOR
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1996/2489/contents
see Regulation 18
However the bottom line is, is the OP willing to put the matter to the test at London Tribunals ?
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As Incandescent said, please post the whole of the NoR, redacting only yr name & address.
You've omitted what is arguably most important: its date, and there are often mistakes in the usual 'small print', but no-one here can tell if they are there or if ththere are fatal to the PCN unless they are shown here!
Don't attach, have a read of
https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/
and use Imgur or ibb.co
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… and the Street View image (which looks like 8-bit):
[attachment deleted by admin]
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That’s it, aside from the standard appeal stuff on the reverse:
[attachment deleted by admin]
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Representations rejected, with a pretty poor response that mentions parking.
Please post all of their rejection.
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Representations rejected, with a pretty poor response that mentions parking.
[attachment deleted by admin]
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Not sure it's obscured but there should be two signs in my view, and the lack of advance warning is a good point as can you ascertain the timings while trying to navigate across a busy road.
https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5134849,-0.179692,3a,75y,105.35h,70.98t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1saJ1sjSdb7nmDk2x_APnfgg!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fcb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26pitch%3D19.015394007833038%26panoid%3DaJ1sjSdb7nmDk2x_APnfgg%26yaw%3D105.3508880094678!7i16384!8i8192?coh=205410&entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI0MDkyMy4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D
(https://i.imgur.com/FOpvbDq.gif)
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Ah - WE5099240A; LV04 VJA
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Any input?
You've blanked the PCN number and vehicle VRM. What are they.
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Received a Westminster PCN via CCTV for entering a pedestrian/cycle zone on a route I take now and again - on investigation, this is a part-time “School Street” on Craven Terrace, W2, which came into being a couple of years ago, and only operates in term time in mornings and afternoons. I crossed Craven Road/Craven Hill to access Craven Terrace, coming south from Devonshire Terrace.
It’s pretty obvious that there’s a school on Craven Terrace as there are two of the usual and very obvious yellow “School” warning signs set back on either side of its entry. However, the single sign about the restricted access is effectively obscured as you approach from Devonshire Terrace as it’s right on the corner, in front of the building on the left, and in line-of-sight with the Give Way sign ahead of it at the junction (see attached pictures). Out of term time, this sign is seemingly covered with a grey panel, and you wouldn’t notice it was there.
There are two signs on Craven Road/Craven Hill warning of no right/left turn into Craven Terrace, but there is nothing at all on the approach from Devonshire Terrace. Even anticipating another restriction sign, you would already be positioned and prepared to check for traffic to cross Devonshire Terrace and I do not consider the signage in any way adequate or obvious enough. The contrast with the School Streets signs in, say, Wandsworth - large paired illuminated flashing-light boxes, incorporating the normal school signs - couldn’t be more marked.
I’ve attached a copy of the PCN and location pictures at the link below (uploads not working for me):
https://photos.app.goo.gl/cTBWBzt4GqtgbxFh8
Any input?