Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Private parking tickets => Topic started by: FrqntCarUser on September 25, 2024, 11:41:13 am
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As long as the keeper declines to identify the driver, there is nothing APCOA can do. APCOA do not rely on PoFA to be able to transfer liability from the unknown (to them) driver to the Keeper.
There is no legal obligation for the Keeper to name the driver. APCOA are not an authority of any kind. They are an unregulated private company.
So, don’t overthink this. Use the appeal provided. Even if the land is not under statutory control, the NtK is not PoFA compliant. The only reason they wouldn’t use a PoFA compliant NtK is if they can’t, because the land is covered by railway bylaws, therefore under statutory control, so, not “relevant land” for the purposes of PoFA. See PoFA 3(1).
If you need to understand why, have a read of PoFA 9(4)(a), 9(5) and 9(6). Then have a read of the NtK and do the maths from the date of the alleged contravention to the date the NtK was issued.
PoFA 2012 (https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2012/9/schedule/4/enacted)
Going forward, as long as the driver is not identified, there is nowhere for APCOA to go with this. They will cancel and if they don’t POPLA will and even if POPLA didn’t, APCOA are not litigious.
You have what is known as a “golden ticket”... as long as the drivers identity is not known.
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First of all, thanks all for the responses and suggestions.
So, you appeal only as the Keeper.
Do not alter or edit this response:
I am the registered keeper (...) and cancel the PCN.
Ok, so the whole quoted above text will go to the keeper's response.
My understanding is there no point trying to put the defence around the fact that the car park had been paid for?
What can the keeper expect as a result, what is going to be happening over next weeks/months/years?
Few more images from the car park, just in case
https://ibb.co/7JBtrbv (https://ibb.co/7JBtrbv)
https://ibb.co/0hVNXcf (https://ibb.co/0hVNXcf)
https://ibb.co/K6TKhHF (https://ibb.co/K6TKhHF)
https://ibb.co/thT4GR5 (https://ibb.co/thT4GR5)
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Doesn't really matter. Entrance sign indicates it is for station parking and it is likely that the land adjacent to the railway is owned or leased by the ToC. If it's APCOA it isn't PoFA compliant anyway.
(https://i.imgur.com/0febBdn.png)
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I'm not sure that is a station car park, ie on station property. it's one of the shopping centre car parks I believe.
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So, you appeal only as the Keeper. Do not identify the driver as there is no legal obligation to do so to an unregulated private parking company. When selecting any tick boxes only select "Other" or "Keeper only". Preferably "Other".
Do not alter or edit this response:
I am the registered keeper. APCOA cannot hold a registered keeper liable for any alleged contravention on land that is under statutory control. As a matter of fact and law, APCOA will be well aware that they cannot use the PoFA provisions because Welwyn Garden City Station is not 'relevant land'.
If the station landowners wanted to hold owners or keepers liable under railway bylaws, that would be within the landowner's gift and another matter entirely. However, not only is that not pleaded, it is also not legally possible because APCOA is not the station owner and your 'parking charge' is not and never attempts to be a penalty. It is created for APCOA's own profit (as opposed to a bylaws penalty that goes to the public purse) and APCOA has relied on contract law allegations of breach against the driver only.
The registered keeper cannot be presumed or inferred to have been the driver, nor pursued under some twisted interpretation of the law of agency. Your NtK can only hold the driver liable. APCOA have no hope at POPLA, so you are urged to save us both a complete waste of time and cancel the PCN.
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Provided new scan as well as the link to the car park.
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Repost the images keeping ALL dates and times visible and the location too. Was this at a train station?
Without that info it is impossible to tell if PoFA has been relied on or not complied with if so.
APCOA do not litigate.
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Registered keeper received PCN from Apcoa - attached below, details removed.
On the day, driver parked car. All the machines were closed with foil - only online payments. Driver was unable to pay using his app (issues with password, card security code, adding new card). Driver called his acquaintance who paid for the car park using his Apcoa app. Acquaintance made a mistake while adding the VRM in the app - one character is not matching the cars VRM. To illustrate, actual VRM is AB12 CDE but the Acquaintance added and paid for AB12 CDX.
Acquaintance has provided Vat Receipt which confirms all the details here.
Registered keeper would like to know if he has got any grounds to challenge this PCN.
Based on the personal experience, RK assumes that Apcoa will not be willing to recognize that as valid payment, so the question now is will this get resolved if it gets any further (court, debt collectors, etc)
Car Park is nearby the station but does not seem to be 'attached' to the station - not sure how to check that nor how important that is:
https://maps.app.goo.gl/UL2kBYnGYezLU1Sw6 (https://maps.app.goo.gl/UL2kBYnGYezLU1Sw6)
PCN scan front:
https://ibb.co/7RDZmDn (https://ibb.co/7RDZmDn)
Time on the PCN is not the entry, it's the car park leaving time.
PCN scan back:
https://ibb.co/j8TgyFL (https://ibb.co/j8TgyFL)
Thank you!