Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: Pramit on September 24, 2024, 03:01:36 pm
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Well Done !!
What really sticks in my throat that they served it at all ! A cynical moneygrubbing PCN served because they know most people just cough-up and don't try submitting reps. People should go to jail for this sort of thing.
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Possibly the cheekiest CCTV PCN ever, so I should hope so!
Congrats though.
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I am pleased to say that I got a letter from Barnet accepting my representations and cancelling the PCN!! :)
Special thanks to Mr.Mustard, Hippocrates, stamfordman
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Thank you. I have submitted a challenge. Fingers crossed it is accepted!
Good. If it isn't, I am sure mr mustard will help you!
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Thank you. I have submitted a challenge. Fingers crossed it is accepted!
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That looks good to me.
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Thank you. Amended to read more clearly.
Subject: Appeal of Penalty Charge Notice [PCN Number]
Dear Barnet Council,
I am writing to challenge the Penalty Charge Notice (PCN) [PCN Number], issued on [date] at [location]. I am the keeper of the car, and my son was driving the car at the time.
As shown in the image evidence provided, a vehicle was stopped near the width restriction, obstructing the left-turn lane. Police officers were actively managing the situation at the time, and several drivers, including my son, were forced to carefully navigate around the traffic island to avoid the obstruction.
Given that the stopped vehicle blocked the route, there was liquid on the road surface, which looked like oil, the car had it's hazard lights on, and in my son's judgement a high likelihood of other additional road hazards, such as mirror shards or other debris, it would not have been safe to go through the width restriction. Therefore, my son proceeded cautiously and followed the actions of other drivers who also diverted to the opposite side of the traffic island to avoid any potential danger. You will note that the traffic approaching from Alexandra Grove were stopping at the "Give Way" lines at the junction, the on coming traffic on Nether Street would also need to slow down as they had to go through the width restriction and finally the traffic from Argyle Road were also stopping at the "Give Way" lines.
The police presence including a police car on at the scene indicates that this was an unusual circumstance and were managing the traffic situation, and I believe my son's actions were reasonable and necessary to ensure safe passage. My son acted with due care and caution, and in light of these exceptional circumstances, I respectfully request that this PCN be cancelled.
Thank you for considering my appeal.
Kind regards,
[Your Name]
Modify message
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You need to sort out the driver and I as you're mixing them up in the draft.
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I am planning on sending the following letter to Barnet. Any comments or suggestions would be most welcome:
Subject: Appeal of Penalty Charge Notice [PCN Number]
Dear Barnet Council,
I am writing to challenge the Penalty Charge Notice (PCN) [PCN Number], issued on [date] at [location]. I am the keeper of the car, and my son was driving the car at the time.
As shown in the image evidence provided, a vehicle was stopped near the width restriction, obstructing the left-turn lane. Police officers were actively managing the situation at the time, and several vehicles, including mine, were forced to carefully navigate around the traffic island to avoid the obstruction.
Given that the stopped vehicle blocked the route, there was liquid on the road surface, which looked like oil, the car had it's hazard lights on, and in my judgement a high likelihood of other additional road hazards, such as mirror shards or other debris, it would not have been safe to go through the width restriction. Therefore, my son proceeded cautiously and followed the actions of other drivers who also diverted to the opposite side of the traffic island to avoid any potential danger. You will note that the traffic approaching from Alexandra Grove were stopping at the "Give Way" lines at the junction, the on coming traffic on Nether Street would also need to slow down as they had to go through the width restriction and finally the traffic from Argyle Road were also stopping at the "Give Way" lines.
The police presence including a police car on at the scene indicates that this was an unusual circumstance and were managing the traffic situation, and I believe my actions were reasonable and necessary to ensure safe passage. I acted with due care and caution, and in light of these exceptional circumstances, I respectfully request that this PCN be cancelled.
Thank you for considering my appeal.
Kind regards,
[Your Name]
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@Pramit My take is that the Police must surely have directed traffic tom pass on the right? Possibly ask them.
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Post a draft representation here first.
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Thank you both for your advice and comments
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I would go with mrmustard. I would add the object on the road. BTW, it is not a challenge but a formal representation.
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According to the law, yes, but many councils, usually including Barnet reoffer the discount even though they don't have to for moving traffic because they know people worry about the money.
I'm more interested in fighting to the end if I think you have a good case, and yours is better than 50/50 in my opinion, than making representations which councils will almost invariably reject and then watching the motorist's knees buckle and pay up.
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Thank you for that.
And if I do challenge does that mean I would have to pay the higher amount if my challenge is denied?
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You have to challenge within 28 days of receipt of the PCN.
The council have no legal time limit for reply but most adjudicators would not cancel if a response is late until it is 3 to 6 months after the representation.
Barnet usually respond in 14-21 days but can take longer.
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He went ahead
Do you know what the timescales are for the challenge? And if do challenge does that mean I would have to pay the higher amount if my challenge is denied?
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Actually, there is something else on the road on the right behind the car. Did your son go ahead or turn left?
I think you should make it quite clear that your son would have caused an accident and even greater problems for the Police. And possibly make it clear that you were not the driver but are the keeper.
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Perfectly reasonable
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Thanks. I am not sure if the police did direct the traffic around, but it is possible they did.
I am planning on sending the following letter to Barnet. Any comments or suggestions would be most welcome:
Subject: Appeal of Penalty Charge Notice [PCN Number]
Dear Barnet Council,
I am writing to challenge the Penalty Charge Notice (PCN) [PCN Number], issued on [date] at [location].
As shown in the image evidence provided, a vehicle was stopped near the width restriction, obstructing the left-turn lane. Police officers were actively managing the situation at the time, and several vehicles, including mine, were forced to carefully navigate around the traffic island to avoid the obstruction.
Given that the stopped vehicle blocked the route, there was liquid on the road surface, which looked like oil, the car had it's hazard lights on, and in my judgement a high likelihood of other additional road hazards, such as mirror shards or other debris, it would not have been safe to go through the width restriction. Therefore, I proceeded cautiously and followed the actions of other drivers who also diverted to the opposite side of the traffic island to avoid any potential danger. You will note that the traffic approaching from Alexandra Grove were stopping at the "Give Way" lines at the junction, the on coming traffic on Nether Street would also need to slow down as they had to go through the width restriction and finally the traffic from Argyle Road were also stopping at the "Give Way" lines.
The police presence including a police car on at the scene indicates that this was an unusual circumstance and were managing the traffic situation, and I believe my actions were reasonable and necessary to ensure safe passage. I acted with due care and caution, and in light of these exceptional circumstances, I respectfully request that this PCN be cancelled.
Thank you for considering my appeal.
Kind regards,
[Your Name]
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A different adjudicator may take a different view.
If the police directed the first car around then all following drivers could argue they were following police instruction which is an exemption but we only have 10 seconds of footage and the council don't keep non pcn related footage from traffic cameras.
Barnet's Notices of Rejection currently have a fatal flaw so if that does not get fixed we may have an escape route.
There doesn't need to be a Traffic Order for a blue keep left arrow.
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I really get quite disgusted at this venality and rapacity. Clearly they will all be going downstairs where it's warmer when their time comes.
I know a man who could serenade them to Tartini's The Devil's Trill. :D But, hopefully he(I) is going to join God's Heavenly Orchestra when it's time. ;)
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As I said there are clearly uniformed police or community support officers there and I wouldn't have liked to be the one trying to keep left there.
The alternative was to stay put, cause a jam and wait for them to direct traffic. Or attempt u-turns.
Good idea to flag Mr M.
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Clearly, if your son had kept left, he may have caused another accident in view of the other sheep. ;) Let them prove he could have driven the vehicle in the gap safely. There is a similar Kingston case which hinged upon an article in the TMO to avoid an accident: 2240068281. So, someone should obtain the TMO.
I'll drop mrmustard a line.
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I really get quite disgusted at this venality and rapacity. Clearly they will all be going downstairs where it's warmer when their time comes.
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massive payday for Barnet >:(
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Here are the pictures
(https://i.imgur.com/ABrHVdE.jpg)
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Thank you for your replies.
as you say there may have been space to squeeze by, but there were at least 2 cars in front of my son and as you say naturally you wouldn't want to risk driving too close to the car in the accident just to squeeze past.
The car had it's hazard lights on and there was liquid possibly oil on the road surface.
so, do you think it is worth appealing?
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Problem is that there was a case a few years ago where a vehicle was broken down, blocking the carriageway at a traffic island with a Keep Left arrow on the bollards, and everybody including TfL buses was passing on the RH side, yet an adjudicator, seemingly with no common sense whatsoever, (and hopefully now in a care home), rejected the appeal.
Yes I remember that. We'd hope a higher up in Barnet is not minded to try and repeat the exercise.
And here it is. All I can say is that in both of these cases there is room to squeeze through but only obvious from an overhead camera. In this current case it is clearly one to avoid getting close to.
https://youtu.be/mOl_hQZ8u2o?si=Gkuq2rarkrCLnydh
And the decision which I assume is correct in law - the presence of what looks like police in the current case may help.
(https://i.imgur.com/Iswz7yz.png)
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Problem is that there was a case a few years ago where a vehicle was broken down, blocking the carriageway at a traffic island with a Keep Left arrow on the bollards, and everybody including TfL buses was passing on the RH side, yet an adjudicator, seemingly with no common sense whatsoever, (and hopefully now in a care home), rejected the appeal.
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Ridiculous PCN - the operator who issued this needs (re)training.
(https://i.imgur.com/cOj9hv5.gif)
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There are no images, all I see is
[/img]
[/img]
PCN no good unless you tell us the council; we can then look at the video, the sole evidence of the contravention. Did the police direct any traffic ?
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Hello
This is the first time of posting and I am hoping I can get some help with this PCN.
My son was driving and approached a width restriction. However, there was an accident and the car involved in the accident was blocking the width restriction. Police were in attendance and can be seen in the photos sent to me from the Council. Cars were then driving slowly around the width restriction to proceed.
The police were there and dealing with the driver of the car involved in the accident, surely this would be an exemption. I am sure many of the drivers who passed this accident would have received the same PCN!
PCN: AG46632839
VRM: VN61FSV
These are images sent by the council in the PCN:
(https://www.ftla.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F%5Bimg%5Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FABrHVdE.jpg&hash=74bd3ddb0cf18d5ef035a29c118f3e769e919fea)[/img]
(https://www.ftla.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F%5Bimg%5Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FPgOMyUz.jpg&hash=a49cad7831be0ca85d81ca94ce9400311156d62e)[/img]
This is the Google maps streetview:
https://maps.app.goo.gl/Bka991HmgqksUq3w9
Thanking you in advance for your assistance.