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Live cases legal advice => Private parking tickets => Topic started by: Eryobotrya on September 24, 2024, 01:18:18 pm

Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: b789 on December 24, 2025, 07:19:21 pm
Your daughter is still the defendant in the matter. She is not counterclaiming. She is requesting a costs order against the claimant for unreasonable behaviour.
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: Eryobotrya on December 24, 2025, 04:44:14 pm
Oh, hang on a mo. The directions refer to my daughter as the defendant. Isn't she now the claimant?
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: Eryobotrya on December 23, 2025, 06:21:39 pm
That's what I thought.

 
Quote
From:
enquiries.bromley.countycourt@justice.gov.uk
To:
Xxxxxx Xxxxxxx
Cc:laurent@dcblegal.co.uk,

Thu, 18 Dec at 15:22

Good afternoon,

Thank you for your email dated 08/12/2025. This along with the case file was referred to the Judge for further directions. Please see the Judge’s comments below.

'Defendant needs to make formal application on form N244.'


Kind Regards,

Miss Hadia Hanif
Civil Back Office
The County Court at Bromley
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: b789 on December 23, 2025, 05:38:21 pm
Can you show us the order? The N244 fee will depend on what the order is telling the defendant to do.

You cannot be a "legal rep" because you are not legally qualified to be one. You are assisting the defendant but it must all be in their name as though it is them applying.
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: Eryobotrya on December 23, 2025, 05:28:06 pm
The judge has directed completion of form N244.
Need some guidance re. Q's 1&2. Am I answering as her legal rep, or as the claimant?

And before we proceed any further, do you know if there is a fee for filing this form?

TIA, and Merry Xmas
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: Eryobotrya on December 11, 2025, 03:37:22 pm
https://ibb.co/Zks9Gt4
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: b789 on December 11, 2025, 01:45:27 pm
@Eryobotrya, as we can no longer access Imgur files, can you please post a copy of your N279 Notice of Discontinuance so I have it for use as evidence of DCB Legal's misconduct in these cases.
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: b789 on December 05, 2025, 06:24:34 pm
Yes. Anything you send to he court must be Ccd to DCB Legal.
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: Eryobotrya on December 05, 2025, 06:20:43 pm
OK, thx.

All done bar the sending. Before I send the letter to the court, do I cc DCB Legal?
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: b789 on December 05, 2025, 09:43:55 am
“Liberty to apply” is a standard civil-procedure clause that gives either party permission to return to the court only for issues about the implementation of the order, not to reopen the substance of the case.

It does not allow the losing party to re-argue anything decided. It simply preserves the court’s ability to deal with practical or consequential points that might arise after the order is made.
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: Eryobotrya on December 04, 2025, 06:48:26 pm
What is:

Quote
(b) Liberty to apply.
?
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: Eryobotrya on December 02, 2025, 06:30:34 pm
OK, got it. Thx.

And phew! Good to know all that hard work (ie, yours) hasn't gone to waste.
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: b789 on December 01, 2025, 05:15:53 pm
Once a claim has been allocated to the small claims track, discontinuance does not automatically entitle the defendant to all of their “pre-discontinuance” costs.

The normal rule in CPR 38.6 is that when a claimant discontinues they must pay the defendant’s costs up to the date of discontinuance. However, CPR 38.6(3) switches that rule off for any case that is proceeding on the small claims track. Once allocated, you are back in the small-claims costs regime, which is CPR 27.14.

That does not mean you can only claim post-discontinuance costs. It means that any costs you claim, whether incurred before or after discontinuance, have to fit within what CPR 27.14 allows.

There are two routes.

First, the “ordinary” small claims costs: fixed issue fee, any hearing fee, and certain limited disbursements such as reasonable travel expenses and witness expenses. Those can include things incurred before discontinuance, but they are a narrow category.

Second, CPR 27.14(2)(g). The court can depart from the no-costs rule and award “such further costs as it may assess on the small claims track” where a party has behaved unreasonably. Under this route you can ask the court to award your reasonable time as a litigant in person at £24 per hour, plus any additional disbursements, to the extent that work was caused by the claimant’s unreasonable behaviour. That can cover work done before discontinuance (for example, dealing with incoherent or non-compliant particulars of claim, having to put them to proof on points they ought never to have pursued, or work forced on you by abusive pre-trial conduct) and work after discontinuance (for example, having to chase them about an N279 signed by someone whose authority they refuse to clarify).

So the short, honest answer is:

You cannot claim your full pre-discontinuance costs “as of right” in the way a fast-track defendant could rely on CPR 38.6. But you can still seek recovery of pre-discontinuance time and expenses if you present them either as ordinary small-claims costs (where they fit that box) or as costs flowing from unreasonable behaviour under CPR 27.14(2)(g). The key is to tie each chunk of time and spend to specific examples of unreasonable conduct and then invite the court, in its discretion, to award those sums.

In this case, a late discontinuance very close to a hearing (or after you have incurred substantial work) can support an application for unreasonable behaviour costs under CPR 27.14(2)(g), especially where, as in this case, the claim was obviously weak or defective from early on (e.g. hopeless PoC, clear PoFA failure, no standing, duplicate claims) and the claimant pressed on, ignored clear rebuttals, then pulled out only at the last minute.
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: Eryobotrya on December 01, 2025, 01:40:10 pm
Sorry, back again.

OK, so I tried to amalgamate your draft letters to the court posted at #141 and 144 into a single letter, and it's fairly clear to me from those drafts that the only costs I can claim appear to relate exclusively to post-discontinuance time spent. But as already advised, that was all my time - not the defendant's - which you have told me cannot be claimed.

The defendant spent approx. 4-5hrs of her time on this claim, but that was all pre-discontinuance. If she cannot claim pre-discontinuance time, doesn't that remove the raison d'etre for the letter to the court? The complaint to the SRA is looking like the only valid option available to us in this case - unless you can explicitly confirm that pre-discontinuance costs can be claimed.

I'm not sure how DCB Legal can be held liable for those costs, and I don't want to submit a fraudulent claim just to make a point about their non-compliance and ignorance of process.
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: Eryobotrya on November 28, 2025, 04:43:03 pm
No, not worried about anything as such. Just thought it might look a bit odd if the signatory was different from the e-mail a/c name.

OK, thx for all the advice. About to file the complaint & claim now - at last. I'll assume you want me to report back on any progress/response from the court as I get it, unless you tell me otherwise.

Thx again for guiding me thru this. Really appreciated.
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: b789 on November 25, 2025, 09:30:49 am
It matters not one iota from whose account the email is sent. That is the same as asking whether I should post something from my local post office or a different one.

If you're worried about something, you can just use like "Hide my email" if you're an Apple user. Just make sure you use an email address that will be checked regularly.
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: Eryobotrya on November 24, 2025, 07:05:13 pm
OK, thx.

Again, can it go out from my email account but with her typed name as the signature?

or ...

Should I prepare the correspondence for her to send from her email a/c?

If only I could claim for your and my time too  :-\
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: b789 on November 24, 2025, 06:55:08 pm
Just be honest about the time she spent on the claim. Include any time spent researching etc. I must have spent a few hours doing some research on this case too. Just don't overcook it.

All correspondence over this can be via email with the court.
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: jfollows on November 24, 2025, 06:54:27 pm
Your time claimed should simply be what you can justify from memory, you don’t have to prove it but it needs to be reasonable and consistent, so I’d just write it down and hold on to what you’ve written.
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: Eryobotrya on November 24, 2025, 06:51:14 pm
Well b789, you must deal with at least dozens of cases every week, so I wouldn't necessarily expect you to remember the particulars of every case you have ever handled.

But no, this is muggins fighting on behalf of his daughter, who would just cough up on first sight of a PCN for the sake of an easy life if it was left to her. She doesn't have the time for all this, and, of course, I have nothing better to do. So ........

1. OK, so she can claim for ALL the time she personally spent on this, right? If you include the two round trips to the site, the two lists of facts, and numerous exchanges with me on WhatsApp, etc., I estimate time spent to be iro 5.00hrs, give or take. But it's only an estimate. No precise records were kept. Would that be acceptable to the court, or should we deliberately underestimate to be on the 'safe' side?

2. Is the correspondence with the court, etc., to be conducted via email or hard copy via post? 

TIA.
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: b789 on November 23, 2025, 02:30:44 am
It’s your choice. I thought you were the defendant. Just tell the defendant to claim for all their costs. If you were acting as a Lay Representative, your time cannot be claimed.

If the defendant wants to claim costs for time you have spent assisting, that is for them to reconcile as to how they recover those costs to you.
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: Eryobotrya on November 22, 2025, 05:54:44 pm
Sorry, but I just can't reconcile what appears to be a direct conflict in your advice. In comment #130, you said:

Quote
Only the defendant can claim costs. Any request for costs must be made by the defendant and can only relate to their own time.

In comment #144, you then list a schedule of costs for time that I spent on behalf of the defendant, and for which you already said she cannot claim. It was my time, not hers, although she has spent other time defending this claim that you haven't listed.

For example, she prepared a bullet-point list of the facts surrounding the circumstances of the alleged infraction of the PPC's Ts&Cs - twice in fact, cos the first one was lost when Pepipoo went AWOL. She also returned to the scene of the 'crime' twice to obtain pictures of the signage for the same reason. She also spent time answering my questions whenever you posed a question that I couldn't answer without asking her, etc. Some of it is a matter of record on WhatsApp. But none of that time relates directly to dealing with DCBL. All of that was done by me.

Under those circumstances, does she have a claim for costs? IOW, can she claim for all the other stuff that predates my communications with Lauren Travis/DCBL? If not, then we will have to forgo the claim for costs and just make this a complaint about process, no? 
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: b789 on November 01, 2025, 05:50:25 pm
Yes — at this point you’ve given DCB Legal every reasonable opportunity to confirm whether the signatory was authorised or exempt under the Legal Services Act 2007, and they have declined to engage with the substance. Their latest message effectively closes correspondence without addressing the statutory compliance question.

You can now proceed to the next stage without further reference to them, i.e.:

File a costs application or written request to the court (as outlined in the earlier draft) inviting the court to award your costs under CPR 27.14(2)(g) for unreasonable conduct, highlighting that DCB Legal ignored lawful requests for clarification of a reserved activity and provided a legally flawed excuse (“not implemented at the time”).

Report the matter to the SRA, enclosing the correspondence chain and explaining that DCB Legal’s employee signed an N279 without any verified authorisation or exemption and the firm refused to confirm compliance. Stress that this may amount to unauthorised conduct of litigation contrary to the LSA 2007 ss.12–14 and Sch 3.


Send the following to the court addressed to the Court Manager / District Judge:

Quote
Subject: Costs following Notice of Discontinuance signed by unverified paralegal

Re: [Claimant] v [Defendant] — Claim No. [Claim number]

Dear Sir/Madam / District Judge,

1. The Claimant filed a Notice of Discontinuance (Form N279) on 8 September 2025 signed “L. Travis, Paralegal.” I queried whether the signatory was authorised under the Legal Services Act 2007 to conduct litigation or fell within a statutory exemption.

2. DCB Legal Ltd responded that because Mazur v Charles Russell Speechlys LLP [2025] EWHC 2341 (KB) was decided after the discontinuance, it was “not implemented at the time.” That reasoning is legally unsustainable: the decision merely affirmed the pre-existing statutory position under sections 12–14 and Schedule 3 of the Act.

3. I reiterated the request for the signatory’s full name, capacity, and authorisation details. DCB Legal declined to engage further and now states the matter is “deemed concluded”. The question of whether the N279 was executed by an authorised or exempt person therefore remains unanswered.

4. Preparing, signing, filing or serving a Notice of Discontinuance constitutes the conduct of litigation, a reserved legal activity. Where undertaken by an unqualified person it amounts to unauthorised conduct contrary to section 14 of the Act. I have had to spend time pursuing clarification that should have been forthcoming immediately.

Application
Accordingly, I invite the Court to exercise its discretion under CPR 27.14(2)(g) to award my costs occasioned by this unreasonable conduct, namely:

DescriptionTime (hrs)RateAmount
Correspondence with DCB Legal[x.xx]£24.00£[ ]
Preparing this submission[x.xx]£24.00£[ ]
Postage / incidentals£[ ]
Total£[ ]

Supporting documents:
• Copy N279 filed/served 08 Sept 2025
• My emails dated [dates] and DCB Legal’s replies dated [dates]

If the Court requires a formal N244, I am content to file one, but respectfully submit that the issue and quantum can be determined on the papers.

Yours faithfully,

[Full name]
[Postal address]
[Email]

Send the following to the SRA at report@sra.org.uk:

Quote
Subject: DCB Legal Ltd – potential unauthorised conduct of litigation (Notice of Discontinuance signed/submitted by paralegal)

Dear Sirs,

I report a potential breach of the Legal Services Act 2007 concerning unauthorised conduct of litigation by DCB Legal Ltd.

Background

Claim No. [claim number], [Claimant] v [Defendant].

On 8 September 2025 DCB Legal filed/served a Notice of Discontinuance (Form N279) signed “L. Travis, Paralegal”. I requested confirmation of the signatory’s authorisation or exemption under the Act.

Responses

DCB Legal replied that Mazur v Charles Russell Speechlys LLP [2025] EWHC 2341 (KB) “was not implemented at the time of discontinuance” and therefore they had acted correctly. This response avoids the substantive statutory question. A further chaser was sent; they ultimately stated the file was closed and the matter concluded, without confirming authorisation or exemption.

Concern

Preparing, signing, filing or serving a Notice of Discontinuance constitutes “conduct of litigation”, a reserved legal activity under sections 12–14 and Schedule 3 of the Legal Services Act 2007. The refusal to identify the signatory’s authorisation raises a credible concern that an unqualified employee performed a reserved activity contrary to section 14(1) of the Act.

I attach the relevant correspondence and N279 for your consideration. I request that the SRA investigate whether DCB Legal permitted unauthorised conduct of litigation and, if so, take appropriate regulatory action.

Yours faithfully,

[Full name]
[Postal address]
[Email]
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: Eryobotrya on November 01, 2025, 09:29:23 am
OK, looks like we're just going round in circles here. She's avoiding the substantive points of compliance and exemption, etc. Proceed to the next stage without further reference to them?



Quote
Dear xxxxx xxxxxx,

I write further to the below.

Please note that our position remains as previously advised. We continue to act in accordance with SRA regulations and adjust our internal processes accordingly dependant on new instruction from any regulating authority.

The matter was discontinued on 08/09/2025 and therefore our file is closed.

DCB Legal Ltd now deem the matter concluded.

Kind Regards,
Lauren Travis

DCB Legal Ltd
Tel: 0203 434 0433|DX 23457 Runcorn
dcblegal.co.uk|Twitter|Linkedin|Facebook

Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: Eryobotrya on October 20, 2025, 05:44:00 pm
Will do, and thanks.
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: b789 on October 20, 2025, 05:38:36 pm
Give them an extra 48 hours (by 4pm on Wednesday 22 October) with this email:

Quote
Subject: Claim [claim number] — FINAL NOTICE re authority of N279 signer

Dear Ms Travis,

Further to my email of [date] and your reply of [date], no substantive response has been received to the specific questions asked about the signatory’s authorisation/exemption under the Legal Services Act 2007.

Mazur v Charles Russell Speechlys LLP (16 September 2025) is declaratory of existing law; the issue is whether the person who signed the N279 was authorised or exempt at the time of signing. Please provide, within 48 hours:
1. The signatory’s full name, capacity and SRA/CILEX number and current practising status; or
2. The precise Schedule 3 LSA 2007 exemption relied upon (with the sealed order/statutory provision).

Absent a complete answer, I will (i) place this correspondence before the Court on a costs application under CPR 27.14(2)(g) and (ii) refer the matter to the SRA for investigation of any conduct of reserved legal activities without entitlement.

Yours faithfully,

[Full name]
[Address]
[Email]

If no response by 4pm on Wednesday 22 October, send the following to whichever court was last being used before the discontinuation and CC DCB Legal and yourself:

Quote
To: The Court Manager / District Judge

Claim: [claim number] — [Claimant] v [Defendant]

Re: Costs following Notice of Discontinuance (N279) signed by paralegal

Dear Sir/Madam / District Judge,

The Claimant filed a Notice of Discontinuance (Form N279) signed “L. Travis, Paralegal”. I queried the signer’s entitlement to conduct litigation and requested confirmation of authorisation/exemption under the Legal Services Act 2007. DCB Legal’s response did not answer those questions; no further response has been received by 4pm, 20 October 2025.

Only an authorised person (or a person within a statutory exemption) may conduct litigation. Preparing/signing/filing/serving an N279 is conduct of litigation. See LSA 2007 ss.12–14 and Sch. 3. The decision in Mazur v Charles Russell Speechlys LLP (16 September 2025) reiterates and clarifies this. Practice Direction 22 also requires the individual’s name and capacity when signing on behalf of a party.

The Claimant’s representatives have (i) failed to confirm that the signatory was authorised or exempt at the time of signing, and (ii) relied on a misunderstanding that Mazur “was not implemented” at the time of discontinuance, which is irrelevant to the underlying statutory position. This conduct has put me to unnecessary time and expense after discontinuance.

I respectfully invite the Court to exercise its discretion to award my costs caused by this unreasonable conduct. While CPR 38.6(3) limits costs on the small claims track, the Court retains discretion to award costs for unreasonable behaviour under CPR 27.14(2)(g). The continued failure to confirm basic authorisation for a reserved activity after being squarely asked is, I submit, unreasonable.

Order sought:
(a) The Claimant do pay the Defendant’s costs of and occasioned by the post-discontinuance correspondence, summarily assessed in the Schedule below and payable within 14 days; and
(b) Liberty to apply.

Schedule of Costs (Litigant in Person, CPR 46.5)

• Time spent drafting correspondence re authority (xx.xx hrs) @ £24.00/hr …… £[ ]
• Preparing this application/letter (xx.xx hrs) @ £24.00/hr …………………… £[ ]
• Postage/printing/incidentals …………………………………………………………… £[ ]
Total: £[ ]

Supporting documents:
• My emails dated [dates] and DCB Legal’s reply dated [date];
• Copy N279 as filed/served.

If the Court requires a formal application, I will file an N244 accordingly, but I hope this can be determined on the papers.

Yours faithfully,

[Full name]
[Address]
[Email]
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: Eryobotrya on October 20, 2025, 09:38:44 am
No reply to your rebuttal after 9 days. Proceed to the next stage, or allow a few more days of 'grace'?
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: b789 on October 08, 2025, 11:52:16 pm
I’m not on a break. I will be out of the country for 3-4 weeks and may have limited time and access. I will be trying to stay on top of cases as much as I can.
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: Eryobotrya on October 08, 2025, 11:44:48 pm
That's exactly what I thunked. Thx.

She's clutching at straws, and betrays a woeful lack of legal literacy in the process.

Thought you were on a 3-week break?
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: b789 on October 08, 2025, 11:16:00 pm
That doesn’t get her or DCB Legal off the hook. Mazur simply confirmed the existing legal requirement. It did not introduce the requirement from the date of the judgment.

Respond to her with the following:

Quote
Subject: Claim [claim number] — Notice of Discontinuance signer’s authority

Dear Ms Travis,

Thank you for your email.

Your response misunderstands the point in issue. The effect of Mazur v Charles Russell Speechlys LLP (16 September 2025) is declaratory of existing law: it reiterates that only an authorised person (or someone falling within a statutory exemption) may conduct litigation. That has been the position under the Legal Services Act 2007 (see ss.12–14 and Sch 3) irrespective of the date of the Mazur judgment. The question remains whether the individual who signed the N279 had the requisite authorisation or exemption at the time of signing.

Please therefore answer the questions previously put:

The signatory’s full name, capacity, and whether they are an “authorised person” within the meaning of the LSA 2007 (provide SRA/CILEX number and practising status).

If not authorised, the precise exemption relied upon under Schedule 3 LSA 2007 that entitled that individual to conduct litigation and sign the N279 in these proceedings (enclose any sealed order or specific statutory provision).

For the avoidance of doubt, Practice Direction 22 requires a signature with the individual’s name and capacity when signing on behalf of a party; “L. Travis, Paralegal” is not adequate for verification. If the N279 was not signed by an authorised (or exempt) person, please file and serve a compliant N279 personally signed by an authorised person, with their full name and capacity clearly stated.

Unless and until you provide satisfactory confirmation, I will reserve the right to place this correspondence before the Court and to seek my costs arising from any irregularity under CPR 27.14(2)(g) and, if appropriate, wasted costs. Conducting a reserved legal activity without entitlement is also a criminal offence under the LSA 2007; I reserve the right to report any such conduct to the SRA.

Please respond within 7 days.

Yours faithfully,

[Full name]
[Postal address]
[Email]
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: Eryobotrya on October 08, 2025, 01:05:57 pm
Reply received today from DCBL:

Quote
Good morning,

I write further to the below.

Please note that the Claimant instructed us to discontinue proceedings on 08/09/2025, and ruling in Mazur v Charles Russell Speechlys was decided on 16/09/2025. The case law was therefore not implemented at the time of discontinance(sic.), therefore we have acted in accordance with authoritative instruction at the time of filing.

We trust this clarifies our position.
 

Kind Regards,

Lauren Travis
DCB Legal Ltd 

Tel: 0203 434 0433 | DX 23457 Runcorn 
dcblegal.co.uk | Twitter | Linkedin | Facebook 

Is that enough to get them off the hook, assuming she is even correct about the date?

Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: Eryobotrya on September 27, 2025, 05:01:16 pm
Got it, and thx.
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: b789 on September 27, 2025, 04:23:48 pm
It matters not one iota from which email address it is sent. That's like saying it matters which post box you use to send a letter.

If you are doing the form filling and work for her, in her name, then it has to be done as though it is her that is doing it. She would be the person signing it, so if you are doing this for her, you sign it using her name.
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: Eryobotrya on September 27, 2025, 04:02:38 pm
You mean her full name, not mine, right? Even though it's going from my email account.
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: b789 on September 27, 2025, 03:57:57 pm
You can sign anything in her name. You cannot sign "on behalf of". If you are signing something that is being sent electronically, then all you ned to is to type using the full name.
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: Eryobotrya on September 27, 2025, 03:47:10 pm
Again, can I sign on her behalf?
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: b789 on September 27, 2025, 03:35:50 pm
Only the defendant can claim costs. Any request for costs must be made by the defendant and can only relate to their own time.

If I could claim costs for the time I spend on here giving advice, I could retire from my retirement! I can't though.

AS I mentioned, what is much more important for now is sending that email to DCB Legal. Those shysters need to be squirming.
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: Eryobotrya on September 27, 2025, 02:59:21 pm
Can I sign that letter on behalf of the defendant?
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: Eryobotrya on September 27, 2025, 02:02:02 pm
And what about my time? I've 'spent' a lot more of it than she has.
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: b789 on September 27, 2025, 01:51:29 pm
The defendant can claim for their time at £19/hour and disbursements if the court agrees. However, the more important thing for now is that they respond to the questions in the email.

Depending on their response will determine if costs can be requested. (Highly likely)
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: Eryobotrya on September 27, 2025, 01:45:39 pm
Not sure what costs can be claimed here. AFA I'm aware, there were none, unless you're suggesting I can claim for my and the Defendant's time?
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: b789 on September 27, 2025, 01:20:51 pm
Thank you for that. You should now send the following email to info@dcblegal.co.uk and CC yourself:

Quote
Subject: Claim [claim number] – N279 signed by paralegal: authority to conduct litigation, signature validity, and regulatory notice

Dear Sir/Madam,

I refer to the Notice of Discontinuance (Form N279) filed/served in this claim. It is signed “L. Travis”, position “Paralegal”, and purports to be signed on behalf of the claimant’s solicitor.

Please confirm by return:

1. The signatory’s full name (forename and surname), capacity, and whether they are an authorised person within the meaning of the Legal Services Act 2007 with current rights to conduct litigation (provide SRA/CILEX number and practising status). If not authorised,
2. The precise exemption relied upon under Schedule 3 of the Legal Services Act 2007 that permits that individual to conduct litigation and sign the N279 in these proceedings (enclose the sealed court order or the specific statutory provision, as applicable).

For the avoidance of doubt:

• Preparing, signing, filing or serving an N279 is conduct of litigation.
• Practice Direction 22 requires the individual’s name and capacity when signing on behalf of a party; an initial plus surname is not adequate for verification of authorisation.
• Following Mazur v Charles Russell Speechlys LLP, unqualified employees may assist but cannot themselves conduct litigation unless authorised or exempt.

Action required:

• Confirm the above within 7 days.
• If the document was not signed by an authorised (or exempt) person, file and serve a compliant N279 personally signed by an authorised person, with their full name clearly stated.

Costs and regulatory notice:

If the N279 was signed by a person not authorised or exempt, or must be re-filed/served to correct the signer’s identity/status, I, as a litigant in person, will treat this as unreasonable conduct. In line with Mazur and CPR 27.14(2)(g), I will invite the Court, in its discretion, to order the claimant to pay the defendant’s costs caused by your firm’s irregular conduct and, if appropriate, to consider wasted costs against representatives.

Further, conducting a reserved legal activity without entitlement is a criminal offence under the Legal Services Act 2007. If any unauthorised conduct of litigation has occurred, I will report the matter to the SRA without further notice and reserve all rights to place this correspondence before the Court.

Yours faithfully,

[Full name]
[Postal address]
[Email]

Give them 7 days to cure the defective N279 and respond to the questions about the paralegal's authorisation to conduct litigation. If they ignore or refuse, send a short note to the court (copying DCB Legal) enclosing the N279 and this email, asking the court to note the irregularity and to consider costs (and/or list a short costs hearing).

This is where you start to get your own back for their unreasonable behaviour.
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: Eryobotrya on September 27, 2025, 01:03:23 pm
Apologies for the delay. It was a PDF, so had a fair bit of processing to do to convert to JPEG:

https://imgur.com/a/xO1onix
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: jfollows on September 27, 2025, 12:17:44 pm
https://www.ftla.uk/private-parking-tickets/read-this-first-private-parking-charges-forum-guide/
Posted in error, apologies, please ignore.
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: Eryobotrya on September 27, 2025, 12:16:04 pm
Yep, realised that just after I posted. Just gotta do some redacting before I post it shortly.
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: b789 on September 27, 2025, 11:33:32 am
Thank you. However, it is the N279 Notice of Discontinuance that we need to see, not the accompanying email.
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: Eryobotrya on September 26, 2025, 07:31:38 pm
Oops. Just realised. That's not what you wanted, is it? But that's all I got from the defendant. If you want the actual N279, I'll have to request it from her. 
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: Eryobotrya on September 26, 2025, 07:27:27 pm
Here ya go, hopefully:

https://imgur.com/a/mPDbXUe
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: Eryobotrya on September 26, 2025, 05:48:11 pm
Sure. Watch this space.

Not sure we incurred any xpenses as such.
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: b789 on September 26, 2025, 04:48:31 pm
Well done for persevering. Can you please show us the N279, especially the signature of whoever put their name to it.

You now have an opportunity to get your own back and to possibly get some costs for their unreasonable behaviour.
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: Eryobotrya on September 26, 2025, 04:32:35 pm
Quote
There remains the strong possibility it is discontinued.
etc etc.

Spot on. The defendant received N279 on 9th Sept. What a surprise.

Thx for all the help. We are forever in your debt.
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: Eryobotrya on July 24, 2025, 10:17:47 pm
Aha! That explains a lot. I thought they were one and the same thing, hence my confusion. So ok, no expensive counsel then.
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: b789 on July 24, 2025, 09:33:05 pm
You are not a McKenzie Friend. Do not conflate the two roles. Do a bit of research on the difference! A Lay Representative is different!
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: Eryobotrya on July 24, 2025, 08:46:39 pm
Good points gentlemen, and of course I'll follow your advice on that. The more I put their nose out of joint the better.

On the question of my rights as her Mackenzie friend, I must have misunderstood a previous comment in this very thread. I'll see if I can find it and quote it here for clarification.

Thanks again. 
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: b789 on July 24, 2025, 11:29:04 am
Ok, let's cross that bridge if/when we get there. I know she won't be happy representing herself [she'd find it too stressful], and I'm not allowed to speak on her behalf. Not sure we'd have much choice.

Why on earth do you think you'd need "expensive councel"? Of course you can represent her in court as a Lay Representative and speak on her behalf. The only requirement is that she has to also attend. When you get to court, you only need to let the Usher know that you will be representing the defendant as her Lay Rep and ask them to inform the judge. You cannot be denied that right. Print this out and wave it at them should you get any resistance:

Quote
STATUTORY INSTRUMENTS

1999 No. 1225

COUNTY COURTS

The Lay Representatives (Rights of Audience) Order 1999

Made 27th April 1999
Laid before Parliament 27th April 1999
Coming into force 18th May 1999

The Lord Chancellor, in exercise of the powers conferred on him by sections 11 and 120 of the Courts and Legal Services Act 1990(1) and having consulted the Senior Presiding Judge, hereby makes the following Order:–

1.  This Order may be cited as the Lay Representatives (Rights of Audience) Order 1999 and shall come into force on 18th May 1999.

2.  The Lay Representatives (Rights of Audience) Order 1992(2) is hereby revoked.

3.—(1) Subject to paragraph (2), any person may exercise rights of audience in proceedings dealt with as a small claim in accordance with rules of court.

(2) A lay representative may not exercise any right of audience:–

(a) where his client does not attend the hearing;

(b) at any stage after judgment; or

(c) on any appeal brought against any decision made by the district judge in the proceedings.

Irvine of Lairg, C.
Dated 27th April 1999


EXPLANATORY NOTE
(This note is not part of the Order)

This Order provides for lay representatives to continue to exercise rights of audience in small claims cases in the county courts. Section 11 of the Courts and Legal Services Act 1990 has been amended to facilitate the making of new Civil Procedure Rules, under which small claims cases are no longer referred to arbitration, but are allocated to a small claims track. This Order does not alter current practice, but is made as a consequence of those changes.

As explained above, the reason for requesting a hearing in person is that DCB Legal will discontinue if it is a hearing in person. If it is a CVP hearing, they will just continue and attend the CVP hearing. You can decide to continue with the CVP hearing or request a hearing face to face which is highly likely to be discontinued.
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: jfollows on July 24, 2025, 06:19:57 am
Yes, Bromley is our home court, but I actually requested The Strand coz of easier access, etc. Seems we didn't get it.

I take your points about CVP, but what about the advantages? Eg, we turn up for a hearing (possibly with expensive counsel) only to find out that our case has been deferred coz of preceding overruns. Apart from which, the defendant has already expressed her reluctance to take a day off work in order to attend a hearing in person.

I had to assure her that I would personally make good any loss of celery.* I'd even be willing to throw a tomato at the claimant. But seriously, does a CVP really put us at a disadvantage that does not apply equally to the claimant? So approx. evenhandedness is preserved, no?
The claimant will discontinue rather than invest the time and money to attend a court in person. They may well not discontinue if they only need to “attend” remotely, from their offices in Runcorn or wherever.
Hence the advice to ask for a hearing in person which will always be at a court local to the defendant.
And if you follow advice here you don’t need “expensive counsel”.
Yes, it’s a pain assuming it went as far as court, but you’re not putting yourself in the claimant’s shoes. They won’t attend in person for a £100 claim. It’s not their business model. It’s why we advise what we do.
But only you know your thoughts, and if your friend would find attending in person too stressful, however unlikely it is that it would come to that, then do what you have to.
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: Eryobotrya on July 24, 2025, 12:42:55 am
Ok, let's cross that bridge if/when we get there. I know she won't be happy representing herself [she'd find it too stressful], and I'm not allowed to speak on her behalf. Not sure we'd have much choice.
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: DWMB2 on July 23, 2025, 11:56:00 pm
There remains the strong possibility it is discontinued.
*Assuming we win if it goes to a hearing, can she claim loss of income as a legitimate expense? Cost of legal representation? She won't want to represent herself.
Costs in the small claims track are very limited, you may wish to consult Rule 27.14 of the Civil Procedure Rules (https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part27#27.14) for more detail. Loss of earnings is capped at £95 per day. Legal representation would likely cost more than the value of the claim, and is generally not needed for these cases.
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: Eryobotrya on July 23, 2025, 11:02:14 pm
Yes, Bromley is our home court, but I actually requested The Strand coz of easier access, etc. Seems we didn't get it.

I take your points about CVP, but what about the advantages? Eg, we turn up for a hearing (possibly with expensive counsel) only to find out that our case has been deferred coz of preceding overruns. Apart from which, the defendant has already expressed her reluctance to take a day off work in order to attend a hearing in person.

I had to assure her that I would personally make good any loss of celery.* I'd even be willing to throw a tomato at the claimant. But seriously, does a CVP really put us at a disadvantage that does not apply equally to the claimant? So approx. evenhandedness is preserved, no?

*Assuming we win if it goes to a hearing, can she claim loss of income as a legitimate expense? Cost of legal representation? She won't want to represent herself.
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: b789 on July 23, 2025, 07:17:50 pm
Is Bromley your 'home court'? I see it is listed as a video hearing. That is not ideal.

You can object to a CVP (Cloud Video Platform) hearing and ask for a face-to-face hearing instead, but it is up to the court to decide whether to allow it.

To make the request, you need to do the following:

• Ask as soon as possible, ideally as soon as the hearing notice is received.
• Write to the court that listed the hearing, giving the claim number and the date of the hearing.
• Explain clearly why you need a face-to-face hearing. Reasons might include difficulty using technology, needing to show or examine physical evidence, communication difficulties, or the case being too complex to manage by video.

The court has the power to decide how a hearing is held. It can choose a video hearing, but it must make sure the hearing is fair for both sides. If the judge believes a face-to-face hearing is necessary to make the process fair, they can order it.

Send the following to your local county court if it is not Bromley:

Quote
Claim Number: [insert claim number]
Parties: [Claimant v Defendant]
Hearing Date: [insert hearing date, if known]

Dear Sir or Madam,

I am the Defendant in the above claim, which is currently listed as a video (CVP) hearing. I am writing to respectfully request that the hearing be held in person at [your local county court] court instead.

I would feel more comfortable presenting my case face to face, as I am not particularly confident using video technology for formal proceedings. I believe I would be able to express myself more clearly and follow the process more effectively in a courtroom setting.

I would be grateful if the court would consider this request. Please let me know if any further information is needed.

Yours faithfully,

[Your full name]
[Your address]
[Date]
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: Eryobotrya on July 23, 2025, 05:58:22 pm
That's how I understood it, yes. Sounds like a good idea to me, for obvious reasons.
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: jfollows on July 23, 2025, 05:48:19 pm
Hearing via Cloud Video Platform?
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: Eryobotrya on July 23, 2025, 05:31:55 pm
With apologies for my tardiness. I've had quite a few distractions recently. There were 3 more pages of directions given by the court, and I'm fairly confident no time limits have been exceeded. Again, hopefully the link will work.

https://imgur.com/a/BnSOPDn

Thx for you help b789. Really appreciated.

PS: I replied to the email from DCBL. I rejected their discounted offer to settle on behalf of the defendant.
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: b789 on July 13, 2025, 02:28:51 pm
I even take odds of 10:1, if anyone is willing to take them, that the claim will be discontinued before they have to pay the trial fee.

Their modus operandi is well known to those of us who deal with them on a daily basis.
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: Eryobotrya on July 13, 2025, 02:04:09 pm
Yeah, I only uploaded the facing page. The rest of it looked like bog-standard verbiage to me that I thought would already be familiar to you guys. Seems I was wrong - and not for the first time either.

Ok, I'll post up the rest of the docs soon as. Gotta admire your confidence that they'll drop the claim just before the hearing fee becomes due, considering they are threatening to follow through in their missive to the defendant.

Scare tactics all the way, right? We'll see.
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: b789 on July 12, 2025, 02:38:28 pm
You've only shown one page of the directions. This will be discontinued before the trial fee has to be paid by the claimant. There won't be any hearing!

What is the deadline for submitting trial bundles/witnenss statements? this is why we ask that you show everything that may be relevant. Usually it is buried in the small print that both parties must submit to the court and to each other copies of the documents they will be relying on no later than 14 days before the hearing date. If it is different, we need to know. However, I still bet it will be discontinued before the trial fee date deadline.
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: Eryobotrya on July 11, 2025, 10:05:59 pm
Yup.

And the answer to #97?
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: DWMB2 on July 11, 2025, 09:47:46 pm
WayBack Machine / Internet Archive probably has some. Can be difficult to use to navigate forums I believe.

Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: Eryobotrya on July 11, 2025, 06:42:24 pm
PS: Oh, and BTW, I read somewhere [MSE I think] that Pepipoo threads/files have been archived somewhere, and found a link for the site that I'm fairly sure I'll be able to dig up. It runs v. slowly, apparently, but might still be worth interrogating for those fotos of the signage. OTOH, if they were merely links to a hosting site, well ......... I'll cross that bridge when I get there.
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: Eryobotrya on July 11, 2025, 06:21:40 pm
So, both the strike-out and amended PoC requests are still [apparently] being ignored/going begging:
https://imgur.com/a/odkP6dj

Would I be correct to assume that those same arguments can still be deployed at the hearing? IOW, as a key part of her defence?

In the meantime, the defendant received this email from the Claimant's legal reps:

Quote
From: Katie Walsh <KatieW.bpo@dcblegal.co.uk>
Date: 9 July 2025 at XX:XX:XX BST
To: xxxxxxxxx.co.uk
Subject: Our ref: xxxxxxxxxx / Civil Enforcement Limited v xxxxxxxxxx / Your ref:


Dear xxxxxxxxxxx,

Re: Our Client: Civil Enforcement Limited

Claim Number: XXXXXXXX 

WITHOUT PREJUDICE SAVE AS TO COSTS

We write to you in relation to the above matter.

To assist the Court in achieving its overriding objective, our Client may be prepared to settle this case. I can confirm our Client would be agreeable to £145 in full and final settlement of this Claim. The current outstanding balance is £289.04.   

Should you be agreeable to this offer, please confirm the same within 7 days. Payment can be made via our website www.dcblegal.co.uk, by calling our office on 0203 838 7038 or via bank transfer: 

DCB Legal Ltd Client Account
Sort Code: 20-24-09
Account no: 60964441   

When making payment please ensure you include the following reference number, xxxxxxxxxxxxx, to enable us to allocate it to the correct case.

Upon receipt of the settlement sum of £145 we will update the Court that the matter has been settled. If you are not agreeable, we will continue to follow the Court process as normal. 


Kind Regards,
Katie Walsh 

Litigation Associate
DCB Legal Ltd

This was after she failed to pick up on around a dozen or so of their tel/calls. Ignore, or reply to reject their kind 'offer'? If the latter, can I reject on her behalf - as her 'Mackie' friend?

Many thanks.
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: Eryobotrya on May 02, 2025, 02:00:53 pm
Got it, and thx for the prompt advice.
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: DWMB2 on May 02, 2025, 01:59:38 pm
Many District Judges will simply allocate to track and defer any substantive issues to the final hearing.
If I were a betting man I'd wager this is due in part to the sheer number of civil claims filed these days (caused in no small part by firms like this). If there were fewer claims being raised, they'd probably have more time to consider cases pre-hearing.

As for paragraph #4... what b789 said. You have attempted to settle the matter without the need for a hearing, by setting out your position both to the PPC and DCB Legal. What judges don't like is cases that wind up in their courtroom, where one or both parties has made no attempt to engage with the matter outside of court. That is not the case here.
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: b789 on May 02, 2025, 01:52:40 pm
In response to your two questions...

Quote
1. Shouldn't the judge at least have given reasons for rejecting both the strike out and amended PoC requests?
Yes, ideally — but in practice, not necessarily at this stage.

This was an allocation order, not a hearing or formal judgment. While the defence included a request for strike-out or an order for further particulars, the judge was not obliged to rule on that at the allocation stage. Many District Judges will simply allocate to track and defer any substantive issues to the final hearing.

As the draft order was attached as part of the defence but no N244 application was submitted with a fee (and the matter was not listed for a hearing), the court may treat it as a request, not a formal application requiring reasons. This omission (i.e. not filing an N244 for directions or strike-out) may be why no explicit decision or reason is provided.

Quote
2. Does paragraph 4) of the N157 mean the defendant should have answered DCBL’s calls? Could ignoring them prejudice the case?

No, ignoring calls from DCBL will not prejudice the defence at trial.

Paragraph 4 of the N157 states:

The parties are encouraged to contact each other with a view to trying to settle the case or narrow the issues.”

This is a general encouragement, not a compulsory direction, and it applies to both sides. The defendant is not obliged to negotiate with DCB Legal or respond to unsolicited calls or emails, particularly if those calls are vague, coercive, or unclear about their purpose. The court cannot and does not penalise a party for failing to engage with a debt collector's phone calls.

However, if this were a party-to-party discussion or a properly made Part 36 offer or Calderbank settlement letter, the court might consider unreasonable refusal to engage in settlement discussions when deciding costs after judgment. But that doesn’t apply here.

In summary:

• Not answering DCB Legal’s phone calls cannot prejudice the defence.
• The paragraph encourages negotiation between parties, not between a defendant and a third-party agent using vague or harassing tactics.

I am still very confident that DCB Legal will discontinue before the trial fee has to be paid. That deadline will come in a further order with the hearing date.
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: Eryobotrya on May 02, 2025, 01:36:15 pm
Hey guys,

Please see uploaded images of N157 here:

https://ibb.co/album/7bzpXm

I've used a different hosting site, so hopefully the link will work.


Hmm .... well, the suggested draft defence and order on #2 seems to have had zero effect on the allocations judge. This begs two questions:

1. Shouldn't the judge at least have given his reasons for rejecting both the strike out and amended PoC requests?

2. I'm concerned about para. # 4) of the N157, (hilited) which appears to contradict advice I've received here about attempts by DCBL to contact the defendant. Could her failure to take their calls prejudice her defence at a hearing - if it goes that far?
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: b789 on March 11, 2025, 02:35:52 am
As I thunked. Ok, thx.

If they call me, do I pick up?

Nah... block their number.
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: Eryobotrya on March 10, 2025, 10:27:18 pm
👍
Exactly what I said to the defendant.
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: DWMB2 on March 10, 2025, 10:16:56 pm
If they call me, do I pick up?
I wouldn't. Correspondence should be in writing.
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: Eryobotrya on March 10, 2025, 09:48:59 pm
As I thunked. Ok, thx.

If they call me, do I pick up?
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: b789 on March 10, 2025, 07:42:40 pm
Just ignore them. They will eventually discontinue.
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: Eryobotrya on March 10, 2025, 04:55:30 pm
Hey peeps,

Time for an update, right?

So, we're post mediation (no settlement agreed, of course) and pre-directions/allocations. In the meantime, received this from the claimant: [See image, if it appears].

Defendant nominated me as her rep. in any discussions with the Claimant. She gave them my #, but they want ME to phone THEM. Cheeky baskets. 

Do I want to speak to them? Should I speak to them? What could they possibly want from her at this stage? We have already made it clear during mediation that there will be NO offer from her to settle.

As far as I'm concerned, they can sing for it - all the way to the hearing. So what gives? Is this the preamble to Discontinuance?

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: b789 on January 01, 2025, 12:22:57 am
I'm her dad, so impersonating her might be a tall ask. Any road, EX750 here:

https://imgur.com/a/0YfXbNG

Can you imagine someone querying why you have a deep voice? The purpose of the call, not on personal attributes like voice are what matter.

If they were to suggest your voice doesn't align with societal expectations for your gender, just say you feel uncomfortable because their query suggests implicit bias about gender and voice. Go all "woke" on them.
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: Eryobotrya on December 31, 2024, 11:43:19 pm
I'm her dad, so impersonating her might be a tall ask. Any road, EX750 here:

https://imgur.com/a/0YfXbNG
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: b789 on December 31, 2024, 10:59:26 pm
Just pretend to be her. No one is going to know and it is not going to make a difference.
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: Eryobotrya on December 31, 2024, 08:16:19 pm
Agreed. I was concerned about:
A) Her habit of missing/not picking up calls, and
B) Her ability to summarise her defence.

For example, if she's in a mtg on the day, that could be problematic. I thought the easiest and safest option was to take the bullet for her.
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: b789 on December 31, 2024, 06:21:16 pm
Even a 14 year old could take the mediation call and simply say that they are only prepared to offer £0 and will not entertain anything else.
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: Eryobotrya on December 31, 2024, 06:10:08 pm
She's 42 going on 14, if ya know what I mean.
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: b789 on December 31, 2024, 05:20:02 pm
Is your daughter over 18?

There is no need to give anything more about the defence other than to say that the claim is denied. End of. Just repeat what you put in your DQ (hopefully): "I wish to question the Claimant about their evidence at a hearing in person and to expose omissions and any misleading or incorrect evidence or assertions."

As I mentioned, the mediation is not part of the judicial process. The mediator is not a judge or a solicitor and cannot make any "judgment" on whether they think the claim has merit or not, even though many of them do give an opinion, which is worthless.

Do not read too much into this part of the process.
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: Eryobotrya on December 31, 2024, 05:09:50 pm
BTW, the whole process may not be as speedy as you might think. For example, we are required to give a brief outline of her defence.
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: Eryobotrya on December 31, 2024, 05:05:38 pm
... post up later today.

To be clear, the defendant is my daughter.
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: Eryobotrya on December 31, 2024, 05:03:17 pm
No, definitely X750 (05.24), and completion is compulsory. I'll
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: b789 on December 31, 2024, 03:39:52 pm
I don’t know what an X750 form is. Did you mean X740? Either way, it is not really that important.

The mediation is not part of the judicial process. There is no judge or solicitors involved. The only requirement is to “attend” the call. Our advice is that whoever “attends” the call offers £0 and it will be over within minutes.

It is a complete waste of time but as long as the call was “attended” nothing else matters. You could “attend” the call as your wife’s lay rep and offer £0.

Whilst it is extremely unlikely that this will ever get to a hearing in front of a judge because it will be discontinued before the trial fee has to be paid by the claimant, if it were to get that far, then you could act as your partners lay rep.

Both of you would have to attend the hearing but you can act on their behalf as long as you seee the usher before you go in and tell them to let the judge know. Any resistance and you flash a copy of The Lay Representatives (Rights of Audience) Order 1999 (https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1999/1225/made) at them.

My money is on a discontinuation some time next year after the case has been transferred to your local court.
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: H C Andersen on December 31, 2024, 12:25:14 pm
May we see this form pl.
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: Eryobotrya on December 31, 2024, 11:50:59 am
All done.

OK, you've told me what I cannot do as the defendant's McKenzie friend. Now tell me what I can do. The defendant has received notification from SCMS of her appt for their mediation tel/call. Included in the notification is an attachment of form EX750 - Delegation of Authority to Mediate.

Quite simply, can she delegate that authority to me?
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: b789 on November 16, 2024, 12:26:52 pm
You are dealing with the court. A McKenzie Friend has no right to act on behalf of a Litigant in Person (LiP). He may not act as the LIP’s agent in relation to the proceedings nor manage the case outside court, for example, by signing court documents.
 
A McKenzie Friend is not entitled to address the court, nor examine any witnesses. However, in exceptional circumstances, a judge may grant a McKenzie Friend what is termed “right of audience” in a particular case. The McKenzie Friend would then be allowed to address the court and conduct the litigant’s case for him, as a solicitor or barrister would normally do. Do you have this permission from the court?

You cannot act as the litigants’ agent in relation to the proceedings. You cannot manage litigants’ cases outside court, for example by signing court documents. You cannot address the court, make oral submissions or examine witnesses.

Whatever happened when you dealt with a previous PCN, it is irrelevant to this case. You did not inform us that you were acting on behalf of someone else. You can do all the work but everything must be in the defendants name. You obviously have not done that.

Because of this, the claim now stands undefended and the defence MUST be re-submitted immediately in the defendants name. There is a huge risk of the defendant getting CCJ by default because of this error. Simply edit the defence to reflect the defendants name and signature and resubmit it by email as previously advised. The CNBC have thrown a lifeline by giving the defendant until the 22nd November to re-submit the defence and the DQ.

I suggest this is done immediately.
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: Eryobotrya on November 16, 2024, 11:04:25 am
And I was working on the assumption that I was allowed to sign on her behalf as her 'McKenzie Friend'. This issue did not arise when I signed on her behalf in her fight against PPL-PRS Ltd - which she won, btw.
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: DWMB2 on November 16, 2024, 10:46:37 am
Yes - she's the person being sued so she's the one who needs to be signing paperwork etc.

I had been working on the assumption that things were being submitted in the defendant's name already. There is no "we" in these matters.
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: Eryobotrya on November 16, 2024, 10:38:19 am
Well, that's a bit of a bummer:

Quote
Dear Sir/Madam,
 
Thank you for your email which is being returned as we are unable to accept submission for this claim from you as a third party. After further investigation I note that you also completed the defence received for this claim which is also invalid.
 
The court service is only able to accept submissions from the named defendant or a solicitor acting on their behalf. Please ensure that any further submission is signed by the named party.
 
Please be advised that to become a litigation friend you need to obtain authorisation from a Local Court and this authorisation must be enclosed with your response. You are advised to seek legal advice regarding this matter.
 
Please return your Defence and Directions Questionnaire signed by the correct party by22nd November 2024 or your Defence could be struck out.  The Claimant would then be at liberty to enter Judgment against you.

Kind Regards

M. Cuteanu

N9’s and Direction Questionnaires
 
Civil National Business Centre
St Katherine's House
21-27 St Katherine's Street
Northampton
NN1 2LH

So if the defendant resubmits everything in her name and with her details, we avoid losing on a technicality, right?

Alternatively, is that enough time to obtain the necessary authorisation from my local court? I've tried 'phoning them before, and after around half an hr of hanging on, finally gave up. Doesn't bode well for a quick response from them.
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: b789 on November 12, 2024, 02:07:36 pm
You do not want a claim to be heard on papers. Just put this as your reason:

Quote
I wish to question the Claimant about their evidence at a hearing in person and to expose omissions and any misleading or incorrect evidence or assertions.

Given the Claimant is a firm who complete cut & paste parking case paperwork for a living, having this case heard solely on papers would appear to put the Claimant at an unfair advantage, especially as they would no doubt prefer the Defendant not to have the opportunity to expose the issues in the Claimants template submissions or speak as the only true witness to events in question.

The DQ is expected to be returned within 14 days of service. As it was issued on 5th November, it is deemed served on Monday 11th November which means you have until Monday 25th November to submit it. Stop panicking and rushing!

When you've completed your N180DQ, you need to send it as a PDF attachment in a single email addressed to both dq.cnbc@justice.gov.uk and info@dcblegal.co.uk and CC in yourself.
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: Eryobotrya on November 12, 2024, 12:56:16 pm
Quote
You should note the date by which this questionnaire must be returned and the name of the court it should be returned to since this may be different from the court where the proceedings were issued.

Since I've received no info or instructions about this from the CNBC, how do I find out where to send it?
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: Eryobotrya on November 12, 2024, 12:07:11 pm
Not sure how to answer this question:

Quote
D. Suitability for determination without a hearing
D1 Do you consider that this claim is suitable for determination without a hearing, such as; by a judge reading and considering the case papers, witness statements and other documents filed by the parties, making a decision, and giving a note of reasons for that decision?

If I answer NO, I'm required to state why.
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: Eryobotrya on November 12, 2024, 10:57:41 am
Lucky for me you mentioned that. I had no idea it was all done thru my MCOL A/c. Just checked it, only to discover that they ostensibly sent me a DQ on 5th Nov!!:

Quote
Claim History
Your defence was received on 03/10/2024

DQ sent to you on 05/11/2024

DQ filed by claimant on 05/11/2024


I've received nothing - either by post, email or MCOL attachment for d/load. I'm not taking any chances at this stage of the proceedings. That DQ is going to be filed online today. Just hope I haven't already missed the deadline for it.
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: b789 on November 12, 2024, 01:48:31 am
Don’t submit the DQ until your MCOL history shows that they have issued yours. They don’t like receiving them before they’re ready for it.

Continue to ignore DCBL. You only need to deal with DCB Legal correspondence unless it’s an offer to settle, in which case ignore that too. They’ll discontinue eventually.
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: Eryobotrya on November 12, 2024, 12:38:15 am
Preaching to the choir mate. You don't think I've tried? I've given the court my contact details so they can send any comms directly to me.

Only DCBL are still writing to her. I'm not too fussed about that. I get their Sabre-rattling missives - eventually, but since their deadlines are inconsequential, their threats don't faze me in the least.

Meantime, I'm about to file her Directions Questionnaire online. I might as well preempt the court's next step.
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: DWMB2 on November 11, 2024, 11:11:14 pm
She's a scatterbrain who can lose an elephant in a closet. Sorry, but that's the hand that I (and by extension you too) have been dealt with.
You may wish to impress upon her the importance of this matter. Whilst a discontinuation is very likely if she carries on with the process, she should continue to meet any and all deadlines before such time as they do actually discontinue, and deal with any paperwork promptly.
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: Eryobotrya on November 11, 2024, 04:53:04 pm
@ DWMB2 - Here's a quote from my 'reboot' post after Pepipoo went AWOL:

Quote
6. The driver MISLAID the PCN and her POPLA apppeal code with it.
7. The PPC point blank refused to disclose it/issue a copy of the PCN.
8. PCN eventually found, but too late. The appeal period had elapsed.

My 'client' is at least partly to blame. She's a scatterbrain who can lose an elephant in a closet. Sorry, but that's the hand that I (and by extension you too) have been dealt with.
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: Eryobotrya on November 11, 2024, 04:32:17 pm
Phew!! Now that's a huge relief. For a moment there, I thought I might have handed them a technical KO.
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: DWMB2 on November 11, 2024, 04:04:44 pm
As noted, DCB Legal aren't the types who tend to follow through to a hearing, so a lack of response to a Letter of Claim is unlikely to affect the process in the slightest.

Speaking more broadly about court claims in general... It's generally advisable to respond to Letters of Claim, and indeed as the PAP says, courts expect parties to have taken steps to resolve the dispute before proceedings. If one has already done this in the form of, for example, an appeal to the parking operator, POPLA or the IAS, then it could be argued that one has already sought to resolve the dispute, but there'd be little harm in reiterating the argument in response to the LoC. If one had not appealed at all, and then ignored a Letter of Claim, if it did go through to a hearing, a judge may take a dim view of this, but even then, it ought not to swing the outcome of the case overall.
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: b789 on November 11, 2024, 03:50:15 pm
Not responding to an LBA (Letter Before Action?) or LoC does not matter. there is no obligation to respond.

This will go through the normal process and will be discontinued. I'm prepared to bet on it.
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: Eryobotrya on November 11, 2024, 03:15:55 pm
Uh oh. I've just come across their LBA dated 7th Feb. I honestly don't remember if I answered it. I think I was dealing with another claim at the time from PPL-PRS Ltd, which we eventually won. Since I may be in breach of PAP para. 4, does that mean we're sunk without trace?

PS: Is it possible I answered it online, and therefore have no record of it? Other than an automated acknowledgment perhaps?
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: b789 on November 08, 2024, 11:57:30 am
You don't need to respond to either of those letters. They will probably, in due course, try to get in touch to offer a settlement. Ignore that.

They will eventually discontinue.
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: Eryobotrya on November 08, 2024, 11:42:49 am
Understood.

Do I need to respond to either or both of those letters from DCBL, even though their d/lines are now past?

I don't s'pose I'm allowed to politely request that they advise their client to go boil their collective fracking head, right?   
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: b789 on November 08, 2024, 11:26:41 am
It has been mandatory to "attend" a mediation call for all claims issued after 22nd May 2024. Note that it is only mandatory to attend the call.

Mediation is not part of the judicial process and no judges or lawyers are involved. Far too many people think that if the don't agree to settle that it would go against them at trial. Absolutely nothing of the sort. It has no bearing on any future proceedings.

You offer £0 and it is over in minutes and you have compiled with the requirement to "attend" the call. Should the mediator try to persuade you that you're not likely to win, you should immediately ask them what legal qualification do they have that permits them to make that determination. Also, a complaint about their behaviour in even suggesting anything of the sort should be made.
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: DWMB2 on November 08, 2024, 11:19:48 am
They've probably used an old version of the form - the new one doesn't contain the option: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/66a8b019ce1fd0da7b592f43/N180_0724.pdf (https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/66a8b019ce1fd0da7b592f43/N180_0724.pdf)
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: Eryobotrya on November 08, 2024, 11:16:39 am
Gotcha, though I find it odd that we are given a choice if it's mandatory.
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: DWMB2 on November 08, 2024, 11:12:55 am
Mediation is now mandatory. You simply turn up (by phone), offer nothing, and it's all over very quickly.
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: Eryobotrya on November 08, 2024, 11:04:11 am
Quote
Wait for your N180 DQ, which you can download now and fill in online.

They've already filed theirs. They've ticked Y to mediation, but I genuinely see zero grounds for any prospect of compromise, since I have no intention of paying a single penny of their fraudulent claim.

Would it prejudice our defence if I ticked N to mediation? 
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: b789 on November 08, 2024, 10:15:04 am
Use DropBox to host PDFs.

Nothing unexpected in those letters. Wait for your N180 DQ, which you can download now and fill in online.

They will discontinue before they have to pay the trial fee.

Any PPC using DCB Legal to issue their claims is not too worried about how much it costs to file a claim. The profits from the vast majority that pay up put of ignorance of the litigation process or that fail to properly respond to a claim and get a CCJ by default, by far outweighs the cost of trying it on by filling a claim.

Filing a claim is, in effect, a 'loss leader' for them. Only a tiny fraction of victims come here or over on MSE.
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: Eryobotrya on November 07, 2024, 09:13:24 pm
Hopefully, this link will work:

https://imgur.com/a/SxyA3zC

Either they are bluffing/indulging in some crude intimidation, or they are spoiling for a fight. I'm prepared to give them one.

BTW, IMGUR would not accept PDF format, so I had to upload as JPEG.
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: Eryobotrya on November 07, 2024, 05:30:13 pm
I'll post up, along with a subsequent letter that is much more interesting. Just as soon as I work out how to download a driver for my Epson printer/scanner on my recently refurbished Lenovo museum piece.
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: DWMB2 on November 07, 2024, 05:12:36 pm
I now have the letter to hand. It's dated 9th Oct., and comes with a 14 day deadline, so contents rendered academic in any event.
Perhaps, although it may still be helpful to see it. Even if it doesn't help with this case, it may be helpful to others in future.
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: Eryobotrya on November 07, 2024, 04:28:02 pm
Quote
Can you show us the letter please.

I now have the letter to hand. It's dated 9th Oct., and comes with a 14 day deadline, so contents rendered academic in any event.

The defendant has yet to grasp the concept of legal deadlines, although I have done my best to drum it into her. 
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: Eryobotrya on November 05, 2024, 02:12:19 pm
Thatsa what I thunked. Thx.
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: b789 on November 05, 2024, 01:08:24 pm
They can request what they want. You're not obliged to submit anything you are going to be relying on until you submit your Witness Statement, which you wouldn't do until the last day, hopefully after seeing their WS first.

It is so very rare for a DCB Legal issued claim for a single PCN to ever reach a hearing or even requiring a WS to produced. They discontinue and move on to lower-hanging fruit on the gullible tree.
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: Eryobotrya on November 05, 2024, 10:45:05 am
Currently on holiday in Cyprus. Will post up redacted letter when I get back.

But regardless of the content of the letter, was wondering if it constituted a breach of protocol, etc.
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: b789 on November 05, 2024, 09:24:46 am
Can you show us the letter please.
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: Eryobotrya on November 05, 2024, 08:36:50 am
Defendant recently received a letter from DCBL asking for proof of payment. Since this is now the subject of litigation, is it strictly necessary for me to respond?
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: Eryobotrya on September 30, 2024, 06:49:13 pm
Defence and supporting docs now filed, and auto response received. They promise to reply within 10 days.

Ball now in Claimant's court - pun intended. Hopefully, we won't be hearing from them again.
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: DWMB2 on September 30, 2024, 01:35:26 pm
In 2023 Civil Enforcement issued 33,220 court claims, that's 91 a day. Last financial year, they made roughly 49,000 requests per month to the DVLA for vehicle keeper details. This process is a machine, with Civil Enforcement caring very little about the details of an individual case. A minority of cases costing them money matters little to them if the majority simply pay up.
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: Eryobotrya on September 30, 2024, 01:26:50 pm
You mean the PPC doesn't care about increasing their costs? Really?
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: DWMB2 on September 30, 2024, 12:50:10 pm
You mean the claimant will drop their claim?
Usually, yes.

If the claimant is using DCB Legal, a discontinuation is very likely based on previous form. They'll string it out as long as they can in the meantime.
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: Eryobotrya on September 30, 2024, 12:40:11 pm
You mean the claimant will drop their claim?
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: b789 on September 30, 2024, 12:34:08 pm
My money is on a discontinuation. Anyone care to offer odds on a different outcome?
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: Eryobotrya on September 30, 2024, 12:31:18 pm
No, I'm not getting advice elsewhere, and the second strike out request now makes sense. Until now, it was not made clear to me that it was contingent on the claimant's failure to comply with the judge's orders. I will be filing YOUR defence today.

I'm hoping it will ruin the rest of their week.

Watch this space for further developments.
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: b789 on September 30, 2024, 12:20:49 pm
"Scathing reviews" are not a defence. It's a bit like saying to the policeman who has pulled you over for speeding that it's not fair because other drivers were going faster than me.

Should this ever escalate to the point of a hearing, you can of course refer to those reviews in your WS. However, I fear you are either going to ignore my advice and edit or provide your own authored defence or you are relying on advice from elsewhere.

I have provided advice and templates that are known to work. Use them or lose them.
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: b789 on September 30, 2024, 12:16:26 pm
I think you're overthinking this. The first point is to get the claim struck out for failure to comply with CPR 16.4(1)(a). The second request is for further PoC for failure to fully comply with the rest of CPR 16.4. The second request (order) asks that should the claimant fail to fully comply with all the points in the order, that the claim be struck out.

If you're not comfortable with a defence and draft order, you are free to compile your own. To date, this defence and draft order have not failed to get the claim discontinued or struck out.

Your choice.
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: DWMB2 on September 30, 2024, 12:13:44 pm
I found some scathing reviews of this PPC on Tripadvisor. They document and confirm the underhand tactics they employ to extract punitive damages from their victims. Would it be worthwhile attaching a few of those reviews to my defence? Or at a later stage perhaps - if it goes that far?
Probably not - bear in mind that the only time people engage with these companies is when they have been issued with a demand for money. That's unlikely to lead to positive customer experiences.

Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: Eryobotrya on September 30, 2024, 11:50:24 am
BTW, I found some scathing reviews of this PPC on Tripadvisor. They document and confirm the underhand tactics they employ to extract punitive damages from their victims. Would it be worthwhile attaching a few of those reviews to my defence? Or at a later stage perhaps - if it goes that far?
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: Eryobotrya on September 30, 2024, 11:44:08 am
Quote
The defence is not asking for a "strike out" a second time.

Hence my confusion. A strike out request is made at #1, 4 and 8(a). The first two are made under the 'Defects' defence. The third under the 'Orders' defence. How is that not a second request?

Are you saying that a strike out request can also be made under the Orders defence? That's the only way I can reconcile the apparent contradiction.
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: b789 on September 30, 2024, 11:10:05 am
To be clear, I wasn't enquiring about editing it. I was asking about the lack of authenticating detail, and whether the court might reject it because of its absence in the document.

I'm unclear as to what you mean by "authenticating detail"?

Before I file it, I'd like some clarification please.

Quote
5. Alternatively, should the court not agree to strike out the claim .......... etc

And then at 8(a):

Quote
This prevents the Defendant from properly pleading a defence, and the claim should be struck out under CPR 3.4;

But #5-9 represent the defence in the alternative in the event that the court does not agree to strike out the claim as requested at #1 and #4. How, then, can I ask the court again for a strike out after it's already been refused? Why would the court consider the request at the second time of asking?

The defence is not asking for a "strike out" a second time. It is asking that an order for the Claimant to issue further PoC is made. The defence is saying that the Claimant has failed to comply with CPR 16.4(1)(a). This is very specific and there is "persuasive" appeals case history that the entire claim should be struck out for this failure alone.

"Persuasive" means that it is not "binding" (compulsory) because, whilst it is an "appeals court" decision, it would only be "binding" if it was an appeal from a higher court such as a crown court or the Supreme Court.

So, should the judge not be "persuaded" that the claim should be struck out because of the failure to fully comply with CPR 16.4(1)(a), then the Defendant is stating that they are unable to plead a proper defence because of all the other failures to fully comply with the rest of CPR 16.4 and that the judge should therefore issue the order as drafted, ordering the Claimant to provide further PoC that fully comply with the order which would then make it possible for the Defendant to plead a proper defence.

Should the Claimant be able to fully comply with the draft order, then the judge would order the Defendant to submit a new defence to the CPR 16.4 compliant PoC.

This "short" defence and draft order were drafted with the assistance of a long serving district judge. Most judges are as fed up with the long boilerplate defences as they are with bulk litigators issued poorly pleaded claims.

So, what the defence does is say that it is impossible to properly defend the claim. It should be struck out or further particulars should be ordered. To date, no claimant has managed to fully comply with the order and has either discontinued or had the claim struck out for non compliance.

Should this ever get to the point of a hearing, then it is easily defended with a good Witeness Statement (WS). Not had to do one yet.
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: Eryobotrya on September 30, 2024, 10:51:46 am
To be clear, I wasn't enquiring about editing it. I was asking about the lack of authenticating detail, and whether the court might reject it because of its absence in the document.

But OK, leaving that aside for now, I've now been thru the defence, and it makes sense - except for one minor detail. Before I file it, I'd like some clarification please.

Quote
5. Alternatively, should the court not agree to strike out the claim .......... etc

And then at 8(a):

Quote
This prevents the Defendant from properly pleading a defence, and the claim should be struck out under CPR 3.4;

But #5-9 represent the defence in the alternative in the event that the court does not agree to strike out the claim as requested at #1 and #4. How, then, can I ask the court again for a strike out after it's already been refused? Why would the court consider the request at the second time of asking?
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: b789 on September 26, 2024, 11:16:45 pm
There’s nothing to edit in the Draft Order.
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: Eryobotrya on September 26, 2024, 06:54:51 pm
The Draft Order doesn't appear to have any ID/authenticating info, such as date, name/location of court, name of judge, case #, etc etc. Is that correct?
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: Eryobotrya on September 26, 2024, 06:34:00 pm
OK, got it. And thx.
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: b789 on September 26, 2024, 05:32:26 pm
The "allocating" judge is also known as the "case management" judge. Once the claim is allocated to the defendants local court, a case management judge will review it and issue directions (court orders).

This is the process of a claim:

Quote
Claim Issued and Defence Filed: The claimant files a claim, and the defendant submits their defence. The CNBC processes these initial steps, and no judge is involved at this stage.

Directions Questionnaire: Both parties are then asked to complete a Directions Questionnaire, where they provide information about the case, including which court they want the case transferred to, and whether they want a hearing in person. Still, at this point, no judge has reviewed the details of the case.

Transfer to Local County Court: Once the Directions Questionnaires are submitted, the case is transferred from the CNBC to the defendant’s local county court (or another court, if specified).

Case Management: After the case is transferred, a judge may review the case file for the first time. This is typically done during the allocation stage, where the judge allocates the case to the appropriate track (Small Claims Track, Fast Track, or Multi-Track), depending on the complexity and value of the claim. The judge might issue case management directions, such as setting deadlines for witness statements or fixing a hearing date.

Hearing Preparation: If the case proceeds to a hearing, a judge will again review the case materials, including the claim, defence, evidence, and witness statements, in preparation for the hearing. This is when the judge examines the details thoroughly before deciding.

The judge's first real involvement is at the allocation and case management stage, after the defence is filed and the case is transferred to a local court.

Often, the case management judge will intervene and issue directions (court order) if there are any issues with the claim. It is at this stage, hopefully, that the Draft Order will be issued.
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: Eryobotrya on September 26, 2024, 05:19:46 pm
A minor query if I may. #9 refers to "... the allocating judge ...."

What precisely are they allocating? Allocated or presiding makes more sense to me, but what do I know?
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: Eryobotrya on September 26, 2024, 09:57:05 am
Okey dokey b789, and thx a bundle. If that doesn't shove a red hot poker up their Pyloric Sphincter, I'm not quite sure what will.
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: b789 on September 26, 2024, 09:15:01 am
Here is the suggested defence. You only need to edit the claimant (Civil Enforcement Ltd), the defendants full name, the claim number and then sign it by typing the defendants name and date it. The draft order does not need editing. For the two transcripts linked to above, include a cover sheet for each one labelled "Exhibit A – Transcript of CEL v Chan 2023" and "Exhibit B -Transcript of CPMS v Akande 2024".

Quote
IN THE COUNTY COURT

Claim No: [Claim Number]

BETWEEN:

[Civil Enforcement Limited]

Claimant

- and -

[Defendant's Full Name]

Defendant



DEFENCE

Preliminary matter

1. The Defendant respectfully submits that the Particulars of Claim (PoC) served by the Claimant are defective and fail to comply with CPR 16.4(1)(a). The Defendant requests that the court consider this matter as a preliminary issue and strike out the claim pursuant to CPR 3.4(2)(a), as the PoC disclose no reasonable grounds for bringing the claim.

2. In particular, the PoC:

(i) Fail to provide a concise statement of the facts upon which the Claimant relies.

(ii) Do not specify the exact contractual terms allegedly breached.

(iii) Lack sufficient detail to enable the Defendant to understand the case and provide a full response.

3. The Defendant relies on two recent persuasive appeal cases:

(i) In CEL v Chan 2023 [E7GM9W44], the court struck out the claim due to inadequate PoC that failed to meet the requirements of CPR 16.4. (See attached Exhibit A)

(ii) Similarly, in CPMS v Akande 2024 [K0DP5J30], the claim was struck out due to vague and insufficient PoC, which did not provide enough information for the Defendant to respond appropriately. (See attached Exhibit B)

4. In light of these deficiencies, the Defendant respectfully submits that the claim should be struck out for failing to meet the necessary legal standards.

5. Alternatively, should the court not agree to strike out the claim, the Defendant requests that the Claimant be ordered to provide amended or further Particulars of Claim that comply with CPR 16.4, as detailed in the attached draft order referred to in paragraph 9.

Defendants Understanding of the Claim

6. The Defendant denies any liability for this claim and puts the Claimant to full proof of any allegation.

7. There is a lack of precise detail in the Particulars of Claim (PoC) in respect of the factual and legal allegations made against the Defendant such that the PoC do not comply with CPR 16.4.

8. The Defendant is unable to plead properly to the PoC because:

(a) The Particulars of Claim fail to comply with CPR 16.4(1)(a). The Claimant's vague statement that the Defendant "parked in breach of the terms of parking stipulated on the signage" lacks the specific terms allegedly breached. This prevents the Defendant from properly pleading a defence, and the claim should be struck out under CPR 3.4;

(b) The contract referred to is not detailed or attached to the PoC in accordance with CPR PD 16.7.5;

(c) The PoC do not state the exact wording of the clause (or clauses) of the terms and conditions of the contract (or contracts) which is/are relied on;

(d) The PoC do not set out the reason (or reasons) why the claimant asserts the defendant has breached the contract (or contracts);

(e) The PoC do not state with sufficient particularity exactly where the breach occurred, the exact time when the breach occurred and how long it is alleged that the vehicle was parked before the parking charge was allegedly incurred;

(f) The PoC do not state exactly how the claim for statutory interest is calculated;

(g) The PoC do not state what proportion of the claim is the parking charge and what proportion is damages;

(h) The PoC states that the Claimant is suing the defendant as the driver or the keeper. The claimant obviously knows whether the defendant is being sued as the driver or the keeper and should not be permitted to plead alternative causes of action.

9. The Defendant has attached to this defence a copy of an order made at another court which the allocating judge ought to make at this stage so that the Defendant can then know and understand the case which they face and can then respond properly to the claim.

Statement of truth

I believe that the facts stated in this Defence are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.

Signed:

Date:

This is a link to the Draft Order:

Draft Order for the short defence (https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/yjj8nwoc6sknmc9uawecf/short-defence-order-copy-3.pdf?rlkey=y3xyz2s8vumu0k3webocx9sza&st=mfxlgil6&dl=0)

When everything is ready, the 4 documents (defence, Draft Order 2 transcripts) should be attached as PDF files to an email addressed to claimresponses.cnbc@justice.gov.uk. Also CC in yourself.

The subject of the email must contain the claim number and in the body just state that attached are the defence, draft order and 2 transcripts in matter of "Civil Enforcement Ltd v [Defendants name] Claim no.: [Claim number]". When it has been sent, you should receive can auto-response from the CNBC almost instantly. If it hasn't been received after a few minutes, try again. If still no luck, try using a different email agent.
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: Eryobotrya on September 26, 2024, 08:11:01 am
AoS already filed. See post #6.
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: b789 on September 26, 2024, 08:06:28 am
With an issue date of 16th September, you have until Saturday 5th October to submit your Acknowledgement of Service (AoS). Follow the advice in this PDF to submit your AoS:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/xvqu3bask5m0zir/money-claim-online-How-to-Acknowledge.pdf?dl=0

There is nothing to be gained by delaying the AoS. Once the AoS has been filed, you then have until 4pm on Monday 21st October to submit your defence.

Let us know when you have submitted the AoS and we will provide a short defence and accompanying draft order. As the Particulars of Claim (PoC) lack precise detail in respect of the factual and legal allegations they do not comply with CPR 16.4(1)(a).
 A preliminary matter will be introduced requesting that the claim be struck out.

We don’t need the NtK. The PoC should be sufficient in order to understand the allegation. They are not. To help you understand why not and why you will be asking for the court to strike out the claim, have a read of those two recent persuasive appeal judgments:

CEL v Chan (https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/xy54utt9djv55xitfp7lk/CEL-appeal-transcript.pdf?rlkey=304syf9czf5arl3i1u1ircjln&dl=0)

CPMS v Akande (https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/y631olc61z1slr6xfrdsk/CPM-v-AKANDE.pdf?rlkey=kltpojedcxiwarxr0sdfyjo05&dl=0)
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: Eryobotrya on September 26, 2024, 01:56:38 am
Just tested the link, and it worked fine for me. Should work for you too.
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: Eryobotrya on September 26, 2024, 01:53:34 am

With apologies for the delay. It's been one of those days. NtO to follow - if I can find it. Haven't searched yet.

Hopefully, this link will work. Otherwise, let me know.

https://imgur.com/a/MvMptrZ (https://imgur.com/a/MvMptrZ)
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: b789 on September 25, 2024, 06:19:58 pm
Can s/one give me the link for uploading images please?
READ THIS FIRST - Private Parking Charges Forum guide (https://www.ftla.uk/private-parking-tickets/read-this-first-private-parking-charges-forum-guide/)
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: Eryobotrya on September 25, 2024, 05:37:04 pm
Can s/one give me the link for uploading images please?

Thx.
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: Eryobotrya on September 25, 2024, 01:55:31 am
Noted. And that sounds encouraging. On the NtK, I thought I was following your advice:

Quote
If you can, also show the original Notice to Keeper (NtK) to see how they've worded the claim compared to the original allegation and whether there is any keeper liability.

For example, what if the NtK itself was also non-compliant? Doesn't that add grist to the defense? Anyroad, too late now. Ready to hit the sack. I'll post up the redacted N1 later this AM. And I still wanna find that NtK regardless, but won't spend/waste too much time looking for it.

If I can't find it, then SAR it is.
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: b789 on September 25, 2024, 01:34:25 am
You don’t need the NtK to file your defence. Imagine that you had no idea about the PCN and the very first you knew anything was when you received the Claim form.

You are supposed to be able to plead a defence based whatever is in the Particulars of Claim (PoC). Can you? Obviously not, because the PoC are woefully inadequate and do not comply with CPR 16.4.

There is good, recent persuasive case law where claims are struck out for failing to plead the claim properly. The defence we provide is short and provides a draft order for the judge to order the claimant to provide further PoC. It is an order that no claimant has successfully managed to comply with to date.
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: Eryobotrya on September 25, 2024, 12:51:06 am
So NtK then. Been a while, so a bit rusty on the jargon.
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: Eryobotrya on September 25, 2024, 12:42:15 am
It was received through the post.

If I don't find it, can I SAR it before I file the defense?
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: b789 on September 24, 2024, 06:51:45 pm
Quote
NtO

You are dealing with a PPC. Are you referring to a Notice to Driver (NtD) windscreen PCN or a Notice to Keeper (NtK) postal PCN?

An NtO is normally issued for a statutory offence which is nothing to do with private parking unless, maybe, a Penalty Notice has been issued at a railway station by either APCOA or SABA.

Show us the N1SDT claim form, redacting only your personal details, the claim number, the VRM and the MCOL password. Leave everything else, especially the "issue date" and the Particulars of Claim (PoC). You most likely don't need the original NtK and if you really think you do, you can SAR it from the claimant.
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: Eryobotrya on September 24, 2024, 05:16:05 pm
Understood DW, which is why I thought a dump of the last 2-3 yrs might be feasible if contact could be established, but ok, looks like a non-starter.

If I can't find the NtO, can I make it the subject of a CPR31.14 request?
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: DWMB2 on September 24, 2024, 04:16:26 pm
As I said previously, the owners of PePiPoo haven't been heard from for a long time - this isn't due to nobody trying to contact them.

Some of PPP might have been archived by the WayBack Machine but given there are over 20 years of posts on there the chances yours will have been archived is slim. Your efforts are probably better focused on the matters in hand.
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: Eryobotrya on September 24, 2024, 04:06:01 pm
AoS filed. I'll see what docs I can find while the driver gets her act together.
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: Eryobotrya on September 24, 2024, 04:01:40 pm
Does anyone here know who the owners are? Data dump request from, say, Jan. 2021 or 22 out of the question or not possible?
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: Eryobotrya on September 24, 2024, 02:11:13 pm
Bummer on the PPP front.

Starting over again from scratch is a regular pain in the gluteus maximus.
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: Eryobotrya on September 24, 2024, 02:07:49 pm
For the avoidance of any doubt, they are not my personal details. I wasn't the driver, but I get what you're saying re taking out any personal info.

As for the cloud, etc., I've asked the driver. She has yet to respond. When she does, I'll pass it on.
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: DWMB2 on September 24, 2024, 02:00:57 pm
I'd work on the assumption that PePiPoo is gone for good. The owners haven't been heard from for some time, and this site was set up due to the ongoing issues over on PPP.
Title: Re: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: b789 on September 24, 2024, 01:59:42 pm
Are the photos not stored in the cloud somewhere? What is the name of the location? There may be other posts about it here or over on MSE.

When you post the N1SDT claim, only redact your personal details, the claim number, the vehicle VRM and the MCOL password. Leave everything else showing, including the "issue date".

If you can, also show the original Notice to Keeper (NtK) to see how they've worded the claim compared to the original allegation and whether there is any keeper liability.

Here is a link to a PDF that explains how to do the Acknowledgement of Service (AoS):

https://www.dropbox.com/s/xvqu3bask5m0zir/money-claim-online-How-to-Acknowledge.pdf?dl=0
Title: Civil Enforcement Ltd - N1SDT Claim form recieved for PCN isssued for Swanley Park parking in New Barn Rd
Post by: Eryobotrya on September 24, 2024, 01:18:18 pm
Hey guys,

This is rapidly turning into a nightmare. This is a 'legacy' case from Pepipoo, so we no longer have access to all our evidence, etc., and we have no back-up files coz the driver's mobile was returned to Vodafone for a repair under warranty. They 'succeeded' in wiping it clean for the period Sept 21-Sept 22 after a reset. That just happens to include the period when the signage fotos were taken, and those signs have since been changed after the car park changed hands!! Unbelievable. One disaster after another. Briefly, circs as follows:
1. Terms were £1.00 per hour, £3.00 for the whole day.
2. Driver didn't know how long she'd be there with young daughter, so she paid for an hr at a time.
3. Made her 3rd (and final) pymt around 15-20 mins late.
4. PCN issued for breach of their terms, even though she had paid the charge for the whole day.
5. The extant signs did not specify HOW the charge was to be paid, but we might have trouble proving that now.
6. The driver MISLAID the PCN and her POPLA apppeal code with it.
7. The PPC point blank refused to disclose it/issue a copy of the PCN.
8. PCN eventually found, but too late. The appeal period had elapsed.
9. LBA received around 6mnths ago.
10. I'll post up copies of N1 and whatever else I can find later today.

Meantime, I have to acknowledge service. For my info, should we assume that all Pepipoo data is permanently lost? The only thing that occurs is whether the driver might be able to access her fotos that were hopefully uploaded on a file sharing site.