Free Traffic Legal Advice

Live cases legal advice => Private parking tickets => Topic started by: talbot on September 18, 2024, 03:00:43 pm

Title: Re: Bank Park ANPR being added to a site where I rent premises with unworkable "whitelist".
Post by: DWMB2 on September 29, 2024, 09:36:28 pm
However, IANAL and I strongly advise you and your fellow lessees to pitch in together and seek legal advice from a lawyer that specialises in contract law and leases and that has experience of dealing with breaches of the Landlord and Tenant Act 1954.
+1

As much as forums like this are useful (one hopes!), given the fact that this will seemingly have a very detrimental impact on your business if it goes ahead, it would seem wise to get professional advice.
Title: Re: Bank Park ANPR being added to a site where I rent premises with unworkable "whitelist".
Post by: b789 on September 29, 2024, 06:58:35 pm
What is not mentioned in the lease about parking is equally important as what is mentioned. If there is no mention of requiring a permit or to be whitelisted or that the tenant is liable to charges from a third party, to a signatory to the lease and introduced after the lease was agreed, is probably grounds for it to be void.

However, IANAL and I strongly advise you and your fellow lessees to pitch in together and seek legal advice from a lawyer that specialises in contract law and leases and that has experience of dealing with breaches of the Landlord and Tenant Act 1954. This Act grants Security of Tenure to tenants who occupy premises for business purposes.

Section 23(1) of the Act provides that there must be:

A tenancy: a lease, not a licence

The premises must be occupied by the tenant: this can be the tenant themselves, through an agent or manager, or through a company that the tenant owns;

The premises must be occupied for business purposes: the business must be the main purpose of the occupation, but need not be the sole purpose, for example a shop with a flat above will be included.

Excluded tenancies:

Agricultural, mining, service and farm business leases are excluded by the Act. In addition, railway property, military establishments and dockyards are also excluded.

A tenancy that can be terminated by either landlord or tenant at any time is excluded by the Act.

Fixed term tenancies not exceeding 6 months are excluded unless the tenancy contains a provision for renewing or extending the term beyond the 6 months or the tenant has been in occupation for a period exceeding 12 months

This is what I managed to find out for you to take to a specialist in this area:

Quote
The introduction of a third party, such as a PPC, issuing PCNs for terms not agreed upon in the lease raises important legal issues, particularly concerning privity of contract and the imposition of new terms that you, the tenant, never consented to. Here are some key points you should consider in challenging this:

1. Privity of Contract
Under privity of contract, only the parties to a contract are bound by its terms. In this case, the lease is a contract between you and the landlord, and no third party (such as a PPC) can unilaterally impose obligations on you unless explicitly permitted by the lease or through subsequent agreement.

• The PPC, as a third party and not a signatory to the lease, cannot introduce or enforce terms (such as parking charges) that were not part of the original lease.

• You have not agreed to any contractual relationship with the PPC, and therefore the PPC has no standing to issue PCNs or enforce parking terms against you (or your employees or visitors/suppliers.

2. Unilateral Variation of Lease Terms
The landlord cannot unilaterally change the lease terms or impose new obligations (such as the introduction of ANPR and PCNs) without your consent, unless the lease explicitly grants the landlord the right to do so in certain circumstances.

• Even if the lease contains general clauses allowing the landlord discretion over parking matters (e.g., "from time to time, at the discretion of the landlord"), these clauses must still be exercised reasonably and in good faith.

• Imposing new penalties or charges for parking—especially through a third party—would likely be considered an unreasonable and substantial variation of the existing lease terms.

• The tenant can argue that the introduction of a PPC issuing PCNs constitutes a significant variation to the lease, which materially alters your rights, and that such a variation cannot be imposed without negotiation or agreement.

3. Imposition of Unagreed Terms
The original lease outlines your rights to park in specific areas and does not mention restrictions, permits, or ANPR systems. The introduction of PCNs would create new financial liabilities that were not part of the original agreement.

• You can argue that this fundamentally alters the terms of the lease, creating new obligations to which you did not agree.

• Courts tend to view significant changes in contract terms that impose new financial burdens (such as parking charges) with scepticism, especially when they were not foreseen or agreed upon at the time the contract was signed.

4. Unfair Terms
The Consumer Rights Act 2015 may offer some protection, depending on the business structure of your company.

• While typically applied to consumer contracts, it also applies to businesses dealing with terms deemed unfair.

• If the landlord or the PPC attempts to introduce new terms without agreement, and those terms disproportionately affect you or shift the balance of the contract unfairly in favour of the landlord or PPC, this could be challenged under the CRA.

5. Introduction of Third Parties
Introducing a third party to enforce new terms—like a PPC issuing PCNs—could breach implied covenants within the lease, particularly the covenant for quiet enjoyment, which is standard in commercial leases under the Landlord and Tenant Act 1954 (LTA 1954). This covenant ensures that tenants can use the premises without undue interference from the landlord or those acting on the landlord’s behalf.

• You could argue that the landlord’s action in contracting with a PPC to monitor parking and issue charges interferes with your right to quiet enjoyment, as recognised in the LTA 1954, and imposes a new and unjustified burden not originally agreed upon in the lease.

• This becomes particularly relevant if your and your employees/suppliers/visitors parking rights are being restricted by a third-party enforcement regime (such as ANPR cameras and PCNs), which could be viewed as an unreasonable interference with your and their use of the premises and parking facilities.

6. The Legal Status of PCNs
Parking Charge Notices (PCNs) issued by a PPC are invoices for an alleged breach of contract, not statutory fines.

• Since you have no contract with the PPC, you could argue that you are not liable for these invoices.

• The introduction of PCNs would rely on the assumption that you have agreed to new parking terms imposed by the landlord and enforced by the PPC, but without a contractual relationship with the PPC, you can reject these notices. However, it would e a bit more complex with relation to PCNs issued to your employees/suppliers/ visitors.

7. Estoppel and Legitimate Expectations
You might also argue that based on past practice (e.g., the written confirmation from the landlord allowing additional parking on a first-come, first-served basis), you had a legitimate expectation that your parking rights would not be suddenly and fundamentally altered.

• By allowing informal use of additional parking spaces, the landlord may be estopped from enforcing new parking restrictions, especially if it affects your established parking practices.

8. Seeking an Injunction
If the landlord proceeds with implementing the PPC and issuing PCNs, you may seek an injunction to prevent the landlord from enforcing new parking terms through a third party without your consent.

• You could ask the court to declare that the landlord's actions violate the lease and that the PPC has no right to impose charges on you or your employees/suppliers/visitors.
Title: Re: Bank Park ANPR being added to a site where I rent premises with unworkable "whitelist".
Post by: talbot on September 29, 2024, 12:34:46 pm
Does the lease allow for this to be introduced?

I've looked over it as much as possible, all the areas regarding parking etc and all they mention are that we're allocated the use of three spaces for our personal vehicles in "X" area marked on a map. Unfortunately there's plenty of legalese weasel words around it "from time to time, at the discretion of the landlord" etcs.
No mention of permits / ANPR or any restriction of access that I can see. I have it in writing (but not in the lease) from the LL that in addition to the three allocated spaces, we can also park elsewhere on site but on a first come, first served basis. There is another car park that is informally "customer parking" but seeing as none of the premises have ended up being used for retail (as was the original aim) this area is always empty.

No limit to the number of vehicles on site whether in parking spaces or inside the unit is mentioned.
Title: Re: Bank Park ANPR being added to a site where I rent premises with unworkable "whitelist".
Post by: b789 on September 29, 2024, 12:17:23 pm
Does the lease allow for this to be introduced?
Title: Re: Bank Park ANPR being added to a site where I rent premises with unworkable "whitelist".
Post by: DWMB2 on September 29, 2024, 11:41:07 am
Are any tenants in favour of the introduction of Bank Park? If not, you could try a united front, perhaps a joint letter signed by all the tenants setting out your objections, and how it would interfere with the conducting of your respective businesses.
Title: Re: Bank Park ANPR being added to a site where I rent premises with unworkable "whitelist".
Post by: talbot on September 29, 2024, 11:08:00 am
Just a scenario after reading all these posts. If they are definitely ANPR, so monitoring a boundary, say you drove a vehicle onto the site, and in through your loading bay door (so on your premises) and parked it there overnight. Would it get a ticket?

If so, that's incredible.

Yes, exactly that - they're expecting me to give 48hrs notice (working days only) to be able to access my own building with a vehicle, but as soon as I enter the site, the 2 hour countdown starts.

On the same business centre is a motorcycle repair / storage company.
They've told him the same thing - "Give us 2 working days notice of the reg number of any vehicles that will be entering the business park"

99% of the units on the site are industrial warehouses with roller shutter doors. There's no correlation between a vehicle entering the site and it actually taking up a parking space. It's staggering that the landlords haven't even considered that ANPR is completely unsuitable before steamrolling ahead with it, and it's so frustrating that they are hell bent on implementing this on a site where there isn't an actual problem with non-tenants causing parking problems.
Title: Re: Bank Park ANPR being added to a site where I rent premises with unworkable "whitelist".
Post by: sparxy on September 29, 2024, 02:06:07 am
Just a scenario after reading all these posts. If they are definitely ANPR, so monitoring a boundary, say you drove a vehicle onto the site, and in through your loading bay door (so on your premises) and parked it there overnight. Would it get a ticket?

If so, that's incredible.
Title: Re: Bank Park ANPR being added to a site where I rent premises with unworkable "whitelist".
Post by: b789 on September 27, 2024, 02:48:42 pm

 I get the feeling it won't be long til I end up with a PCN for parking inside my own warehouse.

You will and you won't be the first. I will place odds of 100:1 that you or your staff or a visitor will get a PCN at some point.

You have been warned.

What does your lease say about parking and any changes to the terms and conditions you originally signed up to?
Title: Re: Bank Park ANPR being added to a site where I rent premises with unworkable "whitelist".
Post by: DWMB2 on September 27, 2024, 02:45:49 pm
Quote
"Oooh, err I'll have to ask Bank Park about that one".
That sounds like the tail wagging the dog. It's his land, and yet he's seemingly happy to let a third party dictate to him the conditions by which vehicles can access it.
Title: Re: Bank Park ANPR being added to a site where I rent premises with unworkable "whitelist".
Post by: talbot on September 27, 2024, 02:41:44 pm
Another update:
Landlord has taken a more reasonable stance with the whitelist. I've provided ~20 vehicles to go on the list, which the landlord is OK with.

When I asked what the process would be of ad-hoc access to our premises with any other vehicle (sometimes we have customers vehicles, sometimes a friend might want to park their car in our unit etc) they said I'd have to give them 2 business days notice.

"What if I can't give you two working days notice to get into my own premises?"

"Oooh, err I'll have to ask Bank Park about that one".

I'm not reassured that they have done any amount of research here. I get the feeling it won't be long til I end up with a PCN for parking inside my own warehouse.


Title: Re: Bank Park ANPR being added to a site where I rent premises with unworkable "whitelist".
Post by: talbot on September 23, 2024, 04:15:11 pm
Sorry, should have been a bit clearer.
I was pointing out to the landlord that the camera operators return on investment would be very poor if they operated purely in good faith as they claim to: ~£200 a week for a few months of the year won't even cover the cost once the admin and upkeep of the systems are factored in
Title: Re: Bank Park ANPR being added to a site where I rent premises with unworkable "whitelist".
Post by: b789 on September 23, 2024, 02:45:38 pm
You mention "return on investment"... Who is "investing in this? Normally, the ex-clamper scammers will offer to install the system and the signs and agree that they will "earn" their revenue from the PCNs that they issue.

What has your landlord said about deliveries from third parties that won't be on the whitelist? It will only tale a few of your suppliers to get PCNs and your location will be on a delivery "blacklist". No matter how you look at this, it will end in tears for everyone except Bank Park who will be laughing all the way to the bank and once they've recovered their "investment" and doubled or trebled it, they won't care once the location withers and ends up a derelict site.
Title: Re: Bank Park ANPR being added to a site where I rent premises with unworkable "whitelist".
Post by: DWMB2 on September 23, 2024, 02:38:08 pm
Another consideration to throw into the mix, as an aside to the other advice already provided (and I do still think professional advice may be wise) - if they do bring in a parking firm, try to ensure that any contract your landlord signs allows them to get the operator to cancel any charges without penalty.

There are some terrible contracts signed by landowners that essentially sign them up to contracts where a parking company can issue charges, but the landlord either cannot instruct them to cancel, or has to pay some sort of fee to do so.

Also a fair warning, if Bank Park do end up operating on the site, they can be a stubborn bunch, and do take people to court over unpaid PCNs.
Title: Re: Bank Park ANPR being added to a site where I rent premises with unworkable "whitelist".
Post by: talbot on September 23, 2024, 02:08:44 pm
Brief update:
After some to-and-fro I've got the landlord to understand that having three reg numbers on the whitelist isn't in any way reasonable. They've offered "around 12".

I agreed that this was better, but the fact remains that not being able drive in and out of our building without being on this whitelist affects our quiet enjoyment of the premises.

I also pressed a couple of points with them that will hopefully make them think again:
1: ANPR being 97% accurate according to sources online. Of a conservative ~150 cars accessing the place every day, that's 4-5 tickets issued incorrectly every day, vs a very generous estimate of 3 or 4 cars that park in our car park and leave site every week - and this is during peak summer months / school holidays only. Absolutely nobody parks here in the week, or in winter.

2: I've attempted to highlight the point that the return on investment for this ~£10k? worth of cameras would be pretty poor if they only sent out PCNs to people who are actually parking incorrectly, and that there will be 5 times more people who end up with a PCN in error, than who actually warrant one.

I even tried to meet them halfway by suggesting looking at one of the companies that will supply signage and let you do your own monitoring and just send them a whatsapp picture of any incorrectly parked vehicle (I forget the name of them, but that's how it's worked at another premises we rented, and it worked fairly well)


No reply yet. The optimist in me hopes they've taken on board my points (particularly affecting our quiet enjoyment of the site, which several other tenants have raised) and are finally doing some research, but they're equally likely to have decided to just ignore me.
Title: Re: Bank Park ANPR being added to a site where I rent premises with unworkable "whitelist".
Post by: b789 on September 18, 2024, 06:30:51 pm
What new "legislation" is that?

It's not something that your landlord has been conned into believing from Bank Park Management is it? Are they perhaps trying to beat the deadline for their new join BPA/IPC Code of Practice (CoP) which would require them to modify all their signs if installed after that date?

Be fully aware and make sure your landlord is also, the BPA and the IPC are not able to "legislate" anything. What they are trying to do, is hoodwink the vast majority of people, including MPs, that the Joint BPA/IPC CoP is going to become legislation. Nothing could be more mendacious.

There is a stalled Private Parking (Code of Practice) Act 2019 that is, hopefully, going to become enacted late this year or early next year. It has come about because of the rogue practice of these cowboys and scammers (Hansard) and was only temporarily withdrawn because of lobbying by the BPA and the IPC because they are running scared. When this new )real) "legislation" in enacted, we should see the worst offenders of these vermin that infest private car parks disappear.

It just sounds as though BPM are continuing in the same sleazy way and are about to con your landlord into signing an agreement with them that will be the end of yours and everyone else's business at that location. They will have lied about any "perceived" parking problems and your landlord sounds as though he/she has fallen for their lies and deception.

If your landlord is easily persuaded to enter into an agreement with ex-clamper thugs, he/she should be reminded that they will be jointly and severally liable for the actions of their agent (BPM) and are putting their own livelihood at risk not only by that liability but also of their revenue when they realise the their existing tenants go out of business and their revenue dries up.

Remember Wilko? Big national chain that went bust a year or so ago? Believe it or not, they had a contract with one of these vermin unregulated private parking companies. Because of these scammers, they started losing customers because once each motorist had received a £100 PCN for some minor infringement, the stopped shopping there. Not only them but their friends and family too. It was insidious but played a huge part in the failure of this huge firm.
Title: Re: Bank Park ANPR being added to a site where I rent premises with unworkable "whitelist".
Post by: DWMB2 on September 18, 2024, 06:20:10 pm
If the other tenants of the site are also suitably miffed you may also be able to exert some collective pressure (and perhaps coordinate concerning legal advice, although any consequent action would probably relate to your individual leases).

If you've got access to any sort of free advice that would seem to be a no-brainer. I like to think this site gives good advice, but neither I nor b789 are lawyers, and I'm certainly not an expert on property law.
Title: Re: Bank Park ANPR being added to a site where I rent premises with unworkable "whitelist".
Post by: talbot on September 18, 2024, 06:08:49 pm
Thanks for some good replies! I'm digging the lease out, but from memory it describes our entitlement to park three personal vehicles in an area marked out on the map. The area marked out describes the entire 100m rear car park behind our building. There's another similar sized car park in front of the building, an various stuff elsewhere.
Knowing that 3 vehicles would be "tight", In queries to this before taking on the lease, the landlord stated in writing that we can also park additional vehicles elsewhere on site but as a first come first served basis, and that the three spaces behind the building are the only ones we're entitled to.
That bit wasn't in the lease, though, unfortunately.

I have finally got a response from the landlord, as have other tenants. It very much appears that Bank Park are pulling the strings here as the LL is "asking the questions" to Bank Park about it all.


I've formally raised my objections and concerns, and asked why there was no consultation whatsoever on something that so dramatically changes the way the business park operates - Yesterdays email is the first anyone had heard of it!


Good call on the legal advice - We're a member of the FSB so I've got a free consultation call with them scheduled for first thing in the morning. I'll keep you updated.

Thankfully no cameras have been installed on site yet, but they are giving 27th September as a deadline. Presumably to sneak in before October 1st to get round the new legislation?





Title: Re: Bank Park ANPR being added to a site where I rent premises with unworkable "whitelist".
Post by: DWMB2 on September 18, 2024, 03:45:34 pm
Have no doubt that Bank Parking will run amok as soon as they are allowed to operate on the site. They will not hesitate to issue PCNs to as many victims as they can until they bleed the site dry. You have been warned.
Indeed - the fact this could have a detrimental effect on the OP's business is why I suggested it may be sensible to engage professional advice from somewhere with property law expertise, alongside any tips we might be able to offer.
Title: Re: Bank Park ANPR being added to a site where I rent premises with unworkable "whitelist".
Post by: b789 on September 18, 2024, 03:36:11 pm
The Landlord and Tenant Act 1954 would be relevant as it primarily governs commercial leases, particularly regarding security of tenure and renewal of leases. You could look at the following areas of law and regulations:

Leasehold Covenants: Your lease agreement will be the primary document governing the relationship between you and your landlord. The landlord cannot generally unilaterally impose significant changes without your agreement unless the lease allows it. The implied covenant of "quiet enjoyment" in leases also protects tenants from unreasonable interference with their use of the premises, which could extend to parking arrangements.

Unfair Terms in Contracts (Consumer Rights Act 2015): While this act mainly applies to consumer contracts, it may indirectly be relevant if the landlord is imposing terms unilaterally that could be considered unreasonable or significantly disadvantageous to your business use of the premises. However, this is more relevant for small businesses if the lease terms are particularly unfair.

Property and Contract Law: If your lease explicitly or implicitly grants you parking spaces, the landlord would likely need your consent to alter your ability to use those spaces, especially if it adversely impacts your business. If the introduction of ANPR and restricted registration lists substantially affects your use of the premises, you may have a claim under contract law for breach of the lease terms.

The Law of Nuisance: If the landlord’s actions in restricting parking prevent you from accessing your premises or carrying out your normal business operations, this could give rise to a claim for nuisance, though this would typically apply in more extreme cases where your rights under the lease are being seriously obstructed.

The Common Law Right to Quiet Enjoyment: Even without an express clause in the lease, this is implied in most leases. If the parking restrictions seriously affect your ability to access your premises or run your business, it could constitute a breach of this right. It obliges the landlord not to interfere substantially with your use of the premises.

In this situation, the introduction of ANPR cameras and the restrictions imposed by the landlord appear to be a significant change to the terms under which you use your premises, particularly regarding parking. Here are a few things you should consider:

Review Your Lease: Check your lease agreement carefully to see if the landlord has the right to impose such changes. If the lease specifies that you have three parking spaces without restrictions, the new rules may constitute a variation of the lease terms. Any material change might require your consent.

Lack of Consultation: If the changes are significant, the landlord should ideally consult with tenants before implementing them. The fact that this was done without consultation could be unreasonable, especially if it hinders your ability to operate your business.

Raise Formal Objections: If you haven't already, it might be worth raising a formal, written objection to the landlord. Explain how the restrictions would negatively impact your business, including the issues with company vehicles and staff rotation.

Propose a Practical Solution: Given that you never use more than three spaces, you could propose a solution such as a rotating whitelist or a permit system that allows for flexible registration changes. You could also suggest exemptions for company vehicles that are stored on-site.

Consult Legal Advice: If the landlord remains unresponsive, seeking legal advice would be wise, particularly to understand your rights under the lease. If the changes are unreasonable or unworkable, you may be able to challenge them formally.

Has your landlord been duped by Bank Parking (ex-clamper thugs) into believing that there is a parking problem when none exists? This is how these vermin operate. They bamboozle landlords into believing there is problem and offer a free solution. They then start issuing PCNs as that is the only "income" they get to cover their expenditure on ANPR and signs. Before you know it, all the businesses and any retailers on the site notice their business dwindling as people stop using the location. It is highly likely that delivery drivers such as Amazon and others eventually blacklist the location once they have received a few PCNs.

Have no doubt that Bank Parking will run amok as soon as they are allowed to operate on the site. They will not hesitate to issue PCNs to as many victims as they can until they bleed the site dry. You have been warned.
Title: Re: Bank Park ANPR being added to a site where I rent premises with unworkable "whitelist".
Post by: b789 on September 18, 2024, 03:22:42 pm
As above, the wording in your lease will be crucial. What it says about parking is important. What it doesn't state about parking is equally important.

However, what clauses are there in the lease that allow the landlord to alter the lease? Are there any and if so, how much notice is required and what process is needed to make the alteration?
Title: Re: Bank Park ANPR being added to a site where I rent premises with unworkable "whitelist".
Post by: DWMB2 on September 18, 2024, 03:04:40 pm
The lease includes three parking spaces.
We'd need to see the exact wording of your lease in relation to parking.

As this is, at this stage, a dispute between you and your landlord, rather than a case concerning the issuing of a private parking charge, it may be slightly outside the knowledge/expertise of this part of the forum, and given the likely severe impact this seems like it would have on your business, it may be worth seeking professional advice.
Title: Bank Park ANPR being added to a site where I rent premises with unworkable "whitelist".
Post by: talbot on September 18, 2024, 03:00:43 pm
Good afternoon!
I have a business in industrial premises on a semi-rural business park. The lease includes three parking spaces. No spaces are actually marked on the ground or numbered, but we park directly outside our loading bay door. If anyone else parked there, we wouldn't be able to get in and out of the building.


The landlord has got a bit of a bee in his bonnet about the general public parking on site and walking in to town. This does happen, but it is far from a problem and parking is generally not an issue.
Yesterday we received an email stating that ANPR cameras will be fitted (managed by "Bank Park") and that businesses are allowed 1 reg number on the whitelist per allocated space.



However this is absolutely unworkable, I've been offered three "whitelisted reg numbers", but I have five staff, some part time - We never use more than three spaces anyway. Between us there are a possibility of 15+ vehicles that could be used to commute to work. I have several company vehicles stored inside the premises that would be caught on ANPR when entering and leaving the site.



I was first informed about these plans yesterday, via an official email from the landlord.
I immediately raised the issue (as did several other tenants) - Nobody got a reply acknowledging anything.
This morning they appear to have doubled down, and have sent out three "whitelist" forms.



Where do we stand on this? these rules will seriously affect our normal use of the premises - We can't even get our company vehicles in and out of the building without being stung.