Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Speeding and other criminal offences => Topic started by: Charsiu on September 16, 2024, 10:31:16 am
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Since his NIP took five weeks to get to him, there is a strong likelihood that his employer is not the RK. Although each recipient has 28 days to respond, there is no advantage to delaying a response. In fact there is a positive disadvantage for the driver because, as mentioned by BertB, they may get their NIP beyond the point where a course or fixed penalty might be offered.
NIPS are usually issued fairly quickly by the police and five weeks would seem to indicate that the employer took almost all of the 28 days they had in which to respond.
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Realistically, given that this was 5 weeks ago
Yet...
He "swears it didn't reduce show the reduced limit"
There in lies the problem!
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Generally speaking, is it worth pursuing to see the evidence and whether the device was calibrated recently? I don't fancy sending him down paths with minute chances of success.
What he can do that is often responded to quickly is ask for pictures 'to aid in the identification of the driver'. If it is a Hadecs3 system, it should show him an image of the gantry showing the posted limit at the time. But if he has gone from 'it wasn't displaying that limit' to 'shall I ask for calibration certs' it sounds like he probably knows.
I haven't spoken to him properly yet, I was just exploring what his actual options are and whether it is worth querying the validity of the camera evidence.
Realistically, given that this was 5 weeks ago, I don't expect him to actually remember during that specific stretch of the motorway.
My last message to him was to enquire with work on the NIP they received on the off chance that work is the RK and the possibility it falling out of 14 days, other than that, I said he may as well just face the penalty.
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Generally speaking, is it worth pursuing to see the evidence and whether the device was calibrated recently? I don't fancy sending him down paths with minute chances of success.
Due to the possibility of timeouts, courses to need to be booked within 3 months of offence date and completed within 4. He is halfway through that now so if he wants to delay replying for the full allowed term while he asks questions (he still needs to respond within the timescales stipulated on the NIP) and then think about it once he receives an offer, he may find that the offer of a course times out.
What he can do that is often responded to quickly is ask for pictures 'to aid in the identification of the driver'. If it is a Hadecs3 system, it should show him an image of the gantry showing the posted limit at the time. But if he has gone from 'it wasn't displaying that limit' to 'shall I ask for calibration certs' it sounds like he probably knows.
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As it's a work vehicle I'll advise him to check with work to see if the first NIP was received within 14 days.
Don't forget the company may lease the vehicle and not be the registered keeper, it's when the registered keeper were served it that matters.
there's no grounds to appeal
As pointed out before, it is NOT 'appeal' it's having a defence, there is no 'appeal' at this stage.
Generally speaking, is it worth pursuing to see the evidence and whether the device was calibrated recently?
As no calibration is needed to convict, the lack of one wouldn't help him.
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The usual view is that he may be offered the sit and get bored for £100 course, a lot cheaper than trying to question the calibration of cameras etc.
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Thanks for the advice guys.
As it's a work vehicle I'll advise him to check with work to see if the first NIP was received within 14 days. If it is within 14 days, then there's no grounds to appeal (realistically and reasonably) and therefore he should just accept his fate.
If after 14 days, I'll come back on here for further guidance :)
Generally speaking, is it worth pursuing to see the evidence and whether the device was calibrated recently? I don't fancy sending him down paths with minute chances of success.
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not sure if "Registered Driver" is a formal term or just the office having his name scribbled in their paper logbook.
The latter, there is no 'register' of drivers, it's just their own record.
As above, he can contest the allegation by allowing it to progress to court but that would be foolish unless a potential defence has been identified.
He can contact the Safety camera team and ask for a copy of photos "to help confirm the driver's ID", not demanding 'evidence' which he's not entitled to at this stage, if they supply photos and it was a HADECS3 device it will show the gantry and limit he's accused of transgressing.
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I will advise him to check with his company to see the date stamp of the very first NIP to see if it falls within 14 days or not. Appreciate that he's only defence is a memory of the speed not being displayed on the digital board, so nothing tangible at all, if we presume he was right in that regard, how would one even appeal these?
Nothing to appeal at this stage. After he responds naming himself, he will be offered a speed awareness court or a fixed penalty (£100 and 3 points), assuming he is eligible.
If he does not accept one of those offers, he will in due course be able to plead not guilty at court. The prosecution will present evidence of his guilt (photos, operator statements, etc), and in his defence he will say what?
If (when?) found guilty he will get the same 3 points, but the cost will be nearer £1,000. Much more if he employs a lawyer, or expert witnesses are needed.
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Where is he registered as the “Registered Driver”?
Presumably at work; it's his work vehicle, so I'm guessing they have him as the assigned driver and therefore provided the Police with his details when they received the initial NIP.
P.S. I've never had a work vehicle, so not sure if "Registered Driver" is a formal term or just the office having his name scribbled in their paper logbook. I'll ask him if he has a logbook and see what is recorded in there.
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Where is he registered as the “Registered Driver”?
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A NIP must be served to the driver or Registered Keeper within 14 days of the offence. Since the police don't know who was driving, it is sent to the RK.
When a NIP is received "late" we almost invariably find that the recipient is not the RK, and a NIP has been sent to the RK, who has nominated the driver. There is no time limit on any subsequent NIPs.
Is your relative the RK? If in doubt, does he have the V5C (logbook) and are his details correct?
Ah, that didn't occur to me, this must be his work van as he has confirmed he is the Registered Driver, but the Registered Keeper.
So presumably, the NIP was sent to the company within 14 days, and then they responded to confirm that he was the driver at the time and thus the NIP today.
I will advise him to check with his company to see the date stamp of the very first NIP to see if it falls within 14 days or not. Appreciate that he's only defence is a memory of the speed not being displayed on the digital board, so nothing tangible at all, if we presume he was right in that regard, how would one even appeal these?
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A NIP must be served to the driver or Registered Keeper within 14 days of the offence. Since the police don't know who was driving, it is sent to the RK.
When a NIP is received "late" we almost invariably find that the recipient is not the RK, and a NIP has been sent to the RK, who has nominated the driver. There is no time limit on any subsequent NIPs.
Is your relative the RK? If in doubt, does he have the V5C (logbook) and are his details correct?
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Family member received a NIP for doing 64MPH in a 50MPH smart motorway. He "swears it didn't reduce show the reduced limit" - what is the general approach in cases like this as it's hardly a strong defence.
One thing I have noticed is that the alledged offence is dated 1st August 2024, but the letter is dated 11th September 2024 and he received it this morning on the 16th September - is there a stipulation that these have to be served within a certain number of days.
(https://imgur.com/BaDiM0r)
NIP page 1 (https://imgur.com/BaDiM0r)