Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Private parking tickets => Topic started by: tasty_snacks on September 12, 2024, 10:22:55 pm
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Good result, thanks for the update.
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Hi everyone - just wanted to let you know that a reply from CEL was received, simply stating that the appeal had been upheld.
I can't thank you all enough.
Is there a way to make a small contribution to the running of this site so that others may continue to benefit?
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How odd - either way, still far too late to hold the registered keeper liable, so the suggested appeal should do!
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Unusual, can you show us please?
Of course!
Here's the latest PCN received:
(https://www.ftla.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F%5Burl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fflic.kr%2Fp%2F2qgXwAZ%5D%5Bimg%5Dhttps%3A%2F%2Flive.staticflickr.com%2F65535%2F54001836525_f570458bf5_b.jpg&hash=e0bb4da6ab7cba5c8936cbe1e4b78c787f352db9)[/url]20240917_090925 (https://flic.kr/p/2qgXwAZ) (https://www.flickr.com/photos/201436587@N06/), on Flickr[/img]
And the original, per post #1 on this thread:
(https://[url=https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53990881203_29a7e25cbf_b.jpg)[/url]20240912_213441 (https://flic.kr/p/2qfZnY8) (https://www.flickr.com/photos/201436587@N06/), on Flickr
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Unusual, can you show us please?
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Thanks - just to be clear, it is the same PCN number, simply different (later) issue date and more complete info (i.e. the 'to' section has been completed).
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No need to assume that CEL will reject the appeal... they will. However, you have a 50:50 chance of success and if not, the ultimate dispute resolution service, the small claims track of the county court, assuming it ever gets that far.
If you have a separate PCM, I would suggest you start a separate thread for that so as not to cloud and mix the two issues.
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Thanks all, submitting today.
Coincidentally, received another notice today (different issue date of 11th Sept), but this time it contained the 'to' date and time.
I assume that as a default CEL will reject the initial appeal, leaving POPLA (and ultimately civil court) as recourse. V happy to go the full distance if required.
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OK. So send that appeal as the Keeper, verbatim.
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Yes, address is correct and unchanged in > 12 months
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Thanks both
Yes, I am the registered keeper and am in possession of V5C
That doesn't quite answer the question...
Before you send the above, can you please confirm that you are the registered keeper of the vehicle, and you have the vehicle's V5C document in your possession with the correct address?
Is there any possibility that the address was different at the time the PCN was issued?
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Thanks both
Yes, I am the registered keeper and am in possession of V5C, no changes in >12 months
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Before you send the above, can you please confirm that you are the registered keeper of the vehicle, and you have the vehicle's V5C document in your possession with the correct address? If not, please tell us as a different approach will be needed.
That notice has been issued an unusually long time after the incident, so worth us making sure.
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Easy one to defeat... as long as the unknown drivers identity is not revealed. There is no legal obligation on the known keeper (the recipient of the Notice to Keeper (NtK)) to reveal the identity of the unknown driver and no inference or assumptions can be made.
The NtK is not compliant with all the requirements of PoFA which means that if the unknown driver is not identified, they cannot transfer liability for the charge from the unknown driver to the known keeper.
Use the following as your appeal. No need to embellish or remove anything from it:
I am the keeper of the vehicle and I dispute your 'parking charge'. I deny any liability or contractual agreement and I will be making a complaint about your predatory conduct to your client landowner.
As your Notice to Keeper (NtK) does not fully comply with ALL the requirements of PoFA 2012, you are unable to hold the keeper of the vehicle liable for the charge. Partial or even substantial compliance is not sufficient. There will be no admission as to who was driving and no inference or assumptions can be drawn. Civil Enforcement has relied on contract law allegations of breach against the driver only.
The registered keeper cannot be presumed or inferred to have been the driver, nor pursued under some twisted interpretation of the law of agency. Your NtK can only hold the driver liable. Civil Enforcement have no hope at POPLA, so you are urged to save us both a complete waste of time and cancel the PCN.
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Howdy all
Received this delightful little number in the post on Sept 7th.
It claims 'payment not made.' The driver paid using a physical pay machine on site. The driver does not recall whether physical tickets are issued from pay machines at this location, and no display ticket (if issued) has been retained. The driver has a debit on their bank account on the date in question to CEL Ltd. The driver's bank has confirmed that the transaction occurred 3 minutes after the alleged offence, with payment being received by Civil Enforcement Ltd. Evidence of this can be provided. This corresponds to the driver's Google timeline which shows arrival at the location moments before a ticket was purchased.
The driver is unable to revisit the location to take photos of signage at this stage.
Front Page
(https://www.ftla.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F%5Burl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fflic.kr%2Fp%2F2qfZnY8%5D%5Bimg%5Dhttps%3A%2F%2Flive.staticflickr.com%2F65535%2F53990881203_29a7e25cbf_b.jpg&hash=ff04330880aea6c7eee9447d0b2952a74c8ca8e9)[/url]20240912_213441 (https://flic.kr/p/2qfZnY8) (https://www.flickr.com/photos/201436587@N06/), on Flickr[/img]
Back Page
(https://www.ftla.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F%5Burl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fflic.kr%2Fp%2F2qfYbxH%5D%5Bimg%5Dhttps%3A%2F%2Flive.staticflickr.com%2F65535%2F53990647671_16e6bb25a0_b.jpg&hash=b80110294b94b2566d9953147d5b3f74115a2fe5)[/url]20240912_213530 (https://flic.kr/p/2qfYbxH) (https://www.flickr.com/photos/201436587@N06/), on Flickr[/img]
It's been a while since I've received one of these, but as a default, doesn't the 'from' and 'to' time need to be completed for validity (or is that only Penalty Charge Notices)?
And whilst not mandatory for validity/ enforcement (I think?), in looking at several other Civil Enforcement PCNs posted on this site, they seem to contain photographic 'evidence,' whereas this one does not.
Note I have not yet appealed to CEL.
Thanks for any assistance!