Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: a.b on September 11, 2024, 04:14:28 pm
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The draft was deliberately written in such a way that, if this goes to the Tribunal, they would have to explain their departures from the TSM, even though the wording does not say "must".
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The signage is indeed poor and there is a lack of road markings too. Bear in mind the OP also sailed past mandatory turn left arrows.
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That restriction sign is difficult to see with all the other signage before it. the only hint is the blue arrow pointing left with the except buses etc round sign.
+1
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That restriction sign is difficult to see with all the other signage before it. the only hint is the blue arrow pointing left with the except buses etc round sign.
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Thank you! I'll get that sent off and reply back when there's an update.
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TSM Chapter Three:
9.7.2. The upright signs need to be placed as near as practicable to the point where the
restriction commences, but there is no specific requirement to provide a sign on each side of the
carriageway. This relaxation has been made to reduce environmental impact, but care should
be taken to ensure that a single sign is clearly visible to all road users and does not give rise
to issues relating to enforcement or road safety. This might require the sign in some instances
to be placed on the off side of the road. There are likely to be some situations where two signs
will still be preferable. Drivers should not be placed in the situation where they might not see
the sign before starting to turn at a road junction. Also, at a junction where the side road is at an
acute angle with the major road, two signs might be required so that it is clear as to which road
the prohibition applies
9.7.8. The marking to diagram 1048.5 is optional and might be particularly useful where there
is only one upright sign (see 9.7.2). It should never be used as a substitute for the upright
signs (particularly where the route is for buses only and no other vehicles are permitted); the
Regulations prescribe the marking as being for a road that may be used by vehicles indicated
on upright signs
I will craft a draft for you later.
****
Dear Camden
PCN
VRM
I make this formal representation in support of having the PCN cancelled.
Three
1. The signage is inadequate. I rely upon this passage from TSM Chapter Three:
9.7.2. The upright signs need to be placed as near as practicable to the point where the
restriction commences, but there is no specific requirement to provide a sign on each side of the
carriageway. This relaxation has been made to reduce environmental impact, but care should
be taken to ensure that a single sign is clearly visible to all road users and does not give rise
to issues relating to enforcement or road safety. This might require the sign in some instances
to be placed on the off side of the road. There are likely to be some situations where two signs
will still be preferable.
Drivers should not be placed in the situation where they might not see
the sign before starting to turn at a road junction. Also, at a junction where the side road is at an
acute angle with the major road, two signs might be required so that it is clear as to which road
the prohibition applies
2. Further there is a plethora of signage at the onside of the road at the junction.
3. Also, the van obscured my view of the said signage.
4. There should also be a legend to diagram 1048.5 placed on the carriageway. I rely upon the following:
9.7.8. The marking to diagram 1048.5 is optional and might be particularly useful where there
is only one upright sign (see 9.7.2). It should never be used as a substitute for the upright
signs (particularly where the route is for buses only and no other vehicles are permitted); the
Regulations prescribe the marking as being for a road that may be used by vehicles indicated
on upright signs
In light of the above, please cancel the PCN
Yours
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The fault is mine for whizzing past. As you say, the signage could be clearer.
Like this one just around the corner - https://maps.app.goo.gl/Gh4d3bxqRHnn6crk8
Or this one here which is much more explicit: https://maps.app.goo.gl/6guK44xS1hp3bM666
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(https://i.imgur.com/moEiiZQ.gif)
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Well, having looked at the video, you might struggle with this PCN.
Video shows a van turning left, then you shooting past at what looks to be much more than the 20mph speed limit ! An adjudicator could well think it's your own fault for not riding slowly enough to take in the various road signs and their meaning !
On the other hand, there really should be two signs here, one each side of the road, with the heavy bus traffic on this street, obscuration of the single sign is almost guaranteed to occur. Of course, most people just cough-up so these sign issues never get aired.
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If you turn right from here: https://maps.app.goo.gl/DRymsr1t4h8juH4w5 and follow the motorbike, at the next set of traffic lights, that is where the contravention occurred.
There are no road markings or signage until that point.
The first picture also shows I was behind a DPD van as well which may have obscured signage on approach.
I took this picture a few hours ago.
(https://i.imgur.com/ZGqWLK7.jpeg)
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Can you get us pictures of current signage before you entered the road along with road markings?
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I don't normally travel on the bike to work, but on this date, I couldn't see the vehicle restriction sign and went through.
If anyone can help, that would be much appreciated.
(https://i.imgur.com/xYzSdT1.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/UlVloV9.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/wP12hrF.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/9HYJwVF.png)
https://maps.app.goo.gl/5EJFnkg82LpdhXtUA