Free Traffic Legal Advice

Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: Free Parking on August 02, 2023, 04:47:25 pm

Title: Re: Bus Lane PCN - Chelmsford
Post by: John U.K. on September 18, 2024, 07:20:11 am
Good evening all,

I'm new to the forum but have today received the exact same Bus Lane Penalty Charge Notice as FREE PARKING did.


Please to have a read of
https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/

and start your own thread (forum rule is one case per thread), and post there

a brief account of the circumastances,
all sides of the PCN, redactingh only yr name & address),
the video (this is the evidence) and any council photos,
and a GSV link to the location.

By all means reference this thread with a link in your own thread.
Title: Re: Bus Lane PCN - Chelmsford
Post by: Comports on September 17, 2024, 10:53:13 pm
Good evening all,

I'm new to the forum but have today received the exact same Bus Lane Penalty Charge Notice as FREE PARKING did.

Further reading suggests that the representation to challenge that was reviewed and rejected at Tribunal stage.

Could you please confirm that this is in fact the case and therefore that I should accept the charge notice and pay the £35 within 21 days to avoid the full £70?

I genuinely did not see any signs that I should not travel that route but it is not an area I have been to before - Thats not to say they were not there... I just did not see them.

Kind Regards in advance
Title: Re: Bus Lane PCN - Chelmsford
Post by: cp8759 on November 12, 2023, 11:20:23 pm
Looking at the on street signs the road is not signed as a bus lane but as a bus gate. Bus gate signage falls under moving traffic PCN’s. An example being sign 953 (https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2016/362/images/uksi_20160362_en_115) which would be contravention code 33 Using a route restricted to certain vehicles (buses and taxis only).

The sign used here is 953B (https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2016/362/images/uksi_20160362_en_117) but this sign is not listed (https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/6294ddfa8fa8f5039a1bd695/annex-a-traffic-signs-subject-to-moving-traffic_enforcement.pdf) as a sign that can be enforced under the TMA 2004.
As far as I'm aware Oxfordshire County Council, R (on the application of) v The Bus Lane Adjudicator [2010] EWHC 894 (Admin) (https://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Admin/2010/894.html) deals with that argument.
Title: Re: Bus Lane PCN - Chelmsford
Post by: Phantomcrusader on November 08, 2023, 04:55:10 pm
Looking at the on street signs the road is not signed as a bus lane but as a bus gate. Bus gate signage falls under moving traffic PCN’s. An example being sign 953 (https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2016/362/images/uksi_20160362_en_115) which would be contravention code 33 Using a route restricted to certain vehicles (buses and taxis only).

The sign used here is 953B (https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2016/362/images/uksi_20160362_en_117) but this sign is not listed (https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/6294ddfa8fa8f5039a1bd695/annex-a-traffic-signs-subject-to-moving-traffic_enforcement.pdf) as a sign that can be enforced under the TMA 2004.
Title: Re: Bus Lane PCN - Chelmsford
Post by: Hippocrates on November 08, 2023, 01:43:04 pm
I am speechless.
Title: Re: Bus Lane PCN - Chelmsford
Post by: Pastmybest on November 08, 2023, 01:29:25 pm
That's a decision that needs fighting at every chance a PI and other reasons are distinctly different which is why a PI is defined as it is
Title: Re: Bus Lane PCN - Chelmsford
Post by: cp8759 on November 07, 2023, 05:37:37 pm
Review outcome (https://drive.google.com/uc?id=1bpii7UYhQrWrnYGMffmyv0K_C5D5uS8V), which include an unlawful decision not to have a hearing, but it just wouldn't be worth pursuing this any further.
Title: Re: Bus Lane PCN - Chelmsford
Post by: Incandescent on October 27, 2023, 05:52:17 pm
Where did this adjudicator come from ! From what he is saying, there is no need for any of the statutory grounds to be shown on the PCN at all; if you can miss one, out you can miss them all out. All a council need do is put in an invitation to object to the PCN. One has to wonder why the regulations were written at all as it seems from what this adjudicator says, compliance with regulations that mandate the content of a statutory document is totally unnecessary, and they are merely guidance !

The case just illustrates the mountains motorists must climb.
Title: Re: Bus Lane PCN - Chelmsford
Post by: cp8759 on October 27, 2023, 05:07:40 pm
Outcome (https://drive.google.com/uc?id=1-VfV00YuaU7ufqEN-PM8OT95pkUMEiAq), review to follow.
Title: Re: Bus Lane PCN - Chelmsford
Post by: Free Parking on August 06, 2023, 08:26:32 pm
Please don't register anything, I'll drop you a PM.

Email sent, thank you CP
Title: Re: Bus Lane PCN - Chelmsford
Post by: cp8759 on August 06, 2023, 03:01:47 pm
Please don't register anything, I'll drop you a PM.
Title: Re: Bus Lane PCN - Chelmsford
Post by: Free Parking on August 06, 2023, 10:03:41 am
@Free Parking would you like me to represent you at the tribunal?

This would be an easy one and I'm skeptical that they'll contest, but you never know.

Yes please!. Do i have to let them no this in the trubunal registration?.


Thank you CP .
Title: Re: Bus Lane PCN - Chelmsford
Post by: Free Parking on August 06, 2023, 09:59:32 am
The person who wrote that letter won't even know what a statutory ground for appeal is !  The statement is, of course, tosh, so you should forego the discount and register an appeal at London Tribunals.

Had the PCN been issued under the London-specific legislation for bus lane enforcement, then the statutory grounds would have been correct and complete.

Thank you for the advice, much appreciated.
Title: Re: Bus Lane PCN - Chelmsford
Post by: cp8759 on August 05, 2023, 07:34:17 pm
@Free Parking would you like me to represent you at the tribunal?

This would be an easy one and I'm skeptical that they'll contest, but you never know.
Title: Re: Bus Lane PCN - Chelmsford
Post by: Incandescent on August 04, 2023, 08:54:46 pm
The person who wrote that letter won't even know what a statutory ground for appeal is !  The statement is, of course, tosh, so you should forego the discount and register an appeal at London Tribunals.

Had the PCN been issued under the London-specific legislation for bus lane enforcement, then the statutory grounds would have been correct and complete.
Title: Re: Bus Lane PCN - Chelmsford
Post by: Free Parking on August 04, 2023, 08:01:02 pm
Evening All,

Received notice of rejection of representation in the post today -

https://ibb.co/mXRPSQj
https://ibb.co/hYq3tWK
https://ibb.co/8x1Kv6n
https://ibb.co/PYvg0M7

They seem to think everything is in order with there PCN.
Title: Re: Bus Lane PCN - Chelmsford
Post by: Free Parking on August 03, 2023, 12:20:32 am
Thank you very much for your help @Incandescent, your knowledge is second to none.

And @cp8759 Thank you for your time for drafting my representations and steering me here today, i will report back with an update from the appeal.
Title: Re: Bus Lane PCN - Chelmsford
Post by: Free Parking on August 03, 2023, 12:07:35 am
[attachimg=1]

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Bus Lane PCN - Chelmsford
Post by: cp8759 on August 02, 2023, 11:21:01 pm
Spot on @Incandescent

Draft representations:

Dear Essex County Council,

I challenge liability for PCN ES55411816 on the basis of a procedural impropriety. Specifically the statutory grounds of appeal at regulation 5(4)(g) and (f) of The Civil Enforcement of Road Traffic Contraventions (Representations and Appeals) (England) Regulations 2022 are missing from the Enforcement Notice that has been served. That is a procedural impropriety on the basis of which the penalty charge must be cancelled.


Yours faithfully,

As always send them online and keep a screenshot of the confirmation screen.
Title: Re: Bus Lane PCN - Chelmsford
Post by: Incandescent on August 02, 2023, 08:35:02 pm
Yes.
In May 2022, new regulations were introduced for the Traffic Management Act 2004 and at the same time, councils outside London, enforcing bus lanes under earlier legislation, were transferred to the bus lane process defined in the TMA 2004 and its supporting regulations of May 2022.  This meant that the PCN templates for bus lanes had to be changed to reflect the new regulations.

Here they aren't changed correctly.  The corrct Act and regulations are there, but the PCN is void some of the statutory grounds for appealing in the regulations are omitted. Omitting these is a procedural impropriety and thus the PCN is void.

Howver wait for the others to confirm I am correct, (but I'm sure I am !!).

This forum has shown, over the years, how totally thick and stupid some councils are. Here is a typical council.
Title: Re: Bus Lane PCN - Chelmsford
Post by: Free Parking on August 02, 2023, 08:00:14 pm
Thank you for taking the time to have a look at this for me incandescent.

So are you saying there is a flaw with this pcn and it is not valid ?
Title: Re: Bus Lane PCN - Chelmsford
Post by: Incandescent on August 02, 2023, 07:47:03 pm
Hang on ! According to the PCN it is issued under the TMA 2004 and associated regulations of 2022, so the statutory grounds are incomplete.

(
Quote
2) An enforcement notice must include the following information—

(a)that—
(i)the recipient may make representations against the penalty charge in accordance with regulation 5 of these Regulations, but
(ii)any such representations made outside the period of 28 days beginning with the date on which the notice is served (“the payment period”) may be disregarded;
(b)the nature of the representations which may be made under regulation 5;

Representations against the enforcement notice
5.—(1) The recipient may make representations against the enforcement notice to the enforcement authority which served it on the recipient.

(2) The representations must be—

(a)made in the form determined by the enforcement authority, and
(b)to either or both of the following effects—
(i)that in relation to the alleged contravention, one or more of the grounds specified in paragraph (4) apply;
(ii)that, whether or not any of those grounds apply, there are compelling reasons why, in the particular circumstances of the case, the enforcement authority should cancel the penalty charge and refund any sum paid to it on account of the penalty charge.
(3) In determining the form for making representations, the enforcement authority must act through the joint committee.

Quote
(4) The grounds mentioned in paragraph (2)(b)(i) are—

(a)the alleged contravention did not occur;
(b)the recipient—
(i)never was the owner of the vehicle in question,
(ii)had ceased to be its owner before the alleged contravention occurred, or
(iii)became its owner after the alleged contravention occurred;
(c)at the time that the alleged contravention occurred, the vehicle in question was in the control of a person who did not have the consent of the owner;
(d)the recipient is a vehicle-hire firm and—
(i)the vehicle in question was at the material time hired from that firm under a hiring agreement, and
(ii)the person hiring it had signed a statement of liability acknowledging their liability in respect of any penalty charge notice served in respect of any relevant road traffic contravention involving the vehicle during the currency of the hiring agreement;
(e)the penalty charge exceeded the amount applicable in the circumstances of the case;
(f)there has been a procedural impropriety on the part of the enforcement authority;
(g)the order which is alleged to have been contravened in relation to the vehicle concerned, except where it is an order to which Part 6 of Schedule 9 to the RTRA 1984 applies, is invalid;
(h)if a regulation 10 penalty charge notice is served under regulation 10(2)(b) or (c) of the 2022 General Regulations, no person prevented a civil enforcement officer from—
(i)fixing a regulation 9 penalty charge notice to the vehicle concerned, or
(ii)handing such a notice to the owner or person in charge of the vehicle;
(i)the enforcement notice should not have been served because—
(i)the penalty charge has already been paid in full, or
(ii)the penalty charge has been paid, reduced by the amount of any discount set in accordance with Schedule 9 to the TMA 2004, by the applicable date as specified in paragraph 1(3) of Schedule 3 to the 2022 General Regulations.
Title: Re: Bus Lane PCN - Chelmsford
Post by: Free Parking on August 02, 2023, 05:52:36 pm
Thanks John. Not sure how that happened .
Title: Re: Bus Lane PCN - Chelmsford
Post by: John U.K. on August 02, 2023, 05:38:21 pm
Your link was broken in transit!

Here
https://goo.gl/maps/zpNooHs6srqafSKE8
Title: Bus Lane PCN - Chelmsford
Post by: Free Parking on August 02, 2023, 04:47:25 pm
Hi all ,


Been redirected here from Pepipoo by cp8759, thank you for that.


If anyone gets a chance to have a look at this to see if it is valid and the legislation is correct i would appreciate it.

https://ibb.co/xCWRj0z
https://ibb.co/4P1nJzR
https://ibb.co/DkPcNJ1
https://ibb.co/zX2vbXh

Streetview link-


https://www.google.com/maps/@51.7362478,0.4...i8192?entry=ttu