Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: FaeLLe on September 06, 2024, 11:28:35 pm
-
Outcome (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1q2Mw5yMwu-6uvdocpEKkG6h1pPjHjFg6/view).
-
After a long period of inactivity the status suddenly changed to Charge Certificate batched!
Is this the right process?
Status history
27 November 2024
Charge Certificate Batched
N/A
11 October 2024
Representation submitted Under review
-
I just checked the PCN status, and it seems they have 'Batched' the PCN on 13-Sep-2024 (today).
Current status: PCN Issued
Outstanding amount: £ 80.00
PCN status history
13 September 2024 PCN Batched
N/A
13 September 2024 On Hold: SUS40 - Statutory Declaration Receipt
N/A
10 September 2024 On Hold: SUS40 - Statutory Declaration Receipt
N/A
08 July 2024 On Hold: SUS40 - Statutory Declaration Receipt
N/A
02 July 2024 On Hold: SUS36 - OoT Statutory Declaration Notification Received
N/A
-
Raised a SAR through email using their form with the same content in body of email along with required documents.
I have my fingers crossed now.
-
@FaeLLe as far as I understand the position, your witness statement was filed with TEC on the ground that the original PCN was not received.
TFL are required to use the address on the TE9 form, but in practice it doesn't matter what address they use as you don't need to receive the new PCN, you just need to know that it has been issued. This can be done by checking the PCN on a regular basis on https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/challenge-a-pcn and looking at the PCN status (check once a week), once the PCN has been reissued a new entry will appear stating "PCN Batched", once that happens you can make representations irrespective of the fact that you have not received the PCN in your hands.
In the meantime please call TFL on 0343 222 3333 and ask for the video, they will send you a DVD in the post.
I also suggest you make a subject access request to TFL as this has previously put PCNs on hold for a month, and if they don't issue a fresh PCN within 28 days then they'll be out of time.
Lastly when you do eventually make representations, include a request for the make and model of the camera in the representation itself, these requests get dealt with by a different team and they'll disclose the camera information without any fuss.
-
I paid for a copy of the order and TEC sent it to me this morning: TEC decision after filing TE9 and TE3 form - 03 Sep 2024 (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1lbhDygJ7lZN85D3fBlTkQ5geWxjbFRsZ/)
Contrary to what the agent told me last time it seems the Charge Certificate has been cancelled and TFL was notified.
What should my next steps be?
- I have already updated the correct address with TEC
- Should I update my address with TFL? I guess through correspondence with their PCN team and Data Privacy team as a GDPR request?
- Wait for NtO and make representations?
Do the points above make sense as grounds for appeal be once I receive the NtO (basically no observation period, PCN issued not in compliance with TFL enforcement policies and the images do not demonstrate contravention)?
-
Indeed. I was going to say what's going on with:
You didn't get the PCN?
What do you mean:
TE9 & TE7 filed with TEC (rejected by TEC)
Registered keeper became aware of the PCN from the resident of the previous address (it was the order for recovery posted out I think). Unfortunately, they went on holiday so they could only give me the PCN number.
The registered keeper has records showing that the DVLA was still processing the address change on V5C in April 2024; TFL batched PCN in March 2024.
The registered keeper then filed TE9 and TE7 with TEC, which were rejected (I became aware of this by calling TEC). I believe the TEC rejection was posted to the company address included on the TEC forms.
A company correspondence address was used since the registered keeper did not have a fixed abode (the company refused to release the post to me when it went into liquidation).
From my recent experience dealing with PCNs from Southwark, I have learned that the address mentioned on TEC forms is being ignored, and they are continuing to correspond to the original address.
-
@FaeLLe where's the TEC rejection?
I was told by TEC that the rejection should have been sent to be my the Applicant and there is no reason provided by the Court Officer.
Would you like me to pay for a copy of the rejection? The TEC agent said I will not get anything of use within it as the court officer does not have to provide a rejection.
Should I do a SAR with TFL as well?
-
Indeed. I was going to say what's going on with:
You didn't get the PCN?
What do you mean:
TE9 & TE7 filed with TEC (rejected by TEC)
-
@FaeLLe where's the TEC rejection?
-
A vehicle was spotted at a parking bay on a Red Route in New Kent Road. Apparently, parking restrictions apply between 7AM and 7PM at this bay, so the vehicle was first spotted (according to TFL evidence) 11 minutes before the restrictions ended, and the PCN contravention time states the contravention occurred 9 minutes before the parking restrictions ended.
TE9 and TE7 forms were
Considering only a 3-minute observation period was maintained, is the PNC flawed? It seems contrary to the guidance published by TFL (https://content.tfl.gov.uk/myths-and-complaints-about-red-route-enforcement.pdf).
Additionally, the pictures obviously (IMHO) do not provide evidence that the vehicle was parked in the bay in a manner that was not permitted. They do not clearly show whether a blue badge was present or not and if valid loading/unloading activities were being performed.
Another observation is that the camera seems to have changed between December 2022 and the current one (pictures below). However, TFL has stated in their FOI that they don’t need any approvals to change the cameras.
@cp8757 I know you had an interesting case with TFL about approved cameras. Would any of that apply to this case? In the FOI, they invoked their exemption rights. They refused to provide camera details since they are withholding the identification of cameras, which could reveal if the camera was a ULEZ one or not (public interest exemption). So, the only way to get details of whether the camera is approved will be subject to TFL pleadings at court regarding this matter.
PCN number: GX13671118
VRM: V11KDV
Location of alleged contravention: Outside 173a New Kent Road (https://maps.app.goo.gl/iAUq92AGqeADoQiS6)
Alleged Contravention date and time: 09 March 2024 at 18:51
Current status: Notice of Debt Registration Issued
PCN Outstanding amount (as on 06-Sep-2024): £ 250.00
TE9 & TE7 filed with TEC (rejected by TEC): 26-Jun-2024 - Redacted copy uploaded at this link (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1S8J-VJHQXMWlJG4HztGsjQlup8wTodsZ/)
Location of CCTV camera: Approximately at the junction of New Kent Rd / Balfour Street (pictures below) (https://maps.app.goo.gl/Djx8yEJkeqLjKNsD6)
O/S 163-183 NEW KENT ROAD SE1
FOI request for camera details: FOI-0915-2425 (https://tfl.gov.uk/corporate/transparency/freedom-of-information/foi-request-detail?referenceId=FOI-0915-2425)
Current CCTV camera: Replaced at some point between Aug 2022 and Dec 2022 (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1vghNp9B0zDibTsdRx-xpiD7BfMUZncE9/)
Interestingly, TFL has started forcing Google Maps to redact/pixelate the camera's pictures (possibly to align with their position of trying to hide ULEZ cameras).
Previous CCTV camera: Still present on Aug 2022 (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1JhrCSiApeo9vblnAeCxuxxhdqAMn7xVT/)
PCN evidence 1: 18:49.36.7 GMT - https://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=100s7CPSKySIKKgM_404Y_YahnmRCTuzW
PCN evidence 2: 18:49.39.3 GMT - https://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=19SHMafWIV5L6SW96xEf-6X1pTZBEYoXD
PCN evidence 3: 18:51.33.3 GMT - https://drive.google.com/uc?export=view&id=1SnExlJ5ZPExakJsafkueyd5qpskmR81_[/b]