Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Private parking tickets => Topic started by: oowdoo on September 06, 2024, 07:57:34 pm
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The landowner or their agent have instructed VCS to cancel and so the IAS has been told to drop it by VCS. I would bet that had VCS not been told to drop it by the organ grinder, the IAS would have rejected the appeal.
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Excellent - keep hold of that email just in case but it sounds like that will be the end of the matter.
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I've also now had confirmation via the IAS:
"Thank you for your appeal. Due to further information Vehicle Control Services Ltd has confirmed they will no longer be pursuing the matter and the parking charge has been cancelled."
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Engaging with the landowner once again prevails. Make sure you do chase up if VCS don't get the memo.
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The charge has (hopefully) been dropped now. After some more communication with Ioan, he has this morning confirmed VCS will drop the charge...
"Having looked at the evidence I can confirm that VCS have been instructed to cancel your penalty notice. Therefore, you should stop receiving correspondence from them.
Please don’t hesitate to contact me if this is not the case and they continue to chase you for payment.
I apologise for the inconvenience this has caused you.
Best wishes
Ioan"
Thanks everyone for your help in this matter, all the leverage has certainly helped.
:) :)
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Hopefully you at least used “ex-clamper
thugs”
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@DWMB2 - Yes tried them all.
@b789 - I used the tone of your messages/letters, but didn't get overly personal such as using the word thugs etc.
I've asked for Ioan to let me know the progress on my complaint, and where we are with VCS, still awaiting a reply.
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Ioan seems to be part of the press office.
Have you tried firstname.lastname@magairports.com format to reach the Steve Griffiths you're trying to contact?
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Stop worrying about the IAS. You have less than a 4% chance of that being successful.
Have you responded to the email from whoever this Ioan is? Ask what is the status of your complaint.
What “tone” did you decide to take?
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Unfortunately there have been no responses, apart from an email from Ioan Reed-Aspley <ioan.reed-aspley@eastmidlandsairport.com>, he did reply to say "Thank you for your email. We will look into this for you."
This was in response to the email I wanted to send to Steve Griffiths, but all tested email addresses to Steve bounced back with unable to delivery.
Time is running out, so need to appeal to the IAS.
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Thanks everyone, I'll let you know how it all goes :) :)
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Ce n'est pas "C'est la vie", c'est "C'est la guerre". ???
Ich verstehe nur Bahnhof ;)
OP, the factual points in b789's proposed letter are good so I'd recommend using them. The tone is yours to decide.
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Ce n'est pas "C'est la vie", c'est "C'est la guerre". ???
These are always suggestions. If being respectful does not get you anywhere, you will regret not having used expressions that reflect your feelings about the people you are dealing with. Some of us don't suffer fools gladly.
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Agreed. A response is sensible, but my personal view is always that one's tone is best kept professional, separating fact from emotion. The points the letter makes are good. The goal is presumably for the matter to be escalated, as Edward is probably just a customer service rep instructed to respond to complaints with pro-forma points.
Referring to "thugs", "monkeys" and "responsible adults" doesn't really add any material information to the letter - the same points can be made without playground insults, and in my view a letter that sticks to the facts might be more likely to be taken seriously and escalated up the chain, which is presumably what you want.
That said, it's your name that's going on the letter, so it's your choice what language you decide is appropriate.
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OP, I'd tone it down, but c'est la vie.
The language is OTT and IMO counter-productive: organ-grinder and monkey, evasions, ignorance etc. etc. have no place in such correspondence when you do not hold the trump cards.
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A response to the EMA 'Customer Feedback Team' would not go amiss. Here is a suggested response:
Dear Edward,
Thank you for your response, though I must express my exasperation with its numerous inaccuracies and evasions. Your claim that “VCS, also known as Excel Parking” is incorrect. While VCS and Excel may share directors, they are distinctly separate legal entities with different company registration numbers. Should they unlawfully exchange my data or initiate legal action in confusion of these entities, that would be illegal and EMA would be jointly and severally liable as the contractor.
Additionally, your reference to VCS issuing “fines” is concerning. As an unregulated private parking company, VCS cannot issue fines—only statutory authorities hold that power. What they issue are speculative invoices. It is not only unacceptable for an EMA representative to mischaracterise them as fines but to highlight such ignorance as you have done in your correspondence, is quite frankly an embarrassment.
Your claim that EMA cannot assist in this matter is simply an attempt to fob me off. If you are not already aware, as the landholder, EMA is jointly and severally liable for the actions of its agent, VCS, and you could easily instruct them to cancel this charge, particularly since the emergency stop in question was necessitated by a mechanical failure, which is exempt under the East Midlands Bylaws 2001, section 4(3) and 4(4).
It is also worth pointing out that if EMA wished to hold owners or keepers liable under the airport bylaws, that would be within your authority as the landowner, although this has not been pleaded and is not legally possible here. VCS, as a third party, is definitely not the airport owner, and their 'parking charge' is purely for their own profit. Unlike a penalty under the bylaws, which would go to the public purse, VCS’s charge is based solely on contract law, and their allegations only apply to the driver.
As the registered keeper, I cannot be assumed or inferred to have been the driver, nor can I be pursued under any distorted interpretation of agency law. VCS has issued an invoice that, by law, can only hold the driver liable, not the keeper.
It appears that there is a lack of understanding here about who is the organ-grinder and who is the monkey in this contractual relationship. Rather than allowing your agent (the monkey) to act unchecked, I suggest that this matter be escalated as a formal complaint to the highest levels of management. Given the potential legal ramifications, it may also be wise for a responsible adult to ensure your legal advisors are aware of EMA’s potential liability if VCS is found to have behaved unreasonably should this escalate to litigation, as is the modus operandi of this firm of ex-clamper thugs.
I expect this matter to be taken seriously and for VCS to be instructed to cancel this PCN without delay.
Yours sincerely,
[Your Name]
Registered Keeper of [Vehicle Registration]
[Your Address]
[Your Contact Information]
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Where is the Notice to Keeper and VCS's reply?
Where is the mechanic's statement that they replaced a clutch cylinder?
How did the driver 'inspect' the vehicle for the cause of the claimed failure?
OP, to give an alternative view...
Action doesn't necessarily mean progress. For example, whether the airport customer service agent knows the distinction between VCS and Excel is IMO irrelevant and a dead-end. How could you expect airport management to arbitrate when they have no hard evidence in front of them: IMO a passenger's statement is hardly likely to be seen as independent, the mechanic knows nothing other than that they replaced a cylinder and the registered keeper isn't claiming to have any first-hand knowledge of the matter.
But if you want to try, then do so. But be realistic as to the likely outcome.
Do you have a copy of VCS video which alone forms the basis of their case? If not, then I suggest you SAR them.
Do you have confirmation from any competent body that the location is subject to Airport By-laws?
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If you are sending both as an email and letter, it might be sensible to indicate as such on both, as a courtesy.
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@b789 Thanks for taking the time to write this out, I'll send the letter in both forms :)
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Why not try going to the top of the management food chain directly? If an email address was not found, a postal address is certainly easy enough to find.
Sending a complaint with a free proof of posting certificate is one way to start the complaint process. Also, you could try sending the complaint as a pdf attachment to Steve.griffiths@eastmeidlandsairport.com.
Here is a suggestion you could tweak as necessary:
Steve Griffiths
Chief Executive Officer
East Midlands Airport
Castle Donington
Derby DE74 2SA
[Date]
Subject: Formal Complaint Regarding Parking Charge Notice and Unacceptable Response from Customer Service
Dear Mr Griffiths,
I am writing to formally complain about a Parking Charge Notice (PCN) issued by Vehicle Control Services (VCS) for a vehicle for which I am the registered keeper. This charge was issued following a brief emergency stop caused by a mechanical failure, which is clearly exempt under Section 4(4) of the East Midlands Airport Byelaws.
VCS continues to pursue this charge based on the assumption that I, as the registered keeper, was the driver—an argument that was dismissed in the persuasive appeal case of VCS v Edward [HOKF6C9C] 2023. As they are fully aware, there is no presumption in law that the registered keeper is the driver, yet VCS persists in making this baseless claim.
Additionally, your customer service team, referred to this speculative invoice as a “fine.” This is a fundamental error. VCS, as an unregulated private company, cannot issue fines, which can only be imposed by statutory authorities. The customer service team should be able to distinguish between a speculative invoice from a private parking company and an actual fine.
While I do not intend to escalate this matter to court, if VCS chooses to do so—following their usual vexatious modus operandi—I will hold East Midlands Airport jointly and severally liable for any unreasonable behaviour by VCS. I also have a signed witness statement from a passenger in the vehicle at the time, confirming that the stop was unavoidable due to the mechanical failure and falls under the emergency exemption in the byelaws.
Attached is a copy of the Notice to Keeper for your reference. I expect immediate action to cancel this unlawful PCN and a review of the inadequate response from your customer service team.
Yours sincerely,
[Your Name]
Registered Keeper of [Vehicle Registration]
[Your Address]
[Your Contact Information]
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Although both VCS and Excel Parking are distinct legal entities, they do share directors and the same company address. Make sure you don't confuse the two though! It's concerning that East Midlands Airport don't even know who is enforcing their byelaws...
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I contacted the Airport using their website. There didn't seem any other way to contact them. Their reply:
"Thank you for getting in contact with us. By way of introduction, my name is Edward and I am one of the Customer Feedback Team for East Midlands Airport.
VCS, also known as Excel Parking, are a third party company who enforce the "No Stopping" zone in operation in and around the airport site, issuing fines to people in contravention of this. As such, you would need to take any correspondence in appeal of your fine up with them directly. We would not be able to assist with this.
You should find the information to appeal your fine in any correspondence they have sent you, including any escalation process as necessary, or you can also visit https://excelparkingservices.co.uk/contact/.
While we would not be able to assist further with this matter, I hope this helps point you in the right direction.
Kind regards,
Edward
Customer Feedback Team
Olympic House, Manchester Airport, M90 1QX"
I also posted this on MSE, and a couple of people have pointed out VCS are a different company to Excel Parking and I need to go back to Edward/Airport to escalate further. So I'll look into this.
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Quick update, the airport wasn't interested in what I had to say to them, they just said to contact VCS or use the appeals process.
How did you contact the airport? Phone, email/letter? How high up the management food chain did you aim?
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Yes, the statements don't mention who the driver was in any way.
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Those answers seem right. Have you checked that the witness statements do not unintentionally reveal who was driving?
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Quick update, the airport wasn't interested in what I had to say to them, they just said to contact VCS or use the appeals process.
We have now got a witness statement signed and dated from a passenger in the vehicle as well as the mechanic that diagnosed the fault and then replaced the clutch system.
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I'm on the IAS website, looking at what details they are wanting to enter, I guess all we need to enter are:
Myself;
Yes;
I am not prepared to say;
Yes
I haven't entered anything yet...
" Enter Motorist Details
Who are you representing / appealing the Notice of Unpaid Tariff on behalf of?
Choose: Another Person / Myself
Are you being held liable for the charge?
Choose: Yes / No
Were you the driver at the relevant time?
Choose: Yes / No / I am not prepared to say
Were you the keeper at the relevant time?
Choose: Yes / No "
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OK, I'll show you on here first :)
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Don't send anything without showing us drafts of what you plan to send.
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Yes, I will get the mechanics statement and send that along with other proof. Thanks
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Whilst all the above is true, and valid things to include in your defence, I think it would be sensible if the matter got to court to also run an argument around the mechanical failure, on the basis that even if they could recover any unpaid charges from the keeper (which will be denied) and even if a contract had been formed (which will also be denied), any such contract would have been frustrated, the driver's compliance with the terms being impossible due to matters outside of his control.
I think where one has a meritorious defence in addition to any technical ones, it is sensible to run it, and them continuing to pursue the matter after this issue has already been pointed out to them can be highlighted as evidence of their unreasonable behaviour.
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@b789 Thanks for taking the time to reply with all the detail you have. If they are ultimately unable to slap the charge on myself due to not naming the driver we'll be happy to take this as far as they want, but I'd like to hear how hard it could get.
Cheers
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Hopefully, your complaint to the airport will bear fruit, but don't hold your breath. It is good news that you haven't identified the driver although you may want to edit your OP as they way you have explained it, it is fairly obvious who the driver is, although no one but you knows their identity... for now. You are Keeper and you refer to everything that the driver did. NO "I did this and that". Only "the driver did this and that".
As you are dealing with a vexatious bunch of ex-clamping thugs, you are not going to get anywhere with this by appealing to either VCS or the IAS. The only way this will ever be resolved is if it goes all the way to the ultimate dispute resolution service, the small claims track of the county court, where a judge would decide whether the keeper owes VCS a debt or not.
Whilst you quoted the airport bylaws, you have not been issued a penalty notice under those bylaws. You have been issued an invoice for an alleged breach of contract by the driver. Very different thing.
The primary defence will be that VCS cannot hold the Keeper liable for the actions of the unknown (to them) driver. As the airport is land that is under statutory control (bylaws), it is not "relevant land" for the purposes of PoFA. PoFA is the stupid law that allows a PPC to transfer liability for the charge from the unknown driver to the Keeper, even if the Keeper was not driving or even in the car.
This little tidbit from VCS's response to you: "...we will continue to pursue this matter on the reasonable assumption that you were the driver..." just goes to prove their intellectual malnourishment and vexatiousness. There is plenty of persuasive case law to put that silly argument to bed. VCS will not be allowed to infer or presume that the Keeper must have also been the driver. If you're interested, here is a recent appeal case with the same company that proves the point I'm making: VCS v Edward (https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/zra61px7l3if53o3bp9c4/VCS-v-EDWARD-Transcript.pdf?rlkey=bv4bba389nau5qpfglqkpjq5l&st=udor3a27&dl=0).
There is no point trying an IAS appeal, even though others will disagree. With a less than 5% of being successful, it is up to you if you'd like to put ay effort into it.
What you will have to do is weather the stream of debt collector letters you are going to receive before they eventually (they may never) send you a Letter of Claim (LoC). If/when you get one of those, come back and we'll advise on a response and subsequent actions.
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Hi,
I received a charge notice for my van stopping before a roundabout for less than 2 minutes in the early morning. The reason for the stop was the clutch slave cylinder had failed with no warning. The pedal went straight to the floor and vehicle stalled. Unable to initially get it in gear and driving again. It was then able to get in gear and continue driving out of the airport.
A new clutch kit (including master slave cylinder) was purchased from ebay the very same day, and gave VCS evidence of the purchase and receipt. As well as saying we would be willing to show them confirmation of the fitting by the professional mechanic if required.
We've already done an appeal to VCS, I didn't name the driver.
I highlighted the Airport byelaws for an emergency stop. Quoting the official East Midlands Airport byelaws document:
Section 4. Prohibited acts on parts of the airport to which the road traffic enactments do not apply.
(4) No person shall, EXCEPT AS REASONABLY NECESSARY IN THE CASE OF AN EMERGENCY, leave or park a vehicle or cause it to wait:-
(a) in an area where parking is prohibited by notice; or
(b) for a period in excess of the permitted time in an area where the period of waiting is restricted by notice.
VCS rejected the appeal stating "In your appeal it is unclear who the driver was when your vehicle was seen to be stopped on the access road. It is important we highlight that we will continue to pursue this matter on the reasonable assumption that you were the driver of the vehicle on the date in question until information/evidence to the contrary is provided.
We note your comment that you had a problem with your vehicle and stopped to investigate; however as stated, the
signs near to the location you stopped clearly stated "No Stopping" and warned that if you did so, you were liable for
the Charge displayed." VCS also suggested we should have called their helpline.
They ignored the fact this was an emergency stop, out of the driver's control, they didn't even acknowledge my reference to this, just saying "you had a problem with your vehicle and stopped to investigate".
And it obviously didn't occur to give them a call for the short amount of time it took, was just glad to be able to get out of the airport and didn't expect a less than 2-minute emergency stop to incur a charge notice.
A complaint message to the Airport has been sent today, about VCS Ltd ignoring the byelaws exemption for emergency stop situations which is detailed within their own 'east-midlands-airport-byelaws-2001-re-issued-september-2009.pdf'. And asked them for help in dismissing the case and awaiting a response.
Any additional help and advice are welcome.
Many thanks