Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: mhenry on September 04, 2024, 06:36:11 pm
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Well done you !!
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Just an update that this was eventually cancelled by Rotherham Council - Thank you all for your help
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You can use the letter Mr Anderson did - I would tweak it a bit as reps to the NTO.
I am making representations on the grounds that the contravention not occur.
In your letter you reference the parking bays in the area and do not dispute that my car was parked in one. I draw your attention to the following exemption to the contravention set out in law.
etc
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Just a bump on this as my time to reply to the NTO is limited :)
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Bingo - NTO arrived today.
Here's a link to the full notice. I assume I tick the box saying that the notice is invalid and include the previous information relating to the exception?
https://imgur.com/a/tCaZaEo
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They can be very dilatory in serving the Notice to Owner. In law they have up to 6 months to serve it from date of alleged contravention. Anything over 3 months, though, is usually regarded as unfair, so grounds for an appeal.
The PCN was dated 4th Sept wasn't it? So be patient the NTO will arrive some time in October.
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They can be very dilatory in serving the Notice to Owner. In law they have up to 6 months to serve it from date of alleged contravention. Anything over 3 months, though, is usually regarded as unfair, so grounds for an appeal.
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Not had anything through the post so far - Does it usually take so long?
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No need for impatience and thread clutter. The NTO is next.
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@Hippocrates..you're in to dodgy websites at the moment, ....
....try this for size!
https://www.rotherham.gov.uk/parking/pay-challenge-parking-ticket/2
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Yeah I get that, I mean there's no way to contact them since they e-mailed me their response from a no-reply e-mail address.
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What they want is not the issue.
Be passive or assertive, your choice.
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The point is moot anyway since they don't seem to want any dialogue following the letter. Still waiting for something through the post. I'll update when it comes :)
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I'm not normally one for grand statements in reps or, in this case, follow-up correspondence, but short of banging their heads together what can one do to resolve these issues at the earliest stage?
I agree about going back to try and shortcut the process but not with the full artillery after an informal rejection and prefer a more educational approach.
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I'm not normally one for grand statements in reps or, in this case, follow-up correspondence, but short of banging their heads together what can one do to resolve these issues at the earliest stage?
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@stamfordman, why lose the last sentence?
This is such a clear misunderstanding/misapplication of the law that motorists should be better served than having to put up with this nonsense and perhaps the only way to shake the system out of its complacent ignorance is to make such matters clear from the start, then so be it.
In short, if you do not apply the law correctly then be prepared for an application for costs.
We didn't use to recommend this and I can't see it adds anything useful. Besides, you are more likely to get costs if they dig their own hole.
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@stamfordman, why lose the last sentence?
This is such a clear misunderstanding/misapplication of the law that motorists should be better served than having to put up with this nonsense and perhaps the only way to shake the system out of its complacent ignorance is to make such matters clear from the start, then so be it.
In short, if you do not apply the law correctly then be prepared for an application for costs.
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Hi, yes the logbook is up to date. I didn't get any response from sending to info@... so just waiting on the notice now. will update when it arrives.
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Just wait for the NTO - is the logbook up to date with your address?
I would lose this last sentence:
If I am required to make representations against a NTO on these grounds and if such representations are rejected then I shall press for costs at adjudication.
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Ah, the e-mail address is donotreply@parkingportal.net
I've tried to send to info@... just to see if it gets through. If I can't get a response to them though I'll just wait for the notice and then make the same points I guess
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Thanks again for the advice, I agree with your comments that it seems worth continuing the challenge.
I will reply to his e-mail with the response you've suggested, although it does say at the bottom of the letter that "no further correspondence can be either undertaken or responded to, until you receive a notice to owner". I guess they don't like dialogue!
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I'd write back.
Dear Sir,
PCN ******
Thank you for your letter dated **** rejecting my representations against the above PCN.
I refer you to s86 of the Traffic Management Act 2004, which creates the prohibition referred to in the PCN. I have reproduced the relevant parts in full because this point needs to be reinforced to the authority:
86 Prohibition of parking at dropped footways etc.
(1)In a special enforcement area a vehicle must not be parked on the carriageway adjacent to a footway, cycle track or verge where—
(a)the footway, cycle track or verge has been lowered to meet the level of the carriageway for the purpose of—
(i)assisting pedestrians crossing the carriageway,
(ii)assisting cyclists entering or leaving the carriageway, or
(iii)assisting vehicles entering or leaving the carriageway across the footway, cycle track or verge; or
(b)the carriageway has, for a purpose within paragraph (a)(i) to (iii), been raised to meet the level of the footway, cycle track or verge.
This is subject to the following exceptions.
(2)The first exception is where the vehicle is parked wholly within a designated parking place or any other part of the carriageway where parking is specifically authorised.
A “designated parking place” means a parking place designated by order under section 6, 9, 32(1)(b) or 45 of the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984 (c. 27).
As you have confirmed that the location lies within a 'parking bay', then it follows as a matter of law that the exception specified in s86(2) applies.
I urge the authority to reconsider its decision and if in doubt then I recommend that the matter is referred to senior management.
If I am required to make representations against a NTO on these grounds and if such representations are rejected then I shall press for costs at adjudication.
YF
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This is the key part of the rejection;
(https://i.imgur.com/koIrc48.png)
I'd say this is wrong and you should go on with this. They have conceded there are parking bays.
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OK - So I sent them a response, challenging the notice on the grounds that there is a an except in the legislation as you stated for areas that are designated parking bays.
I have received a response rejecting my claim, without acknowledgment of that exception. I've checked 'rule 243 of the highway code' which does say about dropped kerbs, but there is no link on that rule to the relevant legislation.
I can't seem to attach anything to my posts so I've added a link to an image of the PDF.
https://imgur.com/a/cRIEMrz
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I agree with HCA. If you want to read more, here's a link to the TMA: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2004/18 (do a ctrl-f for "dropped" to jump to section 86)
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TMA:
[parking adjacent to a dropped footway]
This is subject to the following exceptions.
(2)The first exception is where the vehicle is parked wholly within a designated parking place or any other part of the carriageway where parking is specifically authorised.
A “designated parking place” means a parking place designated by order under section 6, 9, 32(1)(b) or 45 of the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984
Don't mistake 'designated' in the context of s86 TMA(definition given above) with s45 RTRA '45 Designation of paying parking places on highways.'
If it's a parking place on a road then IMO it's covered by the TMA exemption whether it's free or chargeable.
For some reason there aren't any traffic signs attached to this road marking, but IMO this is hardly a motorist's fault. What's the authority's case, that it isn't a parking place? Then why mislead motorists and waste public funds by painting the carriageway?
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Wait for others to have a look.
It would help if we had access to Rotherham's Traffweb system for traffic orders so we can see if they've designated these bays but it's password controlled.
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That's what I thought but a google search didn't help me at all. So I should just respond to the PCN to say I don't think this is enforceable as I'm parked within a clearly marked parking bay and see what they come back with?
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Dropped footways cannot be enforced in designated parking bays.
These are uncontrolled free parking bays though but clearly marked as bays.
(https://i.imgur.com/B9ekM4U.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/a1g7my2.jpeg)
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Hi,
I received this PCN for parking adjacent to a dropped kerb. Normally I would accept this however in this case I was parked within marked parking bays, so didn't notice the dropped kerb at all. Along the same street where there are access issues along the parked bays the non-parking areas are hatched out, and on the opposite side of the road the pavement is extended outwards into the road and the parking bays are ended.
So I was parked adjacent to a dropped kerb, but within a marked parking bay. Do I have grounds to appeal?
The road is here and you can see both up and down the street other areas of dropped kerb are crossed off to clearly show no parking:
https://www.google.com/maps/@53.4304996,-1.3752303,3a,75y,213.96h,77.58t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1swJgHaW-xfkowv7aMp6BwVg!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DwJgHaW-xfkowv7aMp6BwVg%26cb_client%3Dsearch.revgeo_and_fetch.gps%26w%3D96%26h%3D64%26yaw%3D179.14063%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192?coh=205409&entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI0MDgyOC4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D
Imagine of the 'offence': https://imgur.com/a/QMMNOCw (edited to add imagine of the PCN itself)