Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: Bullrat on September 04, 2024, 12:59:00 pm
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If this goes to the Tribunal, the council must adduce all the correspondence.
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ask for the representations.
Ask for a copy of their reps, but more importantly, ask if they have received a notice of acceptance of their representations, cancelling the original PCN. Otherwise the first remains uncancelled.
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Thanks for all of the replies so far. I will contact the garage tomorrow and ask for the representations. Once I receive these I will update on here. It seems like this is the best way to get the PCN cancelled at the moment.
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OP, do you understand what is being requested?
Self-evidently the PCN has been served out of time as worded. However, an exception applies in the case of a vehicle supplied under a vehicle-hiring agreement by a vehicle-hire company.
As you did not sign a vehicle-hiring agreement ('I didn't get a rental agreement') then the above exception cannot be relied upon by the garage. If the authority were foolish enough to cancel on the basis of non-prescribed evidence from the garage then tango sierra, this is their problem, not yours.
So, pl ask the garage for a copy of their representations and the authority's Notice of Acceptance of Representations.
But keep one eye on the calendar, although you may make reps no later than 1 Oct. I'd aim for no later than 25 Sept.
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In short, 28 from date the 'garage's' PCN was cancelled, not 6 months.
Which seems to suggest a need for the OP to contact the garage and ask when/if the original PCN was cancelled.
Does Enfield put the history of a PCN online?
I couldn't see a history when I got the video. In my experience most councils don't do timelines - TFL for all its other faults, does.
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In short, 28 from date the 'garage's' PCN was cancelled, not 6 months.
Which seems to suggest a need for the OP to contact the garage and ask when/if the original PCN was cancelled.
Does Enfield put the history of a PCN online?
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As I understand it:
2)Subject to the provisions of this section, where—
(a)a penalty charge notice has been cancelled under paragraph 2 of Schedule 1 to this Act;[ authority accept representations from RK to the effect that the vehicle was on hire],
then this time limit for serving a new PCN applies:
the borough council or Transport for London, as the case may be, may not serve a fresh penalty charge notice after the expiry of the period of 28 days from the date of the cancellation of the penalty charge notice
In short, 28 from date the 'garage's' PCN was cancelled, not 6 months.
The extended period here suggests that the OP's PCN is invalid by virtue of being served late.
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The contravention can also be challenged as you were signalling to move out of the box but fast moving cars prevented you and then the traffic started to move. Whether you were or not would have to be worded carefully.
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Put up a draft re the inexact location and I will dig out some cases recently won. Also a draft re the lack of sight around the corner. This may well end up at the Tribunal on the website grounds.
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First things first - contravention date 22 May 2024, date of PCN 2 Sept 24.
Is it your personal name and address on the PCN?
Is this a lease car? Even so this looks out of time and you can ask for events timing leading up to this PCN reaching you.
(https://i.imgur.com/QdF77jy.gif)
2230075418
The second ground is without merit as the Authority has 6 months to serve the Penalty Charge Notice where liability has been passed to a hirer.
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Yes it is my personal name and address on PCN. This was a courtesy car so it would have gone through the garage first, who then passed my details onto the council.
Do you have a copy of the agreement?
I didn't get a rental agreement. The only thing I signed was the duplicate sheet showing the damage and mileage on the vehicle when I picked up the car, and another when I returned it. Unfortunately I no longer have copies of these.
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turning right exemption?
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Yes it is my personal name and address on PCN. This was a courtesy car so it would have gone through the garage first, who then passed my details onto the council.
Do you have a copy of the agreement?
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the street names are debatable at this location. although the box appears to be in Southbury road the postal address (and their own published address) of shops to the right of the box in the pic are "the town"
I always believed that to be Southbury road :-\
we saw this location crop up in threads on PPP
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Yes it is my personal name and address on PCN. This was a courtesy car so it would have gone through the garage first, who then passed my details onto the council.
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First things first - contravention date 22 May 2024, date of PCN 2 Sept 24.
Is it your personal name and address on the PCN?
Is this a lease car? Even so this looks out of time and you can ask for events timing leading up to this PCN reaching you.
(https://i.imgur.com/QdF77jy.gif)
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Your points are valid. Plus when it is Tribunal time:
Their website grounds for later as they are quite irrelevant:
Parking
31J Entering and stopping in a box junction when prohibited (camera enforcement)
We will consider your appeal according to our appeals policy. If your reason for appeal is not listed in the policy, we are unlikely to accept it. However we will still consider your case individually.
Pay and display (P&D) or Cashless
The following circumstances are relating to scenarios involving P&D tickets or cashless parking sessions.
Select a reason:
I was in a rush and forgot to pay
I went to get change
My card payment was declined
Emergency / beyond driver's control
Reasons that relate to something unexpected happening to the motorist that must be seen to immediately
Select a reason:
I became unwell while driving
I parked at the location because I needed the toilet
I stopped because of an emergency situation
I was delayed due to a medical or urgent condition
My passenger became unwell while I was driving
My vehicle had broken down
My vehicle was cloned
My vehicle was stolen
PCN wrongly / unfairly issued
Reasons where it may appear that the PCN was issued unfairly or incorrectly.
Select a reason:
I only stopped for a few minutes
I was not at the location on the day
I was not served the PCN
I was not the driver
I was not the owner / keeper of the vehicle
I was only a few minutes late back to my vehicle
I was unaware of the rules
My vehicle was not outside the bay
The vehicle was on hire to someone else
There was nowhere else to park
Other
Other reasons we have received that do not fall into one of the above categories.
Select a reason:
A friend / family member recently passed away
I didn't see any signs or lines
I was picking up / dropping off a passenger
My vehicle is a taxi
The owner of the vehicle has passed away
None of the above
If none of the above reasons apply, and you wish to challenge your PCN, please select below:
Select a reason:
Any other reason
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Hi All,
Please would you be able to assist with this PCN. I was unfamiliar with this road so was caught up on the yellow box junction. I have two points which I was thinking of making a challenge on:
1. As the yellow box junction is around a corner, the end of the yellow box junction cannot be seen whilst waiting at the traffic lights. The view of the whole box junction can only be seen once you have passed the traffic lights and have started turning right, giving little time to react.
2. The location of the box junction is described as being on the road "The Town". Whilst there is a yellow box on The Town at its junction with Silver Street, the box I was caught in is actually wholly on Southbury Road at its junction with Silver Street. Am I able to get the PCN cancelled due to the wrong location being quoted?
Location is here https://maps.app.goo.gl/MAqYcFJv1Mi2ncdz5 It is the larger box on the East side, not the smaller one.
Thanks in advance
(https://i.imgur.com/HLaWbTm.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/lEnOgrR.jpg)