Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: win20 on August 30, 2024, 11:30:59 am
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My post was solely in the context of the question posed by the thread's title and evidence posted by the OP i.e. general info regarding payment, process and 14-day discount.
We've seen nothing from the OP regarding appeal grounds.
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Your Comment
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This for the birds and/or a game of Scrabble. Not fair. 3rd September I have a moving traffic case v Havering. Their website is a mess. I see no distinction between this case and the others.
Informal Challenge Form
Notice Details
Notice Number:
HG20299651
Vehicle Registration:
EX63NJY
Outstanding:
£55.00
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Let's see what Havering does in this case. You are entitled to check policy on their website and PCNs do contain errors.
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I'm not certain that this is as sure-fire a win as has been suggested.
The cited cases relate to the 'wrong grounds of appeal listed on website'. This is a serious PI because a NTO or PCN offers equal access to reps made online or by other means. It must therefore follow that the website must reflect the statutory grounds and not omit or confuse.
But the 14-day issue is not statutory. The PCN is clear, there's no ambiguity. Yes there is on the website, but IMO this is not in the same league as the cited cases' principle because there's nothing statutory about this matter.
The argument might succeed but IMO might not.
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I noted on another case that the website is contradictory and if they don't offer the discount you can make them work for their money by taking it to formal then tribunal stages.
On the contravention it's of course not fair to not ask someone to move out of contravention.
There is footway parking allowed in the area so there may be a resolution that covers where he was.
Surely your father knows to keep on the carriageway in London though?
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https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/london-councils-who-do-not-reoffer-the-discount-in-the-formal-notice-of-rejectio/msg34200/#msg34200
You are correct re the discount as per my post above; however, their website is rubbish so that this case is winnable at the Tribunal. I am happy to represent free of charge.
To explain: https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/pcn-at-my-own-driveway-pavement-parking/msg34577/#msg34577
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Apologies, I've updated the post with the PCN both sides.
Yes the banner says 22 July but just to correct the PCN is not dated 19 July, it's 19 August. So according to the banner our PCN would be over the threshold for the new rule, however the same page contradicts itself as further down the opposite is stated, and as I said, when calling them it does tell you that as long as you challenge within the 14 days you will get the period extended if rejected. I'm just concerned why they are allowed to put you at a disadvantage if you challenge and contradict they themselves within their own services and messaging?
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Post the PCN itself pl, both sides. Instructions are to be found at the top of the main forum page 'READ THIS FIRST..'.
There's nothing necessarily conflicting about their website but it raises questions about your dates. You've posted ...19/9/2024 which is in 3 weeks' time!
So when is it?
Best guess: PCN dated 19 July.
Date you viewed the website: around 19th July.
The rules pertaining at that time: The 14-day discount applies. BUT with a banner headline warning that from 22 July the 14-day discount would not apply.
So if the above is correct then you scraped in by 3 days if reps were submitted before 22 July.
Were they?
Even better if they respond and do not re-offer because then the keeper should succeed at adjudication 'penalty exceeded the amount applicable..'.
But let's get more facts on the table first pl.
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PCN Summary:
- Havering
- Parked with one or more wheels on or over footpath
- Tempest Way, Rainham
- 19/08/2024 at 10:45
My dad got this PCN while he was in the car, he was stopped for about a minute in order to restart his phone, he does Uber full time so his phone is always on and charging and overheated in this instance. He parked over the curb to not actually block the road and he knew he would only be there shortly while restarting the phone, he says there was no restrictions or signage on the street. The officer just went past him then turned around and parked behind him (see image 3) to give him the fine while he was still in the car. Observation time on the ticket also states 10:45 to 10:45. Also the officer just started taking more pictures as my dad got out to talk to him, basically ignoring him.
Unfortunately we've already submitted an appeal for the PCN (didn't know about this forum) however we also just realised in certain places it is written that for the Havering Borough if your challenge the PCN and it gets rejected you will not get the 14 day discount extended even if you challenged within the initial 14 days. However on the exact same page there is also a line stating "If we receive your challenge within the discounted period the discounted charge will be offered to you again if we are unable to cancel the Penalty Charge Notice." (See image 1)
Furthermore when I called in and pressed the option to get info on PCNs the automated message also states that we will get the discounted period again, apart from the fact that this would basically be a bribe/incentive for you not to appeal, do we have any case to get the discount extended since it states so in multiple places? And do we have a case to appeal?
Any insight would be appreciated.
Images:
(https://i.imgur.com/yVgw9fj.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/tbOQ4vF.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/uMy52py.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/8XYcgTO.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/IuWDnIN.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/hAHVUFe.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/ifeIkBP.jpeg)