Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: Kyrano on August 26, 2024, 03:40:39 pm
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You can make reps on anything you want. If you have to choose a category, contravention didn't occur covers most things.
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Thanks, I am not sure if they would offer the £30 discount again if a formal appeal was made.
It says you can only make representaion on certain grounds (1-6 above) and improper signage is not one of the items listed.
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For me, this boils down to whether an adjudicator agrees or not that the terms board should be updated with the amendment to the 2013 order that I posted.
Not sure it's worth a £30 gamble but they may well reoffer the discount at formal stage anyway to avoid the tribunal and may possibly even cancel it if a strong case can be made about terms.
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It was submitted on-line but in essence it said
- the entrance sign was obscured by foliage
- the bay road markings had been erroded and not legible.
- there were no signs idicating a penalty could be imposed for parkingin an EV spece, just for parking in disabled bay and parking outwith marked bays
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May we see a copy of your challenge, please.
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Sadly the challenge regarding the PCN failed to result in cancellation of the PCN :(
If I want to make a formal representation then I have to wait for 'Notice to Owner'
Is it worth a formal rpresentation?
https://imgur.com/WywD5Pt
https://imgur.com/VvLT7vK
Thanks
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Thank you for looking into that. Much appreciated. I will submit a challenge on that basis as see what developes.
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OP, see 17(c) and Interpretation section of the order.
A 'parking place' is the entirety of the area, 'parking bays' are the separate parking areas.
17. The council shall place and maintain such equipment, signs, markings as are required to give effect to the provisions of this order..
......
17(c) requires the council to 'place and maintain in the vicinity of each parking place appropriate signs indicating the restrictions ....
There's no silver bullet which would cause them to concede but the argument goes that if they believe that the driver breached a provision of the order and that this supports them demanding a penalty then similarly you would say that it's their own failure to comply with their order which had brought this about i.e. if the sign 'in the vicinity of the parking place' AKA the noticeboard had stated that such parking rendered the driver liable to a penalty then they would not have parked as they did etc....
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The only other possible avenue to explore would be the Order for the car park; has it been amended to include the conditions for use of the EV charging bays ?
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You could try a challenge saying the terms board does not say parking in electric bays is an issue. The CEO did not include a pic of the board among the pics. Below is your pic followed by some of theirs.
Here's the order referred to on the board. It doesn't mention electric bays of course only disabled bays and parking within bays. But there is an amendment in 2014 that adds electric bays but this should be reflected in the terms board.
https://www.fife.gov.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0019/30790/Off-Street-Parking-Places-Consolidation-Order-2013.pdf
https://www.fife.gov.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0026/30788/Amendment-to-Off-Street-Order-Electric-Vehicles.pdf
(https://i.ibb.co/p3f395C/L53yeLn.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/hLBDYp2/aber3.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/qn5JXnB/aber.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/NSnTZW4/aber2.jpg)
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Google https://maps.app.goo.gl/u4FUb1xHScSUw69q9
confirms your photos - the signage is very clear, the lines are substantially compliant.
As Incandescent has said, I think you would struggle to succeed at adjudication, and it would be best to pay at the discount (which should still be available - expires at midnight tomorrow by my calculation).
Advice given on this site has to be honest - if it is thought there is little chance of successful appeal that has to be said, even if unpalatable news for the OP.
Are there any photos on the Council site?
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I was under the impression the experts would provide advice?
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The parking is free at this car park.
There are no restictions on length of say. Some folk keep there cars there all the time.
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Just to clear up other aspects...
Is the car park free, if so for how long and if not was the correct tariff paid.
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Any ideas?
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So what advice are you guys giving??
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When they send the Notice to Owner, the registered keeper is liable. (Liability can be only transferred under hire/lease agreement only)
Identifying the driver is irrelevant for the Council penalties.
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Ok, I thought as there were no signs indicating a penalty could be imposed for parking there it may be worth appealing?
I think if paid within 14 days the charge is reduced to £30.
I am not sure how they know who was driving but says they will send a notice to owner.
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If you take this to adjudication the council will put a photo of that sign in their evidence pack so you will struggle IMHO.
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Here are some images of the bay and sign infrnt of the bay
https://imgur.com/a/Y2fa0Ox
Thanks
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We need to see a photo of the actual EV bay to give full advice. Were there any signs by the EV bays ?
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Photo link
https://imgur.com/a/Y2fa0Ox
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(https://imgur.com/a/Y2fa0Ox)
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Read this:
https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/
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A driver parked in a railway station electric vehicle parking bay in rush to get train.
Recieved a PCN from Fife Council.
However, the signs do not say a penalty can be issued for parking there, only for Unaurthorised use of Disabled Bays and Parking outwith Marked Bays.
Additionally the bay surface markings have been eroded.
Is this a reason to challenge the PCN?
Thanks