Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: student.223 on August 24, 2024, 09:51:46 pm
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Very well done ! We don't see this very often.
Thank you and thank you for your help and guidance :)
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Very well done ! We don't see this very often.
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Just an update on this.
Both PCNs have been cancelled. :)
Thank you to everyone who helped me.
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It is for your brother to sign the letter, not you. If he was so busy looking for cameras, he should have also noticed the ULEZ cameras that proliferate almost every road leading into London.
I suggest you don't use the words "humble" and "humbly" in the same sentence. I doubt the drones at TfL would understand what the words mean. Tell your brother to keep the appeal short and factual.
Thanks for the response.
I've drafted the appeal based on what my brother has told me. He will send it off.
I have told him that I feel the chances of them cancelling the PCNs are pretty slim but I guess there's nothing to lose by giving it a try.
Otherwise he'll just have to chalk it up to experience.
Thanks for your input. I have edited the draft accordingly.
Dear TFL Appeals Department,
I write to you in relation to the PCN I received dated 22/08/2024.
I would like to appeal the PCN.
I agree that my vehicle was in a ULEZ and I failed to make the payment for the same.
I would like to begin by apologising for this.
Whilst I do not have any mitigating circumstances, I would like to appeal for discretion and understanding on this occasion.
I am from Manchester and I have not been to London for several years. The last time I visited London, there was no ULEZ.
I know there has been a lot of noise about the ULEZ in the media and so I am aware of the ULEZ, but on the two days that I was found to be in the ULEZ I did not see any ULEZ signs, I was also completely unaware that I had entered a ULEZ.
And as I am from Manchester - where we do not have any ULEZ or CAZ, this sort of thing is completely out of the norm for me so I did not even think to check later on.
I know this is not an acceptable excuse and it is my complete responsibility as a driver to ensure I make myself aware of all the rules wherever I go. However, it is down to genuine human error that I now find myself with not one, but 2 PCNs for the same type of contravention.
Otherwise, I am not a fare-dodger and I have absolutely no issue paying my fees and dues.
And you will also agree that I would much rather have paid the £12.50 x 2 than £90 x 2.
It was a genuine error and oversight on my part for which I appeal to you for discretion.
I would be very grateful for the opportunity to pay the actual fee of £12.50 x 2 if you could please consider this.
If you find you are unable to, then I request if you can please cancel at least one of the PCNs.
I know you do not have to accept my appeal and you are well within your rights to reject my appeal and make me pay. In that situation I will have no choice but to pay. I also know that I do not have any mitigating circumstances that would allow for the PCNs to be cancelled.
However, I appeal for discretion on this occasion and I will ensure that this mistake is never repeated. It is a lesson I am learning for life; whether I pay £12.50 x 2 or £90 x 2. I will never forget this.
I conclude by requesting you to please take some time to consider my appeal.
I am very grateful for your consideration in this matter.
Kind Regards
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It is for your brother to sign the letter, not you. If he was so busy looking for cameras, he should have also noticed the ULEZ cameras that proliferate almost every road leading into London.
I suggest you don't use the words "humble" and "humbly" in the same sentence. I doubt the drones at TfL would understand what the words mean. Tell your brother to keep the appeal short and factual.
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P.S. I have no idea why the last few lines have a strike-through
Go to the original text and look to see if you've accidentally inserted a 'strikeout' command
I did, and there's nothing there. Its clear. Just the i's for the italic.
Edit: I found it. I had written PCN[ s ]. So the [ s ] was adding the strikethrough.
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P.S. I have no idea why the last few lines have a strike-through
Go to the original text and look to see if you've accidentally inserted a 'strikeout' command
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I've written an apology and appeal.
For your brother to sign and submit as the addressee on the PCN?
Yes.
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I've written an apology and appeal.
For your brother to sign and submit as the addressee on the PCN?
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I've written an apology and appeal.
I would be grateful if someone could please have a look at it for me and advise of any changes needed.
Thank you.
P.S. I have no idea why the last few lines have a strike-through :-\
Dear TFL Appeals Department,
I write to you in relation to the PCN I received dated 22/08/2024.
I would like to appeal the PCN.
I agree that my vehicle was in a ULEZ and I failed to make the payment for the same.
I would like to begin by apologising for this.
Whilst I do not have any mitigating circumstances, I would like to appeal for discretion and understanding on this occasion.
I am from Manchester and I have not been to London for several years. The last time I visited London, there was no ULEZ.
I know there has been a lot of noise about the ULEZ in the media and so I am aware of the ULEZ, but on the two days that I was found to be in the ULEZ I was so focused on making sure that my speed was correct, that I wasn't going into any bus lanes/no entries, etc that not only did I did not see any ULEZ signs, I was also completely unaware that I had entered a ULEZ.
And as I am from Manchester - where we do not have any ULEZ or CAZ, this sort of thing is completely out of the norm for me so I did not even think to check later on.
I know this is not an acceptable excuse and it is my complete responsibility as a driver to ensure I make myself aware of all the rules wherever I go. However, it is down to genuine human error that I now find myself with not one, but 2 PCNs for the same type of contravention.
Otherwise, I am not a fare-dodger and I have absolutely no issue paying my fees and dues.
And you will also agree that I would much rather have paid the £12.50 x 2 than £90 x 2.
It was a genuine error and oversight on my part for which I appeal to you for discretion.
I would be very grateful for the opportunity to pay the actual fee of £12.50 x 2 if you could please consider this.
If you find you are unable to, then I humbly request if you can please cancel at least one of the PCNs.
I know you do not have to accept my appeal and you are well within your rights to reject my appeal and make me pay. In that situation I will have no choice but to pay. I also know that I do not have any mitigating circumstances that would allow for the PCN to be cancelled.
However, I appeal for discretion on this occasion and I will ensure that this mistake is never repeated. It is a lesson I am learning for life; whether I pay £12.50 x 2 or £90 x 2. I will never forget this.
I conclude by humbly requesting you to please take some time to consider my humble appeal.
I am very grateful for your consideration in this matter.
Kind Regards
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Look at the emissions section of the V5c for the car. What are the figures for NOx, HC+NOx and Emissions?
I expect your car to be over the limit for NOx and Emissions. But it's always worth checking.
Thank you
He hasn't sent me very clear pictures but it's readable
https://imgur.com/a/4PuzXpa
I've attached a picture of the part of the V5C that shows the emissions information.
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Look at the emissions section of the V5c for the car. What are the figures for NOx, HC+NOx and Emissions?
I expect your car to be over the limit for NOx and Emissions. But it's always worth checking.
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The government checker for other zones shows it's liable for Birmingham and Bristol charges so it is very likely non-compliant. You can try googling the model and see if anyone has done homework on this and also check yourself with the maker's full spec.
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The pollution numbers will be on the CoC and may be on the V5c. Nox is what matters, though pmi might also be relevant.
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Using GSV Street View why not check the ULEZ signs are in position on his route into London.
Thank you for this.
Not sure he will even remember which route he took but I'll look into it. Thanks for this.
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Using GSV Street View why not check the ULEZ signs are in position on his route into London.
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Is the car definitely not compliant - it's a 2014 diesel and it was 2015 that euro 6 became mandatory but sometimes engines are compliant before.
Thank you for the response.
According to the TFL ULEZ checker it isn't compliant unfortunately.
Well obviously - but the checker can be wrong.
I see. So how do I check if it's definitely compliant/none-compliant?
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Is the car definitely not compliant - it's a 2014 diesel and it was 2015 that euro 6 became mandatory but sometimes engines are compliant before.
Thank you for the response.
According to the TFL ULEZ checker it isn't compliant unfortunately.
Well obviously - but the checker can be wrong.
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The only possible hard argument I can think of is, there was no ULEZ sign at the ULEZ boundary on the road he drove into London on. To be honest, he must have been living on Tristan da Cunha not to have known about ULEZ, as it was in all the national newspapers when the zone was expanded under Sadiq Khan, the Mayor, (who got re-elected recently).
However, nothing ventured, nothing gained, so I suggest submitting representations on not having visited London for many years, living far away in a rural are, (if true), etc and therefore not knowing about the ULEZ zone.
Of course if he can show there was no ULEZ sign on the appproach route it would help.
He has the right in law, if TfL declines his reps, to take them to London Tribunals, but this is with the full PCN penalty in play.
Edit
Please also note that adjudicators at London Tribunals cannot consider appeals based on mitigation.
Thank you for your response.
Is it true that TFL freeze the discount if the PCN is challenged? I think I read it somewhere.
If that's the case then as you said it's worth a shot I guess.
Regarding the ULEZ sign on the approach route, I expect that it is very well signposted but my brother is not the best at this sort of thing. He's more focused on cameras and his speed and that sort of thing.
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Is the car definitely not compliant - it's a 2014 diesel and it was 2015 that euro 6 became mandatory but sometimes engines are compliant before.
Thank you for the response.
According to the TFL ULEZ checker it isn't compliant unfortunately.
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Is the car definitely not compliant - it's a 2014 diesel and it was 2015 that euro 6 became mandatory but sometimes engines are compliant before.
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The only possible hard argument I can think of is, there was no ULEZ sign at the ULEZ boundary on the road he drove into London on. To be honest, he must have been living on Tristan da Cunha not to have known about ULEZ, as it was in all the national newspapers when the zone was expanded under Sadiq Khan, the Mayor, (who got re-elected recently).
However, nothing ventured, nothing gained, so I suggest submitting representations on not having visited London for many years, living far away in a rural are, (if true), etc and therefore not knowing about the ULEZ zone.
Of course if he can show there was no ULEZ sign on the appproach route it would help.
He has the right in law, if TfL declines his reps, to take them to London Tribunals, but this is with the full PCN penalty in play.
Edit
Please also note that adjudicators at London Tribunals cannot consider appeals based on mitigation.
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Hi,
I am here for some advice about PCNs from TFL for ULEZ.
My brother has returned home from his holiday in London to find 2 PCNs for not paying ULEZ charges.
It's a straightforward matter. He's made the mistake, he's got to pay. But I'm wondering if there are any grounds for appeal?
The reason he didn't pay the charges both times is because he says that the last time he went to London - several years ago, he didn't have to pay. So he just assumed he doesn't have to pay this time either.
It sounds feeble I know but I guess it's just carelessness on his part. Otherwise he would of course much rather have paid the fee than now pay £90x2.
Before he pays I just wanted to come on here and check if there are any grounds for appeal, or should he just pay up and put it down to experience.
I've attached a link to the images of the whole of one letter and just the first page of the second one because it's identical to the first.
https://imgur.com/a/uGHem9Z
I would be grateful for any advice.
Thank you in advance.