Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: mg_driver on August 22, 2024, 09:07:43 pm
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Wait for the NTO.
Do you mean the council reply should also come as NTO and reply via email is not counted?
If I wait over two weeks from today, I will lose the opportunity to pay half of the amount.
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Wait for the NTO.
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Ha, have got a reply from the council just now.
I challenged contravention on the 24th of August and got their reply on the 25th of October - this is exactly 2 months.
Is there a timeframe in which they are obligated to come back, or 2 months still fine?
This is what they came back with
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/okin6ryfqccfcghvu5ksu/ADQ8X4PislMB3H-a-M3Rbt0?rlkey=xsd4ddig4vb5ey0w7guwyndp6&st=ek9xbgy1&dl=0
Are there any good grounds for the tribunal?
Not sure if the provided photograph is close to the parked car.
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I will PM you. cp and I have agreed to send my draft. I have screenshots of all the website "grounds" and you should do the same. Please do not drop any hints that their site is a word which rhymes with it!
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Am I selecting None of the Above (https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/jbqkxr0fznwoz5puyeuc0/Screenshot-2024-08-24-at-17.04.33.png?rlkey=bhyqp6n8cqumhom4pe8hr8e36&st=1mj6o0mo&dl=0) correctly?
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Suggested draft as I expect it best to leave the website issue until the Tribunal stage:
What website issues are being referenced here?
Have got evidences video recording (https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/w1wc3v3amv1mdviqglcys/Screen-Recording-2024-08-24-at-16.41.36.mov?rlkey=q91y7827wy8erwrflodac5vyp&st=bsgc46dv&dl=0).
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Suggested draft as I expect it best to leave the website issue until the Tribunal stage:
Dear Merton
Ref: PCN: MT70366624 VRM: LY24XEK
The contravention is not proved as the photographic images on your website do not show any upright sign allegedly contravened.
Please cancel the said PCN forthwith.
Yours faithfully
Name
Address
***
Do it online and screenshot everything, especially the page with their photos.
Thank you @Hippocrates - will challange council now!
Will video record my screen with their evidences and current time.
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@cp8759 I am happy to do this one. But, can we discuss strategy?
@Hippocrates of course.
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Suggested draft as I expect it best to leave the website issue until the Tribunal stage:
Dear Merton
Ref: PCN: MT70366624 VRM: LY24XEK
The contravention is not proved as the photographic images on your website do not show any upright sign allegedly contravened.
Please cancel the said PCN forthwith.
Yours faithfully
Name
Address
***
Do it online and screenshot everything, especially the page with their photos.
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@cp8759 I am happy to do this one. But, can we discuss strategy?
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Parking
Parked or loading / unloading in a restricted street where waiting and loading / unloading restrictions are in force
We will consider your appeal according to our appeals policy. If your reason for appeal is not listed in the policy, we are unlikely to accept it. However we will still consider your case individually.
Search for a reason
Pay and display (P&D) or Cashless
The following circumstances are relating to scenarios involving P&D tickets or cashless parking sessions.
Select a reason:
I had a P&D ticket
I made a mistake when purchasing my P&D ticket
I paid by phone or app
I was in a rush and forgot to pay
I went to get change
The ticket machine was broken and I couldn't purchase a P&D ticket
My card payment was declined
Permits
The following circumstances are relating to scenarios involving parking permits.
Select a reason:
I had a permit
Blue Badge
The following circumstances are relating to scenarios involving Blue Badges
Select a reason:
I had a Blue Badge
Emergency / beyond driver's control
Reasons that relate to something unexpected happening to the motorist that must be seen to immediately
Select a reason:
I became severely unwell while driving
I parked at the location because I needed the toilet
I stopped because of an emergency situation
My passenger became severely unwell while I was driving
My vehicle had broken down
My vehicle was cloned
My vehicle was stolen / taken without my consent
PCN wrongly / unfairly issued
Reasons where it may appear that the PCN was issued unfairly or incorrectly.
Select a reason:
I only stopped for a few minutes
I was not served the PCN
I was not the driver
I was not the owner of the vehicle
I was only a few minutes late back to my vehicle
I was unaware of the rules
My vehicle was not outside the bay markings
The vehicle was on hire to someone else
There was nowhere else to park
Other
Other reasons we have received that do not fall into one of the above categories.
Select a reason:
A friend / family member recently passed away
I didn't see any signs or lines
I was loading / unloading at the time
I was picking up / dropping off a passenger
My vehicle is a taxi / private hire vehicle
The owner of the vehicle has passed away
The signs / markings were unclear
None of the above
If none of the above reasons apply, and you wish to challenge your PCN, please select below:
Select a reason:
Any other reason
Cancel
*******
Case:
ETA Register of Appeals
Register kept under Regulation 20 of the Road Traffic (Parking Adjudicators) (London)
Regulations 1993, as amended and Regulation 17 of the Civil Enforcement of Road Traffic
Contraventions (Representations and Appeals) (England) Regulations 2022.
Case Details
Case reference 2230398949
Appellant Stanmore Quality Surfacing Ltd
Authority London Borough of Islington
VRM BT23 PZJ
PCN Details
PCN IZ26614796
Contravention
date
19 Jun 2023
Contravention
time
09:51:00
Contravention
location
Aubert Park
Penalty amount GBP 130.00
Contravention Fail comply prohibition on certain types vehicle
Referral date
Decision Date 08 Nov 2023
Adjudicator Philippa Alderson
Appeal
decision
Appeal allowed
Direction cancel the Penalty Charge Notice.
Reasons The Appellant is appealing a Penalty Charge Notice issued in respect of
failing to comply with the prohibition on certain types of vehicle at the
location.
The Appellant was represented by Mr Murray-Smith today, who attended by
telephone.
The Enforcement Authority relies upon photographic capture of the vehicle,
a copy of the PCN, a copy of the relevant legislation and location
photographs.
It is contended on behalf of the Appellant that the grounds of appeal were
not correctly stated on the Enforcement Authority's website.
I have carefully considered all the evidence in this matter.
The vehicle was observed to enter a street which was subject to a No Motor
Vehicle restriction, save for specified permit holders. I am not satisfied that
any statutory exemption has been established. The signage indicating the
restriction appears prominent and unambiguous, as does relevant warning
signage.
It is contended on behalf of the Appellant that the information presented to
the Appellant on the Council website does not reflect/match that given on
the PCN, nor the statutory requirements. The Appellant has provided a
screenshot of the relevant pages, which require an appellant to, "Make a
Representation". It appears that no statutory grounds of appeal are referred
to.
Whilst there is no statutory requirement to set out the grounds in the online
system, I agree with Adjudicator Oliver in Case No 2180498755 that the EA
should ensure that an online system adequately conveys to motorists the
grounds upon which they may appeal.
Back
In addition, whilst I am not bound by the decisions of other adjudicators, I
concur with the view of Adjudicators Brennan and Harman in the cases
cited on behalf of the Appellant. In particular I concur with the decision of Mr
Harman (2230274232) that an EA has a duty to act fairly and should
adequately convey to the motorist the grounds upon which they could make
representations.
I further note that, in omitting to list the relevant statutory grounds of appeal,
potential confusion could be caused in that an Appellant may believe that
mitigation falls to be considered as a ground of appeal. Whilst an EA may of
course exercise discretion, the lack of specificity regarding statutory criteria
may further confuse and blur these distinctions.
For these reasons, this appeal is allowed.
Authority
Response
I certify this to be a true copy of an entry in the register
Cookies Privacy Policy Accessibility
*****
Please post up what you think is wrong with the signage.
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I can't copy and paste at the moment for some reason but the grounds on the website are rubbish and we win cases on this. They only concern mitigation.
Please take a screenshot yourself and try and enter "procedural impropriety" and note the result! I have given you this ground because I know it. How are you expected to know it? I won a case v Kingston last week on the same issue. But this website is even worse.
para 4 in this link explains why:
https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/london-borough-of-havering-31j-pcn-entering-and-stopping-in-box-junction-pcn-mai/msg34141/#msg34141
I will dig out the most appropriate case by Miss Alderson.
Hmmm, not sure if I follow here.
This is what they have got on their website:
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/u4lsqubw3hync3mvo7iq6/Screenshot-2024-08-22-at-21.43.12.png?rlkey=fx88tm0v4h4a452o0424n8qvz&st=5ei95g8z&dl=0
What actually can be objected here - information given by council website or the fact that parking sign is confusing and one part of it contradicts other two?
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I can't copy and paste at the moment for some reason but the grounds on the website are rubbish and we win cases on this. They only concern mitigation.
Please take a screenshot yourself and try and enter "procedural impropriety" and note the result! I have given you this ground because I know it. How are you expected to know it? I won a case v Kingston last week on the same issue. But this website is even worse.
para 4 in this link explains why:
https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/london-borough-of-havering-31j-pcn-entering-and-stopping-in-box-junction-pcn-mai/msg34141/#msg34141
I will dig out the most appropriate case by Miss Alderson.
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Hi,
Thank you for looking.
PCN Number - MT70366624
Reg Number: LY24XEK
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Hi. We need the PCN please or at least the PCN number and VRM. There may well be a problem with their website.
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My wife received a parking PCN at 17:03 while parking under the sign shown in this image:
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/5mmruqi9w0n36ygfk559c/IMG_0109.jpeg?rlkey=8pmf8z0mevnkxpxmr1vji9qih&st=7ue3vd4r&dl=0
While I'm not an expert, it seems the fine may be valid. However, if I'm mistaken and there's a valid reason to contest this PCN, I would appreciate any advice on how to proceed.