Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: jb1978 on August 22, 2024, 06:19:53 pm
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We won the appeal. Reasoning from the adjudicator is below. Thanks for all the help on here!
This appeal was submitted on behalf of Mrs Boyd by Mr John Boyd, who appears to have been driving at the time. Mr Boyd submitted that the signage for the motorcycle bay was not clear. In particular he said that: -
There was no sign visible as he entered the car park or the car park space.
There were no clear signs visible within the space indicating that it was a motorcycle space.
The main car park signage makes no mention of motorcycle parking areas.
The sign itself is ambiguous as it states ‘Motor Cycles Only’ and beneath that states ‘Free Parking’ and ‘No overnight parking or camping’. He submitted that this could be interpreted as indicating that motorcycles could be parked for free, but payment was required for other vehicles.
The area concerned is not marked out as a bay and, in the absence of any boundary markers or other indicators that the area was reserved for motorcycles it was not possible to know which areas were reserved for specific vehicles.
Mr Boyd concluded by saying that he had parked in good faith and with the intention of complying with the parking regulations.
The council said that the car park is surfaced with grass and gravel which can become soft in wetter conditions so they do not use bay markings, but merely ask drivers to park in orderly rows. The small paved area where Mr Boyd parked is, however, reserved for motorcycles. They submitted that the restriction was clearly signed and that it was up to drivers to look out for parking information when parking in a restricted car park.
The council must provide signage which is adequate to let drivers know which restrictions apply and where. In a car park, drivers do not need to see all the signs from a moving vehicle as they are able to park, then check the signs and the information board and move their vehicle if necessary.
However, the sign board contains no information about motorcycles and there is no mention that any part of the car park is reserved for motorcycles or any other specified vehicles, so there was no reason for Mr Boyd to be looking out for any further restriction signs. I also accept that the sign is a little ambiguous. As Mr Boyd suggested, it could be read to mean merely that motorcyclists did not need to pay to park.
Mr Boyd did park the car within an orderly row, without apparently obstructing any other vehicles. He also paid to park and put his ticket on display as required, so it appears that he did comply with all the main conditions set out on the board which were relevant to him.
In the absence of any information in the sign board or any markings on the motorcycle parking area, and taking into account the ambiguous wording, I find that the signage was not adequate to let Mr Boyd know that he could not park a car in that position. It follows that I find that the contravention did not occur and I allow the appeal. There is nothing for Mrs Boyd to pay.
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No re-offer of discount so it's a no-brainer to now register an appeal at the TPT
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Date of Notice of Rejection?
The date of the notice of rejection of representations was 23 Oct 2024.
Thanks
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Date of Notice of Rejection?
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The rejection to my representations is available at https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Z3U_qOC02FklodeQSA4eakJjZFkoKrhQ/view?usp=drive_link
I will take this to the tribunal. Any advice would be appreciated.
Thanks
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Thank you for the help. I will post the response when I get it.
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Your draft reps looks OK to me. As you are at NtO stage the discount payment option is lost, so if they refuse your formal reps against the NtO, it is no-brainer to take them to the Traffic Penalty Tribunal. The TPT do video adjudications or just plain old telephone. They may, of course, re-offer the discount when refusing, so please post up their response when you get it.
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Please can someobody review the Notice to Owener and my draft response above?
Thanks
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Is public now :)
YOu need to blank out your name and address and re-post
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Is public now :)
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You need to set the link to public...
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Please see the notice to owner at https://drive.google.com/file/d/1x_gHM1vzDufRhMkc1LZcsKy8EZytnYKi/view?usp=drive_link
Advice on how to respond would be appreciated.
Thanks
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Don't do or send anything until you receive the notice to owner then post that here and we will take a look
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Thanks for the advice so far. Draft appeal below. Do you think I have a strong case?
TRAFFIC MANAGEMENT ACT 2004
Penalty Charge Notice: UN06222501
Issue Date: 04/08/2024
Location: Chare Ends CP, Holy Island
Vehicle Registration: YP65UEC
Photos:
https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipPNx8-QOkhOrlkrmQFo6UsXaiwC3Obai3TJdQzw103jYiLEB1AmwTYH65a--NgiCA?key=VE9VU1dWZTRvY2NaemNfdzFURlVoUmpqZFBxN1V3
Dear Sir/Madam
Subject: Penalty Charge Notice/Fixed Penalty Notice UN06222501 on 4 Aug 2024.
I write to you in respect of the above Penalty Charge Notice issued to my vehicle which was issued for the alleged reason "Parked in a car park or area not designated for that class of vehicle.
I wish to appeal it as the contravention did not occur for the following reasons:
All signs need to be clearly visible and to a prescribed criteria so motorists can make an informed decision. If a sign is obscure and unclear, it cannot be said that the car park / road was adequately signed. I therefore cannot be found guilty of the alleged contravention.
1. As you enter the car park and drive into the space I parked in there is no sign visible at eye level. I have taken photos of this space from all angles. I had no idea this was a motorcycle only space and only became aware the Council considered it as such when I got back to the car and saw the penalty notice. A car parked directly in front of me also had a penalty notice.
2. There is nothing on the main car park sign that relates to motorcycle only bays or penalties for parking in these. I complied with all the Main conditions of use listed on the main sign so should not have been issued with a penalty.
3. The “Motorcycles Only” sign states:
Motor Cycles Only
Free Parking
No overnight parking/camping
This could be understood to mean that Motorcycles can park for free anywhere within the car park. This car park does not have marked bays (see Google photos link above), and the main cark park sign states “park in orderly rows without obstructing the entrance, exit footpaths, or other parked vehicles. I complied with these terms. There were no bay markings or clear signage to designate that the partially paved/overgrown area I parked on was a bay restricted to the parking of only Motorcycles.
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Whilst the council are correct about the requirement for road markings they must make a sign clear. IMO this one is not. A motorbike could no doubt park anywhere in this car park as there are no bays marked out at all. I would argue along the lines that the sign in situ did not identify a place only for motor cycles but only stated the motorcycle parking was free
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Hi,
Unfortunately I can't find the PCN.
GSV:
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@55.6750531,-1.8015961,3a,30y,71.41h,86.81t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sKCf8uJYyBmMektlS0zDECA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?coh=205409&entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI0MDgyNi4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D
As you can hopefully see from the above GSV, when I drove into the car park there was no sign in my vision or on the ground indicating the space next to the payment machines was a motorcycle only space. The only sign is at a right angle above head height.
The photos I took of the car park are available at:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/fbnwXgXNNDGMA5ek6
Thanks
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Hm, sign "Motorcycles Only" looks pretty clear to me, but there seems to be nothing on the ground to indicate the extent of the motorcycle area. Indeed there seem to be no bay markings at all. What makes the car to the left of yours OK, and yours not ? The plain fact is that markings are required, and their letter is tosh in this regard; a motorist must know where to park and not to park.
Please post the PCN, all sides so we can check it for fatal errors of content. This content is defined in regulations. Also a GSV view would be useful too.
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Please can someone review the Northumberland council response to my appeal for parking in a motorcycle bay? See https://drive.google.com/file/d/1soZLtzQglqf36e2qKVXpwRUAaDNnODh_/view?usp=sharing
Is it worth challenging this any further? My intial appeal is copied below. Thanks
Dear Sir/Madam
Subject: Penalty Charge Notice/Fixed Penalty Notice UN06222501 on 4 Aug 2024.
I write to you in respect of the above Penalty Charge Notice issued to my vehicle which was issued for the alleged reason "Parked in a car park or area not designated for that class of vehicle.
I wish to appeal it as the contravention did not occur for the following reasons:
All signs need to be clearly visible and to a prescribed criteria so motorists can make an informed decision. If a sign is obscure and unclear, it cannot be said that the car park / road was adequately signed. I therefore cannot be found guilty of the alleged contravention.
As you enter the the car park and drive into the space there is no sign visible at eye level. I have taken photos of this space from all angles. I had no idea this was a motorcycle only space and only became aware it was when I got back to the car and saw the penalty notice. A car parked directly in front of me also had a penalty notice.
The only sign is at a right angle to the space above eye level. This does not comply with signage regulations.
I request that your authority therefore provide me with details of:
The Traffic Parking Tribunal (England and Wales)
I enclose photos to support my appeal for consideration.
I look forward to receiving confirmation that the ticket has been cancelled within 28 days.
Yours faithfully