Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: HJ____h on August 22, 2024, 11:14:16 am
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@cp8759 @mrmustard There are 6 cases at 15.30 this Friday in which Haringey will hotly contest the wording and even the right to make a collateral challenge.
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Charge certificate sent 27th after decision was made on 21st. Now immediately rescinded after a strong complaint threatening - sorry, promising - a costs application. 8)
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I've now added this to the systemic PCN flaws tab (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1pVrE76_RYY6bNmEpYGbsZkxtpfIeud_BT3SKfg7TzQM/edit?gid=0#gid=0&range=I222:I223), nothing new had gone on there for ages. Somehow I never saw that, goes to show many hands make light work!
Let's hope they don't fix it!
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I've now added this to the systemic PCN flaws tab (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1pVrE76_RYY6bNmEpYGbsZkxtpfIeud_BT3SKfg7TzQM/edit?gid=0#gid=0&range=I222:I223), nothing new had gone on there for ages. Somehow I never saw that, goes to show many hands make light work!
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Outcome (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1mq9MAnLdByhCxR5IzpKhvDT7LKlTOHUJ/view), well done @Hippocrates
@cp8759 Thanks! It also helps to have a more than sensible adjudicator. He had made his mind up already.
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Outcome (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1mq9MAnLdByhCxR5IzpKhvDT7LKlTOHUJ/view), well done @Hippocrates
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Case won as the PCN has problems. Decision tomorrow. Mr Stanton-Dunne agreed with me:
The PCN wrongly states which action triggers the period in which the council
may serve a charge certificate: “If the Penalty Charge is not paid before the end
of the period of 28 days beginning with the date of service of this notice an
increased charge of £195.00 maybe payable. We may then send you a Charge
Certificate.” The law states at Schedule 1 5:
1)Where a penalty charge notice is served on any person and the penalty charge
to which it relates is not paid before the end of the relevant period, the
enforcing authority may serve on that person a statement (in this paragraph
referred to as a “charge certificate”) to the effect that the penalty charge in
question is increased by 50 per cent.
(2)The relevant period, in relation to a penalty charge notice is the period of 28
days beginning—
(a)where no representations are made under paragraph 1 above, with the date
on which the penalty charge notice is served;
https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/52(m)-failing-to-comply-haringey/msg53873/#msg53873
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Adjourned.
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PCN issue too. Cannot say more as I work in lieu of Roger Moore, non-secret agent, any more. :(
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Edited.
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8 days before the hearing and no council evidence pack filed yet.
No grounds on website:
Contact Us
Contravention Date13/06/2024**********
Please use the box below to provide information you would like the Council to consider in relation to this PCN or further information if you have already made a challenge or representation. You must include your name, postal address with postcode and e-mail address, or the Council will not be able to respond to your correspondence. You can upload supporting documents instead of, or together with more information, but the document(s) must also include your name, postal address with postcode and e-mail address, if you have not typed this into the box below.
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Additional information
Your Notes
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μολὼν λαβέ
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Re Notice of Rejection issue:
The NOR fails to mention that the Adjudicator can extend the period of time in which to lodge an appeal. In this regard I rely upon the following two cases and respective extracts: David Miller v London Borough of Barnet Case No: 217024143 in which Mr Chan said:
Mr Dishman makes a further submission in relation to the contents of the Notice of Rejection. In essence, he complains that it has not advised motorists contemplating an appeal to the Adjudicator that the Adjudicator may extend the time limit for an appeal. There is no requirement that the Notice must spell out the appeal process. It must however "describe in general terms the form and manner in which such an appeal must be made". I find that this must include a reference to the time limit and that it can be extended." I am not satisfied that the PCN can be upheld. I allow the appeal. And Shelley Sinclair v London Borough of Lewisham Case No: 218033612A in which Mr Walsh said with reference to the aforementioned case: The second alleged deficiency is that the Notice of Rejection does not expressly state that an adjudicator may extend the period of 28 days provided for lodging an appeal, as provided by Regulation 7(1)(b). It is right to say, of course, that Regulation 6 does not stipulate that it should. It is also right to say that the Notice of Rejection alludes to the power to extend the period, in that it states that a person who does not appeal within the period ‘may’ have missed the opportunity to appeal. I conclude, however, that a reasonable reader of the Notice of Rejection would be unlikely to conclude that an adjudicator had the power to extend the 28 day period. That discretionary power is, in my view, an important component of the appellate process and a power of which a potential appellant should be made aware. In the case of Miller v. London Borough of Barnet (2170241413, 21 June 2017), cited by Mrs Sinclair, my fellow adjudicator Mr. Chan held that it was essential that a Notice of Rejection describes the power of potential extension to the 28 day limit. He held that a Notice of Rejection that does not contains this detail does not describe in general terms the form and manner in which an appeal to an adjudicator must be made, in accordance with Regulation 6(1)(c). For the reasons I have given I agree with that decision which I consider highly persuasive.
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It says my rep was received 04/09/24 - should be 04/07/24 which is 13 days after issue - this isn’t causing the reduced rate issue is it?
Thank you re: PM.
We need to see what you wrote. The NOR does not mention the power of the adjudicator to extend the time in which to appeal. Cases have been won on this. I will dig them out later.
According to their version of events:
PCN events
Date
Description
15/08/2024 10:13 Correspondence Letter
15/08/2024 10:11 Off Hold
15/08/2024 10:11 Representation submitted Under review
15/08/2024 10:11 Challenge/Representation Rejected
10/07/2024 13:13 On Hold :Representation Received (04/09/2024 )
21/06/2024 09:37 PCN Issued
Well, you should make an appeal to the Tribunal as the full amount is in play. Please show us your reps. and we will advise. Usually we advise: the contravention did not occur, I rely upon my formal representations and will file full submissions upon receipt of the council's evidence pack. Always choose a personal hearing, never a Thursday. One of The Three Musketeers will offer to represent you. cp8759, mrMustard or I. ;D (The tribunal staff have coined this phrase for us.)
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It appears that this is yet another authority which does not reoffer the discount.
https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/london-councils-who-do-not-reoffer-the-discount-in-the-formal-notice-of-rejectio/
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Well, I would file the appeal online and get back to me with a date. I will PM you.
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I did take a photo of my original appeal which can be found here:
https://ibb.co/yhH650m
Thank you.
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We need to see what you wrote. The NOR does not mention the power of the adjudicator to extend the time in which to appeal. Cases have been won on this. I will dig them out later.
According to their version of events:
PCN events
Date
Description
15/08/2024 10:13 Correspondence Letter
15/08/2024 10:11 Off Hold
15/08/2024 10:11 Representation submitted Under review
15/08/2024 10:11 Challenge/Representation Rejected
10/07/2024 13:13 On Hold :Representation Received (04/09/2024 )
21/06/2024 09:37 PCN Issued
Well, you should make an appeal to the Tribunal as the full amount is in play. Please show us your reps. and we will advise. Usually we advise: the contravention did not occur, I rely upon my formal representations and will file full submissions upon receipt of the council's evidence pack. Always choose a personal hearing, never a Thursday. One of The Three Musketeers will offer to represent you. cp8759, mrMustard or I. ;D (The tribunal staff have coined this phrase for us.)
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It appears that this is yet another authority which does not reoffer the discount.
https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/london-councils-who-do-not-reoffer-the-discount-in-the-formal-notice-of-rejectio/
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Hello there,
I fear I may be in the ‘shoot myself in the foot’ gang as I appealed the above PCN in June when I received it.
Something in their wording about using their discretion made me appeal using human error / a very upset child on way to dentist and not having driven in Tottenham since all the new signage / no entry systems came into play.
Suffice to say I have received a NOR but what has shocked me is being unable to pay the reduced rate despite sending my appeal well within the 14 days. (I wrote appeal on the PCN letter so do not have a copy).
NOR links to images:
https://ibb.co/Y2jHVwR
https://ibb.co/VY9Ckq0
https://ibb.co/3MysbJF
It even states on Haringey council’s website that when appeal is received it is paused and PCN days do not increase. So I should still be in the 14 days even now? CAB also reiterates the reduced option post appeal.
I’m wondering if there’s anything I can do, I will pay the reduced rate but this all feels really unfair and sneaky and is a lot of money for me.
Any help most most appreciated.
Thank you,
Upset HJ