Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: MSS on August 17, 2024, 12:35:08 pm
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Bases on the CEO photos I don't see how this PCN is sustainable, signs in the bay always overrule zone signs:
(https://i.imgur.com/WRLI3pT.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/TUoty5k.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/kasQTw5.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Xg8TlFd.jpeg)
@MSS I've replied to your PM.
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Did you suggest they should be using the 2, or more, panel form in local areas and in the main. Thanks.
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Newham would reject no matter what you challenged on provided it was indeed an event day.
That's a cert.
I don't seem to be able to find any Newham site which is definitive for event days.
Seems the London Stadium maintain a site for current and future events in the Olympic Stadium but there is nothing historical. And the Council say the site may not be accurate, is not under their control and they are not responsible for errors and ommisions.
The London Stadium site doesn't include events held in the park. So how is a person supposed to be able to confirm an "event day"?
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Did you suggest they should be using the 2, or more, panel form in local areas and in the main. Thanks.
I think now I would have challenged only on the sign but you can still bring this in as I worded the challenge as post-PCN homework. Point being you did initially think it didn't apply on Sunday.
Newham would reject no matter what you challenged on provided it was indeed an event day.
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Did you suggest they should be using the 2, or more, panel form in local areas and in the main. Thanks.
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Agreed.
I checked a few other stadiums'(are we allowed to say this now!)local areas and in the main they follow the 2, or more, panel form.
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My reading of the traffic sign in reply #2 is that 'event days' only have effect if they are Mon-Sat, the effect being to extend the hours. I cannot find anything which extends the restricted days. If they wanted to do this then the sign should be composite with two panels with the top dealing with Mon-Sat and the lower dealing with Event Days.
That's a good point and not one I think we've made before. Should say event days Mon-Sun to show difference in separate plate.
Let's compare with Islington's Emirates stadium signage - separate plates and lo and behold also a plate with a phone number to call that tells you if it's an event day.
(https://i.ibb.co/4Zdq6Y3/Screenshot-2024-08-24-at-20-29-01.png)
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My reading of the traffic sign in reply #2 is that 'event days' only have effect if they are Mon-Sat, the effect being to extend the hours. I cannot find anything which extends the restricted days. If they wanted to do this then the sign should be composite with two panels with the top dealing with Mon-Sat and the lower dealing with Event Days.
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Representation is sent and will let you know the outcome. Thanks.
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I would send the below. I've been out of the loop though so may be missing something on event day challenges. Newham will reject no matter what you say although it's weird that I can find no record anywhere of an event day on 11 August.
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I am challenging the PCN on the grounds that the contravention did not occur and may have been issued in error.
If the PCN was issued owing to the parking place being subject to event day controls, I could find no mention at the location of whether an event day was in operation and no indication by the council of any way to find out.
I am aware that the previous day (10 August) was subject to an event day as West Ham were playing but I can find nothing about 11 August.
My route to Litchfield Avenue was from the Bow roundabout through High Street (A118) to Broadway then briefly to Romford Road, left to Deanery Road to Litchfield Avenue.
I am aware that event days are signed below zone entry signs but it seems that any sign must have been a long way from the parking place on the busy A118 and it would seem to be wholly unreasonable for you to rely on this alone to notify drivers of restrictions in a large zone such that details of dates and zone type are easily seen.
I ask should you reject this challenge to provide evidence of reasonable signage for my case.
Otherwise I look forward to your early cancellation of this PCN.
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Could you please let me have the challenge to submit to the council. Tomorrow is the 14 days limit.
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Thank you. Very much appreciated.
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I will help you draft a challenge.
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After getting suggestions from posting my case in this forum, I have decided to put my representations against the penalty change on the ground that I did not see/observe any date for the event at the entry of my journey route on 11 August 2024.
I would be grateful if you suggest me anything on the ground I stated above before 24 August (the date I'm going to put the representations forward finally to the council).
Many thanks!
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Back of the PCN:
https://imgur.com/a/afkQFns
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Pics back of the PCN:
https://imgur.com/a/afkQFns
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This is one of Newham's ridiculous zones - the entry sign for zone S on that route is way back on the High Street and back in 2019 there was just one sign on this busy road. There were building works after this which may have altered the sign position.
It seems another person who is a resident got a PCN on 11 August too but we've not heard back - could be worth contacting them:
https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/newham-pcn-event-day/msg32946/#msg32946
(https://i.ibb.co/5G9TTV1/Screenshot-2024-08-18-at-17-18-33.png)
(https://i.ibb.co/4jC5kjc/Screenshot-2024-08-18-at-18-43-33.png)
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Stamf means post your draft challenge here for comment before submitting to the Council (but do not miss deadlines - which I make the 24th for a challenge made within 14days - most councils will re-offer the discount in rejecting a challenge mafe within the discount period).
P.S. May we see the back of the PCN , please.
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Did you mean whatever I send, I take a snap shot and post it here first then there?
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Don't send anything without posting here first.
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Thank you for asking. Actually, I started from Dod street to A12 then Bow round about through high street (A118) to Broadway and passed IBIS hotel London Stratford then briefly to Romford road then take left to Deanery road to Litchfield ave.
I am going to put a representation by stating that I didn't see any dates for the event on my journey route.
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What was your route to where you parked.
I've tried again to find an event for 11 August but can't.
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You will have to do some homework and legwork. Find out the extent of the zone area, and look for the entry sign on your route to the parking location where you got the PCN. You need to also submit representations stating that you saw no dates for the event on your journey. If they come back and say "it's all on our website", then they are on the way to losing at the adjudicators, because they have then failed their legal obligations to place signs for the restriction date.
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How do I find out whether they had posted the event date on the signs at the entry points to the parking zone? And also, where is the entry point of the parking zone?
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What will happen with the PCN then if there was an event and general public were not aware?
The PCN will be enforced, because the council will claim they posted the event date on the signs at the entry points to the parking zone. You have to prove they didn't do this.
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What will happen with the PCN then if there was an event and general public were not aware?
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According to newham webiste this was the event that took place on the 11th
https://www.newham.gov.uk/news/article/1313/uk-black-pride-returns-to-newham-s-queen-elizabeth-olympic-park-for-the-third-year-running-on-11-august-2024#:~:text=11%20August%202024-,UK%20Black%20Pride%20returns%20to%20Newham's%20Queen%20Elizabeth%20Olympic%20Park,running%20on%2011%20August%202024&text=The%20world's%20largest%20celebration%20for,on%20Sunday%2C%2011%20August%202024
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I saw the picture which CEO has taken is the correct location. I've no clue if it was a event day.
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West Ham played at home the day before and I can't see an event day at London Stadium for 11 August but that doesn't mean there wasn't something else in the area.
Spotting the entry signs on main roads in these often large zones and having no idea how to check if it's an event day when you reach a bay is unreasonable as we've often said. The parking signs don't even tell you what borough you're in.
Eg this zone I think has signs some way back on Romford Road:
https://maps.app.goo.gl/TDNaoafpsaweMdUA7
The CEO took a pic of this sign along with a few pics of your car:
(https://i.ibb.co/Ms8PW6w/image.png)
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Was it an "event day"?
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Hi all,
I was hoping to get some help on a PCN I was issued in Newham on Sunday 11/08/2024. The issue is as below. I would appreciate if you could advise / help on this matter.
Pics of issued PCN:
https://imgur.com/a/ZdLEEsf
Pics of my Ford Fiesta Black car parked at Litchfield avenue (sorry no PCN is on my car):
https://imgur.com/a/FPQv4WJ
Location pics of Litchfield Avenue (I parked in front of where the blue car is parked on this picture beside 'Waverley Lodge' on roadside):
https://maps.app.goo.gl/aydsVCqLwiHi31aW6
Contravention: Contravention code 12, parked in a residents' or shared use parking place or zone without a valid virtual permit or clearly displaying a valid physical permit or voucher or pay and display ticket issued for that place where required.
Location: Litchfield Avenue, Stratford (Besides Solar House), Off Romford road London
Date: 11/08/2024, Sunday
On Sunday, I came at Litchfield avenue to park my car at around 11 am and saw a car space (Pics given). The parking space is for a pay parking (Monday to Saturday), so I thought I can park free on Sunday. Therefore, I didn't hesitate to park. When I came back at around 1:40 pm, I saw a penalty notice on my car. I was shocked and surprised.
Based on the above, I would request you to kindly cancel this PCN.
Many thanks!