Free Traffic Legal Advice

Live cases legal advice => Private parking tickets => Topic started by: Natedog on August 16, 2024, 05:38:11 pm

Title: Re: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
Post by: Natedog on December 19, 2025, 02:05:38 pm
That is great, thank you. I’ll keep you updated. I am going to ring them now.
Title: Re: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
Post by: b789 on December 19, 2025, 01:59:21 pm
I refer you to this post for an almost identical situation yesterday:

Re: Letter from Courts - URGENT (https://www.ftla.uk/private-parking-tickets/letter-from-courts-urgent/msg103081/#msg103081)
Title: Re: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
Post by: Natedog on December 19, 2025, 01:52:52 pm
It really is ridiculous! I was thinking about giving them a call, as they’ve provided a number on the email.
Title: Re: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
Post by: DWMB2 on December 19, 2025, 01:51:22 pm
That seems a bit ridiculous, and it may be worth contacting them to request a change. If you had said (for example) that you were unavailable for 2 months that might be another matter, but 13 days doesn't seem excessive.
Title: Re: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
Post by: Natedog on December 19, 2025, 01:49:19 pm
13 days in February from the 10th. And they’ve scheduled the appointment for the 13th!
Title: Re: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
Post by: DWMB2 on December 19, 2025, 01:47:54 pm
Out of interest how long was the period for which you said you were unavailable?
Title: Re: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
Post by: Natedog on December 19, 2025, 01:43:01 pm
So just an update….I sent off my DQ with dates I can’t do mediation. And I have just had an email with my mediation appointment in between them dates.
This is what the email said…..

You have provided dates to avoid on your Directions Questionnaire which exceed the deadline we have to arrange a mediation appointment. The dates to avoid have been noted but we are unable to hold on to cases for significant periods of time. Your case has therefore been assigned the following appointment.

What is the point of providing dates then?! Such incompetence!
Title: Re: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
Post by: b789 on October 21, 2025, 04:02:57 pm
I suggest you block the DCB Legal phone number.
Title: Re: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
Post by: Natedog on October 21, 2025, 12:07:02 pm
Today I received a phone call from DCB legal. They offered me an out of court settlement of £200. Reduced from £270. I declined, and they said that they will go ahead with court proceedings.
Title: Re: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
Post by: Natedog on October 11, 2025, 01:28:03 pm
So I have submitted my defence on the MCOL website now. And I have also sent the email to DCB Legal as advised.
I will keep you updated with any responses I receive. Many thanks.
Title: Re: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
Post by: Natedog on October 07, 2025, 06:55:23 pm
I will do everything you have said. I cannot thank you enough for your help. I will let you know if I receive any response from DCB legal after I send the email. Thanks again.
Title: Re: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
Post by: b789 on October 07, 2025, 06:46:16 pm
As that claim has been signed by Sarah Ensall, you should send the following email to DCB Legal at info@dcblegal.co.uk and CC yourself:

Quote
Quote
Subject: Claim [insert court reference] – N1SDT signed by Sarah Ensall: authority to conduct litigation and regulatory notice

Dear Sir/Madam,

I refer to the Claim Form (N1SDT) filed/served in this matter. The document is signed by Sara Ensall, position stated as "Claimants Legal Representative", and purports to be signed on behalf of the Claimant’s solicitor.

Please confirm by return:

1. Ms Ensall's role, and whether she is an authorised person within the meaning of the Legal Services Act 2007 with current rights to conduct litigation (provide SRA or CILEX number and practising status). If not authorised,
2. The precise exemption relied upon under Schedule 3 of the Legal Services Act 2007 that permits this individual personally to conduct litigation and sign this document in these proceedings (if relying on a court order, provide the sealed order; if relying on an enactment, identify it precisely).

For the avoidance of doubt:
• Preparing, signing, filing, or serving an N1SDT is an act of conducting litigation, a reserved legal activity.
• Following Mazur v Charles Russell Speechlys LLP [2025], unqualified employees may assist but cannot themselves conduct litigation unless authorised or exempt.

Action required:
• Confirm the above within 7 days.
• If the document was not signed by an authorised (or exempt) person, re-file and serve a compliant version personally signed by an authorised individual, with their full name clearly stated.

Costs and regulatory notice:
If the document was signed by a person not authorised or exempt, or must be re-filed/served to correct the signatory’s identity/status, I, as a litigant in person, will treat this as unreasonable conduct. In line with Mazur and CPR 27.14(2)(g), I will invite the Court, in its discretion, to order the Claimant to pay the Defendant’s costs caused by your firm’s irregular conduct, and, if appropriate, to consider wasted costs against representatives.

Further, carrying on a reserved legal activity without entitlement is a criminal offence under the Legal Services Act 2007. If any unauthorised conduct of litigation has occurred, I will report the matter to the Solicitors Regulation Authority without further notice and reserve the right to place this correspondence before the Court.

Yours faithfully,

[Full Name]
[Postal Address]
[Email]
Title: Re: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
Post by: b789 on October 07, 2025, 06:41:31 pm
With an issue date of 30th September you have until 4pm on Monday 20th October to submit your defence. If you submit an Acknowledgement of Service (AoS) before then, you would then have until 4pm on Monday 3rd November to submit your defence.

You only need to submit an AoS if you need extra time to prepare your defence. If you want to submit an AoS then follow the instructions in this linked PDF:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/xvqu3bask5m0zir/money-claim-online-How-to-Acknowledge.pdf?dl=0

ntil very recently, we never advised using the MCOL to submit a defence. However, due to recent systemic failures within the CNBC, we feel that it is safer to now submit a short defence using MCOL as it is instantly submitted and entered into the "system". Whilst it will deny the use of some formatting or inclusion of transcripts etc. these can always be included with the Witness Statement (WS) later, if it ever progresses that far.

You will need to copy and paste it into the defence text box on MCOL. It has been checked to make sure that it will fit into the 122 lines limit.

Quote
1. The Defendant denies the claim in its entirety. The Defendant asserts that there is no liability to the Claimant and that no debt is owed. The claim is without merit and does not adequately disclose any comprehensible cause of action.

2. There is a lack of precise detail in the Particulars of Claim (PoC) in respect of the factual and legal allegations made against the Defendant such that the PoC do not adequately comply with CPR 16.4.

3. The Defendant is unable to plead properly to the PoC because:

(a) The contract referred to is not detailed or attached to the PoC in accordance with PD 16, para 7.3(1);

(b) The PoC do not state the exact wording of the clause (or clauses) of the terms and conditions of the contract (or contracts) which is/are relied on;

(c) The PoC do not adequately set out the reason (or reasons) why the claimant asserts the defendant has breached the contract (or contracts);

(d) The PoC do not state with sufficient particularity exactly where the breach occurred, the exact time when the breach occurred and how long it is alleged that the vehicle was parked before the parking charge was allegedly incurred;

(e) The PoC do not state precisely how the sum claimed is calculated, including the basis for any statutory interest, damages, or other charges;

(f) The PoC do not state what proportion of the claim is the parking charge and what proportion is damages;

(g) The PoC do not provide clarity on whether the Defendant is sued as the driver or the keeper of the vehicle, as the claimant cannot plead alternative causes of action without specificity.

4. The Defendant submits that courts have previously struck out materially similar claims of their own initiative for failure to adequately comply with CPR 16.4, particularly where the Particulars of Claim failed to specify the contractual terms relied upon or explain the alleged breach with sufficient clarity.

5. In comparable cases involving modest sums, judges have found that requiring further case management steps would be disproportionate and contrary to the overriding objective. Accordingly, strike-out was deemed appropriate. The Defendant submits that the same reasoning applies in this case and invites the court to adopt a similar approach by striking out the claim due to the Claimant’s failure to adequately comply with CPR 16.4, rather than permitting an amendment. The Defendant proposes that the following Order be made:

Draft Order:

Of the Court's own initiative and upon reading the particulars of claim and the defence.

AND the court being of the view that the particulars of claim do not adequately comply with CPR 16.4(1)(a) because: (a) they do not set out the exact wording of the clause (or clauses) of the terms and conditions of the contract which is (or are) relied on; and (b) they do not adequately set out the reason (or reasons) why the claimant asserts that the defendant was in breach of contract.

AND the claimant could have complied with CPR 16.4(1)(a) had it served separate detailed particulars of claim, as it could have done pursuant to PD 7C, para 5.2, but chose not to do so.

AND upon the Court determining, having regard to the overriding objective (CPR 1.1), that it would be disproportionate to direct further pleadings or to allot any further share of the Court’s resources to this claim (for example by ordering further particulars of claim and a further defence, with consequent case management).

ORDER:

1. The claim is struck out.

2. Permission to either party to apply to set aside, vary or stay this order by application on notice, which must be filed at this Court not more than 7 days after service of this order, failing which no such application may be made.
Title: Re: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
Post by: Natedog on October 07, 2025, 06:21:55 pm
Also, I’m not sure what day I received the letter as I have only just got back from holiday today. I’m guessing maybe a few days from the issue date which was the 30th Sep
Title: Re: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
Post by: Natedog on October 07, 2025, 05:48:26 pm
Here is the links to the photos…

https://ibb.co/qZKczmW
https://ibb.co/d4nkYnq7
Title: Re: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
Post by: b789 on October 07, 2025, 05:29:31 pm
What is the issue date on the claim form. Better still, why not show it to us and inly redact your personal details, the claim number and the MCOL parroted. We only need to see the N1SDT Claim Form itself and the back of it with the name of the person who signed it. You can discard ALL the other bits of paper that came with it.
Title: Re: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
Post by: Natedog on October 07, 2025, 05:13:23 pm
So basically, I have received a pack from the courts asking if I want to defend the case or admit it. This is where I am in the process.
Title: Re: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
Post by: jfollows on October 07, 2025, 05:04:22 pm
I’m not sure we can remember where you’re at in the process, it’s probably documented above in some way but if you can post what you’re referring to it might be helpful. Google Drive or similar?
Without this it seems rather one sided.
Title: Re: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
Post by: Natedog on October 07, 2025, 04:41:12 pm
Hi, so I have received a pack from the courts now. I’m guessing all I need to to do is send it back stating I wish to defend the case along with my defence?
Is there anything else you suggest I do or is that everything? Thanks.
Title: Re: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
Post by: Natedog on September 09, 2025, 04:04:51 pm
Ok, no problem. Thanks for the reply.
Title: Re: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
Post by: jfollows on September 09, 2025, 11:53:19 am
Hi guys, in the email from DCB legal it states that their client may be willing to settle. Do you think it is worth me giving them a call to find out what sort of settlement they are proposing?
No.
You will pay £0 if you stay the course.
Title: Re: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
Post by: Natedog on September 09, 2025, 11:26:59 am
Hi guys, in the email from DCB legal it states that their client may be willing to settle. Do you think it is worth me giving them a call to find out what sort of settlement they are proposing?
Title: Re: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
Post by: Natedog on August 28, 2025, 11:55:03 am
Should I reply to them? I’m surprised they didn’t put the offer of the settlement in the email.
Title: Re: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
Post by: Natedog on August 28, 2025, 10:55:28 am
All of the letters they have sent me asking for payment. My appeal to them. The pictures of my vehicle with the timestamp and two pictures of the parking sign.
Title: Re: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
Post by: DWMB2 on August 28, 2025, 10:49:50 am
Please find attached all evidence we currently have on file. 
What was attached?
Title: Re: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
Post by: Natedog on August 28, 2025, 10:43:14 am
I sent the email to Ms Mwamba yesterday. It nearly slipped my mind. And this was her reply…..

Dear xxxxxxxxxxxxxx,

 

We write in response to your correspondence received in our office dated 27th August 2025.

 

We have made a record of the contents of your correspondence and noted this on your file accordingly. We now respond to the same as follows.

 

In due course, the Court will order that both parties file and serve all evidence they intend to rely on. We confirm you will therefore receive all relevant evidence in advance of the hearing. 

   

Please find attached all evidence we currently have on file. 

 

DCB Legal have been instructed as all previous attempts to resolve this matter have been unsuccessful. 

   

Having reviewed this matter further with our client, I can confirm that our Client may be prepared to settle the matter. 

   

Please contact us within 22 days on 0203 434 0433 to have a without prejudice discussion. 

   

We look forward to hearing from you. 

   

We would ask that you kindly furnish us with your most up to date telephone number and email address, this can be emailed to us at info@dcblegal.co.uk. 

       

Alternatively, you can contact DCB Legal Ltd on 0203 838 7038 to make payment over the telephone or online at https://dcblegal.co.uk/response/pay-online/

Kind Regards,
 
Isabel Mwamba
Administration Associate
DCB Legal Ltd
Title: Re: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
Post by: Natedog on August 20, 2025, 05:50:22 pm
Thank you, I will send that over to her.
Title: Re: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
Post by: b789 on August 20, 2025, 11:33:35 am
You can respond to Ms Mwamba with the following:

Quote
Subject: Your Ref: [insert] – Keeper liability, misstatements of law, and PAPDC non-compliance

Dear Sirs,

Thank you for your letter. It will serve as a useful exhibit of your client’s approach to both evidence and law. A few corrections are required and should your client persist in issuing proceedings, it will be adduced as evidence of procedural and legal illiteracy.

1) PoFA Schedule 4 is conditional, not aspirational

You quote  PoFA para 4(1) but omit para 4(2): any right to recover from a keeper “applies only if” the statutory conditions are met (including strict compliance with the NtK requirements). Please provide the complete NtK relied upon, together with proof of posting, so that compliance with all mandatory elements (e.g. period of parking, relevant land, the prescribed 9(2)(f) warning, timings) can be verified. Absent strict compliance, keeper liability is not available.

2) There is no presumption that the keeper was the driver

Your assertion “if you were not the driver, you would have nominated” attempts to invert the burden of proof. There is no s.172 duty in civil parking claims; silence is neutral. If you allege I was the driver, you must plead and prove it. Persuasive County Court authority has rejected precisely this “we conclude you were the driver because you didn’t name one” gambit (e.g. VCS v Edward (2023) [H0KF6C9C]). This line of argument is legally baseless and professionally embarrassing. Kindly refrain.

3) DVLA data and tracing

Obtaining my DVLA-registered keeper details and tracing an address says nothing about driver identity or PoFA compliance. It goes to service, not liability.

4) “Warden observed” and signage assertions

If you intend to allege a contract was formed and breached, produce the contemporaneous evidence you will rely upon:

• All photos/video with timestamps/metadata; the attendant’s notebook entries; and any handheld device logs.
• A signage plan and clear, date-stamped photos showing the exact signs in situ at the material time (including charge prominence, font sizes and mounting heights).
• The written landowner contract conferring standing on the operator to issue PCNs and litigate in its own name (not a redacted agent letter). Trade-association templates do not replace proof of title to sue.

5) The £70 add-on

Your £70 “debt recovery” bolt-on is an unrecoverable attempt at double recovery. Small-claims costs are governed by CPR 27.14; signage or trade-association wording cannot conjure a new head of damages. Put simply: the court will not award it.

6) VAT diversion

Your VAT diversion is a non sequitur—irrelevant to liability, and transparently deployed to pad a hollow claim. Whether the core charge is outside the scope of VAT has no bearing on keeper liability, contract formation, or the unlawfulness of the £70 add-on.

7) Protocol

Your letter still fails the Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims. Re-issue a PAPDC-letter and all documents you intend to rely upon (NtK, landowner contract, signage plan/photos, full VRM/permit audit trail, attendant notes, and any maintenance/outage logs). I will then respond within 30 days of receipt of a compliant bundle.

For the avoidance of doubt: I am the registered keeper. I am not obliged to identify the driver and decline to do so. If your client cannot (a) prove strict PoFA compliance or (b) adduce cogent evidence of driver identity, any claim will be defended and I will seek sanctions for unreasonable conduct under CPR 27.14(2)(g). If you insist on issuing regardless, please proceed; I will be pleased to place your “keeper = driver because they didn’t nominate” reasoning before a judge.

Yours faithfully,

[Name]
Title: Re: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
Post by: Natedog on August 20, 2025, 09:36:57 am
So here is the reply I received from DCB legal…..

Dear xxxxxxxxxx

 

We write in response to your correspondence received in our office dated 8th July 2025.     

 

We have made a record of the contents of your correspondence and noted this on your file accordingly. We now respond to the same as follows.

 

Prior to the issue of the parking charge, our Client applied to the DVLA for the details of the Registered Keeper of the Vehicle. Your name and address (xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx) were provided. Our Client therefore correctly issued correspondence to you at that address. Having not received payment, address verification was carried out prior to the Letter of Claim being sent. Your address was located and as such the Letter of Claim was issued to you at the traced address, which has remained unchanged.

 

Further to the above, Schedule 4 (4)(1) of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (“the Act”) states “The creditor has the right to recover any unpaid parking charges from the keeper of the vehicle”. For the purpose of the Act; “keeper” means the person by whom the vehicle is kept at the time the vehicle was parked, which in the case of a registered vehicle is to be presumed, unless the contrary is proved, to be the registered keeper. The DVLA confirmed that you were the Registered Keeper at the time the parking charge notice was issued and as such you are presumed to be the Keeper. Our Client therefore has the right to recover the parking charge from you as the Keeper of the vehicle.

 

It is our position that on the balance of probabilities, if you were not the driver, you would have nominated.

 

The initial parking charge was not affixed to the vehicle, at the material time but was however observed by a warden. After the parking contravention was observed the Notice to keeper was sent to your address.

 

 

When parking on private land, the contractual terms of the site are set out on the signs. You are entering a contract and agreeing to the terms by parking and staying on the site. Parking in breach of the terms as stipulated on the signage means that you are then breaking the terms of the contract. The breach in contract would make you liable for a parking charge.

 

The signage on site, is erected in line with our Clients regulators (BPA) in order to allow a reasonable driver to be notified of the terms and conditions operating on the site prior to them parking their vehicle. As such the signage on site, is sufficient given the size and capacity of the car park. Images of the signs are enclosed.

 

The terms and conditions on the signs stated that parking was permitted for vehicles clearly displaying a valid permit/ticket, or otherwise a parking charge notice would be issued. A valid permit/ticket was not on display on the date of contravention and as such the parking charge was issued correctly.
 
 
You should always be vigilant when entering any land that you are not familiar with or that you know is privately owned and there are parking terms in place. As the driver of the vehicle it is your responsibility at all material times to ensure you understand the terms and conditions operating on the land prior to exiting your vehicle. Furthermore, it is your responsibility to ensure that you have read and understood the terms operating prior to parking your vehicle.     

 

An appeal with our client directly which was unsuccessful. To date our clients position remains the same and as such your appeal and their response is enclosed within this correspondence.

 

 In regard to the debt recovery fee of £70.00 being claimed, you would have been made aware of this through the signs available on the car parks site as previously mentioned above. The sum added is a contribution to the actual costs incurred by our Client as a result of your non-payment. Our Client’s employees have spent time and material attempting to recover the debt. This is not our Client’s usual business and the resources could have been better spent in other areas of the business. Had you of paid as per the Contract, there would have been no need for recovery action so the amount due would not have increased.

 

The HMRC ‘VAT Supply and Consideration manual’ (VATSC06140), which was last updated on 02 September 2020, confirmed that parking charge notices falls out of the scope of VAT. There is no requirement for a VAT invoice to be issued to you.

 

You may wish to seek independent legal advice in this regard. Our client pursuing this matter through the Small Claims Court is the correct course of action.

 

DCB Legal have been instructed as all previous attempts to resolve the matter have been unsuccessful.

 

 

You now have 30 days from the date of this email/letter to make payment of £170.00. Failure to make payment will result in a Claim being issued against you without any further reference.


Payment can be made via bank transfer to our designated client account: -

Account Name: DCB Legal Ltd Client Account
Sort Code: 20-24-09
Account Number: 60964441
 

You must quote the correct case reference (xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx) when making payment. If you do not, we may be unable to correctly allocate the payment. If further action is taken by us as a result of an incorrect reference being quoted, you will be liable for any further fees or costs incurred.

 

We would ask that you kindly furnish us with your most up to date telephone number and email address, this can be emailed to us at info@dcblegal.co.uk.

 

Alternatively, you can contact DCB Legal Ltd on 0203 838 7038 to make payment over the telephone or online at https://dcblegal.co.uk/response/pay-online/.

Kind Regards,
 
Isabel Mwamba
Administration Associate
DCB Legal Ltd
Title: Re: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
Post by: b789 on July 24, 2025, 08:08:58 pm
Typical POPLA male bovine excrement. POPLA’s response is full of contradictions and avoids dealing with the actual legal issues you raised. They try to defend the assessor’s decision, but their reasoning doesn’t hold up.

First, they claim that a single image with a timestamp is enough to show a “period of parking” under the law. That’s wrong. The law requires a duration, not just a moment in time. The Brennan v Premier Park case confirms this. A timestamp alone doesn’t meet the legal requirement.

Second, they refer to a rule in the BPA Code (Section 13.4) that says some drivers don’t get a 5-minute grace period. But that rule only applies to special spaces like disabled bays or emergency exits. It doesn’t apply to general permit areas like the one in your case. They’re misusing that rule to justify ignoring the grace period.

Third, they dismiss your point about the driver’s actions. They say it’s not relevant because the vehicle wasn’t authorised to park. But that’s not how the law works. The operator has to prove a contract was formed. If the assessor can’t tell whether the driver saw the signs, then they can’t say a contract was formed. Ignoring this is unfair and legally incorrect.

Fourth, they say the signage isn’t prohibitive because it allows permit holders to park. But the sign says “NO UNAUTHORISED PARKING,” which is a prohibition. That kind of wording doesn’t offer parking—it forbids it. You can’t form a contract from a sign that doesn’t offer anything.

Fifth, they claim the parking charge was clearly displayed, but they don’t explain how. They don’t compare it to the standards set in the Beavis case. They just say the assessor was satisfied, without showing any evidence.

Finally, they say their assessors are well trained and impartial, even though they’re funded by the parking industry. That’s a conflict of interest. Their decisions often favour operators, and their training clearly isn’t good enough if they keep making basic legal mistakes.

Anyway, it matters not in the grand scheme of things for now.
Title: Re: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
Post by: Natedog on July 24, 2025, 05:08:45 pm
So I have finally received a response to my POPLA complaint……

Dear ……………
 
Your complaint about POPLA case ***********
 
Thank you for your webform complaint form outlining the reasons why you are unhappy with the decision that has been reached by the assessor in your appeal. This was passed to me by the POPLA team as I am responsible for investigating complaints.
 
We offer a single stage determinative process, and we would not change a decision because either party disputes the assessor’s decision. However, we may consider an appeal if there has been a procedural error, for example – if we failed to consider evidence provided by the motorist. We cannot consider further evidence after the appeal has been completed. We cannot consider further evidence or new grounds of appeal after the appeal has been completed.
 
It is worth pointing out that before submitting an appeal, our website informs appellants that POPLA is a one-stage appeal service, and we cannot reconsider your appeal if you disagree with our decision.
 
The crux of your complaint is that you are unhappy with the outcome reached in the assessment of your appeal.
 
You state the assessor has failed to apply the Protection of Freedoms Act (POFA) 2012 as no period of parking is specified and as such, the Notice to Keeper does not comply with Schedule 4, Paragraph 9(2)(a), which states that the notice must: “Specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates.”
 
You explain the Notice to Keeper only provides a single time stamp which is a critical failure as a single moment does not constitute a period of parking or a recorded time span of observation.
 
I note you have referenced Brennan versus Premier Park.
 
You advise the period of parking must exceed the minimum consideration period and section 13.1 of the British Parking Association code of practice must be given a minimum of a five-minute consideration period.
 
You state if UKPC ‘s own evidence only records one minute; it is legally insufficient as it does not demonstrate the vehicle was parked for longer than the consideration period.
 
You explain the assessors reasoning regarding the drivers’ actions are absurd and legally irrelevant as the burden of proof rests entirely with the operator to prove a contravention occurred and if the assessor could not determine if the driver was reviewing the signs, they should be equally unable to determine that they were not reviewing the signs.
You advise by default, UKPC has failed to provide sufficient evidence to show a contract was formed before the motorist left the site.
 
The car park in question is for registered users only. Any motorists that parks on this site must have a valid permit,
 
At the time the vehicle was observed by the warden, the driver was not within the vehicle and as no permit was displayed, the terms and conditions were breached.
 
Section 13.4 of the BPA code states unauthorised motorists will not be entitled to the minimum time period of 5 minutes for a consideration period in spaces designated for specific users e.g. Blue Badge holders, pick up/drop off or where parking is prohibited such as hatched areas in front of emergency exits, or on entry and exit ramps etc.
 
Therefore, as motorists cannot pay to park between specific times on this site and the car park does not have a maximum parking period, the single image captured by the warden is sufficient to show the period of parking as required by POFA.
 
I acknowledge your comments regarding the assessor’s reasoning regarding the driver’s actions however, as the vehicle was not authorised to park and was not registered for a permit and therefore, was not entitled to a consideration period, I do not consider this be relevant.
 
You state the assessor disregarded to prohibitory nature of the signage as these state no unauthorised parking which is not an offer of parking under specific terms, it is a prohibition and therefore a contract cannot be formed.
 
You explain a contract require an offer acceptance and consideration, yet the signs do not offer parking it simply prohibits unauthorised vehicles.
The signage on this site only prohibits unauthorised vehicles from parking. The parking contract allows vehicles that are registered for a permit to park on site, therefore, I do not agree that the signage on this site are prohibitive.
 
You advise the signage does not prominently display the parking charge amount in a manner which would make it an obvious and the supreme court ruling in Parking Eye versus Beavis established the terms must be prominent,
 
When considering an appeal, the assessor will review the evidence provided by both parties. They will base their decision on
Relevant law
The British Parking Association's code of practice
Evidence provided by both parties
 
They will then use their own judgment in reaching their outcome.
 
On reviewing the decision, it is clear the assessor has considered this ground, and they were satisfied the parking charge amount was sufficiently prominent and met the requirements of section 19.4 of the BPA code and POFA.
 
On reviewing the evidence provided, I agree with the assessor’s determination.
 
You state that POPLA assessors fail to understand POFA and apply basic law. You advise POPLA consistently favour operators and apply different standards to appellants and operators and POPLA training standards are substandard and exhibit a deficiency in assessors’ knowledge.
POPLA has been appointed by the BPA to consider appeals against its members.
 
We are funded by the BPA. We charge the BPA for each case that we decide, and they pass the costs on to the industry. We charge the same fee regardless of the outcome of the case so our decisions are not commercially driven.
 
Neither the British Parking Association or any operator has any control over our decision-making and, therefore, we are impartial and independent of the sector.
 
You have requested:

A written response acknowledging that the decision contained material legal errors.

On reviewing both the appeal and your complaint, I am satisfied the decision reached is appropriate based on the evidence presented and there are no errors within the decision.
 
Confirmation that this complaint has been recorded.
Your complaint has been recorded in line with the POPLA process.
 
You state that POPLA assessors fail to understand POFA and apply basic law. You advise POPLA consistently favour operators and apply different standards to appellants and operators and POPLA training standards are substandard and exhibit a deficiency in assessors’ knowledge.
And would like confirmation of:
 
An internal review of how POFA training is delivered to POPLA assessors.
 
A response explaining why POPLA continues to misapply POFA, despite these issues being raised in multiple formal complaints.
 
I note your comments, and I can confirm that all POPLA assessors receive appropriate training on the relevant laws and the BPA code or practice.
 
All assessors must also pass an accreditation process following their training programme and receive regular internal quality audits as well as coaching and personal development.
 
If an assessor is found to misunderstand POFA, they will receive appropriate additional training and support.
 
You state you understand that POPLA decision has no legal weight and is not binding on you. Therefore, should the operator try and litigate over this, you will argue this case before a properly trained judge in court, where the assessors legally flawed determination will be exposed.
 
You are of course, free to pursue this matter further, through other means, such as the Courts. For independent legal advice, please contact Citizens Advice at: www.citizensadvice.org.uk or call 0345 404 05 06 (English) or 0345 404 0505 (Welsh).
 
I am sorry that your experience of using our service has not been positive. However, POPLA’s involvement in your appeal has now ended and this response concludes our complaints process. It will not be appropriate for us to correspond further on this matter and all further correspondence will be noted on your case but not responded to.
 
Yours sincerely,

Paul Garrity
POPLA Complaints
Title: Re: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
Post by: b789 on July 08, 2025, 10:39:13 am
Just wait for the response to your response to the LoC.
Title: Re: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
Post by: Natedog on July 08, 2025, 09:26:54 am
Ok. Thanks for that information.
Title: Re: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
Post by: DWMB2 on July 08, 2025, 09:21:16 am
It'll probably go to a claim. They'll very likely discontinue before the hearing fee is due: DCB LEGAL RECORD OF PRIVATE PARKING COURT CLAIM DISCONTINUATIONS (https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6377263/dcb-legal-record-of-private-parking-court-claim-discontinuations/p1)
Title: Re: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
Post by: Natedog on July 08, 2025, 09:16:28 am
Ok that’s fine. I have replied by email as instructed. Can I ask if you think this will actually go to court in the end?
Title: Re: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
Post by: DWMB2 on July 08, 2025, 09:13:49 am
No, you should respond by email as advised. They'll respond with some nonsense no doubt, and eventually an actual claim.
Title: Re: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
Post by: Natedog on July 08, 2025, 09:11:10 am
I have emailed POPLA and asked why they haven’t responded.

As regards to the LOC. I have sent the reply to the email as you suggested. They sent an automatic response. At the bottom of the email, it said this……

Should you be in receipt of a letter of claim, please visit www.dcblegal.co.uk/response where you will find further information and be able to reply to the form accordingly.

Should I also use this form to respond as well or not? Also, what sort of reply should I expect?

Sorry for all the questions. Thank you for helping me with this matter.
Title: Re: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
Post by: b789 on July 05, 2025, 09:18:39 am
You should ask them why they have not responded.
Title: Re: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
Post by: Natedog on July 04, 2025, 05:12:42 pm
Yes, I just sent the whole email that you constructed. Obviously I added the relevant reference numbers to the appeal in etc.

Do you think I should re-send it and then ring up in the week to confirm they have received it?
Title: Re: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
Post by: b789 on July 04, 2025, 03:56:30 pm
But did you make the formal complaint about the assessors errors as advised?
Title: Re: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
Post by: Natedog on July 04, 2025, 03:53:37 pm
No I didn’t receive a response. The only thing I received from POPLA was a copy of some evidence I requested. Which didn’t turn out as useful as I thought it might.

I will send this email to DCB Legal as instructed. Thanks for your help.

Title: Re: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
Post by: b789 on July 04, 2025, 02:40:04 pm
Did you not get a response from POPLA after sending the complaint as advised?

Email your response to the LoC to info@dcblegal.co.uk and CC yourself with the following:

Quote
Dear Sirs,

Your Letter Before Claim contains insufficient detail of the claim and fails to provide copies of evidence your client places reliance upon and thus is in complete contravention of the Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims.

I am the registered keeper of the vehicle. I am not obliged to identify the driver and I decline to do so. As there is no legal presumption that the keeper of a vehicle was its driver on any particular occasion, your client cannot pursue me as driver as per VCS v Edward (2023) [H0KF6C9C] (https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/yvxek3kfwtb3qent3lj6y/VCS-Limited-v-Ian-Mark-Edward-H0KF6C9C.pdf?rlkey=niecohfdtj1n1ysh5prbsp52p&e=1&dl=0).

Because your letter lacks specificity and breaches the requirements of the Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims (paragraphs 3.1(a)-(d), 5.1 and 5.2) as well as the Practice Direction - Pre-Action Conduct (paragraphs 6(a) and 6(c)), you must treat this letter as a formal request for all of the documents/information that the protocol now requires your client to provide. Your client must not issue proceedings without complying with that protocol.

As solicitors you must surely be familiar with the requirements of both the Practice Direction and the Pre-Action Protocol for debt claims and your client, as a serial litigator of debt claims, should likewise be aware of them. As you (and your client) must know, the Practice Direction and Protocol bind all potential litigants, whatever the size or type of the claim. Its express purpose is to assist parties in understanding the claim and their respective positions in relation to it, to enable parties to take stock of their positions and to negotiate a settlement, or at least narrow the issues, without incurring the costs of court proceedings or using up valuable court time. It is embarrassing that a firm of Solicitors are sending a consumer a vague and un-evidenced 'Letter of Claim' in complete ignorance of the pre-existing Practice Direction and the Pre-Action Protocol.

I confirm that, once I am in receipt of a Letter Before Claim that complies with the requirements of para 3.1 (a) of the Pre-Action Protocol, I shall then seek advice and submit a formal response within 30 days, as required by the Protocol. Thus, I require your client to comply with its obligations by sending me the following information/documents:

1. An explanation of the cause of action
2. whether they are pursuing me as driver or keeper
3. whether they are relying on the provisions of Schedule 4 of POFA 2012
4. what the details of the claim are; for how long it is claimed the vehicle was parked, how the monies being claimed arose and have been calculated
5. Is the claim for a contractual breach? If so, what is the date of the agreement? The names of the parties to it and provide to me a copy of that contract.
6. If the claim is for a contractual breach, photographs showing the vehicle was parked in contravention of said contract.
7. Is the claim for trespass? If so, provide details.
8. Provide me a copy of the contract with the landowner under which they assert authority to bring the claim, as required by the BPA/IPC Private Parking Single Code of Practice (PPSCoP).
9. a plan showing where any signs were displayed
10. Photographs of the signs displayed (size of sign, size of font, height at which displayed) at the time of any alleged contravention.
11. Provide details of the original charge, and detail any interest and administrative or other charges added
12. Am I to understand that the additional £70 represents what is dressed up as a 'Debt Recovery' fee, and if so, is this nett or inclusive of VAT? If the latter, would you kindly explain why I am being asked to pay the operator’s VAT?
13. With regard to the principal alleged PCN sum: Is this damages, or will it be pleaded as consideration for parking?

I am clearly entitled to this information under paragraphs 6(a) and 6(c) of the Practice Direction. I also need it in order to comply with my own obligations under paragraph 6(b).

If your client does not provide me with this information then I put you on notice that I will be relying on the cases of Webb Resolutions Ltd v Waller Needham & Green [2012] EWHC 3529 (Ch), Daejan Investments Limited v The Park West Club Limited (Part 20) Buxton Associates [2003] EWHC 2872, Charles Church Developments Ltd v Stent Foundations Limited & Peter Dann Limited [2007] EWHC 855 in asking the court to impose sanctions on your client and to order a stay of the proceedings, pursuant to paragraphs 13, 15(b) and (c) and 16 of the Practice Direction, as referred to in paragraph 7.2 of the Protocol.

Until your client has complied with its obligations and provided this information, I am unable to respond properly to the alleged claim and to consider my position in relation to it, and it is entirely premature (and a waste of costs and court time) for your client to issue proceedings. Should your client do so, then I will seek an immediate stay pursuant to paragraph 15(b) of the Practice Direction and an order that this information is provided.

Yours faithfully,

[Your name]
Title: Re: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
Post by: Natedog on July 04, 2025, 02:03:46 pm
Hi guys, so I have received today a Letter of Claim from DCB legal. And yes, it states I have 30 days to settle.

What are the next procedures to follow with this please?
Title: Re: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
Post by: Natedog on May 29, 2025, 09:44:09 pm
Ah ok. Yes, it will be binned like the other letters. It doesn’t mention anything about LOC. They’ve obviously tried to word it different to make me think it’s important. They really are scumbags!
Title: Re: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
Post by: b789 on May 29, 2025, 08:37:18 pm
A “notice of intended legal action” from a powerless, bottom dwelling debt collector such as DCBL is nothing but the type of rubbish you have been told to ignore. Anything from a debt collector should be ignored and binned.

When you receive an LoC, which will give you 30 days, not 14 days to pay, then that is probably the LoC. Oh, and it will be titles “Letter of Claim” or “Letter Before Claim” or some such title.
Title: Re: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
Post by: jfollows on May 29, 2025, 06:39:12 pm
Show it to us, but it’s very likely it’s from DCB Legal instead of DCBL, who are related but different companies.

Letter of Claim?
Title: Re: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
Post by: Natedog on May 29, 2025, 06:30:02 pm
Hi guys,

I have been ignoring the letters from DCBL. The latest one I have received is a ‘notice of intended legal action’
It states I can avoid legal action if paid today.

Is this the letter you told me to look out for, or should I bin this one too?

Thanks.
Title: Re: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
Post by: Natedog on March 08, 2025, 04:30:55 pm
Will do, thanks!
Title: Re: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
Post by: b789 on March 08, 2025, 04:16:35 pm
Ah, never mind. I hadn't read back through the whole thread. Just continue to ignore all DRA letters. When you receive a Letter of Claim (LoC), most likely from DCB Legal (not DCBL), then come back and we'll advise on the next step.
Title: Re: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
Post by: Natedog on March 08, 2025, 02:47:56 pm
No they haven’t, my POPLA appeal wasn’t successful.
Title: Re: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
Post by: b789 on March 08, 2025, 01:01:46 pm
If they have sent you a DRA letter whilst your appeal is still being considered by POPLA then they are in breach of the PPSCoP which warrants a formal complaint to the operator, the BPA and the DVLA.

PPSCoP section 8.4.7 states:

Quote
Where the driver, keeper or hirer lodges an appeal with the relevant Appeals Service, enforcement proceedings and/or debt resolution must either not
commence or, where commenced, must be suspended until the Appeals Service determines the appeal.

A breach of the PPSCoP is a breach of the KADOE contract and the DVLA, as the data controller, is bound to investigate any reported breach and act accordingly.
Title: Re: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
Post by: Natedog on March 08, 2025, 11:07:06 am
Just to let you guys know, I received my first letter from DRA. It was from the company you mentioned DCBL. I will be ignoring them.
Title: Re: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
Post by: Natedog on February 03, 2025, 03:57:25 pm
That is perfect. Thanks, I will be sending that reply.
Title: Re: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
Post by: b789 on February 03, 2025, 02:13:51 pm
Here is a suggested formal complaint to POPLA:

Quote
Subject: Formal Complaint – POPLA Decision Contains Legal Errors

POPLA reference: [POPLA reference No.]

To: POPLA Complaints Team

Dear Sir/Madam,

This is a formal complaint regarding the fundamentally flawed decision made by POPLA Assessor Michael Pirks in my appeal against UK Parking Control Ltd (UKPC). Your assessor has erred in law, demonstrating either a complete misunderstanding of PoFA 2012 or deliberate disregard for the law in order to favour the parking operator.

I have no expectation that POPLA will reverse its decision—I am well aware that your organisation never admits fault, no matter how blatant the error. However, I insist that this complaint be formally recorded, as it highlights not just the ineptitude of one assessor, but the substandard legal training provided to POPLA staff.

I understand that POPLA’s decision is not binding on me. However, should the operator persist and try to litigate, I have no issue contesting this matter before a properly trained judge in an actual court of law, where the glaring legal errors made in this POPLA decision will be exposed and dismissed accordingly.

1. Assessor’s Failure to Apply PoFA 2012 – No "Period of Parking" Specified

The Notice to Keeper (NtK) fails to comply with PoFA 2012, Schedule 4, Paragraph 9(2)(a), which states that the notice must:

“Specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates.”

Instead of providing a period of parking, UKPC’s NtK merely states a single timestamp (01:54).

This is a critical failure for two reasons:

• A single moment in time does not constitute a "period of parking". A period, by definition, requires a duration—a start time and an end time, or at least a recorded timespan of observation.

• In the persuasive appellate court decision, Brennan v Premier Parking Solutions Ltd (2023), it was confirmed that a parking charge notice must specify a period of parking that the notice relates to, not just a timestamp.

Your assessor completely ignored this fundamental requirement and erroneously concluded that the NtK was PoFA-compliant. This is a clear and undoubted misapplication of the law.

2. The "Period of Parking" Must Also Exceed the Minimum Consideration Period

Not only must a Notice to Keeper specify a period of parking, but that period must exceed the minimum consideration period.

The British Parking Association (BPA) Code of Practice v9, Section 13.1 states:

"The driver must have the chance to consider the Terms and Conditions before entering into the 'parking contract' with you. If, having had that opportunity, the driver decides not to park but chooses to leave the car park, you must provide them with a reasonable consideration period to leave before the driver can be bound by your parking contract. The amount of time in these instances will vary depending on site size and type but it must be a minimum of 5 minutes."

The Brennan ruling explicitly stated that the "period of parking" recorded on a Notice to Keeper must be at least a short duration.

If the operator’s own evidence only records 1 minute, it is legally insufficient because it does not demonstrate that the vehicle was parked for longer than the consideration period. Your assessor has not accounted for this requirement at all, despite the fact that it is a basic, established principle of parking enforcement.

Had Michael Pirks been adequately trained, he would know that an NtK which fails to:

• Specify a period of parking (rather than just a timestamp); and

• Demonstrate that the period exceeded the minimum consideration time

does not comply with PoFA 2012, and thus, keeper liability cannot be established. This failure to apply both the law and the BPA Code of Practice is a clear demonstration of either negligence or bias.

3. Assessor’s Nonsensical Reasoning Regarding the Driver’s Actions

Your assessor stated:

"As the appellant has not stated what the motorist was doing at the site, I am unable to determine if they were reviewing the terms or not."

This is an absurd and legally irrelevant argument.

• The burden of proof rests entirely with the operator to prove a contravention occurred.

• If the assessor "is unable to determine" whether the driver was reviewing the signs, then he is equally unable to determine that they were NOT reviewing the signs.

• By default, this means the operator has failed to provide sufficient evidence to show a contract was formed before the motorist left the site.

This completely nonsensical statement exposes a fundamental misunderstanding of burden of proof and basic legal fairness.

4. Wilful Disregard of the Prohibitory Nature of Signage – No Contract Formed

The signage in question states: "NO UNAUTHORISED PARKING."

This is not an offer of parking under specific terms—it is a prohibition. The signage is prohibitory in nature and therefore cannot form a contract.

The most prominent wording on the sign is "NO UNAUTHORISED PARKING." This is a prohibition, not an offer of parking under specific terms. A contract requires an offer, acceptance, and consideration, yet this sign does not offer parking—it simply forbids unauthorised vehicles. This aligns with the legal principle that prohibitory notices do not create a contractual agreement, because they do not extend an invitation to park under specific conditions.

Furthermore, UKPC’s signage does not prominently display the parking charge amount in a manner that would make it an obvious term of any alleged contract. The Supreme Court ruling in ParkingEye v Beavis (2015) established that terms must be prominently displayed to be binding. After providing photographic evidence and comparing the signs with the one in the Beavis case, this was simply dismissed.

(https://i.imgur.com/rlvjXni.jpeg)

5. POPLA’s Systemic Problem – Substandard Training & Bias

This decision does not just expose the inadequacy of a single assessor—it demonstrates a wider problem within POPLA.

• Your assessors fail to understand PoFA.

• Your assessors fail to apply basic contract law.

• Your assessors consistently favour operators, applying different standards to appellants and operators.

If Michael Pirks is considered "trained", then POPLA’s training standards are clearly substandard and exhibit a deficiency in your assessors legal knowledge.

6. My Request (Although I expect it to be ignored)

Given the catalogue of legal errors, misinterpretations, and biased reasoning in this case, I formally request the following:

1. A written response acknowledging that the decision contained material legal errors. (I don't expect this will be forthcoming, but I’m asking anyway.)

2. An internal review of how PoFA training is delivered to your assessors.

3. Confirmation that this complaint has been recorded and that a review of Michael Pirks’ competence will be conducted.

4. A response explaining why POPLA continues to misapply PoFA, despite these issues being raised in multiple formal complaints.

I fully expect POPLA to refuse to admit fault, because that is what POPLA does. However, I understand that your decision has no legal weight and is not binding on me.

Should the operator try and litigate over this, I will argue this case before a properly trained judge in court, where your assessors legally flawed determination will be exposed.

I expect a formal response within 14 days.

Yours sincerely,

[Your Name]
[Your Contact Information]
Title: Re: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
Post by: Natedog on February 03, 2025, 12:46:00 pm
Hi, thank you for that info which I will be following. The assessors name was Michael Pirks. And yes, I’ve come this far now I may as well complain to POPLA about the decision.
Title: Re: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
Post by: b789 on February 03, 2025, 12:30:30 pm
Don't worry. The POPLA decision is not binding on you. Please tell us the name of the feckwit assessor. There are a few that are in serious need of re-training.

You won't be paying a penny to UKPC. If you ar cup for it you could send a formal complaint to POPLA but it won't change their decision, even though you can show that the assessor has erred in law. It may give some satisfaction knowing that they must respond to a formal complaint.

What is going to happen, going forward, assuming your landowner complaint doesn't get the PCN cancelled, is that you will start to receive useless debt collector letters from their Debt Recovery Agent (DRA) of choice. Probably DCBL but could any of a number of powerless DRAs.

You can safely ignore all DRA letters. They are not a party to the contract allegedly breach by the driver. All they can do is try and scare the low-hanging fruit on the gullible tree to pay up out of ignorance and fear. Never, ever, ever, communicate with a useless DRA. Just ignore them.

Was you will be looking out for is a Letter of Claim (LoC), most likely going to be issued by DCB Legal, a pathetic firm of failed wannabe legals. What I can assure you of, is that any claim issued by DCB Legal, as long as it is defended, will eventually be discontinued.

We will advise on all stages of the process and you can be safe in the knowledge that they won't be getting a penny out of you if you follow the advice. For now, please tell us the POPLA assessors name and whether you want to send POPLA a formal letter of complaint about their assessors error in law.
Title: Re: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
Post by: Natedog on February 03, 2025, 10:59:25 am
I have also just written out a letter of complaint to the landowner which I will copy underneath. If you can think of anything else to add please let me know. Thanks

Dear Sir/Madam,

I am writing to you to complain about the predacious actions of the parking agent operating at your business premises, UKPC, who have issued a parking charge notice to the vehicle of which I am the registered keeper, xxxx xxx, on 08.08.2024. The PCN reference is xxxxxxxxxxxxx, issued on 12.08.2024.

The driver of the vehicle was making a delivery to a local business on the business park. Unfortunately, they couldn’t locate the business as it was dark and they couldn’t see any signage. They couldn’t pull over on the road, as this was the night of the potential riots in Hackney, and as such, there were multiple police vehicles parked along the road.
So they pulled into your car park to check their delivery details and read the parking signage on display.

I then received a PCN as the registered keeper. The evidence was a few photos taken of the vehicle, presumably taken whilst the driver was reading the signage.

I find this very unfair that I have received a PCN, with evidence of the vehicle being ‘parked’ for a minute. As consumers of your products, this attempt to extort money from me in the form of an unregulated parking 'ticket' has left a bitter taste in my mouth to be honest. And I now begrudge buying any of your products.

I am reaching out to you, asking can you get this PCN cancelled as a gesture of goodwill, as my solicitor has advised me that you, as the landowner, are capable of having this PCN cancelled. I will go to court with UKPC to defend this ‘ticket’ as I feel I have been treated unfairly, but I thought I would write to you to save the agonising court process I will endure.
I would welcome your own view on this harassment and hope you see fit to ensure that UKPC cancel the 'ticket' forthwith.

Yours faithfully,
Title: Re: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
Post by: Natedog on February 03, 2025, 10:51:44 am
When assessing an appeal POPLA considers if the operator has issued the parking charge notice correctly and if the driver has complied with the terms and conditions for the use of the car park.

 The parking operator has provided photographs of the signs, stating that motorists must be parked within a designated bay with a valid permit displayed, and failure to comply with the terms and conditions will result in the issue of a £100 PCN.

The parking operator has provided a copy of the templated permit motorists must display whilst on the site. I acknowledge the appellant has explained that they are appealing as the registered keeper of the vehicle and the identity of the driver is not admitted, and the parking operator has not provided proof of who was driving.

They go onto say that the parking operator has failed to issue the Notice to Keeper as part of PoFA 2012, as no period of parking was specified. They go on to say that the parking operator’s notice images show the start timestamp as 01:53 and the last being 01:54 however, the duration of parking is not indicated. The Protection of Freedoms Act (PoFA) 2012 is a law that allows parking operators to transfer the liability to the registered keeper in the event that the driver or hirer is not identified. Parking operators have to follow certain rules including warning the registered keeper that they will be liable if the parking operator is not provided with the name and address of the driver. Furthermore, the parking operator must issue a PCN to be received within the required timescale. Section 9 states the PCN must be issued within 14 days. The parking operator has provided a copy of the Notice to Keeper sent to the Registered Keeper. I have reviewed the Notice to Keeper against the relevant sections of PoFA 2012 and I am satisfied that it is compliant. I can also see that PCN was issued within the relevant period, as the contravention took place on 8 August 2024 and the Notice to Keeper was issued on 12 August 2024.

 I do note that the Notice to Keeper also states the registered keeper will be responsible for the parking charge if the driver’s details are not provided within 28 days.

As the appellant has not provided these details, I am satisfied the parking operator has successfully transferred liability onto the registered keeper and therefore, I will be considering their liability for the parking charge. Whilst I appreciate the appellant’s comments, the onsite parking attendant would have taken photographic images of the contravention and the operator would not have known how long the motorist was parked at the site in total. As the appellant has not stated what the motorist was doing at the site, I am unable to determine if they were reviewing the terms or not. As such, these comments about the time stamped images have no bearing on my decision. Having considered the photographic images provided by the parking, the vehicle was parked on the site without a valid permit, matching the templated permit provided in the case file and therefore, the PCN has been issued.

I acknowledge the appellant says that a consideration period should be considered to locate and understand the signage under the BPA code of practice. The British Parking Association (BPA) has a Code of Practice which set the standards its parking operators need to comply with. Section 13.1 of the Code requires parking operators to allow the driver a period of five minutes to read the signage and decide if they are going to stay or go if the site is one where parking is permitted.

Section 13.4 of the code goes on to state that unauthorised motorists will not be entitled to the minimum time period of 5 minutes for a consideration period in spaces designated for specific users or where parking is not allowed. In this case, as the motorist has stayed on the site without displaying a valid permit, they have already breached the parking terms.

As I have already explained earlier in my assessment, the appellant has not explained why the motorist was on the site and therefore, I am unable to determine if they were reviewing the signs during their stay. I note the appellant has challenged the signage on the site, stating that the signs are inadequate and do not comply, so no contract can be formed and fails the requirements of PoFA, including that the PCN fee is prominently shown, and the signage is not BPA compliant. They say that there is no entrance sign, the signs cannot be read whilst driving and all the other information on the signs is in small text, apart from the No Unauthorised Parking term.

 I also note the appellant sys that the signage is inadequate under low light conditions, as the contravention took place early morning, when it was dark. The appellant has also stated that the Notice to Keeper fails to specify the exact location within the business park and numerous areas are un-signposted. They go on to say that the relevant land must be specified under Schedule 4 of PoFA. As part of their extensive comments, the appellant has highlighted the Denning LJ’s "red hand rule" as the £100 PCN is unreasonable and is not prominently displayed for the motorists’ attention, the signage images provided are false Section 19.2 of the code of practice states that entrance signs must tell drivers that the car park is managed and that there are terms and conditions they must be aware of. Section 19.3 continues that signs containing the specific parking terms throughout the site, so that drivers are given the chance to read them at the time of parking or leaving their vehicle. Signs must be conspicuous and legible, and written in intelligible language, so that they are easy to see, read and understand. In its evidence, the parking operator has provided photographs of the onsite signs stating the full terms and conditions.

The images and site map show that there are multiple signs displayed across the car park, including a signs at the entrance point to the site, which is suitable considering the layout of the site. The signs are positioned at a height as to not be obstructed by vehicles, which makes them easy to read and I am satisfied that the size of the writing is clear so that the terms and the PCN charge can be read. Appendix B of the code of practice talks about signs being always readable and understandable, including during the hours of darkness or at dusk if parking enforcement activity takes place at those times.

In this case, I can see that the signs are not displayed on lighting poles from the images provided however, there appears to be overhead lighting provided which makes it clear for the signs to be visible and the parking terms clear to see. Section 19.4 of the Code of Practice states that if parking operators intend to use the keeper liability provisions in Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act (PoFA) 2012, the signs must give adequate notice of the charge. There are minimum standards set out in Section 19 of the BPA Code of Practice. The Act then moved on to define “adequate notice” as follows: (3) For the purposes of sub-paragraph (2) “adequate notice” means notice given by: (a) the display of one or more notices in accordance with any applicable requirements prescribed in regulations under paragraph 12 for, or for purposes including, the purposes of sub-paragraph (2); or (b) where no such requirements apply, the display of one or more notices which: (i) specify the sum as the charge for unauthorised parking; and (ii) are adequate to bring the charge to the notice of drivers who park vehicles on the relevant land.

Even in circumstances where PoFA 2012 does not apply, I believe this to be a reasonable standard to use when making my own independent assessment of the signage in place at the location. Although I appreciate the appellant says that the Notice to Keeper does not specifically state where the contravention took place and numerous areas are un-signposted, the site map also shows me the boundaries of the site managed by the parking operator, with one entry and exit point.

Furthermore, I can see from the image on page 6 of the case summary that a sign is displayed with close proximity to where the vehicle was parked. In the absence of any evidence to support otherwise, I am satisfied the motorist was parked within the boundaries of the parking operator’s site and the PCN has correctly captured where the breach took place.

 Whilst I note the appellant’s extensive comments, I am satisfied from the evidence provided by the parking operator that the signage is conspicuous and clearly outlines the terms of parking on the site. I am satisfied the motorist was afforded ample opportunity to review the terms. Whilst I acknowledge the appellant has referred to the Red Hand Rule this has no bearing on my decision.

The Supreme Court considered private parking charges in a high-profile case, Parking Eye v Beavis, and decided that a charge did not need to reflect any actual loss incurred by a parking operator or landowner. The Court’s full judgement in the case is available online should the appellant want to read it.

 In their further comments to the parking operator’s case file, the appellant says that the document provided for the landowner does not demonstrate that the parking operator has the legal standing to issue and pursue parking charges so the contract is insufficient. Section 7.1 of the Code of Practice outlines that parking operators must have written authorisation from the landowner or their agent, to manage the land in question. This can come in the form of a witness statement under Section 23.16B of the BPA Code of Practice or a full contract.

The parking operator has provided two documents, the site map which is signed and dated by the and landowner and a Terms and Conditions document, outlining the agreement that is place. It is clear from these documents that the definition of the land in question has been established.

I am satisfied that the contract provided meets the requirements of the code of practice. In their comments to the parking operator’s evidence, the appellant has expanded on their listed of grounds of appeal in extensive detail, including that the parking operator has not appropriately rebutted the grounds they have raised. Whilst I note these comments, I have already addressed these grounds and therefore, these comments do not invalidate the issue of the parking charge.

POPLA’s role is to assess if the parking operator has issued the charge in accordance with the conditions of the contract. As the terms and conditions of the car park have not been met, I conclude that the parking operator has issued the PCN correctly, and the appeal is refused.
Title: Re: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
Post by: DWMB2 on February 03, 2025, 10:24:09 am
Any chance you can format that decision into paragraphs? In its current form it appears as a solid wall of text and is hard to read.

Am I right in thinking, if I stated in the appeal that the driver had left the vehicle to read the signage then the decision would have been different?
I've given up trying to predict how assessors will rule. Can be a lottery. Either way, one can only state things as they were, not as they might have been in order to create a more favourable narrative.
Title: Re: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
Post by: Natedog on February 03, 2025, 08:56:09 am
Am I right in thinking, if I stated in the appeal that the driver had left the vehicle to read the signage then the decision would have been different?
Title: Re: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
Post by: Natedog on February 03, 2025, 08:53:39 am
Just an update guys. POPLA have declined my appeal. This is what they have said……

When assessing an appeal POPLA considers if the operator has issued the parking charge notice correctly and if the driver has complied with the terms and conditions for the use of the car park. The parking operator has provided photographs of the signs, stating that motorists must be parked within a designated bay with a valid permit displayed, and failure to comply with the terms and conditions will result in the issue of a £100 PCN. The parking operator has provided a copy of the templated permit motorists must display whilst on the site. I acknowledge the appellant has explained that they are appealing as the registered keeper of the vehicle and the identity of the driver is not admitted, and the parking operator has not provided proof of who was driving. They go onto say that the parking operator has failed to issue the Notice to Keeper as part of PoFA 2012, as no period of parking was specified. They go on to say that the parking operator’s notice images show the start timestamp as 01:53 and the last being 01:54 however, the duration of parking is not indicated. The Protection of Freedoms Act (PoFA) 2012 is a law that allows parking operators to transfer the liability to the registered keeper in the event that the driver or hirer is not identified. Parking operators have to follow certain rules including warning the registered keeper that they will be liable if the parking operator is not provided with the name and address of the driver. Furthermore, the parking operator must issue a PCN to be received within the required timescale. Section 9 states the PCN must be issued within 14 days. The parking operator has provided a copy of the Notice to Keeper sent to the Registered Keeper. I have reviewed the Notice to Keeper against the relevant sections of PoFA 2012 and I am satisfied that it is compliant. I can also see that PCN was issued within the relevant period, as the contravention took place on 8 August 2024 and the Notice to Keeper was issued on 12 August 2024. I do note that the Notice to Keeper also states the registered keeper will be responsible for the parking charge if the driver’s details are not provided within 28 days. As the appellant has not provided these details, I am satisfied the parking operator has successfully transferred liability onto the registered keeper and therefore, I will be considering their liability for the parking charge. Whilst I appreciate the appellant’s comments, the onsite parking attendant would have taken photographic images of the contravention and the operator would not have known how long the motorist was parked at the site in total. As the appellant has not stated what the motorist was doing at the site, I am unable to determine if they were reviewing the terms or not. As such, these comments about the time stamped images have no bearing on my decision. Having considered the photographic images provided by the parking, the vehicle was parked on the site without a valid permit, matching the templated permit provided in the case file and therefore, the PCN has been issued. I acknowledge the appellant says that a consideration period should be considered to locate and understand the signage under the BPA code of practice. The British Parking Association (BPA) has a Code of Practice which set the standards its parking operators need to comply with. Section 13.1 of the Code requires parking operators to allow the driver a period of five minutes to read the signage and decide if they are going to stay or go if the site is one where parking is permitted. Section 13.4 of the code goes on to state that unauthorised motorists will not be entitled to the minimum time period of 5 minutes for a consideration period in spaces designated for specific users or where parking is not allowed. In this case, as the motorist has stayed on the site without displaying a valid permit, they have already breached the parking terms. As I have already explained earlier in my assessment, the appellant has not explained why the motorist was on the site and therefore, I am unable to determine if they were reviewing the signs during their stay. I note the appellant has challenged the signage on the site, stating that the signs are inadequate and do not comply, so no contract can be formed and fails the requirements of PoFA, including that the PCN fee is prominently shown, and the signage is not BPA compliant. They say that there is no entrance sign, the signs cannot be read whilst driving and all the other information on the signs is in small text, apart from the No Unauthorised Parking term. I also note the appellant sys that the signage is inadequate under low light conditions, as the contravention took place early morning, when it was dark. The appellant has also stated that the Notice to Keeper fails to specify the exact location within the business park and numerous areas are un-signposted. They go on to say that the relevant land must be specified under Schedule 4 of PoFA. As part of their extensive comments, the appellant has highlighted the Denning LJ’s "red hand rule" as the £100 PCN is unreasonable and is not prominently displayed for the motorists’ attention, the signage images provided are false Section 19.2 of the code of practice states that entrance signs must tell drivers that the car park is managed and that there are terms and conditions they must be aware of. Section 19.3 continues that signs containing the specific parking terms throughout the site, so that drivers are given the chance to read them at the time of parking or leaving their vehicle. Signs must be conspicuous and legible, and written in intelligible language, so that they are easy to see, read and understand. In its evidence, the parking operator has provided photographs of the onsite signs stating the full terms and conditions. The images and site map show that there are multiple signs displayed across the car park, including a signs at the entrance point to the site, which is suitable considering the layout of the site. The signs are positioned at a height as to not be obstructed by vehicles, which makes them easy to read and I am satisfied that the size of the writing is clear so that the terms and the PCN charge can be read. Appendix B of the code of practice talks about signs being always readable and understandable, including during the hours of darkness or at dusk if parking enforcement activity takes place at those times. In this case, I can see that the signs are not displayed on lighting poles from the images provided however, there appears to be overhead lighting provided which makes it clear for the signs to be visible and the parking terms clear to see. Section 19.4 of the Code of Practice states that if parking operators intend to use the keeper liability provisions in Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act (PoFA) 2012, the signs must give adequate notice of the charge. There are minimum standards set out in Section 19 of the BPA Code of Practice. The Act then moved on to define “adequate notice” as follows: (3) For the purposes of sub-paragraph (2) “adequate notice” means notice given by: (a) the display of one or more notices in accordance with any applicable requirements prescribed in regulations under paragraph 12 for, or for purposes including, the purposes of sub-paragraph (2); or (b) where no such requirements apply, the display of one or more notices which: (i) specify the sum as the charge for unauthorised parking; and (ii) are adequate to bring the charge to the notice of drivers who park vehicles on the relevant land. Even in circumstances where PoFA 2012 does not apply, I believe this to be a reasonable standard to use when making my own independent assessment of the signage in place at the location. Although I appreciate the appellant says that the Notice to Keeper does not specifically state where the contravention took place and numerous areas are un-signposted, the site map also shows me the boundaries of the site managed by the parking operator, with one entry and exit point. Furthermore, I can see from the image on page 6 of the case summary that a sign is displayed with close proximity to where the vehicle was parked. In the absence of any evidence to support otherwise, I am satisfied the motorist was parked within the boundaries of the parking operator’s site and the PCN has correctly captured where the breach took place. Whilst I note the appellant’s extensive comments, I am satisfied from the evidence provided by the parking operator that the signage is conspicuous and clearly outlines the terms of parking on the site. I am satisfied the motorist was afforded ample opportunity to review the terms. Whilst I acknowledge the appellant has referred to the Red Hand Rule this has no bearing on my decision. The Supreme Court considered private parking charges in a high-profile case, Parking Eye v Beavis, and decided that a charge did not need to reflect any actual loss incurred by a parking operator or landowner. The Court’s full judgement in the case is available online should the appellant want to read it. In their further comments to the parking operator’s case file, the appellant says that the document provided for the landowner does not demonstrate that the parking operator has the legal standing to issue and pursue parking charges so the contract is insufficient. Section 7.1 of the Code of Practice outlines that parking operators must have written authorisation from the landowner or their agent, to manage the land in question. This can come in the form of a witness statement under Section 23.16B of the BPA Code of Practice or a full contract. The parking operator has provided two documents, the site map which is signed and dated by the and landowner and a Terms and Conditions document, outlining the agreement that is place. It is clear from these documents that the definition of the land in question has been established. In the absence of any evidence to support otherwise, I am satisfied that the contract provided meets the requirements of the code of practice. In their comments to the parking operator’s evidence, the appellant has expanded on their listed of grounds of appeal in extensive detail, including that the parking operator has not appropriately rebutted the grounds they have raised. Whilst I note these comments, I have already addressed these grounds and therefore, these comments do not invalidate the issue of the parking charge. POPLA’s role is to assess if the parking operator has issued the charge in accordance with the conditions of the contract. As the terms and conditions of the car park have not been met, I conclude that the parking operator has issued the PCN correctly, and the appeal is refused.
Title: Re: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
Post by: b789 on November 02, 2024, 12:08:13 pm
So you add to the summary already provided that not only are UKPC being mendacious when they state:

Quote
These notices are placed throughout the car park.

We ensure that signage is ample, clear and visible, wholly in line with the British Parking Association Code of Practice.

There are sufficient signs advising drivers that parking without a permit may result in a parking charge being issued.

They are outright lying.

However, you cannot upload images to the response to the operator. You will need to respond with links to the image I provided you and also with links to various GSV views showing that the signs are not present.
Title: Re: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
Post by: Natedog on November 02, 2024, 11:18:44 am
Ok thank you for that. I will raise that point when I comment on their evidence.
Title: Re: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
Post by: b789 on November 02, 2024, 09:34:38 am
Looking at UKPCs site map of sign locations in 2018 and traversing the location in GSV with photos from August 2022, it is obvious that UKPC are lying through their teeth and this should be pointed out in the appeal.

Every red circle in the image below is a location where there is no UKPC sign as claimed:

(https://i.imgur.com/86J1464.jpeg)
Title: Re: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
Post by: Natedog on November 02, 2024, 07:51:51 am
Here is the further evidence files on imgur…..

https://imgur.com/a/fQUfNqN
Title: Re: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
Post by: b789 on October 30, 2024, 10:03:50 am
None of those links work. Either use DropBox to host a file or use Imgur.com to host images.

If you're still unsure of how to post files, please re-read the Forum rules thread.
Title: Re: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
Post by: DWMB2 on October 29, 2024, 03:53:07 pm
It might be worth adding a sentence or two to point #9 acknowledging their comment. For example:

In their operator response, UKPC claim they have a rolling contract with the landowner, however, this is contradicted by the contract they have produced, which is clearly for a fixed term of 1 year beginning November 2018, with no clauses relating to extension or renewal. UKPC have provided no evidence that their contract to operate on this site continued after this initial fixed term.
Title: Re: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
Post by: Natedog on October 29, 2024, 03:50:52 pm
Thank you for that response, I will copy and paste that and reply to the evidence with them points.
Title: Re: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
Post by: b789 on October 29, 2024, 03:45:04 pm
But they've provided no evidence of a rolling contract.
Title: Re: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
Post by: DWMB2 on October 29, 2024, 03:44:44 pm
They might claim that, but it is not what the document shows.
Title: Re: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
Post by: Natedog on October 29, 2024, 03:42:56 pm
I just want to add, before the list of their evidence was provided. It showed this piece of text……

Operator Name
UK Parking Control Limited - EW

Operator Case Summary

Please see case summary and additional evidence. We have provided a redacted copy, with sensitive information covered. The redacted contract confirms our authority in an ongoing agreement. If neither party terminates the contract, as in this case, the contract will continue on a rolling basis. We have provided the T&C’s in relation to the rolling contract. Thank you
Title: Re: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
Post by: b789 on October 29, 2024, 03:42:20 pm
Here's a suggested draft that can be copied and pasted into the POPLA webform response box:

Quote
UKPC has failed to adequately rebut the points in my appeal, particularly regarding the lack of compliance with PoFA, inadequate signage, and failure to provide proper notice of the parking charge. This response details how UKPC has not addressed or satisfactorily answered the following:

1. Failure to Comply with PoFA – No Period of Parking Specified:
In my appeal, I stated that the Notice to Keeper (NtK) does not comply with PoFA 2012, Schedule 4, Paragraph 9(2)(a), which requires a period of parking to be specified. UKPC's response only provides a timestamp (01:54) but fails to specify a parking period. A single timestamp does not meet the statutory requirement for a "period of parking." UKPC has not addressed this key point and has failed to demonstrate compliance with PoFA on this issue.

2. Inadequate and Non-Compliant Signage – No Contract Formed:
I highlighted that the signage is prohibitory, stating "NO UNAUTHORISED PARKING," and thus does not form a valid contract under contract law. Furthermore, the terms and conditions, including the parking charge, are hidden in small text and not clearly visible. UKPC’s response merely states that the signage complies with the BPA Code of Practice, without addressing the issue of the prohibitory nature of the signage or the poor visibility of important terms. This does not rebut the fact that no contract could have been formed with the driver.

3. Ambiguity of Location – NtK Fails to Specify Exact Location:
I argued that the NtK fails to specify the exact location of the alleged contravention within Uplands Business Park, a large industrial estate with many areas, many of which have no signage. UKPC did not address this point in their response, providing no clarification on where within the business park the vehicle was allegedly parked. This is a clear failure to comply with PoFA’s requirement to specify the relevant land.

4. UKPC Must Provide Strict Proof of Driver Identity:
Since I am appealing as the registered keeper, UKPC must provide strict proof of the driver’s identity to hold the driver liable. UKPC has failed to provide any evidence or argument addressing the identity of the driver, yet continues to assert liability. This is a critical failure, as without such proof, UKPC cannot hold me, as the keeper, liable under PoFA.

5. Consideration Period – Ability to Locate and Understand Signage:
I pointed out that UKPC did not allow sufficient time for the driver to locate and read the signage, especially in the low-light conditions at the time of the alleged contravention. UKPC’s response cited BPA Code of Practice sections 13.2 and 13.6 to argue that no grace period is required once a parking event has occurred. However, they failed to address the requirement for a consideration period before a contract can be formed. Additionally, they did not address the issue of poor visibility of signage due to darkness.

6. Signage Comparison – Failure to Provide Prominent Notice of the Parking Charge:
The comparison image that was provided further demonstrates the issues with UKPC's signage compared to the ParkingEye sign, which was referenced in the Beavis case. The UKPC signage is prohibitory, stating "NO UNAUTHORISED PARKING" in large text, suggesting no invitation to park and thus no contract can be formed. Additionally, the £100 parking charge is buried in a block of small text, making it difficult for a driver to notice or understand. This contrasts sharply with ParkingEye’s signage, where the charge of £85 is prominently displayed in large, bold text, ensuring that the motorist is clearly informed of the cost of breaching parking terms.

7. Denning LJ’s "red hand rule" states that the more unreasonable a clause is, the greater notice must be given to it. A £100 parking charge is clearly an unreasonable term, and UKPC has failed to highlight it prominently. Instead, they bury it within dense text that a driver is unlikely to read, especially in low-light conditions, which was the case here. The signage from ParkingEye, shown in the comparison, provides a clear example of how terms should be communicated to motorists, with the parking charge clearly visible. UKPC’s failure to adequately notify the driver of the parking charge means no contract was formed.

8. Operator Contract Issues:
Additionally, UKPC has provided only a few heavily redacted pages of what they claim to be a contract between themselves and the managing agent of the site. However, there are several key issues with this evidence:

9. Missing Details on Automatic Renewals or Contract Extensions:
There is also no information in the contract provided about automatic renewals, rollovers, or any extensions of the original contract. The contract appears to have ended in 2019, and without evidence of a valid, current agreement, UKPC cannot rely on this document as proof of their ongoing authority to issue parking charges at this site.

10. No Evidence of Permission from the Landowner:
The few pages provided do not demonstrate any permission flowing from the landowner to the operator, which is required to prove that UKPC has the authority to issue Parking Charge Notices on this land. It is well established that a managing agent is not necessarily the landowner, and without evidence of the landowner’s explicit authorisation, the operator cannot prove their right to enforce parking on this land.

11. On this basis, the contract UKPC has provided is insufficient to demonstrate that they have the legal standing required to issue and pursue Parking Charge Notices at this location. Without clear evidence that UKPC has a valid and current contract with the landowner, the parking charge must be cancelled.

Given these failures, UKPC has not adequately rebutted the core issues of inadequate signage, lack of clear notice of the parking charge, and the failure to comply with PoFA. The parking charge must be cancelled.
Title: Re: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
Post by: DWMB2 on October 29, 2024, 03:27:24 pm
Again show us a draft before submitting.
Title: Re: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
Post by: Natedog on October 29, 2024, 03:18:15 pm
Ok, when I comment on their evidence. I will highlight this also. Thank you.
Title: Re: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
Post by: DWMB2 on October 29, 2024, 03:15:18 pm
As above - none of what we have seen provides any information about any automatic renewals or rollovers etc. On that basis, the contract they have provided ended in 2019.
Title: Re: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
Post by: b789 on October 29, 2024, 03:12:48 pm
Where are the other 8 pages of the contract. It was signed in 2018 and was valid for a year. There is no evidence that the contract was valid at the time the PCN was issued.

Also there is no evidence of permission flowing from the landowner.
Title: Re: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
Post by: Natedog on October 29, 2024, 03:10:34 pm
https://case-attachments-popla-production.s3.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/3fa68daf-5d26-4888-b337-a5c2d860112d?response-content-disposition=attachment%3B%20filename%3D%22Uplands%2BBusiness%2BPark%2Bredacted%2Bcontract.pdf%22&X-Amz-Security-Token=IQoJb3JpZ2luX2VjEOb%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2FwEaCWV1LXdlc3QtMSJGMEQCIFRLTprnqekJq4RRyiR5zlZX1fQAZh2acCXvd2ch5SwjAiBMyotZgPUlgUjLtR%2F7D1MPJychyQN8f1fULWMzg3gqcyrhAwhfEAQaDDQ5NzA3MTg1NDExMyIMT%2BXh17w6N10ERliPKr4Dmt1g7sIYjoaLjX7SdvEalpMhtzBoO4WaFl3uolYPE3%2FdIZe3IekTGXrZ6NziEsPu0%2FeFktCDfMj0%2BI9W3PvH52CmBfqjomWtAV21hOENcvTEkM4jknBFlqhXAb3oLZXL628F18Dbd9yFdcAmDeoYGm0OFpoJKprQWbkqt%2BfSw8ytk9htZyF20LMz%2FEC6YTSDw1oJJbwqufrfqzOHsfnHhgq92uzw99Ay%2F2YWZCkvUiclflvuHg4KO2gxat%2Bj8%2Bep3bAVl7S0mJmFhLS91Y%2FkhN9wXMn9hVq1HgqhJVNNi8I67RveLBtuUOiRLZnYmrQl4Ke1%2Bic2yMMz%2BluE8wIXDyDDpPzRiH767GzSxDYcEMvvBFKkxYO1tB08K6M3dQF4fmGM4hTICb5drca2gORRmL4tyzOAcM%2FVBY97d0krXk0vKuduz00di%2FrIurl9gqbZq0z6Spj3fLblJXJUv9jkC0XRRIy3BG6RF1PsvlbdIFV0CpKPM2FVNYhLWwqB46j%2FNLWJJZX6icGQvUiYTZZ%2FBi6vm0MBq3C09492XCMvIox2gY%2BR3zDTZFZQ9F3X5%2BJjrCefnJSJXxTPDh2A65Ewhs6DuQY6pgGP2mbBQpo6iq8nBmWxiMLtkUWn6NLyIb5NUiicyJbBk%2BlwlXVDNO3GvXhqjRbdguhVzas17%2BzVgIHU7UqLbjI%2FXgWtmJ0HLY3fwRYtsG6RaYHK9fOb6Z82u1MbhJ7De5Jlmcua5ng%2Ff2lclOPrAkYmPvApvqmyY8RWpsJqtswHBpm39r%2FNxke2WgvFAqFV8UUAB6ZGj04NxF0EogPivSn2BrIDh1cr&X-Amz-Algorithm=AWS4-HMAC-SHA256&X-Amz-Date=20241029T150721Z&X-Amz-SignedHeaders=host&X-Amz-Expires=1200&X-Amz-Credential=ASIAXHO6KSIQW2S7N3QU%2F20241029%2Feu-west-1%2Fs3%2Faws4_request&X-Amz-Signature=ec8c70a9780a2ba264df284cfa0d6d586cc9aeb90870580e8aacdfcf8b43b85d
Title: Re: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
Post by: DWMB2 on October 29, 2024, 03:04:43 pm
Yes.
Title: Re: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
Post by: Natedog on October 29, 2024, 03:04:16 pm
Do you mean the contract they have with the landowner?
Title: Re: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
Post by: b789 on October 29, 2024, 02:47:47 pm
So, show us the "contract" they have provided in their operator response pack.
Title: Re: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
Post by: Natedog on October 29, 2024, 02:35:04 pm
Yes, I used it. The pictures I took were without the flash on. The car park had two big massive flood lights on it all night. I also stated in the appeal, that to get so close to the sign to read the small print I would have to climb over a fence.
Title: Re: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
Post by: DWMB2 on October 29, 2024, 02:34:47 pm
It might be wise to show us redacted copies of the letter, and show us the contract they have provided.

The letter you have copied and pasted is hard to read in the format provided as it appears as a wall of text.
Title: Re: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
Post by: b789 on October 29, 2024, 02:24:05 pm
Thanks for that, it’s good to know.
I provided a comparison of the Beavis sign with the UKPC one. Did yours that image in your POPLA appeal? "Good to know" doesn't help you if you didn't use it.

You now need to go through all your points of appeal and check with ones, if any, UKPC have not rebutted. Make a note of all those points. Also, go through their response pack and note any things that they are obviously lying about such as "UK Parking Control signage complies fully with section 18 of the British Parking Association Code of Practice and we reject the suggestion that it is vague or misleading." which is why I gave you the comparison sign which included Lord Dennis famous quote.

When you took photos of the signs, did you take any without using flash to show how unreadable they at night?
Title: Re: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
Post by: Natedog on October 29, 2024, 02:09:04 pm
So I appealed to POPLA following the template you suggested and UKPC have uploaded their evidence to the appeal.
They have uploaded a contract with the landowner, also pictures of the signage along with a letter which I will detail below…..

On the 08/08/2024, our parking operative issued a parking charge virtually to vehicle registration HG18HZT at Uplands Business Park. The parking charge was issued because the vehicle was parked on site without displaying a valid permit.
Following the parking event on 08/08/2024, UKPC had reasonable cause to obtain the details of the registered keeper from the DVLA for the purposes of issuing a Parking Charge Notice (PCN) by post- a copy of this PCN is included in this pack.
The PCN was issued on 12/08/2024
The parking charge rate was £100.00, reduced to £60.00 if payment was received within fourteen days.
An appeal was received from the vehicle driver Mr NATHAN MARREN on the 22/08/2024, which the appeals department investigated and decided to reject.
Whilst UKPC note the comments, we cannot accept them as evidence when reviewing a parking charge notice. It is the motorist's responsibility to ensure that when they leave their vehicle, they have a permit visible for inspection.
The period of parking is the time in which the vehicle was parked, which was at 01:54. I refer to section 13.4 British Parking Association Code of Practice "The driver must have the chance to consider the Terms and Conditions before entering into the 'parking contract' with you. If, having had that opportunity, the driver decides not to park but chooses to leave the car park, you must provide them with a reasonable consideration period to leave before the driver can be bound by your parking contract. The amount of time in these instances will vary dependant on site size and type but it must be a minimum of 5 minutes". As it is clear a parking event has occurred, I must refer to Section 13.2 of The BPA Code of Practice,
"13.2 The
reference to a consideration period in 13.1 shall not apply where a parking event takes place" It is also important to reference Section 13.6 of the BPA Code of Practice, "Neither a consideration period or a grace period are periods of free parking and there is no requirement for you to offer an additional allowance on top of a consideration or grace period". As the appellant failed to comply with the terms, they were not authorised to park on site and as such no grace period would be required in this case.
In this instance the motorist is not present in the vehicle so we would contest that means an event has taken place. It is our position that by parking without a permit this constitutes them parking without authorisation, which 13.4 further reinforces, stipulating that the 5 minute consideration is not required.

Keeper Liability - Following the parking event, UKPC had reasonable cause to obtain
Page
PARKING CONTROL LTD
the details of the registered keeper so that a parking charge notice could be issued by post. A copy of this notice is included in this case summary, dated 12/08/2024 .
Issued 7 days after the date of the parking event (where a Notice to Driver was not served), the parking charge notice complies fully with paragraph 9 of Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 in permitting the registered keeper to be held liable to pay this unpaid parking charge.
UKPC must maintain a consistent approach when issuing and upholding a charge. In this instance, this vehicle had been parked on site in direct breach of the terms and conditions of parking on site as stated on signage. The vehicle was parked in close proximity to UKPC signage, please see all photographic evidence to support this.
UK Parking Control signage complies fully with section 18 of the British Parking Association Code of Practice and we reject the suggestion that it is vague or misleading. Entrance signage advises motorists that terms of parking apply, and that notices within the car park should be checked to identify the full terms and conditions. These notices are placed throughout the car park. It is ultimately the responsibility of the motorist to ensure they identify the terms of parking, and then decide whether to park their vehicle, or leave the site if they are unable to meet those terms.
There is colour contrast between the text and its background found on our signage, each of which is a single solid colour. The best way UKPC have found to achieve this is to have black text on a white background. UKPC's signs are readable and understandable at all times, including during the hours of darkness or at dusk when parking enforcement activities take place.
This can be achieved in a variety of ways such as by direct lighting or by using the lighting for the parking area. If the sign itself is not directly or indirectly lit, UKPC signage has been manufactured using a retro-reflective material similar to that used on public roads and described in the Traffic Signs Manual. Dark-coloured areas do not need to be reflective.
The British Parking Association (BPA) does not stipulate that signs must be lit at night. UKPC can confirm that there is sufficient ambient lighting from lampposts or other light sources found within the site. As a result, it is our position that under these conditions, the signage would have been sufficiently visible. When designing our signage, UKPC utilize as much contrast between the various sections to ensure that they are as legible as possible in all conditions.
The parking charges issued by UK Parking Control Limited are based on a contractual agreement between UKPC and the driver, as detailed on the signage displayed in the car park. The signage states the terms and conditions of parking and explains that a parking charge will be payable if the terms are not met by the driver.
We ensure that signage is ample, clear and visible, wholly in line with the British Parking Association Code of Practice. It is settled law that a driver is deemed to have accepted the terms and conditions of parking by the act of parking and leaving a vehicle.
Ultimately, it is fundamentally the responsibility of the motorist to identify the terms of parking when leaving their vehicle on private land. If they feel they are unable to adhere to the terms, they may leave the site before agreeing to those terms.
There are sufficient signs advising drivers that parking without a permit may result in a parking charge being issued. Mr NATHAN MARREN vehicle was parked without displaying a valid permit; consequently, the parking charge was issued correctly.
A letter was sent to Mr NATHAN MARREN informing him of our decision on the 16/10/2024.
Title: Re: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
Post by: Natedog on October 17, 2024, 11:20:26 am
Thanks for that, it’s good to know.
Title: Re: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
Post by: b789 on October 17, 2024, 11:04:57 am
Here is a better image to compare with the Beavis sign to show how the notice of the charge is not adequately brought to the attention of the motorist:

(https://i.imgur.com/X7Sl1LE.jpeg)
Title: Re: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
Post by: Natedog on October 17, 2024, 09:06:56 am
So here is an image of the signage. Also, I had to climb over a fence to get this close to take the picture. I recorded a video showing the fence for POPLA. Standing behind the said fence, would make it impossible to read the print on the signage.

https://ibb.co/1GSMg28
Title: Re: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
Post by: Natedog on October 16, 2024, 05:29:36 pm
Yes, I am going to the location tonight to gather some more evidence. I will post a clear picture of the signage tomorrow.
Title: Re: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
Post by: b789 on October 16, 2024, 05:17:40 pm
So, they have evidence that the vehicle was parked for 1 minute. Those photos were most likely taken by a "bounty hunter" who is not employed by the operator and most likely a security person at the estate who is out to earn their "bonus" for their one minute of operation.

The sign photo shown in their evidence is not referenced to the location where the van was parked. Also, have a look at the difference between a UKPC sign and the on in the Beavis case:

(https://i.imgur.com/rlvjXni.jpeg)

Any chance a clearer image of the sign can be obtained?
Title: Re: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
Post by: Natedog on October 16, 2024, 04:57:49 pm
Here is some links to view the pictures…..

https://ibb.co/MS8KqYm
https://ibb.co/bbqWdBS
https://ibb.co/PckDjTJ
https://ibb.co/Tk6w5DH
https://ibb.co/WBGwmC2
Title: Re: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
Post by: b789 on October 16, 2024, 02:23:20 pm
Don't submit the POPLA appeal until you've shown us the requested photos. They can be added to the appeal to show the terrible signs and compare them to the signs in the Beavis case.
Title: Re: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
Post by: Natedog on October 16, 2024, 02:20:01 pm
Also, when I look at the PCN online. The reason for issue states….. Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit. I’m not sure if that makes a difference.
Anyway, I will make the appeal to POPLA with the template you suggested. Thanks again for your continued support.
Title: Re: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
Post by: b789 on October 16, 2024, 02:17:32 pm
Can you show us the evidential photos they have. It will be interesting to see the lighting conditions.
Title: Re: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
Post by: Natedog on October 16, 2024, 02:03:06 pm
Hi, yes the driver parked the vehicle in this car park here….. https://maps.app.goo.gl/VTsJaxgzCS5pHW4w7?g_st=ic

Also, the warden took numerous pictures of the vehicle. (Around 4/5 I think)
When looking online at the pictures taken, the time stamp on the pictures gives around 2 minutes from the first picture taken to the last one.
Title: Re: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
Post by: DWMB2 on October 16, 2024, 01:38:29 pm
I agree - my point is that the lack of additional photos means they've provided no evidence that the vehicle was even there for long enough to attract a parking charge, which is yet another ground of appeal that can be added. Worth throwing in every issue.
Title: Re: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
Post by: b789 on October 16, 2024, 01:34:22 pm
Yes... but the NtK has to mention the "period of parking", irrespective of whether there are other evidential photos.
Title: Re: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
Post by: DWMB2 on October 16, 2024, 01:32:53 pm
I'd be minded to add to point #1 - in these sort of cases taken by a warden, you often see 2 photos taken some time apart, to prove that the vehicle was there for longer than the relevant consideration period. In this case there only appears to be 1 photo, so they seemingly haven't demonstrated that the car was there for more than 5 minutes.
Title: Re: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
Post by: b789 on October 16, 2024, 01:09:24 pm
Here is a suggested outline for a POPLA appeal. It can be revised and any photos that can be provided will be added if they help the appeal.

Can you please show on Google maps exactly where in the estate the vehicle was when the driver went to find directions?

Quote
I am appealing as the registered keeper of the vehicle against the parking charge notice issued by UK Parking Control Ltd (UKPC). The grounds for my appeal are outlined below, supported by multiple failings in the Notice to Keeper (NtK) and the supporting evidence provided by UKPC. The PCN has been incorrectly issued based on the following grounds:

1. Failure to Comply with Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA) - No Period of Parking Specified

The Notice to Keeper (NtK) issued by UKPC does not comply with PoFA 2012, Schedule 4, Paragraph 9(2)(a), which mandates that the NtK MUST specify the period of parking. The NtK only provides a single timestamp (01:54:34) but fails to indicate the duration or period during which the vehicle was allegedly parked.

Without this information, the NtK does not meet the statutory conditions necessary to hold the keeper liable. UKPC cannot transfer liability to the keeper when their NtK does not comply with PoFA, and as such, the charge must be cancelled.

2. Inadequate and Non-Compliant Signage – No Contract Formed & PoFA Failure

UKPC claims that their signage is clear and prominent, citing an absurd comparison in their rejection letter to road signs that motorists are expected to read at 70 mph. This argument is not only irrelevant but laughable in the context of a car park, where signage must be legible and sufficiently prominent at low speeds or even while stationary.

a) Hidden Terms and Conditions: The only prominent wording on the sign is "NO UNAUTHORISED PARKING." All other crucial information, including the terms of parking and the parking charge, is hidden in a wall of small text, making it impossible for any driver to reasonably read or understand the contract they are purportedly agreeing to. The wording "NO UNAUTHORISED PARKING" on the sign is prohibitory in nature. A prohibitory sign cannot form the basis of a contract because it offers no invitation to park under any terms. Instead, it acts as a deterrent, merely stating that parking is not permitted. For a contract to be valid and enforceable, there must be an offer, consideration, and acceptance, none of which can occur with a prohibitory notice.

As a result, this type of signage cannot be used to form a contractual agreement, and no breach of terms could have occurred. Therefore, no parking charge can be enforced based on this inadequate and non-compliant signage.

b) Non-compliance with BPA Code of Practice: The BPA Code of Practice mandates that parking terms and charges must be clearly visible and easy to read. In this case, the signage does not meet these standards, as the essential terms (including the £100 charge for breach) are obscured within tiny text, and the clarity of the signage is insufficient to form any contract with a motorist.

c) PoFA Non-compliance: This failure to clearly (adequately) bring to the attention of the driver the sum of the parking charge for breaching terms also constitutes a failure to comply with PoFA 2012, Schedule 4, Paragraph 9(2)(d). PoFA mandates that the amount due must be clearly communicated. As UKPC has failed to adequately highlight this, no valid contract was formed, and UKPC cannot hold the keeper liable.

Given these facts, no legally binding contract was formed between the driver and UKPC, as the signage fails to communicate the parking terms adequately.

3. Ambiguity of Location – NtK Fails to Specify Exact Location

The NtK is vague and fails to specify the exact location within Uplands Business Park where the vehicle was allegedly parked. This business park is a large industrial estate, with numerous areas, many of which are entirely unsignposted. Without specifying the exact location, it is impossible for UKPC to claim a valid parking contravention occurred at a specific point.

a) PoFA Non-Compliance: Under PoFA 2012, Schedule 4, the relevant land must be specified. The general mention of Uplands Business Park does not meet the requirement for specifying the relevant land, and therefore the NtK is not compliant.

b) Multiple Unsigned Areas: Given that some areas within the estate have no signage whatsoever, it is entirely possible that the vehicle was parked in a location without any displayed terms. This further erodes the credibility of UKPC's claim and their assertion that the driver was bound by any parking terms.

4. UKPC Must Provide Strict Proof of Driver Identity

Since I am appealing as the registered keeper, and no admission has been made regarding the identity of the driver, UKPC is required to provide strict proof that the person they are pursuing is indeed the driver.

UKPC has not provided any evidence that identifies the driver, nor can any assumptions or inferences be made under PoFA 2012. In the absence of such proof, the charge must be cancelled, as UKPC cannot demonstrate that the keeper and driver are the same individual.

5. Consideration Period – Ability to Locate and Understand Signage

In their rejection of my initial appeal, UKPC claimed that their signage was sufficient and that motorists should have the same level of "observance" in a car park as they do on public roads at high speeds. This claim is not only baseless but also demonstrates UKPC’s lack of understanding of the BPA Code of Practice.

a) Time to Find and Read Signs: The BPA Code of Practice clearly requires that motorists be given an appropriate amount of time to find the signage, read it, and understand the terms before any contract can be assumed to have been formed. This is referred to as a consideration period. In this instance, there was no adequate signage visible upon entry, and even where signs are placed, the terms are not legible due to their size and poor placement.

b) Inadequate Signage in Low Light Conditions: The alleged contravention occurred in the early morning, in darkness, which would make it even more difficult for any motorist to read and understand the terms displayed on UKPC’s signs. No consideration period was allowed for the driver to locate, read, and comprehend the small-font, densely worded signage.

Conclusion

In summary, the parking charge must be cancelled due to the following reasons:

• The NtK is non-compliant with PoFA 2012 due to the absence of a period of parking and the failure to specify the exact location of the alleged contravention.
No contract was formed because the signage was inadequate, non-compliant with the BPA Code of Practice, and failed to clearly communicate the parking terms.
• The failure to bring the sum of the charge for breaching terms to the attention of the driver constitutes another PoFA 2012 failure.
• UKPC has provided no evidence identifying the driver, and no assumptions can be made under PoFA about the keeper being the driver.
• The consideration period required to locate and understand the signage was not provided.

I suggest that POPLA upholds this appeal and cancels the PCN.
Title: Re: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
Post by: b789 on October 16, 2024, 12:43:32 pm
The NtK does not specify the "period of parking" as required by PoFA. Also, the signs are the usual UKPC rubbish with the terms hidden in a wall of tiny text and the charge for breaching terms also hidden in there, another breach of PoFA whereby the signs should adequately bring to the attention of the driver, the charge for breaching any terms.

The location in the NtK is ambiguous in that the industrial estate is huge and there is no evidence of where on this estate the alleged breach occurred. As can be seen in GSV, there are entire areas with no signage whatsoever:

(https://i.imgur.com/2loP1Vz.jpeg) (https://maps.app.goo.gl/d8aETJaq1mKAYyKH6)

So, on that basis alone, the PCN is not compliant with ALL the requirement of PoFA to be able to hold the keeper liable.

Also, the signs are prohibitory and therefore no contract could possibly be formed. Without any "period of parking" defined, there is no evidence that the BPA CoP has been followed with regard to consideration period.

(https://i.imgur.com/udsl0ED.jpeg)

All this will go into a POPLA appeal.
Title: Re: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
Post by: Natedog on October 16, 2024, 11:57:15 am
Luckily, I have a job today which takes me to the location of the car park, and I am going to video the site along with taking pictures of the signage. Hopefully this will help support my appeal to POPLA.
I am guessing that my main reason for appeal is the fact they didn’t give any time for the signage to be read? Am I correct?
Title: Re: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
Post by: Natedog on October 16, 2024, 11:44:50 am
Dear Mr……….   ,
Thank you for your recent communication concerning parking charge reference…..
We have carefully considered your appeal based on the information provided and the evidence supporting the parking charge. In this instance having
completed our assessment, we consider the parking charge to have been correctly issued, as the vehicle was parked on site without displaying a valid
permit.
Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 discusses the recovery of unpaid parking charges. It allows parking operators to hold the registered
keeper liable to pay unpaid parking charges if the operator has not been provided the name and a serviceable address of the driver.
Entrance signage advises motorists that terms of parking apply, and that notices within the car park should be checked to identify the full terms and
conditions. These notices are numerous and placed appropriately throughout the car park. It is ultimately the responsibility of the motorist to ensure they
identify the terms of parking, and then decide whether to park their vehicle, or leave the site if they are unable to meet those terms.
We would also contend that when a motorist enters a car park they should be at the same level of observance as when driving on a public road; When
driving on the road, motorists are expected to be aware of signs when travelling at up to 70mph. In a car park, the typical driving speed is on average, much
lower. We therefore contend that it is not unreasonable to expect a motorist to note the signs and to subsequently familiarise themselves with these.
It is UKPC’s position that the signage installed on site is more than sufficient to bring the terms and conditions to the attention of any motorist, both in the
clarity of information contained within it, as well as the number of appropriately placed signs on site, that a legally binding contract is formed between the
motorist and the party offering that contract.
Our appeals process is now concluded, you may now choose one of the following options:
1) Pay the parking charge detailed above at the reduced rate of £60.00 to UK Parking Control Ltd. PLEASE REFER OVERLEAF FOR PAYMENT OPTIONS
AND ADDRESS DETAILS.
2) Make an appeal to the independent adjudicator POPLA (Parking on Private Land Appeals) using the verification code provided above. Please note that if
you wish to appeal to POPLA, you will lose the right to pay the discounted rate of £60.00, and should POPLA reject your appeal you will be required to pay
the full amount of £100.00. If you opt to pay the parking charge you will be unable to appeal with POPLA. Appeals to POPLA must be made within
twenty-eight days from the date of this letter. To appeal with POPLA, please visit www.popla.co.uk. If you are unable to access the internet, you may
appeal by post – this must be done using a POPLA postal form which may be obtained by contacting POPLA by phone (0330 159 6126) or post (PO Box
1270, Warrington, WA4 9RL).
By law we are also required to inform you that Ombudsman Services (www.ombudsman-services.org/) provides an alternative dispute resolution service
that would be competent to deal with your appeal. However, we have not chosen to participate in their alternative dispute resolution service. As such
should you wish to appeal then you must do so to POPLA, as explained above.
3) If you choose to do nothing the parking charge will automatically increase after thirty-five days from the date of this letter to £100.00 and the matter
will be passed to our debt recovery agent, at which point you will be liable to pay an additional charge of £70, in accordance with the terms and conditions
of parking, and further charges will be claimed if court action is taken against you. Any unpaid court judgement may adversely affect your credit rating.
Yours sincerely,
Appeals Department
UK Parking Control Limit
Title: Re: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
Post by: b789 on October 16, 2024, 11:42:30 am
SO, on what basis did they reject your appeal?
Title: Re: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
Post by: Natedog on October 16, 2024, 11:40:35 am
So just as was predicted, my appeal has failed so now I will proceed with an appeal to POPLA. Is there any advice you guys can give me going forward. Thanks.
Title: Re: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
Post by: Natedog on September 17, 2024, 12:57:28 pm
Hahaha! Thanks I will definitely be using that response!
Title: Re: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
Post by: b789 on September 17, 2024, 12:50:56 pm
You can ignore UKPC's request for the driver’s details, as there is indeed no legal obligation for you to identify the driver. Their claim about Schedule 4 of PoFA is misleading because they can only hold the keeper liable if they have fully complied with all the requirements set out in PoFA, which you’ve already noted they have not done (particularly regarding the lack of a defined period of parking in the NtK).

Waiting for their rejection and the POPLA code is the better course of action. If you do want to respond, you can highlight their intellectual malnourishment. Here's a suggested response you could use:

Quote
Subject: Response to Your Request for Driver's Details

Dear UKPC,

Thank you for your letter dated [insert date]. As you are well aware and I would like to reiterate, that as the registered keeper, I am under no legal obligation to provide the details of the driver, and I will not be doing so.

You have referred to Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA); however, you seem to have overlooked or completely failed to comprehend the fact, that to hold the keeper liable, you must meet ALL the conditions laid out in PoFA, which, as I previously pointed out, your Notice to Keeper fails to do. Partial or even substantial compliance is insufficient, and therefore you will not be able to rely on PoFA to pursue the registered keeper.

Please get on with it and either cancel this PCN or provide a POPLA code so that I can escalate it to POPLA, and if necessary, to a court claim, issued either through your own failed "legal department" or through your preferred bulk litigator, DCB Legal, and you already know, when defended robustly, will eventually be discontinued.

Yours faithfully,
Title: Re: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
Post by: DWMB2 on September 17, 2024, 12:39:42 pm
Yep, either leave them to it or remind them you won't be providing these details as you are not obliged to.
Title: Re: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
Post by: Natedog on September 17, 2024, 12:33:47 pm
So the update on my parking ticket appeal… They have written back to me asking me to provide them with the drivers details for them to make a decision on the appeal.
They have given me 7 days to provide this information, otherwise they will just make a decision from the information provided previously.
They have also said this: Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 discusses the recovery of unpaid parking charges. It allows parking operators to hold the registered keeper liable to pay unpaid parking charges if the operator has not been provided the name and a serviceable address of the driver.

So I am guessing I should just ignore this and let them make a decision on my appeal? They also said they will only issue a POPLA code after they have made a decision.
Title: Re: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
Post by: Natedog on August 18, 2024, 06:57:04 am
Thank you so much. I will follow exactly what you said and keep you updated. Thanks again!
Title: Re: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
Post by: b789 on August 16, 2024, 07:34:55 pm
Having had another look at the NtK, there is another breach of the BPA CoP because the photo used in the NtK has been cropped (altered) as the timestamp is not readable.

Joint CoP 7.3(b) & 7.4 (https://www.britishparking.co.uk/write/Documents/AOS/NEW%20Redesigned%20Documents/sectorsingleCodeofPractice.pdf) and BPA CoP 21.5a (https://www.britishparking.co.uk/write/Documents/AOS/NEW%20Redesigned%20Documents/Version91.2.2024Highlight.pdf)
Title: Re: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
Post by: b789 on August 16, 2024, 07:21:33 pm
There are plenty of grounds to dispute this. If you follow the advice you are unlikely to pay a penny to UKPC.

You need to appeal this as the keeper. Do not identify the driver. There is no legal obligation for the keeper to do so to an unregulated private parking company.

Only the unknown driver is liable. There is a flaw in the Notice to Keeper (NtK) that renders it non-compliant with PoFA which means that the known keeper cannot be liable for the charge.

PoFA paragraph 9(2)(a) specifies that the NtK must specify the period of parking to which the notice relates. There is no such "period of parking" specified in that NtK.

In order to be able to hold the known keeper liable for the charge, the NtK must fully comply with all the requirements of PoFA. Partial or even substantial compliance is not sufficient.

UKPC signs are never compliant with PoFA or the BPA Code of Practice (CoP). If it was dark, were any signs conspicuous or easy to see? A photo of any signs in the same lighting conditions (no flash or headlights) would be useful for the POPLA appeal. Also, a clear picture of a sign containing the terms would also be useful for comparing to the "Beavis" sign to show that the charge is not adequately brought to the attention of the driver (PoFA 2(2)).

UKPC are not going to accept any appeal so you need to make a short one to them in order to get the POPLA code. Appeal with the following to UKPC:

Quote
I dispute your 'parking charge', as the keeper of the vehicle. I deny any liability or contractual agreement and I will be making a complaint about your predatory conduct to your client landowner.

As your Notice to Keeper (NtK) does not fully comply with ALL the requirements of PoFA 2012, namely no period of parking is defined in the NtK as required per paragraph 9(2)(a), you are unable to hold the keeper of the vehicle liable for the charge. Partial or even substantial compliance is not sufficient. There will be no admission as to who was driving and no inference or assumptions can be drawn.

Since your PCN is a vague template, I require an explanation of the allegations and your evidence. You must include a close up actual photograph of the sign you contend was at the location on the material date as well as your images of the vehicle.

I suggest you cancel the PCN or issue me with a POPLA code.
Title: Parked in a permit area without displaying a permit
Post by: Natedog on August 16, 2024, 05:38:11 pm
The driver was making an early morning delivery. They parked in the car park as they couldn’t find the business as it was dark. They left the vehicle to try and locate the business they were delivering to. They didn’t notice a camera on entry but a picture of the vehicle was taken at 01.54.34.
Is there any grounds to dispute this?

https://ibb.co/MPdy60n