Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Private parking tickets => Topic started by: Vizard on August 14, 2024, 07:19:09 pm
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Thanks Dave
I cannot see how to edit the post. But there must have been multiple cars doing the same over the past few months, because the express set down is a a trap.
Once you are on the road heading towards it you cannot stop, turn around or escape. You are, I suspect they argue, committing to a contract. But it is one that you do not intend to enter into willingly and from which you cannot escape.
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This is an extract from a posting last year.
The links will not work as it was from pepipoo.
Standsted Airport by Redx June 8th 2023
Must have been 11 years ago, it all changed back in 2012 when POFA 2012 came into being in October 2012.!! So more than a decade ago now
If its land within the airport boundary then Bylaws apply meaning that POFA 2012 schedule 4 cannot apply, so they appear to have misread and misquoted pofa liability, misleading the keeper
Appeal as keeper if the vehicle is private and not hired or leased, using a similar appeal to the Nosy Parker ones at other airports
If it is not relevant land, then to me it's also a breach of the BPA CoP version 8, misrepresentation on Bylaws controlled land, in which case report them to the BPA AOS compliance team online on the BPA website, citing the breach of the CoP, quoting any relevant numbered paragraphs etc, like was recommended by coupon mad in this thread
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discus...tansted-airport
And read this plus the link by Umkomaas too
http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=147067
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discus...anstead-airport
Do not reveal or infer who was driving, it's known only by you, keep it that way and edit your posts above
The driver drove on the day
The keeper is dealing with the postal pcn, as keeper
This post has been edited by Redx: Thu, 8 Jun 2023 - 21:48
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OK noted thank you.
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The RK can ONLY be "ultimately" liable if the charge was issued with full compliance with all the requirements of PoFA. In this case, PoFA cannot apply as the location is land under statutory control.
It matters not what the Ts&Cs say. Liability for the contract agreed by conduct is what counts.
So, unless the RK identified as the driver, they cannot be liable. Your "understanding" is flawed, which is why I intimated at the start of this thread, if you, the RK, have in any way identified as the driver, inadvertently or otherwise, such as using terminology in your initial appeal such as "I parked..." instead of "The driver parked...", then you have identified as the driver.
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I hear you and that was my understanding, but I lost a court case as the RK. I seem to recall the T&Cs stated that the RK was ultimately liable. It was a while ago, though.
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As long as the driver has not been identified, inadvertently or otherwise, then this can be easily won at POPLA on the basis that the PCN has been issued incorrectly.
The location is not relevant land for the purposes of PoFA as it is under statutory control. Only the driver can be liable. The keeper is known. The driver is unknown (unless identified by the known keeper).
The known keeper is under no legal obligation to identify the unknown driver to an unregulated private parking company. No inference or assumptions can be made that the known keeper must also have been the unknown driver and that is supported by persuasive case law.
You have to lead the POPLA assessor down this reasoning. Assume they have no idea about the ability to hold a known keeper liable for the actions of the unknown driver unless all the requirements of PoFA have been complied with. Point out that PoFA cannot apply at the location because it is an airport covered by bylaws which means that it is under statutory control.
Because of all that, only the unknown driver can be liable for the charge and the burden of proof is on the operator to show that the person they are pursuing is the driver. They can't.
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The driver has not been identified, however they can (and do) pursue the RK.
But thank you I will take a look.
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If the driver has been identified, then you have, figuratively speaking, shot both feet off. You only had to appeal as the keeper. There is no obligation for the keeper to identify the driver to an unregulated private parking company.
No “fine” has been issued. It is simply a speculative invoice from an unregulated private parking company for an alleged breach of contract by the driver. Had you appealed as the keeper and not identified the driver, if the operator had not cancelled the PCN then POPLA certainly would have.
As the driver has been identified, that ship has, unfortunately, sailed.
POPLA will only consider points of law and the BPA or the Joint BPA/IPC Code of Practice (CoP). They do not take mitigation into account.
I suggest you go through the CoP and find points to use in your POPLA appeal.
Joint BPA/IPC Code of Practice (https://www.britishparking.co.uk/write/Documents/AOS/NEW%20Redesigned%20Documents/sectorsingleCodeofPracticeVersion1260624.pdf)
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We paid to park in the green car park, but Mrs Vizard directed me the wrong turn-off from the roundabout and we headed towards drop-off. Once on that road it was one way, the earlier wider part had a coach on it. So we could not turn round and had to drive past drop off to the exit barrier.
At the barrier there was no response from the help button. We had no means of payment in the car, because we didn't expect to pay for anything until we were in the terminal. I also felt that paying would signal agreement that we were prepared to pay. After five minutes of trying the help button I could see no airport staff to speak to, so I tailgated another car out of the adjacent barrier.
A fine has been issued. I appealed stating the above and received a response completely ignoring what I has said. It said that by entering the drop-off lane we'd accepted the T&Cs and must pay. They also said that the fact I could exit via a barrier means the call button was working on the adjacent exit.... err okay.
I can evidence that we had paid in advance for the green car park. Their CCTV will show that we didn't stop or use the drop-off.
I cannot appeal again, it is POPLA or wait for litigation.
Is POPLA worth a shot? A quick Google suggests they tend to favour the parking companies.