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Live cases legal advice => Private parking tickets => Topic started by: Hustler6969 on August 13, 2024, 01:37:48 am

Title: Re: Court Claim - Euro Car Parks Euro Garage Heathrow South Notice from March '22
Post by: Hustler6969 on May 13, 2025, 12:24:27 pm
Sure, here is a redacted copy (https://imgur.com/a/uZvoKdU) (https://emoji.tapatalk-cdn.com/emoji106.png)
Title: Re: Court Claim - Euro Car Parks Euro Garage Heathrow South Notice from March '22
Post by: DWMB2 on May 13, 2025, 11:03:48 am
Excellent!

Can you please share a copy of the Notice of discontinuation?

Our friendly neighbours over on the MSE forum are collecting examples of this practice from DCB Legal
Title: Re: Court Claim - Euro Car Parks Euro Garage Heathrow South Notice from March '22
Post by: Hustler6969 on May 13, 2025, 10:47:35 am
We have a result!

Just had this email through - thanks b789 for all your help :)

"Dear X,
 
We act for the Claimant in the above matter. 
 
Our client has instructed us to discontinue Court proceedings and close our file. Therefore, please find enclosed the Claimant’s N279 Notice of Discontinuance for your records. 
 
The attached has also been filed with the Court.
 
We will now proceed to close our file accordingly.

Kind Regards,
 
X
Trainee CILEX Paralegal
DCB Legal Ltd
"
Title: Re: Court Claim - Euro Car Parks Euro Garage Heathrow South Notice from March '22
Post by: b789 on May 12, 2025, 11:54:00 pm
Only other slight bit of info is that the claimant solicitor seems to have been calling my relative on and off on the phone in the last few weeks. Of course as per advice here previously he hasn't been picking up their calls.

Always the precursor to a discontinuation.
Title: Re: Court Claim - Euro Car Parks Euro Garage Heathrow South Notice from March '22
Post by: Hustler6969 on May 12, 2025, 11:33:37 pm
Thanks b789, I'll give a nudge here early on Wednesday if no joy by then.

Have also put in a formal complaint re: no response to the last letter.

Only other slight bit of info is that the claimant solicitor seems to have been calling my relative on and off on the phone in the last few weeks. Of course as per advice here previously he hasn't been picking up their calls.
Title: Re: Court Claim - Euro Car Parks Euro Garage Heathrow South Notice from March '22
Post by: b789 on May 12, 2025, 03:51:34 pm
Remind me Wednesday to put something together if you've not heard anything back by then.

You should also make a formal complaint to HMCTS as the lack of any responses to what is clearly an urgent and important matter is required.

https://hmcts-complaint-form-eng.form.service.justice.gov.uk
Title: Re: Court Claim - Euro Car Parks Euro Garage Heathrow South Notice from March '22
Post by: Hustler6969 on May 12, 2025, 02:44:02 pm
So above conversation was with the number ending in 5577.

Number 02089728709 seems to be engaged/busy and immediately dropping when called (no answering phone/automated/waiting line). Tried couple of times.

Number 02083334370 rings for about 5 minutes, no one picks up, then hangs up by itself.

Can keep trying them though every now and then till 5pm.


Title: Re: Court Claim - Euro Car Parks Euro Garage Heathrow South Notice from March '22
Post by: DWMB2 on May 12, 2025, 02:32:10 pm
Have you tried the local number listed here: https://www.find-court-tribunal.service.gov.uk/courts/kingston-upon-thames-county-court-and-family-court (https://www.find-court-tribunal.service.gov.uk/courts/kingston-upon-thames-county-court-and-family-court)

Or here: https://www.thelawpages.com/magistrates-county-crown-court/Kingston-upon-Thames-County-Court-630.html (https://www.thelawpages.com/magistrates-county-crown-court/Kingston-upon-Thames-County-Court-630.html)
Title: Re: Court Claim - Euro Car Parks Euro Garage Heathrow South Notice from March '22
Post by: Hustler6969 on May 12, 2025, 02:20:45 pm
Just tried ringing the central phone line (no direct number for the court).

No meaningful information gleaned really, he said that the only thing he can see is that the case is still showing live.

Nothing he could see as to if the claimant had filed a WS so far, or that my letter emailed to the court on 25/04/25 had been 'filed' with the court. Also, nothing to show that a hearing date had been allocated (ofc the last letter from court says something like 'first available date after 24/06/25'). His last update for the case on the system seems to be my own call that I made to them on 24/4/25!..

He then of course also suggested that any of the above things may have happened, but there's no way for him to tell for certain, as the court's paperwork backlog takes a while to get updated on the system. He suggested emailing the court directly for updates, which I guess will also take forever to hear back, if at all..

Please advise? Do we put in the WS anyway, and what goes in it?

Title: Re: Court Claim - Euro Car Parks Euro Garage Heathrow South Notice from March '22
Post by: b789 on May 12, 2025, 01:13:51 pm
It will not matter if the defendants WS is a day or so late. Right now, call the court and verify whether the case has been discontinued and any hearing date vacated.

You mentioned in an earlier post that a hearing date had not yet been allocated. Also, please confirm that the claimant has not yet submitted their WS. They will be under the same deadline as the defendant, even if the court fecked up by ordering the claimant to submit further PoC without giving the defendant an opportunity to amend their defence.

If a WS still needs to be submitted, it will be based on the content of the letter that was submitted to the court as the further PoC did not comply with the flawed order that was made.

Get on the phone to the court and check on the status of the case.
Title: Re: Court Claim - Euro Car Parks Euro Garage Heathrow South Notice from March '22
Post by: Hustler6969 on May 12, 2025, 12:23:44 pm
It seems that by 4pm on 13/05/25 both parties need to submit WS.

Hi all,

As per this previous post, I think I need to put in a WS by CoP tomorrow (13/05/25).

Although b789 had previously advised me to send the court a letter as per his later post, I did so on 25/4/25 with the claimant solicitor copied in, but haven heard back from court or them regarding it.

I've just noticed (also having returned from being away) that it says on b789's signature that he/she is away for a couple of weeks from 07/05 - could anyone else please advise what should go in the WS now?

Would be much appreciated and many thanks in advance.
Title: Re: Court Claim - Euro Car Parks Euro Garage Heathrow South Notice from March '22
Post by: Hustler6969 on April 29, 2025, 01:24:08 pm
I will ask them to not pick up calls from that number.

And apologies for the terminology, getting my own self confused here as didn't know anything of the nearby names you mention below. Comms by email from the solicitor have been from 'DCB Legal', and on checking with my relative (without any prompting) he says they definitely mentioned 'DCB Legal' on the phone, so probably just my bad there.
Title: Re: Court Claim - Euro Car Parks Euro Garage Heathrow South Notice from March '22
Post by: b789 on April 29, 2025, 11:54:01 am
Just tell the person to block that number.

You need to be very clear when you are talking about Direct Collection Bailiffs (DCB). there is DCBL which is nothing but a powerless debt recovery company who have no power to do anything except try and scare the low hanging-fruit on the gullible tree into making payments out of ignorance and fear. They must be blocked and completely ignored.

Then there is their sister company of bulk litigators, DCB Legal. Again, no one has to talk with them by phone and, as already pointed out above, any communication with them should be by email only.

So, please don't use ambiguous or misleading terms like DCBL Legal as there is no such company. So, were you referring to DCBL or DCB Legal???
Title: Re: Court Claim - Euro Car Parks Euro Garage Heathrow South Notice from March '22
Post by: DWMB2 on April 29, 2025, 11:20:05 am
Do not answer their calls and do not phone them. All correspondence should be in writing only.
Title: Re: Court Claim - Euro Car Parks Euro Garage Heathrow South Notice from March '22
Post by: Hustler6969 on April 29, 2025, 11:14:25 am
Hello again,

So as discussed, email with letter sent on 25/04 (this week) to court and the solicitor from DCBL Legal.

I got a call from my relative this morning that a lady (so potentially the named solicitor?) from 'DCBL or something' had rang him this morning, saying they wanted to speak to him on an important legal matter, and for him to answer some security questions. He claimed it wasn't convenient as he was driving at the time (which he was) so they asked him to call them back later when convenient. I asked him to send me the phone number he got a call from, it was +441606539160 - looking it up online some people claim its a scam, others do say it was DCBL Legal.

Question then - does he call back (bearing in mind there'll also be a language barrier on any legal detail) - and if so, how much does he say - and/or would not engaging with DCBL Legal be looked at unfavourably by court? For now I've asked him if they ring again to not get into anything and just ask them to just send an email with any updates/questions they have. I suppose she might've also been trying to gauge his eloquence/language barrier/litigation skills from the call?

Guidance would be appreciated.
Title: Re: Court Claim - Euro Car Parks Euro Garage Heathrow South Notice from March '22
Post by: Hustler6969 on April 25, 2025, 04:15:04 pm
Okay will send to both the court and the person from DCB Legal that sent me the PoCs in the first place. Thanks.
Title: Re: Court Claim - Euro Car Parks Euro Garage Heathrow South Notice from March '22
Post by: b789 on April 25, 2025, 10:42:01 am
Yes. Send it as a PDF attachment by email and you UST include a copy of everything that you send to the court, to the claimant (or their solicitor).

Address the email to BOTH the court and the claimant and CC in yourself. Only ONE email is needed, not a separate one to each party!
Title: Re: Court Claim - Euro Car Parks Euro Garage Heathrow South Notice from March '22
Post by: Hustler6969 on April 25, 2025, 09:54:32 am
Thanks b789 - I will try to fully share everything from court from this point on, it was just my ignorance..

I suppose I might be also able to infer in the letter that while DCB Legal had told me what PoC they were filing, the recent court paper was my first indication that it had been accepted by court (didn't know if you wanted to mention anything about that in there?)

In any case, do I attach what you've provided as a pdf letter sent in an email to 'enquiries.kingston.countycourt@justice.gov.uk' ? Do I need to copy in DCB Legal or anything like that?

I'll be on it as soon as I hear your reply, thanks once again.
Title: Re: Court Claim - Euro Car Parks Euro Garage Heathrow South Notice from March '22
Post by: b789 on April 25, 2025, 09:14:58 am
That is stupidly unfair order where the judge has given the claimant a free lifeline by allowing them to submit further PoC without giving the defendant an opportunity to amend their defence accordingly. Why on earth did you wait so long to let us know abut this? You are now on the back foot because of your failure to keep us up to date with EVERYTHING to so with the case!!!

The following should have been sent to the court the day after you received the amended PoC... not three whole months later!!!!

Quote
The Court Manager
County Court at Kingston-upon-Thames
St James Road
Kingston upon Thames
Surrey KT1 2AD

Re: [Claim Number] – [Defendant’s Full Name]

Date: [Insert today's date]

Dear Sir/Madam,

I write as the Defendant in the above claim and as a litigant in person.

When I submitted my Defence, I attached a draft order requesting that the Claimant be ordered to provide further and better Particulars of Claim, listing in detail the information I needed in order to understand the case and plead a proper Defence. The court did not refer to or adopt that draft. Instead, the order dated 31 December 2024 simply directed the Claimant to file "a CPR compliant particulars of claim" by 14 January 2025.

This created procedural uncertainty and denied me the clarity that my draft order was intended to provide. The Claimant has now filed amended Particulars of Claim. However, the new version still does not comply with CPR 16.4, nor does it provide the information which the court clearly intended to be disclosed.

The amended Particulars of Claim fail to:

• Attach a copy of the contract relied upon
• Set out the actual contractual clauses said to have been breached
• Provide a copy of the parking charge notice
• State how or when the PCN was served
• Provide a full postal address for the alleged location
• State clearly whether the Defendant is pursued as the driver or the keeper (instead continuing to plead both in the alternative)
• Provide any explanation or contractual basis for the “contractual costs” claimed
• Include any valid statutory interest calculation or any indication of when the alleged debt arose

Worse still, the amended Particulars of Claim do not even state the date on which the alleged contravention occurred. Paragraph 7 refers to an entry time of 08:32 and exit time of 09:45, but no date is given. Without a date of contravention, the Particulars of Claim are defective and incomplete. There is no way for me to know on what date the alleged breach is said to have occurred or when any cause of action accrued.

Despite this, the Claimant claims £33.36 in statutory interest under section 69 of the County Courts Act 1984, again without specifying when the interest began, what daily rate was used, or how the figure was calculated. This is a clear breach of the court’s order at paragraph 2(l), which expressly required the Claimant to “set out a precise calculation of the claim for statutory interest up to the date of issue to include the date interest started running”.

The original Defence I submitted was necessarily brief, because the Claimant’s original statement of case was vague, and I could not meaningfully respond to a case that had not been properly pleaded. It is fundamentally unjust for the Claimant to be allowed to amend their claim without cost, and yet for me to be denied the opportunity to amend my Defence unless I pay a court fee.

Accordingly, I respectfully request that the court:

1. Either grant me permission to file and serve an amended Defence within 14 days of notification, without the need for a formal application or court fee;

OR

2. Strike out the claim in its entirety due to the Claimant’s continued failure to file CPR 16.4-compliant Particulars of Claim and for non-compliance with the court’s order dated 31 December 2024.

I trust the court will recognise the prejudice caused by the Claimant’s conduct and ensure that a litigant in person is not subjected to further unfair procedural disadvantage.

Yours faithfully,

[Your Full Name]
[Your Address]
[Your Email if applicable]
Title: Re: Court Claim - Euro Car Parks Euro Garage Heathrow South Notice from March '22
Post by: Hustler6969 on April 24, 2025, 10:33:16 pm
Court order asking claimant for PoC now attached here (https://imgur.com/a/WZMfuco).

It was just asking Claimant for the PoC, no direction to defendant.
Title: Re: Court Claim - Euro Car Parks Euro Garage Heathrow South Notice from March '22
Post by: b789 on April 24, 2025, 07:56:12 pm
It's the court order for the claimant to file further PoC that we need to see!!! Without seeing that, we cannot determine whether they have fully complied with the order.

Does the order also say that the defendant dan then file an amended defence?
Title: Re: Court Claim - Euro Car Parks Euro Garage Heathrow South Notice from March '22
Post by: Hustler6969 on April 24, 2025, 05:56:59 pm
Apologies if I misread when to communicate here (I just thought I'd rather hassle yourselves only when there was a next step to take for us) - will be more regular from now.

As mentioned in above post, court letter received a few months back (i.e. dated 07/01/25) was for CLAIMANT to file particulars of the claim by 4pm 14/01/25. I received an email from DCB Legal on 13/01/25 with their particulars of claim (link in post above), with a note to say that they have filed it with the court.

Next (recent) comms from court are as in above post.
Title: Re: Court Claim - Euro Car Parks Euro Garage Heathrow South Notice from March '22
Post by: b789 on April 24, 2025, 02:52:19 pm
MCOL is only for use before the claim is allocated to your local court, so nothing in there will update after allocation.

Why wait so long to update us on this? At what point was the defendant ordered to submit further PoC? You have not shown us any orders from the court.

how on earth do you expect to receive advice if you don't keep us updated with everything about this?
Title: Re: Court Claim - Euro Car Parks Euro Garage Heathrow South Notice from March '22
Post by: Hustler6969 on April 24, 2025, 02:32:30 pm
Hi all,

Just an update on this and request for help again.

So the comms from the court (since the last post) dated 07/01/25 were for the Claimant to file particulars of the claim by 4pm 14/01/25.

I received an email from DCB Legal on 13/01/25 with these particulars of claim (https://imgur.com/a/usamTfj), with a note to say 'we confirm it has been filed with the Court'. I had not seen any update re: this on the MCOL website that it had indeed been filed with the court in the days and weeks since, and even now, the last transaction on it is that the claim was transferred to the country court on 13/12/2024. I had hoped it was just a tactic by them and the claim would therefore time out.

Now the defendant has received the court letter here (https://imgur.com/a/F9rAtNz), dated 15/04/25 (although date signature at letter end is 19/3/25), & received in post on 18/04/25. It seems that by 4pm on 13/05/25 both parties need to submit WS.

So my questions please are as follows:

1) Does the defendant (i.e. me on their behalf) HAVE to submit WS if there is nothing additional to add beyond whats previously been submitted?

2) If so, please would you be kind of enough of what it should say and what format and medium to communicate in? By calling some generic helpline, I was given 'enquiries.kingston.countycourt@justice.gov.uk' as the best email to send in witness statements. Is this correct? (I only ask to be doubly sure as lady advising was from a central line and didn't seem to be overly sure on specifics of the process.)

3) What would the date for the claimant paying the hearing fees be i.e. by when might we get certainty wether this will progress to a hearing or not? Will there be a letter sent out to confirm its been struck out if the claimant dosen't pay up?

4) The court letter claimed that the hearing would take place on the first available date after 24th June 2025. I take it that isn't the date of the hearing and a date will only be set once that date has passed? How much notice of the hearing date might one potentially get when it gets set? In the DQ I had already indicated that defendant didn't have availability between the date of 24/06/25 & 04/07/25, so if it falls within those dates, what scope is there to reschedule?

5) As it was the easter BH long weekend that this letter arrived on during which I was busy and only now just catching up on things - have I dropped the ball a bit and should have asked for this to be set aside 7 days from the date of service of the letter? If so, and anything can/should be done urgently (today being the 7th day) please do let me know!!

Many thanks as always.
Title: Re: Court Claim - Euro Car Parks Euro Garage Heathrow South Notice from March '22
Post by: b789 on September 25, 2024, 01:26:25 am
So they’re giving 14 days. My bad. Just make sure you submit it by the deadline. There’s nothing to be gained by delaying it, so just get on with it.
Title: Re: Court Claim - Euro Car Parks Euro Garage Heathrow South Notice from March '22
Post by: Hustler6969 on September 24, 2024, 10:18:25 pm
Thank you very much for the info, I'll fill in the DQ accordingly.

Just for clarification, I think you mentioned I had 5 days for service + 28 days from the date of issue of the DQ (23/09) which I had worked out to be around the 25th Oct. However the copy that's arrived in the post today seems to say "you must by 10th Oct 2024 complete..". Which one is correct?

Thanks.
Title: Re: Court Claim - Euro Car Parks Euro Garage Heathrow South Notice from March '22
Post by: b789 on September 24, 2024, 02:06:50 am
A DQ is sent to the defendant and you allow 5 days for service and then 28 days to return it. As you have downloaded one, you have plenty of time to complete it.

As for the mediation phone call, the only requirement it to “attend” the call. It is a waste of time in these kind of cases but it has to be done. Obviously, it is the defendant that has to “attend” the call but if you are interpreting for him, then that shouldn’t be a problem. All you have to do is say you offer £0 and it will be over in a few minutes.

Mediation is not a trial and there are no lawyers or judges involved. Whatever the outcome of mediation, it has no bearing on any subsequent hearing if there is no agreement.

As for the DQ, put whatever contact details and address as you think best for receiving any correspondence about the claim. However, it must all be in your relatives name.

You definitely do NOT want a determination without a hearing (on the papers). So, tick “NO” and just state:

Quote
I am not content for the case to be heard 'on the papers' because that seems to disproportionately give an advantage to a legally represented party. I wish to question the Claimant about their evidence at a hearing in person and to expose omissions and any misleading or incorrect evidence or assertions.

As for venue, you put the court local to you or your relative. In the small-claims track, if the claimant is a business and the defendant is not, the it will always be at the defendants local court, no matter what the claimant puts in that box.

The defendant will also be the only witness. That question is only for determining what size room they’d need for the hearing. In the vast majority of cases, the hearing is held in the judges chambers, which is simply a small office where the judge works.

Here is a short video that explains what actually happens on the day:

https://youtu.be/n93eoaxhzpU

I’m not 100% sure about what type of interpreter. See what others think.  It may just mean what language is being interpreted. Put whatever contact details you think they’re asking. It is only a DQ which is for admin purposes more than anything.

Even if you were not interpreting, you are allowed to be his lay representative and do the talking. They only proviso is that the defendant must also be present.

Remember to block off any dates you or the defendant won’t be available in the next 6 months, such as going on holiday. Pad any dates with a few extra days either side.

Obviously, everything is always signed in the defendants name.

There is still only about a 1% chance this will ever reach a hearing. The most likely outcome is still going to that they discontinue just before they have to pay the hearing fee.

It is always very late in the process. However, if they do submit a WS, the defendant will also have submit one.

At some point it will be referred to the court local to the defendant and there will be a court order giving the date and a deadline for submitting witness statements (WS). Normally it is two weeks before the hearing date but could be longer depending on the local courts schedule.

Once the case has been assigned to your local courts schedule, MCOL has no further part in the process. All dealings will be through the local court.

Their WS is always a template and is easily handled. A bridge to cross if or when it is reached. The claimant will have the same deadline to submit their WS as the defendant. The Defendants WS should ideally be submitted at the last minute, hopefully after having received a copy of the claimants beforehand.
Title: Re: Court Claim - Euro Car Parks Euro Garage Heathrow South Notice from March '22
Post by: Hustler6969 on September 23, 2024, 10:56:15 pm
Gents,

So received a letter from DCB Legal around 10th Sept notifying their intention to still proceed & that a DQ would be issued (with their copy of DQ enclosed). It also had an offer to pay up within 7 days etc. which I ignored.

Logged into MCOL today, and dated today (23/09) notification says DQ sent & filed by claimant.

My first of many questions, how long do I have now to register the completed DQ by?

Secondly, as its getting into tel. mediation and potential physical/video/phone hearing territory, I could do with some advice please on how to manage and what details/info to provide on the DQ form.

So far I've had the my relative (the claimant)'s details on the MCOL account (i.e. it was automatically using his gateway ID/email address anyway), I only used my email address to send the defence and draft order. For context, I live about 70 miles from him, so in theory can travel closer to him eventually if there is a physical hearing, but otherwise would be happy to handle everything else by phone/video call for him (if that is appropriate?) as I perhaps know the case better than him and he is happy for me to do so. He would need support anyhow as English isn't his first language so I would have to 'interpret' for any phone calls/physical attendances anyway.

So my next few questions are as follows (from the DQ template linked in the previous post):
- In the mediation contact details (section B) - shall I put my relative's name, address, then my phone number and email (or email would you think still his as per MCOL account?)
- Section D. Suitability for determination without a hearing - do i tick yes or no? Interestingly in their version supplied with the 10/09 email, it skips section D & E from the linked-template version and D on theirs is instead F from the linked template version i.e. regarding what hearing venue preferred (where they've put 'Claimants Home Court').
- E. About the mediation appointment
E1 Which phone number would you prefer the Small Claims Mediation Service to call you on for your mediation appointment? - this got me thinking if I should just be putting his phone number and email under section B and only putting my phone number here?
E3 Will you be using an interpreter for your mediation appointment? If Yes, specify the type of interpreter. How do I answer this? I'd rather me be the interpreter so should I put something like 'personal interpreter' or something? Also, does it therefore help keep me involved?
- F. About the hearing
F1 - Hearing venue - should I also put down 'Claimant's Home Court' or be anymore specific? Is there anyway to indicate that we'd much rather prefer phone/video?
F3 (their D3) - Just for information, they've indicated they'll be using 1 witness.
F5 Will you be using an interpreter at the hearing either for yourself or for a witness? If Yes, specify the type of interpreter. Similar to one of the previous questions, how do I answer this? I'd rather me be the interpreter so should I put something like 'personal interpreter' or something? Also, does it help keep me involved?
Finally, I assumed signed in his name?

Sorry for the many questions, just never handled a DQ before, and many thanks as always.
Title: Re: Court Claim - Euro Car Parks Euro Garage Heathrow South Notice from March '22
Post by: b789 on September 05, 2024, 12:32:36 am
If it says the defence has been received, that is all you need. No problem.

What happens next is that the CNBC will send a copy of your defence to the claimant and they have 28 days to respond to it. What you don’t know is when the CNBC send/sent your defence to them.

If the claimant does not respond to the defence within 28 days, the claim is stayed and if they want to get the stay lifted, they will have to pay for an application for hat and explain to a judge why they have not progressed the claim with no guarantee that the court will agree to it and the claim will then be struck out.

Just keep checking your MCOL history once a week for any updates.
Title: Re: Court Claim - Euro Car Parks Euro Garage Heathrow South Notice from March '22
Post by: Hustler6969 on September 04, 2024, 08:14:38 pm
Just as an aside, I emailed them the defence and draft order on 27/08, and after checking a couple of times on MCOL online just seen an update today saying "Your defence was received on 04/09/2024". I think the time limit for defence was 02/09 but I did email it across on 27/08 so that won't be a problem, will it?
Title: Re: Court Claim - Euro Car Parks Euro Garage Heathrow South Notice from March '22
Post by: b789 on August 27, 2024, 09:17:14 pm
The Claimant will be sent a copy of the defence and will need to respond to it. They may discontinue or they may respond and say they intend to continue. If so, you will receive a letter confirming that. Normally, if they are continuing they will also include a copy of their N180 DQ. You simply file it.

You can check the MCOL every few days or once a week to see when the CNBC updated the history. You should see when the AoS was submitted and also when your defence was submitted.

When it says they have sent you the DQ, simply download one from here:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/66a8b019ce1fd0da7b592f43/N180_0724.pdf

Fill it in online and send as a PDF file attached to an email to dq.cnbc@justice.gov.uk and also to the claimant solicitor and CC yourself in the same, single email.

After the DQ stage, if the claimant still intends to continue, the court will assign the case to your local court and eventually you will be assigned a court date with instructions on what date you must submit your Witness Statement, normally 14 days before the hearing date.

There is now a compulsory mediation phone call. It is a 5 minute affair and you simply offer £0 and it is over. It is not a trial and no legally trained person is involved. It has no bearing on any hearing.

However, the most likely outcome of all this is that the claimant will be ordered by the judge to submit further particulars of claim according to the draft order and they will either discontinue at that stage or else file to fully comply with the order and the claim will be struck out.

One step at a time.
Title: Re: Court Claim - Euro Car Parks Euro Garage Heathrow South Notice from March '22
Post by: Hustler6969 on August 27, 2024, 08:54:27 pm
Hi again, so I've done the AoS two weeks ago and just submitted the defence and draft order by email and received an auto response of "Please expect a response to your enquiry in 10 days". Could you please tell me what I should next expect in terms of steps and timescales (mandated response times for claimant side etc.)? Should I be checking so often on the MCOL wesbite? Thanks.
Title: Re: Court Claim - Euro Car Parks Euro Garage Heathrow South Notice from March '22
Post by: b789 on August 14, 2024, 08:25:22 am
The government gateway must be in the persons name. If they are ok giving you access to their password that’s between you and them. You can provide your mobile number as you will need access to the code for the two part authentication when logging in. If it’s a close family member then it shouldn’t be a problem.

If you can’t get into the MCOL, you will have to submit the AoS as a PDF in an email attachment. However, you ideally want access to MCOL, in order to track the history of the claim and that all submissions have been received and logged.

Don’t worry about the missing LoC. It is not going to affect anything. If it was not received, that is something that could be brought up if this ever actually went as far as a hearing.
Title: Re: Court Claim - Euro Car Parks Euro Garage Heathrow South Notice from March '22
Post by: Hustler6969 on August 14, 2024, 04:56:58 am
Thanks all for your input so far.

For the purposes of AoS, could I set up an MCOL/Gov Gateway account with the defendant's personal details and contact details for myself so I receive the comms to manage? Or any issues with that? Of course everything is being done with defendant in the know.

And yes, I had asked the 'defendant' for NtK and either not recieved or if received, no memory of it / no copy kept / no longer exists. Also, no 'letter before claim' (this is more likely to be accurate memory as recent) - the last letters on the matter were from late March/April from DCBL titled 'Final Notice of Debt Recovery' - pictures in the original post.
Title: Re: Court Claim - Euro Car Parks Euro Garage Heathrow South Notice from March '22
Post by: b789 on August 13, 2024, 03:21:48 pm
I doubt that any judge would see a lack of response to an LoC as "unreasonable". The LoC is not even entered into evidence unless at WS stage and has no bearing on the short defence and the failure of the claimant to fully particularise the claim.

This is a very recent court order to a claimant for failing to properly particularise their claim and is under consideration for claims that are questionable as to their PoFA applicability, such as in this case:

Quote
UPON reading the Particulars of Claim

ORDER

1. The Claimant must by 4pm within 7 days of the date of this order file and serve a Particulars of Claim, supported by a statement of truth, identifying;

a) Whether the claim is brought under Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012

If so,

b) By reference to the definition of "relevant obligation" in paragraph 2 of Schedule 4  to the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, whether it is alleged that the claim is based on relevant obligation;

i) "arising under the terms of a relevant contract" or

ii) "arising, in any circumstances where there is no relevant contract , as a result of a trespass or other tort committed by parking the vehicle on the relevant land"

c) If a contract is alleged, what was the consideration provided by the Claimant and what was the breach of contract

d) If no contract is alleged, what was the "trespass or other tort committed by parking the vehicle on the relevant land".

If the claim is not brought under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012,

e) The cause of action and how it arose.

f) If the cause of action is breach of contract, the parties to the contract, the consideration provided by the Claimant and the alleged breach of contract.

2) If the Claimant fails to comply with the above direction, the claim shall be struck out automatically and without further order.

3) If the Claimant complies with this Order the Defendant may by 4pm within 14 days of the Claimant complying send to the court and the Claimant's solicitors a Defence in substitution for the existing Defence if so advised.

4) At the expiry of the time limit at 3), the file will be referred back to any District Judge for further case management.

I can't wait to the response to that order.
Title: Re: Court Claim - Euro Car Parks Euro Garage Heathrow South Notice from March '22
Post by: The Rookie on August 13, 2024, 02:33:14 pm
To add, if the keeper can say they weren't actually driving that will be worth adding, otherwise as is is the way to go. (DON'T tells us unless they weren't).

Really the Letter Before Claim should have been replied to, you/they have now forced them to take legal action which a judge may see as unreasonable.
Title: Re: Court Claim - Euro Car Parks Euro Garage Heathrow South Notice from March '22
Post by: b789 on August 13, 2024, 01:36:17 pm
The claim is against the keeper, accusing him/her of being the driver with no evidence that the keeper was in fact the driver. In the alternate, they are attempting to sue the keeper under PoFA which is simply not possible as the location is not relevant land.

No need to try and overcomplicate it.

This is a straight forward candidate for the short defence and draft order.

Use the following and change the necessary details such as claimant, defendant, claim number and then simply type your name as the signature and date. The draft order does not require any editing. They should both be sent as a pdf attachment to an email with the claim number in the "subject" of the email and simply say in the email: "Please find attached my defence and draft order for claim No.: XXXXXXX". You send it to claimresponses.cnbc@justice.gov.uk and also CC in yourself. You must get an auto-response email shortly after. Make sure you receive the auto-response:

Short defence (https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/e3ywca2o8vkrqxpy6bddn/Short-defence.pdf?rlkey=x1fukkeyi1w58l6x2axezmwid&dl=0)

Draft order for the short defence (https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/z8zcqfdncdoajgj4ag6a4/short-defence-orderP1.pages.pdf?rlkey=at98xmfwj0ehi3w9d0ia15ogp&dl=0)

Only the defendants name, the claimants name and the claim reference number need to be edited. The statement of truth can be signed electronically by simply typing your name. Nothing else needs to be added or edited.
Title: Re: Court Claim - Euro Car Parks Euro Garage Heathrow South Notice from March '22
Post by: H C Andersen on August 13, 2024, 09:46:38 am
I think it's the other way round.

PoC:
A claim against the driver or in the alternative the keeper.

So let the keeper's thinking follow this path:

The driver
There has been no communications between the keeper and claimant, therefore what evidence do they have that the named respondent was the driver?

None. 

The keeper
The law makes provision for a claimant to hold the keeper liable in lieu of the driver but this is conditional upon the claimant meeting mandatory criteria. Have they?

Is the land 'relevant land'. Apparently not.
Was the Notice to Keeper given in the mandated form? No idea. OP, your plan to ignore everything except a claim was wrong and if called upon to give advice again this needs to change. When someone is served with a Letter of Claim, a mandatory procedural step under court regulations and nothing to do with parking, then the recipient should submit a Subject Access Request(again, nothing to do with parking but falls under data protection legislation) to the creditor to get copies of all prior notices/letters etc. At present you don't have these so how could anyone assess whether they're compliant?

Title: Re: Court Claim - Euro Car Parks Euro Garage Heathrow South Notice from March '22
Post by: b789 on August 13, 2024, 09:04:21 am
You mentioned that you “asked for the original letters”. Who did you ask? We don’t need to see or know about any of the useless debt collector letters. Ideally, the first NtK is what would be useful.

However, even without it, the PoC are deficient as they are saying that, in the alternative, they are suing the keeper. Unless the keeper has identified as the driver, they cannot do so. There is no legal obligation or requirement for the keeper to identify the driver and the claimant cannot infer or presume that the keeper was also the driver.
Title: Re: Court Claim - Euro Car Parks Euro Garage Heathrow South Notice from March '22
Post by: Hustler6969 on August 13, 2024, 08:58:15 am
Thanks gents.

Driver has never been identified, there have never been any comms from the recipient's side.

As per your advice, I will assist the keeper in managing this in their name.

The recipient does not remember an NtK being received, but can't be too sure (if anything it has long been discarded) - but as everything since has been addressed to him, I assume would have also been addressed to him.

I'll follow the pdf guide for AoS by the required date and keep yourselves posted if I have any questions.

Thanks for now!
Title: Re: Court Claim - Euro Car Parks Euro Garage Heathrow South Notice from March '22
Post by: b789 on August 13, 2024, 08:33:31 am
Upon review of the location, that garage is on land under statutory control. As such, there is no keeper liability. A simple appeal, as the keeper, at the time would have seen this cancelled.

Quote
I am the registered keeper. ECP cannot hold a registered keeper liable for any alleged contravention on land that is under statutory control. As a matter of fact and law, ECP will be well aware that they cannot use the PoFA provisions because Heathrow Airport is not 'relevant land'.

If Heathrow Airport wanted to hold owners or keepers liable under Airport Byelaws, that would be within the landowner's gift and another matter entirely. However, not only is that not pleaded, it is also not legally possible because ECP is not the Airport owner and your 'parking charge' is not and never attempts to be a penalty. It is created for ECP's own profit (as opposed to a byelaws penalty that goes to the public purse) and ECP has relied on contract law allegations of breach against the driver only.

The registered keeper cannot be presumed or inferred to have been the driver, nor pursued under some twisted interpretation of the law of agency. Your NTK can only hold the driver liable. ECP have no hope at POPLA, so you are urged to save us both a complete waste of time and cancel the PCN.

Unfortunately, it is now too late for that. However, if the driver has not been identified, it is an extra arrow in the quiver for the claim.

Heathrow Airport Bylaws (https://www.heathrow.com/content/dam/heathrow/web/common/documents/contact-us/HAL-Byelaws-2014.pdf)


(https://i.imgur.com/9AEdEL6.png)
Title: Re: Court Claim - Euro Car Parks Euro Garage Heathrow South Notice from March '22
Post by: b789 on August 13, 2024, 08:17:51 am
No “offence” has been committed. Did you receive a copy of the original Notice to Keeper (NtK) that was issued?

Only the person named on the claim can deal with this. You can assist with everything but it must be done in the keepers name. Has the driver been identified?

With a claim date of 30th June, the acknowledgement of service (AoS) must be filed no later than 18th August. Follow the instructions in the linked pdf below on how to do the AoS:

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/r7pj2q44de5r7dg97yi83/money-claim-online-How-to-Acknowledge.pdf?rlkey=9y9gfemyylmprpjfdimw49qpk&st=kmhefmq3&dl=0

Once the AoS has been completed using the MCOL site, the defendant then has until 4pm on Monday 2nd September to file their defence. Do not file the defence using the MCOL website. The defence will be filed as a pdf attachment to an email.

Let us know when the AoS has been submitted and a suitable defence will be provided.
Title: Court Claim - Euro Car Parks Euro Garage Heathrow South Notice from March '22
Post by: Hustler6969 on August 13, 2024, 01:37:48 am
Hi all,

Very grateful for this resource after some other platforms have struggled and closed - I'm reassured with some of the names I see on here so I know us help seekers are in good hands.

I am trying to help a relative out. He had started sharing with me debt collector letters he was receiving from around Aug '23, relating to an alleged charge from ~Mar 22 for overstaying at a Euro Garage Heathrow South. At the time, and for the debt collector letters since, I had advised him to ignore them (as we were past the private charge appeal stage already) and only start taking action if he received a court claim, which has now eventually come around.

Here is a post (https://imgur.com/a/jdufL19) showing the debt collector letters from Aug/Sep 23 & Mar/Apr '24. Seems to have passed on from a company called ZZPS to GGCT then to DCBL who have brought the claim on behalf of Euro Car Parks.

Here is a copy (https://imgur.com/72cHAWY) of the court claim paperwork.

I did probe what (if anything) the driver or the keeper remembers of the alleged offence, not a lot. He tells me that he vaguely remembers hearing that time limits for stopping at that garage had been lowered, but does not have copies or can remember clearly having received the original charge letters. If anything they have already been discarded.

Now that a court claim has been received how do I (on his behalf) proceed? Is it best I manage everything online?

Since the court claim paperwork has a date of 30 Jul 2024, am I correct in my understanding that I have until 16th August to acknowledge the claim and 30th August to defend the claim? Would someone be kind enough to phrase what I should be saying when acknowledging and/or defending the claim?

I had asked for the original letters to try and work out what the original charge may have been - the debt collector letters seem to have started from £160 and now the court claim is for £278!

Many thanks in advance for your guidance/help.