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Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: WaltWhite on August 11, 2024, 10:37:43 am

Title: Re: Redbridge, code 31J entering and stopping in a box junction when prohibited (camera enforcement), Herman Hill
Post by: Hippocrates on September 18, 2024, 11:51:34 am
Thanks for letting us know.
Title: Re: Redbridge, code 31J entering and stopping in a box junction when prohibited (camera enforcement), Herman Hill
Post by: WaltWhite on September 18, 2024, 11:48:37 am
Yes. I will dig it out.

2120030405. But the issue with yours is that it contradicts the PCN too which is correct. So, how do you decide if you do not know the law? It's confusing to say the least.

So as today was the last day to pay for £65 I have indeed paid it. I wasn’t sure what that number meant so couldn’t see the successful appeal on the suggested basis. I also hadn’t screenshotted the screen saying only one ground for appeal allowed.
But perhaps the rationale suggested for the appeal would work, if they are contradicting the law….
Title: Re: Redbridge, code 31J entering and stopping in a box junction when prohibited (camera enforcement), Herman Hill
Post by: Hippocrates on September 12, 2024, 10:51:15 pm
Yes. I will dig it out.

2120030405. But the issue with yours is that it contradicts the PCN too which is correct. So, how do you decide if you do not know the law? It's confusing to say the least.
Title: Re: Redbridge, code 31J entering and stopping in a box junction when prohibited (camera enforcement), Herman Hill
Post by: WaltWhite on September 12, 2024, 10:31:53 pm
There is a technical appeal if the OP goes to challenge and screenshot the grounds page which limits to one only and which in turn contradicts the law and the PCN.

Do you know of any PCN winning on this at appeal @Hippocrates ?
Title: Re: Redbridge, code 31J entering and stopping in a box junction when prohibited (camera enforcement), Herman Hill
Post by: Hippocrates on September 09, 2024, 11:23:54 am
There is a technical appeal if the OP goes to challenge and screenshot the grounds page which limits to one only and which in turn contradicts the law and the PCN.
Title: Re: Redbridge, code 31J entering and stopping in a box junction when prohibited (camera enforcement), Herman Hill
Post by: Incandescent on September 08, 2024, 11:26:23 pm
I see no reason to take this to London Tribunals, as the odds on winning are very poor IMHO. Nobody has come on yet with a "technical" appeal argument, and they have re-offered the discount.
Title: Re: Redbridge, code 31J entering and stopping in a box junction when prohibited (camera enforcement), Herman Hill
Post by: WaltWhite on September 08, 2024, 11:04:37 pm
So as expected LB Redbridge have rejected my representations, see photos. Hopefully you can just about read the first page not scanned very well for some reason...

(https://i.imgur.com/bmngl3b.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Gqxs7od.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/xNYOCEV.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/D3dFkbv.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/KNKQbDr.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/xocR6Qf.jpeg)

If I could get any advice as to next steps, ie just pay it now or any reason to take it further, I would appreciate it...
Title: Re: Redbridge, code 31J entering and stopping in a box junction when prohibited (camera enforcement), Herman Hill
Post by: Incandescent on August 12, 2024, 11:48:38 am
The driver has no role in the decriminalised parking and traffic regime, it is all the owner's responsibility, although a person can be authorised to act on the owner's behalf, but if a case is lost, the owner must pay the PCN penalty.

Despite my comment, why not submit reps on the basis of your first post, (two lanes for exiting the box), and see what they say.
Title: Re: Redbridge, code 31J entering and stopping in a box junction when prohibited (camera enforcement), Herman Hill
Post by: WaltWhite on August 12, 2024, 10:11:44 am
Well, to be frank, you just rushed into the box without any hesitation at all when the car in front was still in it. This car then stopped leaving you in the box. The road is a single carriageway with one lane for each direction, so where you get the idea of two lanes from is a puzzle.
The 10 seconds stop time might seem small but it's infinity if you've ever thrown a hand grenade !  It's well outside the de minimis region

Hi it's the third photo on my second set of pictures that shows perhaps two lines of traffic (car turning right at the lights just ahead of box junction).
There might be more traffic there today, as its a Monday that shows this.
But yes there isn't two lanes marked out so maybe not of any consequence.

By the way after giving it some thought I don't think it was actually me driving! Although it is my car...

I can confirm too that I have never thrown a hand grenade, and have no plans to :)

Any grounds for representations do we reckon?

Title: Re: Redbridge, code 31J entering and stopping in a box junction when prohibited (camera enforcement), Herman Hill
Post by: mickR on August 11, 2024, 10:10:25 pm
I note its also a surprisingly small box
Title: Re: Redbridge, code 31J entering and stopping in a box junction when prohibited (camera enforcement), Herman Hill
Post by: Incandescent on August 11, 2024, 09:01:08 pm
Well, to be frank, you just rushed into the box without any hesitation at all when the car in front was still in it. This car then stopped leaving you in the box. The road is a single carriageway with one lane for each direction, so where you get the idea of two lanes from is a puzzle.
The 10 seconds stop time might seem small but it's infinity if you've ever thrown a hand grenade !  It's well outside the de minimis region
Title: Re: Redbridge, code 31J entering and stopping in a box junction when prohibited (camera enforcement), Herman Hill
Post by: WaltWhite on August 11, 2024, 01:04:15 pm
Here are some more photos of the junction
(https://i.imgur.com/K7J5tuj.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/XoNfmtV.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/14tW9NV.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/MtMzEmf.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/5tvLEop.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Smv6vJw.jpeg)

There aren't two lanes marked but in one of the photos it looks like the traffic has moved into two lanes to for those turning right...any use?

There might be more traffic tomorrow to show this...

Thanks for looking @stamfordman

Title: Re: Redbridge, code 31J entering and stopping in a box junction when prohibited (camera enforcement), Herman Hill
Post by: stamfordman on August 11, 2024, 11:18:24 am
dupe deleted
Title: Re: Redbridge, code 31J entering and stopping in a box junction when prohibited (camera enforcement), Herman Hill
Post by: stamfordman on August 11, 2024, 11:17:25 am
This is unfortunate - you had to squeeze out on the left as there seems to be room or bail out down side road - but in a queue you have to assume you may not have room to exit. If a car stops short for no good reason that's another matter.
There doesn't seem to be two lanes?

Possible vague location on PCN.

(https://i.imgur.com/dQoUaK2.gif)
Title: Redbridge, code 31J entering and stopping in a box junction when prohibited (camera enforcement), Herman Hill
Post by: WaltWhite on August 11, 2024, 10:37:43 am
Hi all,

You have been very helpful here in the past so here I am again.....
Only just opened this as have been away on holiday - date of this notice is 01 August

From the video I entered the box thinking the cars in front would go to what I thought was two lanes... this is just before a set of traffic lights and the cars are queueing...I drove across the junction but couldn't pull in beside the car in front of me...

My car is actually only completely stopped for approx 10 seconds (from the video...)

Herman Hill is actually quite a long road with lots of junctions.

Here is the PCN
(https://i.imgur.com/1BIsr9J.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/iPcGijy.jpeg)

This StreetView is 2 years old, and doesn't show the box junction. I will go out now and take a couple of pics...

https://maps.app.goo.gl/E888AfqLUjiwEnTH7

I'm afraid I can't work out how to upload the video, but here is a link to it on the council website with the details to copy and paste if you think it's worth viewing...

https://my.redbridge.gov.uk/ParkingPCN/Review (https://my.redbridge.gov.uk/ParkingPCN/Review)
Penalty Charge Notice: AF98917357
Vehicle registration: CV61XUX

If anyone could advise on what to put on a representation, and my chances here I would as always be very appreciative. I don't have long I think to put it in, by Wednesday I believe....