Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: sc2509 on August 07, 2024, 10:27:31 pm
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Ok. Tribunal time and I am happy to represent. I will PM you to get the ball rolling.
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So I submitted a formal rep with the below:
I make the following challenge:
1. The alleged contravention did not occur as there was no warning signage of a bus lane at the junction. I rely upon:
Traffic Signs Manual, Chapter Three:
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5c78f895e5274a0ebfec719b/traffic-signs-manual-chapter-03.pdf
9.3.16. The sign to diagram 962 is most likely to be used where a nearside bus lane is on the
same side of the major road as the side road; in this case the arrow will point to the left.
2. I also consider the white line to be faint and not fit for purpose.
3. I was forced to manoeuvre into bus lane as the vehicle in front braked suddenly as I was turning left onto the main road.
4. I put you to strict proof that the camera used is approved. If you cannot provide this, the evidence is inadmissible.
I also refer you to PCN PN75156509 which was cancelled.
In light of the above, please cancel the said PCN.
I received a rejection letter fairly quickly:
(https://i.ibb.co/DDzvSF4/Screenshot-2024-11-06-at-14-08-18.png) (https://ibb.co/3y4jLb1)
(https://i.ibb.co/jgrCxWf/Screenshot-2024-11-06-at-14-08-27.png) (https://ibb.co/XSCnd3L)
Frustrated by the inconsistency as the other PCN posted by another member on here was cancelled for the same alleged offence.
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Finally received the Enforcement Notice in the post. Since receiving the rejection to my informal appeal, I see that another member also received a PCN for the same alleged offence and appealed and won. The inconsistency is frustrating to say the least! They had the same points that I put down in my appeal.
https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/newham-34j-being-in-a-bus-lane-(camera-enforcement)/
Should I send off the same for the formal rep?
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The bus lane process is that, when it gets to the fifth set, they are required to turn up and answer questions on the camera evidence. Most do not. I haven't lost a bus lane case over the last three years and do not intend to do so now.
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LOL. I get your frustration sc2509, I live in Manor Park myself and know that the Romford Road, eastbound towards ilford Bus Lanes are 4pm-7pm. Yet in the rejection letter, M Hussain (same person who replied to one of my PCN's with a generic crappy response) said the bus lane is 24h, 7d a week. Basically implies he didn't read anything and just rejected it without good reason...
We should be able to formally complain against some of these customer service agents at Newham Council. Terrible
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Wait for the Enforcement Notice. I note they are yet another London council not reoffering the discount. This is a fettering of natural justice. I will add them to my list.
https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/london-councils-who-do-not-reoffer-the-discount-in-the-formal-notice-of-rejectio/msg36437/#msg36437
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Failed to acknowledge any of the points raised! >:(
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(https://i.ibb.co/TLyTGYT/pg1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/YZgWSPW)
(https://i.ibb.co/RGnX427/pg2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Ngh0nx7)
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Good to go IMO.
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Thanks all for your help so far. Will be submitting the following today:
To Whom It May Concern:
Ref: PCN PN75540198
I make the following challenge:
1. The alleged contravention did not occur as there was no warning signage of a bus lane at the junction. I rely upon:
Traffic Signs Manual, Chapter Three:
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5c78f895e5274a0ebfec719b/traffic-signs-manual-chapter-03.pdf
9.3.16. The sign to diagram 962 is most likely to be used where a nearside bus lane is on the
same side of the major road as the side road; in this case the arrow will point to the left.
2. I also consider the white line to be faint and not fit for purpose.
3. I was forced to manoeuvre into bus lane as the vehicle in front braked suddenly as I was turning left onto the main road.
4. I put you to strict proof that the camera used is approved. If you cannot provide this, the evidence is inadmissible.
In light of the above, please cancel the said PCN.
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Dear Newham
Ref: PCN
I make the following challenge:
1. The alleged contravention did not occur as there was no warning signage of a bus lane at the junction. I rely upon:
Traffic Signs Manual, Chapter Three:
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5c78f895e5274a0ebfec719b/traffic-signs-manual-chapter-03.pdf
9.3.16. The sign to diagram 962 is most likely to be used where a nearside bus lane is on the
same side of the major road as the side road; in this case the arrow will point to the left.
2. I also consider the white line to be faint and not fit for purpose.
3. Explain why your manoeuvre was necessary here
4. I put you to strict proof that the camera used is approved. If you cannot provide this, the evidence is inadmissible.
In light of the above, please cancel the said PCN.
Reg. keeper
Address
****************
Please post up a final version first for any further advice.
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Amazing, thanks for the help. I can confirm there is no signs on the side road relating to the bus lane
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+1
The key sentence is this: -
"The sign to diagram 962 should not be necessary where a bus lane commences downstream of
the junction, provided that a driver turning into the major road would see a sign to diagram 958
in good time to react to it"
Here, the bus lane commences immediately on making the turn.
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So there is a bus lane sign on the corner where the side and main road meet, you can see it in the left corner of the video.
No. As per Incandescent.
Traffic Signs Manual, Chapter Three:
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5c78f895e5274a0ebfec719b/traffic-signs-manual-chapter-03.pdf
9.3.16. The sign to diagram 962 is most likely to be used where a nearside bus lane is on the
same side of the major road as the side road; in this case the arrow will point to the left.
There are decisions on this. If missing this is a ground of appeal.
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So there is a bus lane sign on the corner where the side and main road meet, you can see it in the left corner of the video.
That's the sign for traffic on the main road. There should be a sign on the side road as you approach the junction. I had a quick look on GSV and the latest view is 2015. This shows that no sign is present on Manor Park Road to warn of a bus lane when turning left. Of course the council will claim the main sign is sufficient, but this is false, because if you're turning left, your main focus as a driver is traffic approaching from the right.
So you need to check if any sign is there now.
The main problem you have so far is that the video doesn't support your narrative in your initial post. However, the absence of any warning of a bus lane to the left at the junction is in your favour.
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So there is a bus lane sign on the corner where the side and main road meet, you can see it in the left corner of the video.
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There should be a sign warning you of the impending bus lane at the end of the junction. I would not say you knew the road.
Is there one?
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Unfortunately, the video just shows you pulling out of the side road and turning left into the bus lane and carrying on in it to the end.
If there is a "technical" appeal argument, I'm sure the experts on here will tell you, but bear in mind you'd have to take them to London Tribunals with the full PCN penalty in play. SO advice is to wait a bit until others have contributed, but not to miss the deadline for submitting representations.
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Hi everyone, looking for some help in appealing this one. I was expecting it as soon as I realised what I had done on the day.
So allow me to explain what happened, I was driving out of the the road that I live on, onto the main road Romford Road. There was a vehicle driving in the direction that I was intending to travel in, I allowed it to pass and pulled out behind the vehicle. As I was pulling out onto the main road the vehicle in front was braking a lot sooner than I had anticipated, so I instinctively pulled in to the bus lane to avoid having to brake hard. As I was turning left at the next junction, I stayed in the bus lane. The distance between me entering the bus lane and the end of the bus lane is roughly 100 yards.
Now i'm not expecting Newham to believe my version of events, so i'm hoping I am able to appeal on any technicalities. Please help :)
(https://i.ibb.co/WgQw4Xk/Cam-Scanner-08-07-2024-22-19.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/8NPq0Cn/Cam-Scanner-08-07-2024-22-19-1.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/2ds5CHj/buslane.jpg)
Link to video: https://imgur.com/Kbs6zvr