Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: mosana on August 07, 2024, 03:07:13 pm
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Outcome (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1mvOlAH7kYpo8CgxK-l115IItZMUIP_Dp/view).
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Well done for sticking with it. And thank you for reporting back the outcome, all to often we don't get to know what happened.
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The appeal has been allowed and the ticket is cancelled, for lack of TMO.
Thanks so much community - <3 for all your advice!
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You have a complete knock-out winning ground with the missing TMO, I would not distract the adjudicator with inconsequential matters.
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You would also look a bit silly, complaing that a document helpfully sent to the correct address was not sent to an address you have vacated.
Not quite - the council messed up the sending part anyway, and I had to file a TE9 saying I did not receive the NTo that they claim they sent. After another 2 months, I received the NTO in September.
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I did not, they have submitted an evidence showing how they got my address from the DVLA system on July 2nd.
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You would also look a bit silly, complaing that a document helpfully sent to the correct address was not sent to an address you have vacated.
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Hi all,
The case is coming up on Wednesday, and I want to check on one more thing. I moved houses in May and promptly changed V5c too. However the Nto was issued in July to my new address. Is this a contravention by the council as the Nto should have been addressed to the old address as it is the address at the material time as the contravention occurred in March?
Can this be a deal-breaker? Can I have the V5c submitted as evidence or is anything else required?
I don't think so, because you may have told them your address when submitting representations.
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Hi all,
The case is coming up on Wednesday, and I want to check on one more thing. I moved houses in May and promptly changed V5c too. However the Nto was issued in July to my new address. Is this a contravention by the council as the Nto should have been addressed to the old address as it is the address at the material time as the contravention occurred in March?
Can this be a deal-breaker? Can I have the V5c submitted as evidence or is anything else required?
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Thanks so much (https://www.ftla.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=1)@cp8759 and (https://www.ftla.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=38)@Enceladus - will share the outcome
tomorrow on Feb 19th - as the hearing has been postponed for lack of adjudicators (earliest available date it seems)!
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@mosana to create a restriction the council can't just put some paint on the road and wack up some signs, there needs to be a local bylaw called a Traffic Management Order, I happen to know that in Croydon that would be The Croydon (On-Street Charged-For Parking Places) (Consolidation) Order 2019 (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1NiXtst_v-GPpi3JQG9a-JI0tfHBBNHwt/view), that is a map based order so there would also need to be the map tiles for the order.
If there's no order in evidence this is how I would play things out: at the start of the hearing give the whole story of everything that happened (in summary form, you only have a few minutes and you don't want to run out of time), that is just mitigation but should earn you some sympathy.
Then point out that there is no traffic management order in the council's evidence pack, so there is no evidence of any contravention. Once you point that out, in 99% of cases the adjudicator will not grant an adjournment to the authority and will simply allow the appeal.
You can cite these cases to the adjudicator:
Mohammed Sharif v London Borough of Waltham Forest (2210634991, 16 December 2021) (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1UsAit_tkYvnMjP0LqLsiU40QmxCSiQAz/view)
Adedoyin Amoye v London Borough of Southwark (2240033265, 16 March 2024) (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1eaNXmwtAYNQ0ctYpbwoJaFCcSfgxHyNu/view)
Commercial Plant Services Ltd v City of Westminster (2240059939, 20 April 2024) (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1o2X1w3qGcjO-oLRq0dZ2HT7l54OLVVum/view)
Fawaz Mohamed v City of Westminster (2240162188, 8 July 2024) (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1lNGEMZQLOQj1fB8TcYVMjc6APCJcA8Fy/view)
Mohamed Rohan Malik v London Borough of Harrow (2240483647, 9 December 2024) (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1sYr9QZ4IE_wFEi3nVwfoTJXNobu1yq9G/view)
Do not submit anything before the hearing, the last thing you want to do is forewarn the council and give them an opportunity to rectify their mistake.
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A bit of a ramble I know ..........
The case summary is 3 pages (sides) long.
The evidence list says "B. Case Summary & Traffic Management Order" and "Total no. of sides = 3". That suggests to me that the TMO has not been included. If it had been included then the number of sides would be larger.
The problem thus far has been that all you have is strong mitigation. Neither the Council or the Police instructed you to park in the pay & display bay, albeit temporarily, whilst you went to find somebody to provide guidance. So at first sight the PCN was lawful and correctly issued and the Council is entitled to pursue it.
However the Adjudicator cannot rule on mitigation, only the facts, the balance of probability and whether or not correct procedure has been followed.
The Adjudicator can (rarely done) ask the Council to reconsider and cancel which is probably what you were aiming at.
In your case the Notice of Rejection seems to be your only avenue of procedural defect. The Council are obliged to consider your formal representations against the Notice to Owner. Your reps were clear and comprehensive however the NoR is very sparse with minimal detail suggesting a boilerplate rejection with little or no actual consideration. Conversely the subsequent case summary is much more comprehensive. Seems they only really considered your representations when you submitted an appeal to the Adjudicator.
However the Council is also obliged to submit evidence to the Tribunal as to the contravention and why they believe it occurred. The Traffic Order creates the alleged contravention and should be presented in evidence. If the Traffic Order is really not there then you can also argue that there is no evidence to lawfully establish the alleged contravention.
Also Section C says the penalty outstanding is £130. I would point it out to the Adjudicator as an unlawful demand for money. The figure should be £80. The Adjudicator might well dismiss that as just a typo and not relevant.
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To clarify:
In this link (https://imgur.com/a/fzLABqA),
there is one doc that says: Case summary and traffic management order, but it does not have a traffic management order.
and in another, it says the penalty is £130, when it is supposed to be £80.
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So where's the traffic order, are you saying it hasn't been provided?
You mean the court order to cancel the earlier PCN? I have attached that. There is no other traffic order in the case bundle.
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So where's the traffic order, are you saying it hasn't been provided?
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Thanks, collating all info here:
Case pack link (https://imgur.com/a/ukb9jhR)
Evidences (https://imgur.com/a/evidences-aJWmaCP)
Notices (https://imgur.com/a/pcn-notices-wMw2sZD)
Notices and case summary (https://imgur.com/a/nor-case-summary-kmH1F5j)
Traffic order (https://imgur.com/a/9xWu9CS)
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(https://www.ftla.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=1)@cp8759 - would you mind giving some free advice this time around? ;)
You'll need to share the whole evidence pack, otherwise there's nothing to give advice on.
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Thanks @H C Andersen (https://www.ftla.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=428), but this is a more recent episode (September), while my story took place in March 2024!
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..on which topic..
OP, is this the event...
Residents at the scene were told by the police “there was an incident involving a car at the BP garage which resulted in a major gas leak”. A safety cordon with a 200-metre radius from the crash was put in place, with all residents in homes within that area forced to evacuate.
By mid-afternoon today, though, some residents still did not know when they would get to return to their homes, if at all, or where they might be spending the night.
(Ref: https://insidecroydon.com/2024/09/29/gas-leak-evacuation-sees-residents-furious-at-croydon-council/)
If so, then does '..we were asked to evacuate our house at short notice..' really convey the reality.
'Please would you like to leave/awfully grateful if you would' rather like Sgt. Wilson in Dad's Army, or 'raus, raus, aussteigen!' as in The Great Escape?
In any event, if you want to beef up the preliminary events you might find the newspaper's account a useful aide-memoire.
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The Croydon Insider blog might like the story or steve.bird@telegraph.co.uk
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@cp8759 (https://www.ftla.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=1) - would you mind giving some free advice this time around? ;)
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(https://www.ftla.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=1)@cp8759 - will be happy if you can pitch your advise too :)
@mosana would you like me to represent you for CR46274186 as well?
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This is the draft copy of the formal rep I sent to the council.
We are residing in .... and we have been residents for three years in Croydon. On March 22, 2024, we were asked to evacuate our house at short notice because of a gas leak in the area. Being an emergency, we were not given details about the duration of the evacuation.
After a few hours, we were told by a Met Police staff that we will be unable to spend the night at our home. We were given the address of a church to stay overnight (attached pic). We were not permitted to return to our homes till the noon of Saturday. We made many calls to the council for updates, but they did not have much information about the status on the ground. They redirected us to the gas agency, SGN.
While the gas agency messaged us on Saturday at 10:56 AM, that we were allowed back into our homes, it did not tell us that the road access to our home was blocked and our car won’t be able to come in. We arrived on Lansdowne Road (which is one-way) but found the access to our home was blocked. There were no diversion signs, or information about where residents of Emerald House have to go.
I parked the car safely at the nearby Walpole Road, and went to inquire the staff and the police in the area about the diversion and instructions for residents of Emerald House. I wanted to understand the situation before deciding the length of the time for which I had to buy parking, because it was not my original intention to park in that bay.
It was during this time that my car had been ticketed. The observation period in the ticket was under a minute.
Had there been clear instructions on the diversion, or had we been told about the blockade in advance, we would have acted accordingly. I also had placed a clearly signposted message on the car, saying that there has been an emergency evacuation at our house. Besides, the ticketing officer has indicated an observation time from 11:30 to 11:30. I did not receive sufficient time for getting the information about the road block, or spotting the officer and explaining the situation to them.
In their notice to rejection and informal rejection, the council makes no allusion to our situation and has provided only a generic rejection letter. The super-short observation period of under a minute has also not been addressed.
We appeal to cancel the PCN on account of the above procedural impropriety by the council.
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@Enceladus (https://www.ftla.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=38)
I have attached the details here (https://imgur.com/a/9xWu9CS).
I could not ask both to be considered together as the first one came up for hearing three months back.
@cp8759 (https://www.ftla.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=1) - will be happy if you can pitch your advise too :)
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Is the below the text of you formal representation against the re-issued NTO? If not please post up exactly what you did submit to the Council.
And did you ask the Tribunal to consider both cases together? I guess not?
And since the NTO was re-issued we should at least have a look at page 1. Please post that up, redact your name and address.
And please post up the court order issued by the TEC. Just redact your name and address.
Also please post up a draft of your skeleton on here for scrutiny and crediblilty check.
Here goes the draft...
I would like to appeal the PCN CR46209082 through the arguments in my formal representation. I would like to combine the appeal with the appeal against PCN CR46274186 and also would like to request a personal hearing. Both PCN's were levied after I was evacuated from my house by the council on Mar 22, 2024 and not allowed back till the afternoon of March 23, 2024.
Details:
On March 22, 2024, we were asked to evacuate our house at short notice because of a gas leak in the area. Being an emergency, we were not given details about the duration of the evacuation.
After a few hours, we were told by a Met Police staff that we will be unable to spend the night at our home. We were given the address of a church to stay overnight. The police were not able to give advice on where to park our cars. We have 2 kids of 4 and 1 year old at home, so we had to use our car to transport the family, after taking basic food and milk supplies for the kid and the baby.
The car park at the church was occupied, and so I had parked the car overnight on Altyre road, and had planned to move it during the morning upon further instructions from the council and the gas agency. I kept calling the council through the morning about the next course of action for the residents, but they were not able to provide me with any updates. I had also been ticketed during this time. PCN CR46209082 was issued in the morning (08:34) while I was still awaiting instructions from the council to no avail.
As per the Civil Contingencies Act 2004, in the event of an emergency, it is imperative for the local council to:
Put in place arrangements to make information available to the public about civil
protection matters and maintain arrangements to warn, inform and advise the public
in the event of an emergency;
Food provisioning was not taken care of by the council. The council also failed to provide information about the expected timelines and make contingency arrangements (including food provisions) for families with kids. Had there been clear instructions on parking arrangements after the evacuation, we would have followed those instructions.
We made many calls to the council for updates, but they did not have much information about the status on the ground. They redirected us to the gas agency, SGN.
While the gas agency messaged us on Saturday at 10:56 AM, that we were allowed back into our homes, it did not tell us that the road access to our home was blocked and our car won’t be able to come in. We arrived on Lansdowne Road (which is one-way) but found the access to our home was blocked. There were no diversion signs, or information about where residents of Emerald House have to go.
I parked the car safely at the nearby Walpole Road, and went to inquire the staff and the police in the area about the diversion and instructions for residents of Emerald House. It was during this time that my car had been ticketed.
Had there been clear instructions on the diversion, or had we been told about the blockade in advance, we would have acted accordingly. I also had placed a clearly signposted message on the car, saying that there has been an emergency evacuation at our house. Besides, the ticketing officer has indicated an observation time from 11:30 to 11:30. I did not receive sufficient time for getting the information about the road block, or spotting the officer and explaining the situation to them.
We kindly request the adjudicator to cancel our PCN considering the council has not given us any directions during the evacuation on parking and blocked the way to our home without any information on return.
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@Enceladus (https://www.ftla.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=38)
Attaching the NoR and case summary:
Link to nor and case summary (https://imgur.com/a/kmH1F5j)
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Did you not ask the Tribunal to combine the cases?
Anyway do you have the Notice of Rejection for the Jan 7th case? Or is the case a result of referral to the Adjudicator as a result of an order from the Traffic Enforcement Centre? If you have the NoR please post it up. Redact your name and address.
You should have the evidence pack, it may be online on the Tribunal appeal portal? Please post up the Council's case summary document. And the NoR should also be in the Council pack.
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CR46209082 has been won above, thanks to cp and Croydon council not submitting its evidence. PCN CR46274186 is coming up on Jan 7, unfortunately Croydon have submitted evidence this time. What are the main arguments I can put forth to win this?
My thoughts:
1. The notice of rejection is generic - it does not address the "Emergency evacuation" sign, or the blocked roads.
2. The observation period is 11:40 to 11:40 - it is too short for the officer to have understood the circumstances.
Is there anything else I can state to strengthen my chances of winning?
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Outcome (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1nwTcmFgkI_EpeTqMKxYkU-8ivmsi5UIe/view).
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@Enceladus: It is dated Sep 2nd, so some time left. I plan to check again over the next week, else will be posting them instead of emailing. Will also try calling on Monday but not much hope on that front.
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Thanks @H C Andersen for your thoughts on this. Indeed, it was a confusing morning, as we did not what lay ahead of us on the day. I was busy calling the council throughout the morning.
The observation time on the PCN was from 08:34 to 08:35 - which is as short as it can get. Is this something I can harp on in order to get this cancelled at the appeal stage?
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OP, thinking ahead to your appeal(s), I suggest you rethink your argument.
It is not within the council's power to order you to evacuate, this lies with the emergency services. In the early stages of an emergency, even one which is very limited and localised as in your case, the council's role is supportive during the emergency phase becoming more executive during the recovery phase. IMO you will get nowhere by misquoting the CCA or criticising the council in the way you have: IMO the adjudicator won't be interested, you take these matters up(and should have taken them up) separately. For example, have you complained to the council about the support it provided e.g. shelter, information, food etc? After all, these aren't matters contingent upon whether reps against PCNs are successful or not.
As regards the Altyre Rd PCN, I suggest you look at the circumstances again. For example, did you park when there weren't any parking restrictions? If so, no problem at that time. The issue arose the following morning. Which church hall and where relative to Altyre?
Perhaps..you knew that parking restrictions came into effect at 8am but the situation in the church hall, where you were being accommodated by the council, was such that you did not know when or if you might have to vacate the hall and in all honesty after such a turbulent night and early morning it was not practicable to move your car before 8.34 am. when the PCN was issued....
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Double ouch, ouch!
Please confirm that you emailed the TEC to submit a Witness Statement?
And against which PCN?
What is the deadline to submit your Witness Statement? IE the date on the Order for Recovery?
Please print off and keep safe all the email bounce messages.
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I tried to mail TEC on my order of recovery for the PCN CR46274186, but I get this error message:
Delivery has failed to these recipients or groups:
tec@justice.gov.uk
The recipient's mailbox is full and can't accept messages now. Please try resending your message later, or contact the recipient directly.
Anyone else facing the same issue?
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Thanks @cp8759, have DM'ed you on this!
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I have received a mail from the council saying the notice to owner for CR46274186 was indeed sent to me on Jul 3. However I dont have it with me! Attaching it here (https://imgur.com/a/ikNHdbp).
Should I just wait for the Order of recovery now? Is there any chance that my challenge against the order of recovery will be rejected?
@mosana for PCN CR46274186 as long as you don't miss any deadlines the witness statement you will file against the Order for Recovery cannot be rejected, the court has no discretion. Please read the guide here and just follow the instructions: https://www.ftla.uk/announcements/charge-certificate-cases-under-the-traffic-management-act-2004-no-original-pcn/
As for PCN CR46209082 you need to request a hearing, do not ask for a decision in your absence. If you'd like me to represent you my offer still stands.
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I have received a mail from the council saying the notice to owner for CR46274186 was indeed sent to me on Jul 3. However I dont have it with me! Attaching it here (https://imgur.com/a/ikNHdbp).
Should I just wait for the Order of recovery now? Is there any chance that my challenge against the order of recovery will be rejected?
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Would love to get feedback on the draft above, as today is the submission deadline :'(
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@mosana I'll drop you a PM in case you'd like to be represented.
Thanks @cp8759, may I ask what do you think about the chances in this case?
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Also please post up a draft of your skeleton on here for scrutiny and crediblilty check.
Here goes the draft...
I would like to appeal the PCN CR46209082 through the arguments in my formal representation. I would like to combine the appeal with the appeal against PCN CR46274186 and also would like to request a personal hearing. Both PCN's were levied after I was evacuated from my house by the council on Mar 22, 2024 and not allowed back till the afternoon of March 23, 2024.
Details:
On March 22, 2024, we were asked to evacuate our house at short notice because of a gas leak in the area. Being an emergency, we were not given details about the duration of the evacuation.
After a few hours, we were told by a Met Police staff that we will be unable to spend the night at our home. We were given the address of a church to stay overnight. The police were not able to give advice on where to park our cars. We have 2 kids of 4 and 1 year old at home, so we had to use our car to transport the family, after taking basic food and milk supplies for the kid and the baby.
The car park at the church was occupied, and so I had parked the car overnight on Altyre road, and had planned to move it during the morning upon further instructions from the council and the gas agency. I kept calling the council through the morning about the next course of action for the residents, but they were not able to provide me with any updates. I had also been ticketed during this time. PCN CR46209082 was issued in the morning (08:34) while I was still awaiting instructions from the council to no avail.
As per the Civil Contingencies Act 2004, in the event of an emergency, it is imperative for the local council to:
Put in place arrangements to make information available to the public about civil
protection matters and maintain arrangements to warn, inform and advise the public
in the event of an emergency;
Food provisioning was not taken care of by the council. The council also failed to provide information about the expected timelines and make contingency arrangements (including food provisions) for families with kids. Had there been clear instructions on parking arrangements after the evacuation, we would have followed those instructions.
We made many calls to the council for updates, but they did not have much information about the status on the ground. They redirected us to the gas agency, SGN.
While the gas agency messaged us on Saturday at 10:56 AM, that we were allowed back into our homes, it did not tell us that the road access to our home was blocked and our car won’t be able to come in. We arrived on Lansdowne Road (which is one-way) but found the access to our home was blocked. There were no diversion signs, or information about where residents of Emerald House have to go.
I parked the car safely at the nearby Walpole Road, and went to inquire the staff and the police in the area about the diversion and instructions for residents of Emerald House. It was during this time that my car had been ticketed.
Had there been clear instructions on the diversion, or had we been told about the blockade in advance, we would have acted accordingly. I also had placed a clearly signposted message on the car, saying that there has been an emergency evacuation at our house. Besides, the ticketing officer has indicated an observation time from 11:30 to 11:30. I did not receive sufficient time for getting the information about the road block, or spotting the officer and explaining the situation to them.
We kindly request the adjudicator to cancel our PCN considering the council has not given us any directions during the evacuation on parking and blocked the way to our home without any information on return.
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@Enceladus yes I've now found the NoR, so yes an appeal must be filed.
@mosana I'll drop you a PM in case you'd like to be represented.
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Thanks, it is time for me to appeal! I have two questions.
I'm not sure that's correct, I can only see an informal rejection in reply 8 above? In which case you need to wait for the notice to owner.
As for the charge certificate one, if you can get the council to tell you the date that the notice of rejection was issued (or even better send you a copy), then we can go straight to the tribunal without having to wait for the Order for Recovery (the guide I wrote doesn't go into this because while it is a more convenient route, it doesn't work in all cases and isn't suitable for a DIY approach, but if it works it will save loads of time and hassle).
@cp8759
The OP has received an NTO for PCN CR46209082 dated 23/07/2024 in respect of an alleged contravention on the 23/03/2024. The OP submitted formal representations and the Council has responded with an NoR dated 01/08/2024 which includes the verification code required to submit an online appeal to the London Tribunals.
Hence the OP now needs to get his appeal to the independent adjudicator at the London Tribunals registered, at an absolute minimum.
There is a second PCN. The OP needs to clarify the status of this. Last he confirmed he had a Charge Certificate and had not received any NoR.
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Thanks, it is time for me to appeal! I have two questions.
I'm not sure that's correct, I can only see an informal rejection in reply 8 above? In which case you need to wait for the notice to owner.
As for the charge certificate one, if you can get the council to tell you the date that the notice of rejection was issued (or even better send you a copy), then we can go straight to the tribunal without having to wait for the Order for Recovery (the guide I wrote doesn't go into this because while it is a more convenient route, it doesn't work in all cases and isn't suitable for a DIY approach, but if it works it will save loads of time and hassle).
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I'd use the ground "The penalty charge exceeded the amount applicable in the circumstances of the case". You can use more than one ground however I'm not sure where the "procedural impropriety" occurs.
Please conrirm the status of the PCN for which you received a Charge Certificate? Have you received an Order for Recovery for it and did you submit a Witness Statement to the Traffic Enforcement Centre? Or are you still waiting for the OfR?
And lay out what exactly happened and how your car ended up where it did on each occasion and X-ref both PCNs. Emphasise the mains gas leak and the Council order to evacuate. I understand the first PCN but I'm not sure about the second, so make the circumstances clear. Type it up and upload it as an attachment so you don't lose any formatting. Request a personal hearing.
It's always best to get your appeals to the adjudicator registered in a timely manner so you don't accicdently lose by default. If you need to then put "detailed submission to follow" as your appeal, but make sure you get it done. Personally I suggest it's best to at least get a skeleton case submitted to the Tribunl and update it later if needs be.
If you have only one appeal to register right now then mention that you will be seeking to add an appeal for the second PCN in due course and you want the two cases combined. Just in case there is a long delay.
Also please post up a draft of your skeleton on here for scrutiny and crediblilty check.
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Any help please @Neil B (https://www.ftla.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=13) @cp8759 (https://www.ftla.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=1) @H C Andersen (https://www.ftla.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=428). Thanks, and much appreciated!
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Thanks, it is time for me to appeal! I have two questions.
1. On which grounds should I apply? (I believe it is procedural impropriety)
2. Explain why you are appealing. (how detailed should I be?, and will I get a chance if I have left something out?)
I just intend to say the council pushed me out of my home, and failed to provide adequate support and information on car parking during the evacuation.
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We'll talk about that in more detail when I or others have more time.
Better still we have a guide >
https://www.ftla.uk/announcements/charge-certificate-cases-under-the-traffic-management-act-2004-no-original-pcn/
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Ok, for CR46274186 you need to wait for the next notice, the Order for Recovery.
You then make a simple Witness Statement (tick a box) to the effect that no NtO received.
The matter is then reset to where it should be.
We'll talk about that in more detail when I or others have more time.
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The rejection explains how to appeal to the adjudicator.
We normally recommend that you do this via the online Tribunal portal.Just say that you rely on your formal representations. Then we just wait and see if they contest.
For the other one ---- I need to read back through the thread first.
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Yes, I have attached them as part of the "Link to PCNs" link.
@Neil, is that sufficient or have I missed anything?
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So are we going to see the rejection and, for the other one, the Charge Certificate.
Then we can move on. (the rejection should clearly tell you anyway-- for one at least.
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Yes, 2024, sorry!
The initial rejection for both PCN's came only to my email address on May 17, 2024. I had moved houses and changed address on V5c on May 3, 2024. The rejection emails do not bear my address.
It appears for the first PCN, the notice of owner has correctly arrived at my new address, but for the second, the notice to owner never arrived, only the charge certificate did.
I did not do a redirection for my mails though - will this bite me?
Link for refusal emails (https://imgur.com/a/PwL5VHj)
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Please review your dates, you mean 2024 not 2023, yes?
received on Aug 7, a charge certificate saying that the notice to owner received on Jul 3 was ignored. It can possibly have been wrongly sent to old address - I changed V5c address in May so not a problem from my side.
ALL notices sent by post MUST use the address of the registered keeper on the date of the contravention UNLESS the authority are informed by the keeper otherwise. They wrote to you to reject your initial reps but at which address, old or new?
If your old and when you moved you did not tell authority and did not put in place mail redirection with RM then this might explain the missing NTO.
But it can't explain how you then received the CC.
OP, to which addresses were the initial rejection and CC sent?
This is very much 'a problem from your side' I'm afraid, but perhaps not irrecoverable.
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Full story for PCN's:
CR46209082
Date of issue: Mar 23
appealed within 14 days
rejected
waited for notice to owner
received notice to owner on Jul 3
appealed
rejected
rejection received on Aug 7
CR46274186
Date of issue: Mar 23
appealed within 14 days
rejected
waited for notice to owner
did not receive notice to owner at all
received on Aug 7, a charge certificate saying that the notice to owner received on Jul 3 was ignored. It can possibly have been wrongly sent to old address - I changed V5c address in May so not a problem from my side.
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confused about what to do next and where to go!
You haven't told us the full story, i.e. where you are in the process and we haven't seen some of the notices.
You mentioned not receiving rejection(s) and receiving a Charge Certificate(s)?
It can be simple enough to resolve once we have the whole picture.
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In both the offences, note how the observation time is less than a minute! It feels like targeting someone reeling from a home evacuation and confused about what to do next and where to go!
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My representation to receive notice of rejection:
We are based in ..., and we have been residents for three years in Croydon. On March 22, 2024, we were asked to evacuate our house at short notice because of a gas leak in the area. Being an emergency, we were not given details about the duration of the evacuation.
After a few hours, we were told by a Met Police staff that we will be unable to spend the night at our home. We were given the address of a church to stay overnight. The police were not able to give advice on where to park our cars. We have 2 kids of 4 and 1 year old at home, so we had to use our car to transport the family, after taking basic food and milk supplies for the kid and the baby.
The car park at the church was occupied, and so I had parked the car overnight on Altyre road, and had planned to move it during the morning upon further instructions from the council and the gas agency. I kept calling the council through the morning about the next course of action for the residents, but they were not able to provide me with any updates. I had also been ticketed during this time.
As per the Civil Contingencies Act 2004, in the event of an emergency, it is imperative for the local council to:
Put in place arrangements to make information available to the public about civil
protection matters and maintain arrangements to warn, inform and advise the public
in the event of an emergency;
Food provisioning was not taken care of by the council. The council also failed to provide information about the expected timelines and make contingency arrangements (including food provisions) for families with kids. Had there been clear instructions on parking arrangements after the evacuation, we would have followed those instructions.
We kindly request the council to consider the extenuating circumstances to waive our ticket.
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Attaching the two PCN's and the subsequent notices of rejection (for one of the two, I did not get a notice of rejection but only a charge certificate, very likely because I had changed address (including new v5c), but the council did not bother to check.).
One of the two PCN's was issued in the morning (0830), as I had parked on an adjoining road as the church parking was occupied. The second PCN was issued when I was returning home after the evacuation and the one-way was blocked without indication of where to go.
Link to the PCNs (https://imgur.com/a/wMw2sZD)
Evidences (https://imgur.com/a/aJWmaCP)
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Read this about posting the PCN:
https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/
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Hello,
I was recently evacuated from my home by the council because of a gas leak in the area. I had to stay overnight at a church. I kept calling the council about the return, and was allowed to return only the next day morning.
As I was returning home by car, I found the road to my home was still blocked. No signs of how to reach my home. It was a one way so there was no other way to reach my home.
I clearly put a paper sign saying "Emergency evacuation" at a parking space, and went to enquire a policeman in the area. I was then told that I can move in but the car had to wait for longer. I went back to the car and found a parking ticket in the interim, with an observation period of less than a minute!
How should I fight against this greedy council penalty?