Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: rizlagunner on August 05, 2024, 01:02:29 pm
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Very well done ! They collapsed when you held their hand to the fire with unrefutable facts.
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That is the precedent !
With no searchable Statutory Register at the TPT, we cannot look to find other cases, and it was, I believe, pure chance that this case came to our notice.
An update to this case. I registered the appeal citing the Moran 2018 case. I received a message from the authority with the offer to pay just the crossing fee total of £5 for the two crossings and the PCNs would be settled, and that I could apply for a refund of the previous £5 paid that is being held as unused credit. I have paid the £5 fee and the PCNs have been cancelled. For the forum's benefit the text of my appeal was as follows:
I would like to appeal against the notice of rejection of representations on the basis that the PCN requires me to pay both the penalty charge and road user charge, which has already been paid but not considered within the PCN. As submitted in my representation along with the receipt, the road user charge was paid to Dart Charge on July 15, 2024, which was admittedly after midnight the next day but before the PCNs were issued on July 19, 2024. Therefore using the precedent of Case Number : IA01249-1803, Appeal Date : 22/03/2018 (Mr Luke Moran vs the Secretary of State for Transport) and the legal principle of "identical circumstances should give identical outcomes", the PCN should be cancelled and the already paid road user charges should be accepted as payment for the crossing.
Regulations 7(3)(g) and (f) require the penalty charge notice to state:
(f) the amount of penalty charge that is payable if the penalty charge is paid in full—
(i) within 14 days of the day on which the penalty charge notice is served;
(ii) after the expiry of such 14 day period but within 28 days of the day on which the penalty charge notice is
served;
(iii) after the service of a charge certificate;
(g) the manner in which the penalty charge must be paid and the address to which payment of the penalty charge
must be sent.
The clear intention is to set out clearly the amount of the penalty charge to be paid, and give equally clear instructions as to how to pay the relevant amount.
There is no power in Regulation 7 for the PCN to require the road user charge to be paid in addition to the penalty charge. Nor is there a power for the charging authority to refuse to allocate a payment made for a crossing to that crossing, and hold it, possibly indefinitely, for future use.
The authority acknowledges that I paid the user charge albeit late (notification of rejection of representation attached). Receipt (text message screenshot with transaction ID) acknowledging payment is also attached, dated July 15, 2024 (transaction ID no. 1-526858804) for £5 in total for the two crossings. The PCNs were issued after this date (July 19, 2024) which means that the already received payment should not be required to be paid again as per each PCN, which requires a total payment of £37.50 or £72.50 including the £2.50 road user charge. Hence it is requested that the PCNs be cancelled as falling under procedural impropriety as determined in the Mr Moran case referenced above.
Response from the authority:
The authority can confirm that payment was received outside of the required time frame for these crossings.
The authority investigated the case and determined that the payments referenced by the appellant were made using the payment channel, intended to pay for crossings made since 6am of the day prior (to the time of payment) or as credit for future crossings that are due to be made in the next 12 months.
As this payment was placed as future credit against this vehicle, the authority is unable to use this payment to cover the appealed crossings.
In order to support the appellant, the authority is placing an offer of the payment of £2.50 for each of these PCNs until 23/10/2024.
If the appellant would like to go to the following link, select their PCNs and Select "Pay”.
Or by calling on 0300 1313 120 and holding to speak to an advisor, they will be able to pay the total amount of £5.00 and the PCNs will be cancelled, and no further action will be taken.
We would advise the appellant to have their vehicle registration number, their PCN numbers and a payment card available when making payment.
If the appellant is experiencing issues with this method of payment, can they please leave a message on this portal, prior to the expiry date of the offer and the authority will be able to advise further.
A request for a refund of the unused credit payment can also be made by going to the following link: https://pay-dartford-crossing-charge.service.gov.uk/contact-us and selecting:
- Dart Charge payment
- A general enquiry
and
- Refund
Kind regards,
Many thanks to Incandescent and H C Andersen for pointing me in the right direction and helping me get these PCNs cancelled.
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That is the precedent !
With no searchable Statutory Register at the TPT, we cannot look to find other cases, and it was, I believe, pure chance that this case came to our notice.
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Thanks, I am considering putting an appeal in. Are there any examples of successful appeals based on this precedent?
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Your case is virtually identical to that of a case at the TPT in 2018, under Caroline Sheppard, the Chief Adjudicator at the time, no less !
Case Number : IA01249-1803
Appeal Date : 22/03/2018
Adjudicator's Reasons
Mr Moran paid the £3 crossing charge at 23:20 on 14 January 2018, which was a day later
that the time required for payment. However, on 19 January 2018 Dart Charge sent him a
penalty charge notice stating he should pay either £38 within 14 days or £73 within 28 days.
Mr Moran made representations saying he had paid the crossing charge and produced the
receipt for payment.
Dart Charge rejected the representations saying, “Our investigations show that whilst you did
make payment of the RUC in respect of the above contravention, this payment was not made
until after midnight on the day following your crossing.” They therefore accepted that the
crossing was paid, but they go on to say. “Your late payment(s) will be held as credit against
your vehicle for future crossing(s). You must now make payment for the full amount outstanding
in respect of the above mentioned PCN(s), including the original road user charge, as shown at
the bottom of this notice.”. The amount payable at the end of the Notice of Rejection is £73.
Regulations 7(3)(g) and (f) require the penalty charge notice to state:
(f) the amount of penalty charge that is payable if the penalty charge is paid in full—
(i) within 14 days of the day on which the penalty charge notice is served;
(ii) after the expiry of such 14 day period but within 28 days of the day on which the penalty charge notice is
served;
(iii) after the service of a charge certificate;
(g) the manner in which the penalty charge must be paid and the address to which payment of the penalty charge
must be sent.
The clear intention is to set out clearly the amount of the penalty charge to be paid, and give
equally clear instructions as to how to pay the relevant amount.
While the PCN in this case dealt with the amounts of the penalty charge, according to when
they would be paid, it also stipulated that:
“In addition to the penalty charge you must also pay the applicable road user charge of £3.”
And the PCN further required Mr Moran to pay £38 or £73 (the relevant penalty charge with
£3 added), without an option to pay just the penalty charge.
There is no power in Regulation 7 for the PCN to require the road user charge to be paid in
addition to the penalty charge. Nor is there a power for the charging authority to refuse to
allocate a payment made for a crossing to that crossing, and hold it, possibly indefinitely, for
future use.
It is not in dispute that Mr Moran had paid the £3 crossing charge, as evidenced by his receipt
dated 14 January 2018 for the £3 payment, and accepted by Dart Charge.
It is all very well to set out the amounts of the penalty charge, but the impact and effect of the
PCN is to demand an amount that is in excess of the penalty charge, and it implies that
payment of £38 or £73 is the only amount that will be accepted.
The requirement for Mr Moran to pay the crossing charge in addition to the penalty charge, on
both the PCN and NOR, when he had already paid it, amounts to a procedural impropriety on
the part of the charging authority (known as Dart Charge). That is a ground of appeal that
means that Mr Moran is not liable to pay the penalty charge. He did pay the crossing charge,
albeit a day late, so he is not liable to pay that again.
So, if you want a punt, register an appeal at the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, quote this adjudication on your appeal. The legal principle of "identical circumstances should give identical outcomes" is a good one to also quote. Against this, is the oft-quoted statement that every adjudication stands on its own, but there is nothing to prevent previous cases being cited in support, and here, your circumstances are identical.
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Hi all, can anyone tell me if this case is worth progressing to appeal or am I definitely out of £75? As I read a case earlier where if you have paid the toll (even if late) they cannot collect the road user charge as part of the PCN or the notice of rejection.
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Hi all,
I have received the Notice of Rejection from Dartford. Posting original PCNs as links have expired and the NoR for review, and any suggestions on how to appeal this.
(https://i.imgur.com/WMLHnhO.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/2zzqnEF.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/h4s1Bfx.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/vGcZyHo.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/OICWUgl.jpeg)
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The second part of what you've posted dooms them IMO.
Select the PCN(s) you want to pay or challenge
Reference Number Rime and date of crossing PCN details Total to pay
In each case the Total to pay is £37.50.
IMO it would take more than Clarence Darrow and Perry Mason combined to convince an adjudicator that the authority were not using the prescribed procedure for pursuing a penalty for the recovery of the RUC.
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Basically as soon as I remembered, and as it turns out before they decided to issue the PCN. I have not made any other crossings since then. I have checked on the website and it shows they are holding this £5 as a credit on the account. The text I used is already posted above. The point is I did make the payment, albeit a few days late but life does get in the way. As I rarely use the crossing (probably the second time I have ever crossed) I did not have an auto deduction account set up. Will post the response once I receive it.
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however I made the payment on the third or fourth day for both ways,
Day 6 actually!
Surely you didn't just get on to their website and handover 2*RUC?
Anyway, have you croseed since 9 July and did you pay? If not, then you should have a credit against your account/VRM. Perhaps you would check.
Other than this, there's nothing to do but wait for their response to your reps and, as asked by others, post exactly what you submitted.
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Yes I have sent the appeal. It was largely based on a template posted by the admin in another thread. I opted to receive the receipt via text and it does not mention what crossing specifically, only that they have received £5.00 from me.
As for what is demanded, on the PCN payment page it is the total amount that is required to be paid.
(https://tinypic.host/images/2024/08/07/WhatsApp-Image-2024-08-05-at-23.16.56.jpeg)
(https://tinypic.host/images/2024/08/07/screenshot-pay-dartford-crossing-fine.service.gov.uk-2024.08.07-09_15_59.png)
(https://tinypic.host/images/2024/08/07/screenshot-pay-dartford-crossing-fine.service.gov.uk-2024.08.07-09_15_23.png)
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DART are permitted to recover the RUC, it says so in the Regs and is repeated in their Charging Order.
But neither the regs nor the order permit recovery as if it were a penalty.
IMO, a DART PCN sails close to the wind but does not, other than by implication, require the RUC to be paid. The reference to a CC omits any suggestion that the RUC is recoverable. However, as shown in another current thread the CC itself goes too far IMO by stating that if 'You do not pay' - without any qualification and which could only reasonably be interpreted as referring to Total to Pay which includes the RUC- then 'you will get a court order demanding payment'.
This thread has similarities. The PCN clearly separates the penalty from the RUC and it could be argued by them that this is simply a statement of what's owed i.e. the penalty as a penalty charge and the RUC generally as permitted under the order. Perhaps the OP could find out what is demanded on the authority's website payment page.
In the Caroline Sheppard decsion the authority at that time went so far as to defend its position but whether this remains the same today I don't know.
OP, have you actually sent your appeal? I ask because 'It therefore follows that penalty and user charge fees are not due. I trust you will cancel the referenced PCNs.' Is not a statement of the law as I understand it. The penalty is owing because you failed to pay the RUC in time. It is the RUC which in fairness cannot be owing because you paid it* prior to the PCN being issued.
*- does your receipt show clearly that your payments were in respect of specified crossings? We wouldn't know, we haven't seen them.
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OK, "risktaker", we will cheer you on ! Of course if the matter gets to adjudication, you will be able to quote the relevant case of 2018 back to them. The maximum you'd be risking is, of course, the full PCN penalties, there are no additional costs.
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YOu might phone DART to explain that whilst didn't pay by the DART-imposed deadline, you paid a few days later, so did not rob DART of any income. See if they'll cancel. DART used to be quite forgiving, but is now under a newer, and what seems to be a more ruthless management, no doubt incentivised to get the money rolling in.
There is, however, if you're prepared to risk the full PCN penalty, a known flaw in many road user charge PCNs whereby the toll is added on to the PCN. This is unlawful, but they get away with it because nobody ever takes them to the Traffic Penalty Tribunal. The case is Moran v Secretary of Transport IA1249-1803 13th June 2018, and maybe somewhere on this forum. The administrator will probably know. I have a link but it doesn't work. The relevant regulations are: -
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/1783/regulation/7/made
So I've decided to be a risk taker and have appealed it. The text of my representation is as follows:
Dear Sir/Madam,
I am writing with regard to the two PCNs IO15347227 and IO15347271 issued on 19th July 2024. I wish to appeal on the basis that I made the payment on 15th July 2024, under transaction ID 1-526858804 as per payment receipt received by text, screenshot of which is attached as proof of payment.
It therefore follows that penalty and user charge fees are not due. I trust you will cancel the referenced PCNs.
Sincerely,
I will update this post on the outcome once received.
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Your VRM is on show if that matters to you 🤔
@dyslexicdog
Have you read
https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/
?
I have.
With the information provided, anyone could create problems for the OP with the information that has been provided so my intention was to make OP aware so they could make their own decision on risk.
Overall, I’m here to learn and discuss.
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Your VRM is on show if that matters to you 🤔
@dyslexicdog
Have you read
https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/
?
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Your VRM is on show if that matters to you 🤔
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YOu might phone DART to explain that whilst didn't pay by the DART-imposed deadline, you paid a few days later, so did not rob DART of any income. See if they'll cancel. DART used to be quite forgiving, but is now under a newer, and what seems to be a more ruthless management, no doubt incentivised to get the money rolling in.
There is, however, if you're prepared to risk the full PCN penalty, a known flaw in many road user charge PCNs whereby the toll is added on to the PCN. This is unlawful, but they get away with it because nobody ever takes them to the Traffic Penalty Tribunal. The case is Moran v Secretary of Transport IA1249-1803 13th June 2018, and maybe somewhere on this forum. The administrator will probably know. I have a link but it doesn't work. The relevant regulations are: -
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/1783/regulation/7/made
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I have received two PCNs (coming and going same day) for crossing the Dartford tunnel. Admittedly I forgot to pay the user charge by midnight the next day, however I made the payment on the third or fourth day for both ways, as soon as I remembered. A week later I received the PCNs in the post. There is no mention of the payment I made. Is there any way to challenge these PCNs?
(https://tinypic.host/images/2024/08/05/DC1.jpg)
(https://tinypic.host/images/2024/08/05/DC2.jpg)