Free Traffic Legal Advice

Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: Sol T on August 02, 2024, 03:44:12 pm

Title: Re: PCN (TFL) Red route. Loading
Post by: Sol T on October 20, 2024, 08:22:34 pm
https://app.box.com/s/hiwnj6asyj8bzx7u15u1oqebkso0h1ws

Title: Re: PCN (TFL) Red route. Loading
Post by: cp8759 on October 20, 2024, 08:16:36 pm
@Sol T I can't see any attached letter?
Title: Re: PCN (TFL) Red route. Loading
Post by: Sol T on October 20, 2024, 07:54:11 pm
Hi @cp8759 and all,

I am pleased to inform you that the attached letter confirms the cancellation of the PCN, thanks to your guidance and support.

I am truly grateful for your assistance and would like to use the original penalty amount to improve this website and further support this cause, which helps so many. Please advise.

Kind regards
Title: Re: PCN (TFL) Red route. Loading
Post by: H C Andersen on September 02, 2024, 11:22:49 am
OP, where is this?

The evidence of the unloading is an email of the product which is obviously heavy weight and a SMS message to collect it from the post office.

It might be in the broken links earlier in the thread.
Title: Re: PCN (TFL) Red route. Loading
Post by: Sol T on September 01, 2024, 11:41:46 pm
@cp8759 thank you very much. Your help is greatly appreciated!!

Will keep you updated on this.
Title: Re: PCN (TFL) Red route. Loading
Post by: cp8759 on September 01, 2024, 11:29:10 pm
Draft reps:

Dear Transport for London,

I challenge liability on the ground that the alleged contravention did not occur. I stopped my vehicle in a red route bay for the purposes of collecting a heavy parcel, the bay in question allows loading at all times as long as a vehicle is not stopped in excess of 20 minutes.

Having reviewed the video, my vehicle comes into view at 16:48:56 and remains in view until 16:54:08 when the video cuts out. At this time I was in the queue at the post office situated right next to this bay, there was a long queue and only a few tills were open.

The percel contained a computer and a printer, the parcel was therefore bulky and heavy and required the use of a vehicle to be collected, I attach the confirmation email for my purchase and a screenshot of a text message confirming that the parcel was ready to be collected from the post office.

In light of the above I was entitled to stop within the parking bay and I did not exceed the permitted loading time of 20 minutes, it follows that the alleged contravention did not occur.

Yours faithfully,


Make the representation via https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/challenge-a-pcn and take a screenshot of the confirmation page.
Title: Re: PCN (TFL) Red route. Loading
Post by: Sol T on September 01, 2024, 11:22:26 pm
PC and a Printer
Title: Re: PCN (TFL) Red route. Loading
Post by: cp8759 on September 01, 2024, 11:21:32 pm
@Sol T what was in the parcel you were collecting?
Title: Re: PCN (TFL) Red route. Loading
Post by: Sol T on September 01, 2024, 11:14:57 pm
@cp8759

See original footage: https://app.box.com/s/ghpo76l12v3x33tg1r4tto6v8ejbw7fp

Many thanks
Title: Re: PCN (TFL) Red route. Loading
Post by: Sol T on September 01, 2024, 11:04:36 pm
Apologies @cp8759, it takes time to upload, will post it in a few minutes. Thank you
Title: Re: PCN (TFL) Red route. Loading
Post by: cp8759 on September 01, 2024, 10:38:24 pm
@Sol T please just upload the original mkv file from TFL, I'm sure that laptop you were filming can connect to dropbox.
Title: Re: PCN (TFL) Red route. Loading
Post by: Sol T on September 01, 2024, 10:34:40 pm
Apologies.

Try this one, I recorded once again.


https://app.box.com/s/vtif8aw99t9bzsoptecsj6a4xlhbel4p
Title: Re: PCN (TFL) Red route. Loading
Post by: cp8759 on September 01, 2024, 10:29:51 pm
Broken link?

(https://i.imgur.com/NlY77sw.png)
Title: Re: PCN (TFL) Red route. Loading
Post by: Sol T on September 01, 2024, 10:27:05 pm
See footage https://app.box.com/s/lq2dtsla7zy8xa8vj3v4lbixww016bg6

It was most probably more than 10 min but that’s what TFL recorded, I was probably 15-20 min the queue was very long and few tills open. The package was very heavy that I had to go into the back to collect from their storage area.

Many thanks again @cp8759
Title: Re: PCN (TFL) Red route. Loading
Post by: cp8759 on September 01, 2024, 10:01:16 pm
@Sol T could you upload the CCTV to dropbox, google drive or similar? We will need it to request the make and model of the CCTV camera, which would be useful to investigate whether TFL has the proper authorisation in place to use that camera for parking enfocement.

In the meantime we need a detailed account from you to justify the 10 minutes seen in the footage. Was there a queue at the post office? Were you held up for some other reason? That is the sort of detail that really must go into the representation.
Title: Re: PCN (TFL) Red route. Loading
Post by: Sol T on September 01, 2024, 09:58:13 pm
Thanks @cp8759 for your help.

I can’t post the footage as it was sent through a CD, the footage is short it is roughly 10 minutes it just shows the car parked in the loading bay. No parking or unloading is in the video.

The evidence of the unloading is an email of the product which is obviously heavy weight and a SMS message to collect it from the post office.

Many thanks.
Title: Re: PCN (TFL) Red route. Loading
Post by: cp8759 on September 01, 2024, 09:48:22 pm
@Sol T this should be reasonably straightforward, but please could you post the video and also tell us what evidence you have of loading a heavy parcel? As long as the evidence is sound, the outcome of this should be a foregone conclusion, loading isn't just for businesses and covers private individuals as long as the objects being unloaded are heavy / difficult to carry.

Please note you statutory deadline to make representations is midnight tonight so this is urgent.

Also tell us how long you were taking this parcel to the post office, how long the queue was etc.

Most up-to-date photo of the sign: https://maps.app.goo.gl/USaPGyZQfVu4i1qDA
Title: Re: Update- PCN (TFL) Red route. Loading
Post by: Sol T on September 01, 2024, 09:41:56 pm
Thank you, @Incandescent and everyone,

The sign at the location clearly says red route and no stopping allowed, except for loading for up to 20 minutes, without specifying whether this applies only to domestic or commercial vehicles.

As advised, I requested the footage from TFL, and they provided a DVD showing my vehicle. However, the footage does not include the loading time or parking nor does it prove that I exceeded the 20-minute loading allowance.

What should my next steps be in challenging this? What should I include in my response?

I have evidence of a heavy load being collected from the post office.

Your advice would be greatly appreciated.
Title: Re: PCN (TFL) Red route. Loading
Post by: Incandescent on August 05, 2024, 11:01:06 am
Unless a sign says "Goods Vehicle Loading Only", then anybody, private or business can load/unload.
Title: Re: PCN (TFL) Red route. Loading
Post by: Sol T on August 05, 2024, 10:56:26 am
Thank you for your advice.

I have requested a copy of the footage.

Just curious whether loading is only exempt for commercial and business purposes such as deliveries etc, or the loading exemption is also for individuals who are carrying or dropping off large weighs?
Title: Re: PCN (TFL) Red route. Loading
Post by: Incandescent on August 04, 2024, 07:39:43 pm
Best as SFM says, ask for the video. First off that kicks the PCN into touch for a couple of weeks, and allows more careful examination.

Do you have details of weight and bulk of the parcel ? You should claim loading, but's let wait for the video. Once they have committed to sending it out, mark you diary 10 days ahead and if video hasn't turned up, submit reps on the basis of loading, giving details of the parcel to be loaded.
Title: Re: PCN (TFL) Red route. Loading
Post by: stamfordman on August 04, 2024, 04:17:10 pm
What were you collecting.

You can ask TFL for the video which may show you loading it.

The location helpfully says o/s Post Office.

(https://i.ibb.co/nmLbfcD/Screenshot-2024-08-04-at-16-15-31.png)
Title: Re: PCN (TFL) Red route. Loading
Post by: Sol T on August 04, 2024, 03:52:53 pm
Can someone please help me with this.


Many thanks.
Title: Re: PCN. Red route. Loading
Post by: John U.K. on August 02, 2024, 04:40:11 pm
For meaningful advice please to have a read of
https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/

and post up here both sides of the unredacted PCN and a GSV link to the location.
Title: PCN (TFL) Red route. Loading
Post by: Sol T on August 02, 2024, 03:44:12 pm
Hi all,

I’ve received a PCN for parking at a loading bay while collecting a very large parcel from the Post Office. I was there a short time.

PCN: GX17312478
Reg:NX63ZPZ
Egerton road N16.

The signage clearly says no parking exempt loading max 20 min.

Location: https://maps.app.goo.gl/bGtzM7kgGzkmRcEB8?g_st=ic

Images: https://1drv.ms/f/s!AinsWFn-YrmRiTnMmFMKdvyC1DcR

Many thanks for your help and advice.
Regards.