Free Traffic Legal Advice

Live cases legal advice => Private parking tickets => Topic started by: Snudge88 on August 02, 2024, 02:13:11 pm

Title: Re: Norwich Traffic Control PCN - Unauthorised Parking - St Anne's Quarter, Norwich
Post by: DWMB2 on January 08, 2026, 01:28:29 pm
You can order a transcript of the hearing (or just the judgement part), there is a cost for this - Guidance for requesting a transcript (https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/order-a-transcript-of-court-or-tribunal-proceedings-form-ex107/guidance-for-requesting-a-transcript)
Title: Re: Norwich Traffic Control PCN - Unauthorised Parking - St Anne's Quarter, Norwich
Post by: Snudge88 on January 08, 2026, 01:14:21 pm
Is there any way of getting hold of the Judge's rationale in writing, or is this not applicable at this level?
Title: Re: Norwich Traffic Control PCN - Unauthorised Parking - St Anne's Quarter, Norwich
Post by: DWMB2 on January 08, 2026, 01:12:44 pm
You'd generally get a judgement order, although this usually just says the amount you owe to whom and by when.
Title: Re: Norwich Traffic Control PCN - Unauthorised Parking - St Anne's Quarter, Norwich
Post by: Snudge88 on January 08, 2026, 11:01:04 am
Will I receive a written judgment?
Title: Re: Norwich Traffic Control PCN - Unauthorised Parking - St Anne's Quarter, Norwich
Post by: DWMB2 on January 08, 2026, 10:55:40 am
That's the part that surprised me - adverse judgements can happen, but unreasonable conduct is very unusual, due to the high bar that you mention. It's hard to see your conduct as meeting that threshold, unless you walked into the courtroom and acted the pillock, which I very much doubt.

County Court decisions can be appealed, if you feel strongly enough, but I personally wouldn't go down that route without professional advice, and there is always the risk that by doing so you throw good money after bad. If you did, Contestor Legal Services (https://contestorlegal.co.uk/) seem to have had some good results in the private parking field (ironically their CEO used to work for BW Legal before turning to the good side), but I don't have any direct experience of them, so don't take this as a personal recommendation!

Sorry we couldn't help you get a positive result on this occasion. One part of the process we can't help with is the judge on the day.
Title: Re: Norwich Traffic Control PCN - Unauthorised Parking - St Anne's Quarter, Norwich
Post by: Snudge88 on January 08, 2026, 10:50:10 am
That's a real shame, and quite a surpruise - you seem to have very much fallen foul of 'judge bingo' - there are some good ones and some crap ones.

The 'unreasonable conduct' premium is the real kicker.

I thought that the bar for this at Small Claims level is exceedingly high, and very much reserved for non-compliance with directions? I seem to have been deemed unreasonable for choosing to challenge the claim based on a fairly solid prior judgment?
Title: Re: Norwich Traffic Control PCN - Unauthorised Parking - St Anne's Quarter, Norwich
Post by: DWMB2 on January 08, 2026, 10:41:58 am
That's a real shame, and quite a surpruise - you seem to have very much fallen foul of 'judge bingo' - there are some good ones and some crap ones.
Title: Re: Norwich Traffic Control PCN - Unauthorised Parking - St Anne's Quarter, Norwich
Post by: Snudge88 on January 08, 2026, 10:35:45 am
Well that was a spectacular waste of time/money.

NTC's claim was allowed, along with their representation costs of £150 as the judge ruled me to have acted unreasonably.

Judge was completely dismissive and arrogant, and seemed to take extreme umbrage at my pointing out that BW Legal had served their bundle late and inccurately. It very much seemed that he'd already arrived at his decision before we even entered the room.

To summarise his points:

The photographs in the Witness Statement demonstrated a period of parking.

No evidence that Eden Moore had asserted conduct of litigation.

Claims that claim was inaccurately pleaded were simply incorrect.

Contract was formed as the documents and notice make it clear that the mere act of parking was acceptance of the terms.

PoFA fully complied with - simple breach of contract by parking where not entitled. Stationary vehicle with no driver was sufficient.

Brennan irrelevant and non-binding.

Valid contract with landowner.

My documents and evidence were entirely at odds with those provided by the claimant, and therefore no weight attached to them.

14 days now to pay £432.
Title: Re: Norwich Traffic Control PCN - Unauthorised Parking - St Anne's Quarter, Norwich
Post by: DWMB2 on January 08, 2026, 10:06:14 am
Or better still, have the numbers of the relevant paragraphs of Brennan to hand to refer them to.
Title: Re: Norwich Traffic Control PCN - Unauthorised Parking - St Anne's Quarter, Norwich
Post by: InterCity125 on January 08, 2026, 09:06:44 am
So I re-read the Decision in Brennan a couple of times and I'm positive that the Judge's comments destroy BW's comments on Period of Parking.


In essence the Judge sets out what could now be considered to be the minimum requirement in terms of the information which must be included in the NtD / NtK in order to meet the requitements of PoFA (Period of Parking) - BW are trying to circumvent that minimum requirement by suggesting that a particular boiler plate wording can replace the information which the Judge says is required to satisfy the minimum requirement of 'Period of Parking'.

The Decision is also helpful to your case when read as a whole because the Judge explains why the previous Judge got it wrong - some of those wrongs are being repeated in BW's assertions - if you can get the Judge to read the whole Decision then he or she will soon see that.

Title: Re: Norwich Traffic Control PCN - Unauthorised Parking - St Anne's Quarter, Norwich
Post by: InterCity125 on January 08, 2026, 08:37:59 am
Brennan was an Appeal Court Judgement and the Judge's comments in that case would almost certainly challenge what BW are saying with regard to their stated case. Their stated case could well be just a previous County Court claim.
Title: Re: Norwich Traffic Control PCN - Unauthorised Parking - St Anne's Quarter, Norwich
Post by: Snudge88 on January 08, 2026, 07:28:42 am
Thanks all, for all your help so far.

A couple of quick questions on the morning of the hearing - more than appreciate if this is far too short notice for any substantive answers:

Title: Re: Norwich Traffic Control PCN - Unauthorised Parking - St Anne's Quarter, Norwich
Post by: InterCity125 on January 07, 2026, 04:54:12 pm
The BW rep is likely to be a local rep rather than someone directly from BW.

It's highly unlikely that the rep they send is the same person who signed their WS.

If you can, it's always worth mentioning at the start that you are really disappointed that the claimant has not sent along their witness. Point out that their legal rep is now presenting (at least) third hand hearsay evidence - point out that you had a number of questions which you wanted to ask the witness - point out that their non-attendance puts both you and the court at a disadvantage as there were bound to be questions which the Judge also might wish to ask.

Don't labour the points - just put them across politely.



You have a really strong defence - Good luck.
Title: Re: Norwich Traffic Control PCN - Unauthorised Parking - St Anne's Quarter, Norwich
Post by: DWMB2 on January 07, 2026, 03:51:40 pm
If you did email the court now, I'd be surprised if it would have made its way to the judge before the hearing tomorrow - You should definitely point out that their bundle includes the wrong WS, I'd be minded to do so as a point of order at the start of the hearing. You might want to mention when doing so that the reason you're only mentioning it now is because you only received the bundle from BW Legal yesterday.

Given their bundle includes the wrong WS, make sure you have copies of the correct WS with you on the day (as well as copies of anything else you'll be relying on, of course). One for you, one for BW's rep, if one turns up, and one for the judge.

Good luck and let us know how you get on.
Title: Re: Norwich Traffic Control PCN - Unauthorised Parking - St Anne's Quarter, Norwich
Post by: Snudge88 on January 07, 2026, 03:42:26 pm
Neither party should be ambushing the other with fresh evidence, and most judges would take a dim view of any attempts to do the same. You could if you wish contact BW Legal and point out that you have not received their bundle. Then at the hearing point out that you either haven't received it, or have received it late (if they do send it), putting you at a disadvantage. You can point this out alongside some of the other issues (such as the Mazur point and their late submission of a supplementary WS) as evidence of their ongoing poor conduct in the handling of the case - all of this is particularly important if you win and are discussing costs.

At risk of sounding vague, much depends on the view of the judge on the day, County Court can be unpredictable.

I think one of the key facts in your case is that you have a meritorious defence point, namely that the claimant hasn't proved that a contract was formed in the first place. Even if you leave aside all the (entirely valid) technical points, there can be no money owed if no contract was formed. I'd be keen to ensure that this point does not get lost amidst any protracted debates about any technicalities (after all, as noted, most judges want an easy life).

Thanks DWMB2, I appreciate the help here.

I emailed BW Legal, who responded with the Trial Bundle and a claim that this was sent to me on 29/12/2025.  I've asked them to forward to me the email they allege to have sent, so that I can see if they've mis-spelled my email address or suchlike.

I've immediately noted that the Trial Bundle they have prepared uses my pre-Mazur St Helens witness statement, and not the current one which includes a discussion of the Eden Moore issue.  I shall raise this at the outset tomorrow, to ensure that the Judge relies upon my up-to-date Witness Statement, unless you think that this needs anything else doing here and now.

The comment on the ordering and prominence of the points is appreciated as well.  By my understanding my hierarchy tomorrow should be:

1)  Eden Moore's witness statements are hearsay.  She is not the claimant and has no detailed knowledge of the site or matter, and is not present for cross-examination.  As such respectfully request that little or no weight should be given to her evidence.

2)  No proof of contract formed.  BW Legal unable to prove the existence of a suitable consideration period, alongside missing/illegible entry signs to the car park.

3)  Even if a contract was formed, the NTD and NTK do not comply with Schedule 4 PoFA 2012 in that they state a single point in time for the alleged contravention, rather than a period of parking.  This prevents Keeper Liability and, therefore, I cannot be held liable as keeper, have no obligation to name the driver, and have not done so.  Persuasive precedent being Brennan.

4)  Wholly inappropriate to make the assumption that Keeper was Driver, regardless of circumstances.  See Edward.

5)  Notwithstanding the above, poor conduct by BW Legal throughout, including but not limited to:

Thanks again!

Update - I also notice that the annotations from the plan on the final page of my WS are missing from the Trial Bundle, which merely contains an un-amended copy of the plan.
Title: Re: Norwich Traffic Control PCN - Unauthorised Parking - St Anne's Quarter, Norwich
Post by: DWMB2 on January 07, 2026, 03:14:45 pm
Neither party should be ambushing the other with fresh evidence, and most judges would take a dim view of any attempts to do the same. You could if you wish contact BW Legal and point out that you have not received their bundle. Then at the hearing point out that you either haven't received it, or have received it late (if they do send it), putting you at a disadvantage. You can point this out alongside some of the other issues (such as the Mazur point and their late submission of a supplementary WS) as evidence of their ongoing poor conduct in the handling of the case - all of this is particularly important if you win and are discussing costs.

At risk of sounding vague, much depends on the view of the judge on the day, County Court can be unpredictable.

I think one of the key facts in your case is that you have a meritorious defence point, namely that the claimant hasn't proved that a contract was formed in the first place. Even if you leave aside all the (entirely valid) technical points, there can be no money owed if no contract was formed. I'd be keen to ensure that this point does not get lost amidst any protracted debates about any technicalities (after all, as noted, most judges want an easy life).
Title: Re: Norwich Traffic Control PCN - Unauthorised Parking - St Anne's Quarter, Norwich
Post by: Snudge88 on January 07, 2026, 12:39:00 pm
You've seen their WS, I'm correct in assuming? Just not the full 'bundle'

Yes, that's right. The WS sent to me in December comprised their original WS, the supplementary one provided after the original St Helens deadline for service, and their skeleton argument. Nothing I'd not seen before.

My concern is, if they have deliberately not served the trial bundle on me, that there may be unseen contents that they hope to ambush me with, in the hope that non-service will prevent me from consulting here.

Ideally I'll need time to do a reasonable side-by-side comparison of their WS bundle with the trial bundle.

On another question - how serious is the Eden Moore issue with respect to Mazur? Is it bad enough to render their litigation invalid, so should be mentioned from the outset with a respectful request for the matter to be set aside in light of the illegal conduct?
Title: Re: Norwich Traffic Control PCN - Unauthorised Parking - St Anne's Quarter, Norwich
Post by: DWMB2 on January 07, 2026, 12:15:10 pm
How fatal will it be to tomorrow's hearing if I choose to wait and raise the non-service at the start of the hearing?
Probably depends on the judge. There's often more 'leeway' in the Small Claims track, although some judges rightly expect professional law firms to be doing things by the book.

You've seen their WS, I'm correct in assuming? Just not the full 'bundle'
Title: Re: Norwich Traffic Control PCN - Unauthorised Parking - St Anne's Quarter, Norwich
Post by: Snudge88 on January 07, 2026, 12:12:08 pm
I've just been and spoken with the Court in person.

They have confirmed that BW Legal have provided them with a Trial Bundle, so it is clear that they have simply not provided me with a copy.

Court advice was to either raise it at the hearing tomorrow, or contact BW Legal directly today.

Any suggestions as to the best course of action here? How fatal will it be to tomorrow's hearing if I choose to wait and raise the non-service at the start of the hearing?

Or, in the interests of getting this wrapped up ASAP, should I contact BW Legal today and hope I get something this afternoon?
Title: Re: Norwich Traffic Control PCN - Unauthorised Parking - St Anne's Quarter, Norwich
Post by: Snudge88 on January 06, 2026, 11:15:52 am
I've not received any further communication from BW Legal in respect of a Trial Bundle.

The directions appear to be fairly explicit on this matter:

Directions on Filing of Trial Bundles, if applicable

Failure to comply with these directions may result in the matter being removed from the list without further warning:

The parties should seek to agree an indexed, paginated electronic trial bundle and any indexed paginated electronic authorities' bundle; and

One party (which shall be the Claimant in default of agreement otherwise) shall email the electronic bundle to the Court at [COURT EMAIL] and the other parties no less than 3 days and no more than 7 days before the hearing date.

A hard copy bundle would be required for any trial listed as an attended 'in person' hearing/  All trial bundles are to be filed at the Court where the trial is to be held at least 3 clear days before the trial date.  Any hard copy bundles not taken away after a hearing will be destroyed.


Unless I'm misinterpreting things, a failure of BW Legal to have served me with a Trial Bundle by CoB yesterday appears to be a fairly significant breach of the directions?

Unless this is the sort of breach that would be significant enough to have the claim thrown out for non-compliance, I'm more than happy to receive a bundle today/tomorrow, as I shall still have enough time to go through it and compare/contrast with the already-submitted Witness Statements, as I'm just keen to draw a line under this and move on.

What I don't want is to be presented with a bundle at 9:55am on Thursday morning, with the risk that there may be material differences between the bundle and the Witness Statements.
Title: Re: Norwich Traffic Control PCN - Unauthorised Parking - St Anne's Quarter, Norwich
Post by: b789 on January 02, 2026, 11:52:59 pm
You have already done what you are required to do. You filed your bundle by the deadline and you have the Court’s automated confirmation that it was received. That is the key point.

If the Claimant now files anything after the deadline, treat it as late evidence. If you receive late material, you should email the Court and BW Legal immediately to object to reliance on it, stating that your bundle was filed in time and accepted, and that you object to any late evidence being admitted or, in the alternative, you invite the Court to attach little or no weight to it.

If you receive nothing further before the hearing, you do not need to do anything else. You simply attend and rely on the bundle already filed.

If BW Legal file a “hearing bundle” (because the directions say the Claimant must file an agreed bundle 3–7 days before the hearing), it will usually just be a paginated compilation of the claim form/PoC, their documents, and your WS/bundle. Do not assume it is “agreed” merely because they filed it. If it omits your documents or contains extra material not previously served, email the Court and BW Legal straight away to record that it is not agreed and to object to any new or missing items.

For the hearing itself, preparation is simply:

1. Know your own witness statement and exhibits.
2. Mark the pages/exhibits you will take the Judge to for each key point.
3. Be ready to point out anything the Claimant relies on that is hearsay, unsupported, or late.
Title: Re: Norwich Traffic Control PCN - Unauthorised Parking - St Anne's Quarter, Norwich
Post by: Snudge88 on January 02, 2026, 12:15:00 pm
Happy New Year, all.

My updated WS was filed with the Court and BW Legal on Christmas Eve, and I received an automated response from the Court to confirm that it had been received.

Is there anything else I need to be doing now?

I note that the directions state that a bundle is to be agreed between the parties and then filed by The Claimant between three and seven days prior to the hearing date.  I assume that BW Legal will not be seeking to 'agree' a bundle with me, and that I should expect to receive the bundle by email by CoB on Monday 5th January?

Should I be wary of any 'surprises' within the bundle, or will it broadly be a compilation of the various claim documents and the two Witness Statements?

As for preparation for the hearing, is it just a case of making sure that I'm fully-conversant with my own witness statement, and able to put myself in a position whereby I can put the various individual points to the Judge?
Title: Re: Norwich Traffic Control PCN - Unauthorised Parking - St Anne's Quarter, Norwich
Post by: Snudge88 on December 23, 2025, 09:32:20 pm
Thanks b789 - I appreciate the extra context here.

I've prepared everything including your amendment to the original WS, and have timetabled it to email to the Court and BW Legal at 1555hrs tomorrow afternoon, as I shall be away from my computer from about midday.

Please do let me know in the meantime if there are any other amendments you consider to be useful/necessary, and I can always make those changes tomorrow morning.
Title: Re: Norwich Traffic Control PCN - Unauthorised Parking - St Anne's Quarter, Norwich
Post by: b789 on December 21, 2025, 04:51:36 pm
You should not add Mazur as an exhibit in the same way as Brennan and Edward.

Brennan and Edward are being used in your bundle because they are 'persuasive' county court appeal decisions/transcripts and you are asking the judge to be 'persuaded' by their reasoning. Mazur is different. It is a High Court decision and is binding on the county court, so it is not something you need to “prove” by exhibiting it in the way you would a persuasive authority.

If you want to be belt-and-braces, you can cite Mazur in the witness statement or in a short case list/skeleton with the full neutral citation and the proposition you rely on, but it is not necessary to attach the full judgment as evidence.

The neutral citation you would use is:

Mazur and Stuart v Charles Russell Speechlys LLP [2025] EWHC 2341 (KB) (High Court, King’s Bench Division; judgment 16 September 2025).

The core proposition (the “legal point” you are relying on from Mazur) is essentially:

“Conduct of litigation” is a reserved legal activity under the Legal Services Act 2007, and it must be carried out by an authorised (or otherwise properly exempt) person.
Supervision by a solicitor does not, by itself, entitle an unauthorised fee-earner/paralegal to “conduct the litigation”. In other words, you cannot cure lack of entitlement simply by adding “under supervision”.

So, when you’re framing it for the court, the “proposition” you extract is along the lines of:

“The Claimant’s witness (a BW Legal paralegal) expressly asserts that she has “conduct of the litigation” under supervision, but the conduct of litigation is a reserved legal activity and, as confirmed in Mazur and Stuart v Charles Russell Speechlys LLP [2025] EWHC 2341 (KB), it cannot lawfully be carried out by an unauthorised person merely because they are supervised.”
Title: Re: Norwich Traffic Control PCN - Unauthorised Parking - St Anne's Quarter, Norwich
Post by: Snudge88 on December 21, 2025, 01:28:49 pm
Thanks b789 - I shall make those amendments, and await anything else you might wish to advise.

Should I also add a copy of the Mazur judgment as an addtional item of evidence, in the same way as Brennan and Edward?
Title: Re: Norwich Traffic Control PCN - Unauthorised Parking - St Anne's Quarter, Norwich
Post by: b789 on December 19, 2025, 04:30:52 pm
I'm still reviewing everything but because Mazur was published after the initial WS was drafted, I have a couple of amendments you must make to your bundle.

You need to add a new paragraph #8 with its own sub-heading and edit all subsequent paragraph numbers accordingly as follows:

Quote
Claimant’s witness asserts conduct of litigation

8. The Claimant’s witness, a BW Legal paralegal, states at paragraph 1 of her witness statement (and repeats the same statement again in the Claimant’s later ‘additional evidence’ statement), signed under a statement of truth, that she has ‘conduct of the litigation’ subject to supervision. The conduct of litigation is a reserved legal activity under the Legal Services Act 2007. If that statement is correct, it describes an arrangement that is not permitted for an unauthorised person and is capable of amounting to a criminal offence under the Act; if it is not correct, then the Claimant has nonetheless twice advanced a plainly inaccurate assertion under a statement of truth. In either case, the Court is respectfully invited to treat this as materially undermining the reliability and weight of the Claimant’s evidence and submissions; and, further, to note that in Mazur & Anor v Charles Russell Speechlys LLP [2025] EWHC 2341 (KB) the High Court reaffirmed that an unauthorised person cannot ‘conduct litigation’ even under supervision.

Also, you need to edit every page that has a court header from "St Helens" to "Norwich".

Get on with that and I will come back with any more changes that may be required before you resubmit your bundle to Norwich. You must NOT submit anything until the deadline at 4pm on Wednesday 24th December. If you want to submit it to the court as a physical bundle, then by all means do so but ideally on 24th December. You must also submit it to the claimant through BW Legal but you can do that electronically and you should definitely leave that until 4pm on 24th December. I'll hazard a guess that there will be no one to go through it until at least the 29th, if not the 2nd or even the 5th January.
Title: Re: Norwich Traffic Control PCN - Unauthorised Parking - St Anne's Quarter, Norwich
Post by: DWMB2 on December 19, 2025, 01:27:10 pm
Quote
The 'Save as to Costs' nature of the letter feels interesting, as it's clearly an attempt to double-down on their belief that they will win at court
I'm not sure I'd read too much into that. It is entirely normal for settlement offers to be made on a without prejudice save as to costs basis.
Title: Re: Norwich Traffic Control PCN - Unauthorised Parking - St Anne's Quarter, Norwich
Post by: Snudge88 on December 19, 2025, 01:09:53 pm
A quick update on this one.

BW Legal's court bundle has arrived with me today.  It is simply a re-print of the previous bundle from June, prepared in anticipation of the St Helens hearing, with the later additional witness statement from 27th June appended to the end.  I've not uploaded it to the Google Drive link, as it is identical to the previous two documents, which I have already uploaded.

Perhaps noteworthy is that neither of Eden Moore's witness statements have been amended, and both state that she has conduct of the matter under the supervision of her principal.

I also received a response to the Drop Hands letter under separate cover, marked Without Prejudice Save as to Costs which I have uploaded as 'BW Legal WP Offer'.  As a brief summary:


The 'Save as to Costs' nature of the letter feels interesting, as it's clearly an attempt to double-down on their belief that they will win at court, and create a sense of added jeopardy to try and pressure me into paying them £180.

Given the jeopardy that it will also create for them, doubly so with the 'unauthorised conduct' issue, does this increase the possibility of a last minute discontinuance by the claimant?
Title: Re: Norwich Traffic Control PCN - Unauthorised Parking - St Anne's Quarter, Norwich
Post by: Snudge88 on December 15, 2025, 07:52:17 pm
Hi b789

I've re-uploaded everything to Google Drive, which should now be visible at this address:

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1Pl6JWUnidWTdy-QyQpqKjj-exgYbMKn9?usp=drive_link

Everything substantive should be there, including the initial back-and-forth with BWLegal which is referred to in my defence.  The other relevant documents (NTD, NTK, Claim Form, and their N180) are in a single document bundle.

This should cover off everything that we've done so far, but please let me know if there's anything missing.

The Witness Statement dated 10/06/2025 was submitted in anticipation of the St Helens hearing, so BWLegal will already have had sight of this.

Thanks again for all your assistance so far.
Title: Re: Norwich Traffic Control PCN - Unauthorised Parking - St Anne's Quarter, Norwich
Post by: b789 on December 15, 2025, 05:00:11 pm
As no previous images exist due to the site owner deleting them all, I need to see all the original documents and what I provided to you. Also, please give me all the relevant dates for the hearing.

I am about to begin a two day journey tomorrow and will likely only have limited comms for the next 3 days at least and I will be 6 hours behind you until some time early to mid January, so if I don't answer immediately, I will be trying to catch up over the course of the next week.

There should not be anything that needs updating but without seeing it all, it is difficult to answer. What you DO NOT do is send anything until the actual deadline. However, if it was already sent for the previous hearing, there should not need to be any thing else sent.
Title: Re: Norwich Traffic Control PCN - Unauthorised Parking - St Anne's Quarter, Norwich
Post by: Snudge88 on December 15, 2025, 02:52:55 pm
Just in terms of checking my 'onward actions', what do I need to do, and what should I expect over the course of the next three weeks?

I note that the main Direction is that "Each party must deliver to the other party and to the court office copies of all documents on which that party intends to rely at the hearing no later than fourteen days before the hearing.".

For my part I have my paginated bundle that was originally prepared and submitted for the vacated St Helens hearing, comprising:



Other than making the necessary amendments to the bundle to reflect the move to Norwich, are there any other amendments I need to make to my own bundle, before re-submitting it on or before 25th December?

(n.b. Will the existence of the Christmas holiday impact upon certain service dates?)

I assume that BWLegal will also be submitting their own revised bundle, and would guess that I may receive it a little before the deadline owing to their likely Christmas shut-down.  I take it that we're expecting it to be the same but for, perhaps, the inclusion of their supplemental evidence dated 24th June and, potentially, being amended to 'cure' the Eden Moore situation?

Is there anything else I need to be doing in the interim?
Title: Re: Norwich Traffic Control PCN - Unauthorised Parking - St Anne's Quarter, Norwich
Post by: Snudge88 on December 12, 2025, 11:55:19 am
Thanks, b789.

Just called in to the Court whilst I was passing, and spoke to a helpful chap on the back office.

Confirmed what you said about payments transferring, but this hadn't been noted until I raised it with him.

Payment has been transferred over, and marked as paid. Onwards we go...
Title: Re: Norwich Traffic Control PCN - Unauthorised Parking - St Anne's Quarter, Norwich
Post by: b789 on December 12, 2025, 11:29:24 am
You should continue on the basis that the hearing is going ahead and the claim remains live unless and until you receive formal written confirmation that it has ended. An N279 (Notice of Discontinuance) is one way the claim ends, but it is not the only way. The claim can also end by the court striking it out, including where a directions order states that failure to pay the hearing fee by a specified deadline will result in strike-out. In practice, youshould not stop preparing simply because BW Legal go quiet or because no further letters arrive. Administrative delay is common and the absence of correspondence is not reliable evidence that the claim has been discontinued or struck out.

On the hearing fee point, an earlier payment made for a vacated hearing does usually remain attached to the same claim, and in many cases HMCTS will treat that fee as paid for the re-listed final hearing. However, it is not safe to assume it automatically “transfers” in the sense that the new hearing centre will necessarily show it as satisfied. When a hearing is vacated and the matter is re-listed at a different hearing centre, payments can sometimes sit on the court file as paid but not properly allocated to the new hearing date, or the local court record can still show the fee as outstanding until someone manually reconciles it. The practical consequence is that the only reliable approach is to verify what the court system currently shows for the hearing fee status on that claim.

The correct immediate step is therefore to contact the court to obtain explicit confirmation of the fee position, not to speculate. Telephone contact first thing in the morning is usually the most effective. If Norwich court routes civil enquiries to the National Administration Centre, then you should ask that centre to check the fee status on the claim record and confirm whether the hearing fee is recorded as paid, and if so, on what date, and whether it is treated as satisfying the fee requirement for the upcoming Norwich hearing. You should make a clear contemporaneous note of the date and time of the call, the name or identifier of the person spoken to if given, and exactly what was said the system shows. If email updates are refused, which is common, you should still ask for a note to be placed on the court file recording the enquiry and the advice given.

In short, you proceed as though trial is happening unless you receive an N279 or a court order or written confirmation that the claim has been struck out or vacated. The hearing fee question must be resolved by checking the court record because earlier payment often applies to the same claim but cannot be treated as automatically reconciled to a re-listed hearing without confirmation.
Title: Re: Norwich Traffic Control PCN - Unauthorised Parking - St Anne's Quarter, Norwich
Post by: Snudge88 on December 12, 2025, 10:34:10 am
Thanks for the response.

I assume it's a case of playing the system with my responses in order to get through to Norwich, and hoping I get a helpful person on the other end?

My first port of call this morning was to call Norwich, and it directed me to hang up and call the National centre if my call related to a civil case.

Alternatively, I'm able to pop in in person if that's an alternative that would work?
Title: Re: Norwich Traffic Control PCN - Unauthorised Parking - St Anne's Quarter, Norwich
Post by: jfollows on December 12, 2025, 10:27:29 am
Call Norwich first thing in the morning usually the best time. This is one case when telephone makes sense.
Title: Re: Norwich Traffic Control PCN - Unauthorised Parking - St Anne's Quarter, Norwich
Post by: Snudge88 on December 12, 2025, 10:21:33 am
Thanks - called the National Admin Centre who advised that this specific fee had not been paid, but there was a note on file that a fee had been paid back in July. Their advice was to contact Norwich to seek explicit confirmation of the situation.

I emailed Norwich and got an automatic response which basically said 'we're too busy, and will not respond to emails requesting updates'.

I assume that the fee paid was for the now-vacated hearing at St Helens, so the question is whether this is then automatically applied against the Norwich hearing?
Title: Re: Norwich Traffic Control PCN - Unauthorised Parking - St Anne's Quarter, Norwich
Post by: jfollows on December 12, 2025, 09:47:05 am
It would do no harm for you to contact the court and verify the status of this.
Title: Re: Norwich Traffic Control PCN - Unauthorised Parking - St Anne's Quarter, Norwich
Post by: Snudge88 on December 12, 2025, 08:58:13 am
So the deadline for payment of court fees has been and gone. No further contact from BWLegal.

How does the process work from this point? Will I only hear anything now if the court fees were not paid or the claim is subsequently discontinued?
Title: Re: Norwich Traffic Control PCN - Unauthorised Parking - St Anne's Quarter, Norwich
Post by: b789 on October 10, 2025, 05:12:14 pm
They are under no obligation to respond. However, work on the assumption that the hearing is still going to go ahead.
Title: Re: Norwich Traffic Control PCN - Unauthorised Parking - St Anne's Quarter, Norwich
Post by: Snudge88 on October 10, 2025, 04:45:01 pm
Quick update...

Letter sent last Friday (03/10/2025) to two email addresses at BWLegal with which I have previously had correspondence, requesting acknowledgement of receipt.  I've heard absolutely nothing back, which would appear to be most unusual given their usual willingness to respond.

Any thoughts on what this likely means?  Are they scrabbling to fix their screw-up or, more likely, just hoping that I'll go away if they ignore me?

Anything more to do between now and the deadline for payment of court fees?
Title: Re: Norwich Traffic Control PCN - Unauthorised Parking - St Anne's Quarter, Norwich
Post by: Snudge88 on October 03, 2025, 01:42:44 pm
Thanks b789.

I assume from your subsequent post that you have been able to find a copy of the document in question, but I have hosted it here for you:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1LzbFSmL3UhKUuKvy5W-IMDtTQCn0iB6_/view?usp=sharing

As it appears you have already seen, the statement "I have conduct of this action subject to the supervision of my principle" would appear to be a smoking gun, covered in the suspect's fingerprints, next to a signed confession.

I'll get the drop hands offer sent forthwith.
Title: Re: Norwich Traffic Control PCN - Unauthorised Parking - St Anne's Quarter, Norwich
Post by: b789 on October 03, 2025, 12:35:46 pm
You can make a "drop hands" offer to BW Legal that may make them think twice before continuing with this litigation. Send the following letter, without prejudice, and see what they respond with:

Quote
WITHOUT PREJUDICE SAVE AS TO COSTS

[Date]

BW Legal
[Email address shown on their correspondence]
Our Client: Norwich Traffic Control Limited
Claim No: []
Your Ref: []

Dear Sirs,

Drop-hands proposal: discontinue with no order as to costs

Further to your client’s claim, now transferred to Norwich County Court for hearing on 8 January 2026, I invite your client to discontinue the proceedings on a drop-hands basis: each party to bear its own costs, no order as to costs, and no admissions. This offer is open for 7 days from the date of this letter.

Why your client’s case is untenable

1. No contract; no “period of parking” evidenced
Your Notice to Driver / Notice to Keeper records only a single timestamp. There is no period of parking alleged or proved. That is fatal to any case that a contract was formed by conduct: absent an evidenced duration on site, the court cannot be satisfied that any consideration period elapsed or that terms were capable of being read and accepted.

2. PoFA non-compliance (keeper liability cannot arise)
Schedule 4 PoFA paras 7(2)(a) and 8(2)(a) require the notice to “specify the period of parking” to which it relates. Your client’s notices do not. In the persuasive appeal Scott Brennan v Premier Parking Solutions (2023) H6DP632H, HHJ Mitchell held (paras 27–30) that PoFA requires an identifiable period (even a short one), not a mere moment in time. On your own evidence, keeper liability is unavailable.

3. Driver not identified; no presumption
I have not identified the driver. In VCS v Edward (2023) HOKF6C9C, HHJ Gargan at para 35.3 confirmed it is not appropriate to infer that the registered keeper was the driver “on balance of probabilities”—one simply cannot tell. With PoFA unavailable (see 2), the claim fails against the keeper.

4. PAP and pleading conduct
You were put on notice pre-action to supply core material (proper signage proof, legal basis of the £60 add-on, PoFA compliance). The Particulars of Claim remained inadequate (CPR 16.4/PD16), and you attempted to cure defects post-issue via witness/skeleton material. That is procedurally improper and has caused unnecessary cost and court burden.

Conduct of litigation – reserved activity issue (costs relevance)
Your witness statement signed by Ms Eden Moore (paralegal) states—under a Statement of Truth—that she “has conduct of this action” “subject to supervision”. Conduct of litigation is a reserved legal activity (Legal Services Act 2007, ss.12–15). In Mazur v Charles Russell Speechlys LLP [2025] EWHC 2341 (KB), the High Court confirmed that supervision does not authorise an unauthorised person to conduct litigation. Ms Moore’s sworn statement that she “has conduct of this action” is a prima facie admission of unauthorised conduct of litigation; if you proceed, I will rely on this for CPR 27.14(2)(g) costs and reserve my position regarding regulatory escalation.

Commercial reality
Your client now faces (a) a merits failure on PoFA/driver, (b) pleading/PAP points, and (c) a realistic risk of 27.14(2)(g) costs consequences. With the matter listed in Norwich, attendance will likely require either travel or a local advocate, increasing your client’s sunk cost with no realistic prospect of improving the underlying defects.

Offer and costs position
If you accept this drop-hands proposal within 7 days, each party walks away bearing its own costs. If you decline and the claim is discontinued later or dismissed, I will place this letter before the court on the issue of costs only and seek an order under CPR 27.14(2)(g) reflecting your client’s unreasonable conduct, including the reserved-activity point above.

Please confirm by return that the claim will be discontinued, and file/serve a Notice of Discontinuance accordingly.

Yours faithfully,

[Defendant’s name]
[Address for service]
[Email
Title: Re: Norwich Traffic Control PCN - Unauthorised Parking - St Anne's Quarter, Norwich
Post by: b789 on October 03, 2025, 11:32:36 am
There are serious irregularities with the conduct of this by BW Legal, not least by the fact that Eden Moore, a paralegal, has clearly admitted, under a Statement of Truth (SoT) in her WS that she has conduct of the case under supervision of her principal. This is clear evidence of unreasonable conduct and also a serious breach of the Legal Services Act 2007 (LSA). It is a criminal offence for someone to conduct litigation who is unauthorised to do so.

For now, I need to also see the SWS that was sent by BW Legal. Can you please host that for us to see before I give a definitive answer about how to deal with the unreasonable conduct matter.
Title: Re: Norwich Traffic Control PCN - Unauthorised Parking - St Anne's Quarter, Norwich
Post by: Snudge88 on October 02, 2025, 08:32:26 pm
Additionally, having read the precis of Mazur, I had a look back over the case documentation.

BWLegal's N180 form was completed in the name of Rohan Krishnarao, one of the solicitors at BWLegal, although merely signed 'bwlegal', with the claim form also having been completed by Rohan (or, at least, in his name).

All other post-claim documentation is either generically signed 'bwlegal', or has been prepared and signed by a Paralegal by the name of Eden Moore, allegedly 'under the supervision of [her] principle'.

Does this fit the context of the judgment in Mazur, or does the requirement of qualification/authorisation only really apply to the documents that have been completed in Mr Krishnarao's name?
Title: Re: Norwich Traffic Control PCN - Unauthorised Parking - St Anne's Quarter, Norwich
Post by: Snudge88 on October 02, 2025, 08:18:23 pm
As if by magic, a new notice of allocation appeared:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1pbin9X2JQXBqMPpA5A2g15fgkSBHEJ-A/view?usp=sharing

(Forgive the link to the document, the ability to add attachments appears to have gone from here?)

I assume that the previously-submitted bundles still stand, and cannot be added to or amended at this stage?  On which basis, is it now a case of waiting to see whether the court fee is paid by 11th December, and then taking suitable action (or not) depending on whether the matter still appears to be heading to a hearing?
Title: Re: Norwich Traffic Control PCN - Unauthorised Parking - St Anne's Quarter, Norwich
Post by: b789 on September 16, 2025, 05:15:00 pm
Once the claim is transferred to your local county court, MCOL no longer plays any part, which is why you won't see anything on there. You can call your local court and ask for an update.

You can call the court or email them the following to enquiries.norwich.countycourt@justice.gov.uk:

Quote
Subject: FAO: Civil Listings - Claim [number] – Transfer order dated 3 July 2025 – Listing status enquiry

Dear Listing Officer,

I write regarding Claim [number], [Claimant] v [Defendant]. By order dated 3 July 2025 the matter was transferred to the Defendant’s home court for listing. Could you confirm (i) whether the file has been received, (ii) current listing status, and (iii) when Notice of Allocation (N157) is likely to issue? The previous hearing (1 August 2025) was vacated and prior directions rescinded.

I attach the 3 July order for ease.

Yous faithfully,

[Name, address for service, phone]
Attachment: Order 3 July 2025.pdf”
Title: Re: Norwich Traffic Control PCN - Unauthorised Parking - St Anne's Quarter, Norwich
Post by: Snudge88 on September 16, 2025, 04:12:02 pm
Just a quick update on this one, in that there very much has been no update.

I've not heard anything from HMCTS since the acknowledgement that the case was to be transferred to Norwich, nor have I heard anything further from BWLegal.

I've logged on to the MCOL portal, and it seems that the most recent update on there was the allocation of the case to St Helens on 3rd April 2025.

I appreciate that the Courts system is under a lot of pressure with some significant backlogs, but this seems rather protracted even in these circumstances!
Title: Re: Norwich Traffic Control PCN - Unauthorised Parking - St Anne's Quarter, Norwich
Post by: b789 on July 03, 2025, 01:24:59 pm
You now wait for your local court to list the hearing. You will receive an order telling you the date by which submissions must be made. You shouldn't have to resubmit everything as it will have been transferred. However, let's just wait for the notice and then we can see what to expect.

This will have p!ssed BW Legal off no end. It means they won't send anyone down and will either rely on their WS or may hire a local legal rep by the hour to represent them at the hearing, that's if they don't discontinue before.

This is small claims track. Costs are fixed and they cannot claim extra costs, even if you lose unless you behave unreasonably, which you haven't. If, for example, you didn't show up for the hearing without informing the court that you would not be attending, that could be classed as unreasonable behaviour.

The allocation to St Helens for a telephone hearing was very unfair and should never have happened in the first place. This has now been corrected. Patience.
Title: Re: Norwich Traffic Control PCN - Unauthorised Parking - St Anne's Quarter, Norwich
Post by: Snudge88 on July 03, 2025, 12:02:30 pm
Rather than summarising the contents of the letter it may be worth you sharing it with us.

That is quite literally the letter:

"Before [Judge] sitting at [Court].

Upon considering the Defendant's email dated 12 June 2025

IT IS ORDERED THAT

1 - The order of 11 May 2025 is rescinded.
2 - The hearing on 1 August 2025 is vacated.
3 - The matter is transferred to the Defendant's home court for listing."
Title: Re: Norwich Traffic Control PCN - Unauthorised Parking - St Anne's Quarter, Norwich
Post by: DWMB2 on July 03, 2025, 11:51:14 am
Rather than summarising the contents of the letter it may be worth you sharing it with us.
Title: Re: Norwich Traffic Control PCN - Unauthorised Parking - St Anne's Quarter, Norwich
Post by: Snudge88 on July 03, 2025, 11:22:04 am
Quick update...

Letter received from HMCTS this morning, advising that the original order from 11th May has been rescinded, the 1st August hearing vacated, and the matter transferred to my home court for listing.

If the original order has been rescinded, does this mean that we're going to have to go through the whole witness statement process again?  Or will the District Judge at Norwich essentially pick up where St Helens left off, and move straight to a hearing date?

Also, now that the matter will get an in-person hearing here in Norwich, and BW Legal will have to pay for someone to travel down to be present, will this potentially increase the chances of them discontinuing at some point before the new hearing date?
Title: Re: Norwich Traffic Control PCN - Unauthorised Parking - St Anne's Quarter, Norwich
Post by: b789 on June 27, 2025, 02:11:57 pm
Yes, they have missed the deadline. However, don't get into a game of WS ping-pong. When the judge issues the orders after reviewing your request, you will know when and where the hearing is going to take place.

At the hearing you can point out to the judge that the claimants supplementary WS was issued late and is made by a paralegal in the employ of the claimants solicitor and not someone with firsthand knowledge and is should be dismissed.

The judge will not be happy with their messing about. All judges want is a a quiet life. The judge hearing the case will only have seen the bundle maybe 5 or 10 minutes before the hearing. They will not have time to read anything in depth.

They will have a look at the PoC, the defence and then skim the WS for the facts, if they're obvious. The question is, has the claim been made properly? Has the claim been defended properly? Is the claim valid? Has the defendant rebutted the claim properly? Decision will be made after maybe a few questions and that will be it.

In this case, you have to make it clear at the start that the claimants WS is not a true WS as the "witness" is not even employed by the claimant and is not there to be cross examined. There is no cause of action against you as the Keeper because the Notice to Keeper is nt compliant with PoFA 9(2)(a) as there is no period of parking noted, just a single observed time. The persuasive appellate case of Brennan v Premier Parking Solutions makes it clear that a single observation time is not sufficient to satisfy PoFA 9(2)(a).

Additionally, for a contract to be formed, there must be a consideration period. None has been evidenced and therefore there is no evidence of a contract having been formed with the driver.

Those are your main points of defence.
Title: Re: Norwich Traffic Control PCN - Unauthorised Parking - St Anne's Quarter, Norwich
Post by: Snudge88 on June 27, 2025, 01:37:06 pm
I've received a supplementary witness statement from BW Legal this morning.  I assume our position will be that they've missed the boat by quite some time in terms of this being allowed to be admitted?

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Norwich Traffic Control PCN - Unauthorised Parking - St Anne's Quarter, Norwich
Post by: b789 on June 24, 2025, 02:01:02 pm
At least you know it was received and sent to a judge for further orders. So, yes, all you can do for now is wait.

Once a matter has been referred to a District Judge for consideration of further directions—especially following a procedural request like this—it’s typical that:

• The Judge will issue written directions (either granting or refusing the request), and
• The court will communicate the Judge’s decision by post—usually in the form of a General Form of Judgment or Order (Form N24).

If the matter was referred on the same day your email was received, and assuming there’s no backlog, you can usually expect something to arrive within 7–10 days. However, this can vary depending on the court’s workload and postal delays.

In the meantime, don't assume the hearing has been adjourned or moved unless and until you receive formal confirmation in writing. If you don’t receive anything within 14 days, it would be appropriate to follow up again by email, referencing your earlier correspondence and the phone call.
Title: Re: Norwich Traffic Control PCN - Unauthorised Parking - St Anne's Quarter, Norwich
Post by: Snudge88 on June 24, 2025, 01:35:37 pm
I've not heard anything regarding the request for a review of the hearing, so I tried calling the court today for an update, with my call being transferred to a central administrative centre.

Receipt of the email was confirmed, and apparently it was allocated to a District Judge on the same day for the issuance of further directions.  Other than that the gent in the call centre wasn't able to help me any further.

I assume it's now a case of waiting for something to come in the post?
Title: Re: Norwich Traffic Control PCN - Unauthorised Parking - St Anne's Quarter, Norwich
Post by: b789 on June 12, 2025, 02:10:24 pm
Do a search for any other email addresses for the court. Also, try and phone them.
Title: Re: Norwich Traffic Control PCN - Unauthorised Parking - St Anne's Quarter, Norwich
Post by: DWMB2 on June 12, 2025, 02:09:59 pm
You'd be better off asking us for this week's lottery numbers than trying to predict response times from a County Court I'm afraid. Hopefully unlike your previous correspondence they'll look at it more promptly.
Title: Re: Norwich Traffic Control PCN - Unauthorised Parking - St Anne's Quarter, Norwich
Post by: Snudge88 on June 12, 2025, 01:58:54 pm
Thanks b789 - all sent.

Hopefully I'll receive a response - what sort of timescale should be normal here?  I've never heard anything back in response to my previous correspondence when we first highlighted the issue with the allocation to St Helens.
Title: Re: Norwich Traffic Control PCN - Unauthorised Parking - St Anne's Quarter, Norwich
Post by: b789 on June 12, 2025, 01:52:35 pm
Yes, it is very important. I suggest you email the court at St Helens at civil.sthelens.countycourt@justice.gov.uk with the following and mark it as "URGENT" with the claim number:

Quote
Subject: URGENT Request to Review Hearing Venue and Date – Claim [CLAIM NUMBER]

Dear Sir or Madam,

I write with urgency regarding the above-referenced case, in which a small claims hearing has been listed to take place by telephone at [INSERT TIME] on [INSERT DATE].

I must raise two serious procedural issues:

1. Hearing Venue Ignored – Breach of CPR 26.3(3):

On my N180 Directions Questionnaire, I clearly stated my preference for the hearing to be listed at my local County Court: [INSERT COURT NAME]. I am an individual defendant, and this is a claim for a specified sum of money. Accordingly, CPR 26.3(3) provides that the claim must be sent to the defendant’s home court. This has not occurred, and the listing for a remote hearing without my consent is inappropriate and contrary to the Civil Procedure Rules.

2. Hearing Date Conflicts with My Declared Unavailability (Section F4):

On the same N180 form, I stated unavailability for the date now chosen for the hearing. This is recorded at Section F4. It is clear that my N180 has not been properly considered, which has resulted in a listing that is both procedurally defective and unfair.

This oversight has placed me, a litigant in person, at a considerable disadvantage. I am not legally represented, whereas the Claimant is. I respectfully submit that the current listing breaches the overriding objective under CPR 1.1, particularly the need to ensure that cases are dealt with fairly and in a way that ensures parties are on an equal footing.

I therefore request:

• That the telephone hearing be vacated,
• That the matter be re-listed at my local County Court,
• And that a new date be set having proper regard to my availability as stated on the Directions Questionnaire.

Please confirm receipt of this email and advise what steps will now be taken to correct this.

Yours faithfully,

[Your Full Name]
[Your Address]
[Your Contact Details]
[Claim Number]
Title: Re: Norwich Traffic Control PCN - Unauthorised Parking - St Anne's Quarter, Norwich
Post by: Snudge88 on June 12, 2025, 01:39:05 pm
Thanks b789.

I've just reviewed my N180 to make absolutely sure that the allocation to St Helen's wasn't as a result of a mistake on my part (it wasn't), and have noted that the hearing has also been set for a date that I have said that I will not be available at Section F4 of the form.

It doesn't matter now, as I put in a number of dates that might prove useful for booking holiday, but is this a point worthy of mention as well?  It's clear that whoever processed the N180 hasn't paid the blindest bit of attention to it.
Title: Re: Norwich Traffic Control PCN - Unauthorised Parking - St Anne's Quarter, Norwich
Post by: b789 on June 12, 2025, 09:44:12 am
When asking for the adjournment, you may just want to mention that you don't understand why Practice Direction 26.3(3) was not followed in this case.
Title: Re: Norwich Traffic Control PCN - Unauthorised Parking - St Anne's Quarter, Norwich
Post by: b789 on June 11, 2025, 07:15:22 pm
I have been discussing this case with a District Judge today. He has advised me to tell you that, should this actually get as far as the telephone hearing, you should immediately ask the judge for an adjournment as this case being heard over the telephone against the normal choice of a hearing in person at their local county court is irregular and unfair.

He suggests you ought say the following to the judge:

Quote
I feel at a complete disadvantage having this trial on the telephone. This is because I want to sit in the same room as the Judge and put my case over without any distraction of the telephone hearing perhaps going wrong or someone’s line being cut off. I did object to this hearing being on the telephone by writing to the court but my emails were ignored.

If the hearing is not adjourned, then when asked to speak, you simply state the following:

Quote
"Summary of Defence (Oral Statement to the Court)

I confirm my Defence as submitted, and in order to assist the Court and avoid unnecessary detail, I summarise the key points:

1. No contract could have been formed

For a contract to be formed by conduct, there must be a clear period during which the driver was able to seek out a terms sign, read, understand, and accept the terms. The Claimant has not evidenced any such period. Without showing that the driver remained after considering the signage, there is no basis to infer contractual acceptance or a meeting of minds.

2. Notice to Driver is invalid – no period of parking

The Notice to Driver attached to the vehicle includes only a single timestamp. Under Schedule 4, paragraph 7(2)(a) of PoFA, the notice MUST specify a period of parking. This was confirmed in the persuasive appeal case of Brennan v Premier Parking Solutions, where the judge held that a single timestamp alone is insufficient to evidence a period of parking for the purposes of PoFA. The notice is therefore non-compliant and cannot transfer liability to the Keeper.

3. No keeper liability

Because the Notice to Driver is non-compliant with PoFA, the Claimant cannot transfer liability to the registered keeper. The driver has not been identified, and there is no lawful basis to pursue the keeper.

Accordingly, I respectfully request that the Court dismiss the claim."
Title: Re: Norwich Traffic Control PCN - Unauthorised Parking - St Anne's Quarter, Norwich
Post by: Snudge88 on June 11, 2025, 03:58:36 pm
Submitted to St Helens County Court and BW Legal at 1553hrs today, which should be close enough to the deadline to prevent any last minute additions from BW Legal.

I suppose it's now a case of waiting to see if the trial fee is paid by the deadline of 1600hrs on 4th July.

A couple of questions borne out of general curiosity more than anything else:

Title: Re: Norwich Traffic Control PCN - Unauthorised Parking - St Anne's Quarter, Norwich
Post by: Snudge88 on June 09, 2025, 09:49:37 pm
That's great, thanks!

I've removed the second image, as suggested.

For the first image I've added coloured rings highlighting the two areas with missing signage, and a note beneath: "Location of missing entrance signage marked in blue. Location of missing terms signage marked in yellow."

For the three photos of the remaining entrance sign, I've added the following three notes respectively:

"Poor visibility and siting of entrance sign (ringed red). This is the only entrance sign on site, is wholly inconspicuous, and impossible to see whilst turning into the parking area."

"Extremely faded nature of entrance sign.  The sign is wholly illegible, even from a short distance away."

"Close-up image of entrance sign.  Even close up, significant parts of the text are so faded as to be illegible."

I'll sit on this now until 1555hrs on Wednesday 11th, when I'll get it filed with the Court and served upon the claimant.
Title: Re: Norwich Traffic Control PCN - Unauthorised Parking - St Anne's Quarter, Norwich
Post by: b789 on June 09, 2025, 08:52:14 pm
All good... except that I would mark on the stills from the video on entering, the missing LH entrance sign and the missing terms sign on the front of the building. I wouldn't use the second still image at all. Also, point out on the photos you took of the RHS entrance sign, that this is the RHS entrance sign and then highlight how inconspicuous it is ans impossible to see when turning in to the parking area.

Expect BW Legal to try and undermine you with a supplementary WS but you can object to that being used as it will have been submitted after the bundle deadline, which is why you do not submit your WS until the deadline itself.
Title: Re: Norwich Traffic Control PCN - Unauthorised Parking - St Anne's Quarter, Norwich
Post by: Snudge88 on June 09, 2025, 05:51:06 pm
You need to make sure that any references to evidence you are relying on is correctly referenced in the WS and appended as evidence in your bundle. Have look at how the claimant has put together their bundle and do the same with your evidence and just make sure that it is correctly referenced in your WS.

You can add a hyperlink to the video if you wan to refer to the whole thing or just take some stills from it and reference those in your WS. You can also show how the claimants images of the signs taken who knows when but obviously before the state of the locations now, are not indicative of the state of the car park at the time of the alleged contravention and puts their evidence in doubt as being factual.

Thanks again!  All compiled, paginated, and PDFed.  The only other tweak I've made is at Paragraph 37, to remove the reference to the shape of the site having changed.  On that basis, I've also produced a revised annotated version of the NTC plan at Appendix xx-04, which merely refers to the missing/faded signage.

I don't know if you wanted to take a final look before I send it over at 1555hrs on Wednesday afternoon?

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Norwich Traffic Control PCN - Unauthorised Parking - St Anne's Quarter, Norwich
Post by: DWMB2 on June 09, 2025, 11:04:03 am
You can add a hyperlink to the video if you wan to refer to the whole thing or just take some stills from it and reference those in your WS.
If including a hyperlink to a video, I'd personally be tempted to also refer to stills as a backup. That way, if their are technical issues on the day that prevent the display of the video, you'll have the stills to refer to.
Title: Re: Norwich Traffic Control PCN - Unauthorised Parking - St Anne's Quarter, Norwich
Post by: b789 on June 09, 2025, 10:37:22 am
You need to make sure that any references to evidence you are relying on is correctly referenced in the WS and appended as evidence in your bundle. Have look at how the claimant has put together their bundle and do the same with your evidence and just make sure that it is correctly referenced in your WS.

You can add a hyperlink to the video if you wan to refer to the whole thing or just take some stills from it and reference those in your WS. You can also show how the claimants images of the signs taken who knows when but obviously before the state of the locations now, are not indicative of the state of the car park at the time of the alleged contravention and puts their evidence in doubt as being factual.
Title: Re: Norwich Traffic Control PCN - Unauthorised Parking - St Anne's Quarter, Norwich
Post by: Snudge88 on June 08, 2025, 09:13:01 pm
Thanks b789 - this is fantastic, and I am unbelievably grateful.

I am now in the process of putting this together into a full document, with appendices etc.,  Three small queries arise:

Should there be a reference to Appendix xx-03 in this paragraph, such as "Still images from this video are provided as evidence at xx-03 to demonstrate that crucial signage marked on the plan was either missing, obscured, illegible, or not in the locations indicated."

Paragraph 36 states "A copy of the site plan showing the obvious anomalies is attached as evidence at xx-04.".  Is this the plan that you provided yesterday, with the green arrows?

Finally - should I include any sort of link to the uploaded version of the video anywhere in my bundle?

Thanks again!
Title: Re: Norwich Traffic Control PCN - Unauthorised Parking - St Anne's Quarter, Norwich
Post by: b789 on June 08, 2025, 03:15:32 pm
Here is a suggested amended WS but you should not send anything until just before 4pm on Wednesday 11th June:

Quote
IN THE COUNTY COURT AT ST HELENS
Claim No: [Claim Number]

BETWEEN:

Norwich Traffic Control Ltd

Claimant

- and -

[Defendant's Full Name]


Defendant



WITNESS STATEMENT


1. I am the Defendant in this claim and a litigant-in-person with no formal legal training. I have prepared this witness statement and my Defence to the best of my ability, having carried out detailed research into the relevant law and procedure. In doing so, I have received informal guidance from publicly accessible legal resources, including the forum www.ftla.uk (Free Traffic Legal Advice), which provides voluntary assistance on private parking and contractual matters. I respectfully ask the Court to take into account that this case has been presented in good faith by a lay person and is not a generic or template response, as inaccurately alleged by the Claimant’s representative. I confirm that the facts stated in this witness statement are true to the best of my knowledge and belief.

Claimants 'Witness' is third-hand hearsay

2. The Claimant’s witness statement is authored by a paralegal employed by BW Legal who confirms they are acting under the instruction of a senior. This makes the content of the statement, at best, third-hand hearsay. The witness has no personal knowledge of the facts, the site, the signage, or of me as the Defendant.

3. The statement is written predominantly in the third person and contains speculative, disparaging, and inadmissible commentary that strays far beyond the factual scope permitted by CPR Practice Direction 32. It includes an unfounded accusation—also repeated in the Skeleton Argument—that my Defence was copied from a generic internet forum, specifically moneysavingexpert.com. This is categorically false.

4. My Defence was compiled independently with tailored support from the consumer legal forum www.ftla.uk, which specialises in assisting members of the public in private parking contractual matters. As a litigant-in-person, I am entitled to seek legitimate advice and assistance. Even if the Defence had been influenced by online resources, that would not render it improper. In contrast, the Claimant’s own submissions appear to be generic templates containing boilerplate assertions and legal inaccuracies.

5. The witness, not being present at the hearing and not having personal knowledge, cannot be cross-examined. In accordance with the Civil Evidence Act 1995 and CPR 33, I respectfully submit that the Court should attach little or no weight to this untested, third-hand hearsay evidence, which fails to assist the Court on any material or disputed fact.

6. Moreover, the Claimant’s late attempt to plead their case through the witness statement further highlights that they could have—and should have—served proper Particulars of Claim within 14 days of issuing the claim online via MCOL, pursuant to PD 7C.5.2. Their decision not to do so has deprived the Court and the Defendant of a fair and timely understanding of the claim. This omission was avoidable and strategic, not inadvertent or constrained by MCOL limitations.

7. The focus of my Defence was on this very inadequacy—namely, that the Particulars of Claim failed to adequately comply with CPR 16.4 and Practice Direction 16. The Claimant has not addressed those defects in any meaningful or procedurally compliant way. Instead, they attempt to deflect attention from the deficiencies of their claim by attacking the format and supposed origin of my Defence, which entirely misses the point.

The Claimant failed to adequately plead their claim pursuant to CPR 16.4

8. The Particulars of Claim are vague, inadequately pleaded, and fail to adequately comply with CPR 16.4 and Practice Direction 16, paragraph 7.5. The Claimant does not identify the precise terms of the alleged contract, nor the clause(s) said to have been breached. There is no statement of when or for how long the alleged parking occurred, nor any identification of the signage or the specific terms displayed. The pleading fails to set out the facts necessary to establish either breach or the basis of any contractual entitlement to the sum claimed.

9. The Claimant has also failed to specify whether I am being pursued as the driver or the keeper. The pleading is impermissibly ambiguous, failing to disclose which legal basis is relied upon or to plead alternative causes of action with the required particularity. This is contrary to the basic principles of civil pleading and has caused significant prejudice to the myself.

10. I submitted a proposed draft order with the Defence, inviting the Court to strike out the claim or, in the alternative, to order further and better particulars. The Court failed to address that request and instead allocated the matter to a final hearing without requiring the Claimant to remedy the procedural defects. I respectfully submit that this oversight has resulted in procedural unfairness, and now invite the Court to exercise its case management powers to strike out the claim in its entirety pursuant to CPR 3.4(2)(a) and CPR 16.4 for failure to disclose reasonable grounds for bringing the claim.

11. There was nothing to prevent the Claimant from filing further and better particulars under PD 7C.5.2A within 14 days of the MCOL claim, which they chose not to do. That decision is not my responsibility. A failure to remedy defective pleadings cannot be excused by the 1080-character limit of the MCOL interface. Where a claim is factually or legally complex—as this one purports to be—the Claimant should have served separate, detailed particulars as expressly permitted by the Practice Direction. The option existed but was not exercised.

12. The Claimant’s Skeleton also states that “the hearing can focus on the facts of the case”, and that its solicitors will “respond to the Defendant’s facts” at the hearing. This confirms the Claimant’s strategic decision to rely on minimal pleadings and belatedly expand upon them at trial. That is procedurally inappropriate. The purpose of pleadings is to inform the other party of the case they must meet, not to be supplemented piecemeal via a witness statement or skeleton.

13. Furthermore, the Claimant’s assertion that the PoC must be deemed compliant because the case was allocated to the small claims track is misconceived. Allocation is an administrative process and does not imply judicial approval of pleadings. No judge has ruled on compliance with CPR 16.4 in this case, and silence cannot be taken as endorsement.

14. Additionally, the Claimant’s witness is a paralegal who has no first-hand knowledge of the facts and makes several speculative and disparaging comments that are inadmissible under CPR PD 32. These include opinions about the Defence’s origin and format, which are wholly irrelevant to the issues before the Court and serve only to undermine the integrity of these proceedings

No evidence of a contract being formed with the driver

15. The claim fails from the outset due to the Claimant’s total failure to show that a parking contract was ever formed. The Notice to Driver (NtD) and Notice to Keeper (NtK) merely record a single timestamp. There is no actual “period of parking” specified, and no evidence whatsoever of how long the vehicle was present. The option on the NtD to record and observation 'period' is shown as: "First seen at: N/A".

16. This is a fundamental omission. A contract by conduct cannot be formed without a consideration period. There must be sufficient time for the driver to seek out, read the signage, consider the terms, and make a decision to accept or reject them. Without showing how long the vehicle remained on site, the Claimant has not established that any contract was formed.

17. The IPC Code of Practice, Version 9, which applied at the time, confirms this. Section 13 requires that a consideration period of appropriate duration be allowed before a parking contract is formed. IN the latest version of their Code of Practice, this has now been confirmed to a period of no less than 5 minutes.

18. This is consistent with basic contract law: no contract can arise by conduct unless there has been sufficient time to seek out, read and consider the terms. The Claimant has provided no evidence that this requirement was met. The Claimant has provided no evidence that the vehicle remained on site beyond this undefined but necessary consideration period. Without this, the court cannot conclude that a contract was even capable of being created, let alone breached. As such, the entire basis for the claim collapses.

Failure to fully comply with all the requirements of PoFA 2012

19. This same deficiency also renders the Claimant’s notices non-compliant with Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 ("PoFA"). In order to transfer liability from the unknown driver to the registered keeper, strict compliance with the statutory requirements is mandatory. Paragraph 7(2)(a) (in respect of a Notice to Driver) and paragraph 8(2)(a) (for a Notice to Keeper following a NtD) both require that the notice 'must' "specify the period of parking to which the notice relates". A single timestamp, as provided by the Claimant, is not a “period” of parking and therefore fails this requirement, especially when their own paperwork provides a box precisely for this purpose.

20. This issue was considered in the persuasive appellate decision Scott Brennan v Premier Parking Solutions (2023) [H6DP632H]. Relevant excerpts are exhibited at Exhibit XX-01.

21. At paragraphs 27 to 30, HHJ Mitchell confirmed that PoFA requires the notice to specify a period of parking, even if it is a short one, and not merely a moment in time. He explained that:

The period of parking does not refer to the whole period a vehicle is in situ. It could be less than that... it could be any minimum period; that is the period to which the Notice relates. That is what the Regulations are getting to... Where it went wrong... is that the second of those [times] was put in as ‘NA’. If the time had been put in, that would have cured the problem and that simply had to be repeated in the Notice to keeper.”

22. The judgment makes it clear that where the notice fails to specify a minimum identifiable period, as is the case here, PoFA conditions are not met and keeper liability cannot arise.

Failure to fully comply with PoFA means no Keeper liability

23. The Claimant has also failed to establish the identity of the driver. The registered keeper is under no legal obligation to identify the driver, and I have not done so. In the persuasive appellate case of Vehicle Control Services v Ian Mark Edward (2023) [HOKF6C9C], HHJ Gargan made it clear that it is not appropriate for a court to infer that the registered keeper was the driver, even on the balance of probabilities, where there is no supporting evidence. A copy of the relevant section of the judgment is exhibited at Exhibit XX-02.

24. At paragraph 35.3, the judge stated:

It is consistent with the appropriate probability analysis whereby simply because somebody is a registered keeper, it does not mean on balance of probability they were driving on this occasion, because one simply cannot tell… These are all possibilities which show that it is not appropriate to draw an inference that, on balance of probability, the registered keeper was driving on any given occasion.

25. I respectfully submit that in order for the claimant to be able to rely on the provisions of PoFA, all the requirements of the act must be met. Partial or even substantial compliance is not sufficient. To use an analogy, just like pregnancy, one either is or is not. It is a binary issue and the same applies to PoFA compliance. In this case, their notices are not fully compliant.

26. As the Claimant’s notices are not fully compliant with all the requirements of PoFA, they cannot rely on keeper liability, and in the absence of any admissible evidence identifying the driver, the claim must fail.

Failure to evidence a valid contract flowing from the landowner

27. The Claimant relies on a one-page document as its contract with the landholder, yet this purported agreement is fraught with deficiencies. It is signed only by a representative of Orbit Homes, with no counter-signature from the Claimant, raising doubts about whether it constitutes a valid and binding agreement.

28. The contract includes a self-declaration that the signatory is either the landowner or a duly authorised agent but provides no independent proof of landowner authority. This falls short of the requirements under CPR Practice Direction 16, paragraph 7.5, which require the source of the Claimant’s authority to be clearly set out.

29. The handwritten addition “Richard Dean, Future Build” appears without explanation or context. There is no indication of who Richard Dean is, what “Future Build” represents, or what legal interest—if any—this entity holds in the land. It is unclear whether this was added contemporaneously or afterwards. This unexplained annotation introduces serious uncertainty into the authenticity and authority behind the agreement.

30. Crucially, the agreement makes no express grant of authority for the Claimant to issue legal proceedings in its own name. The vague reference to a right to “pursue by any means lawful” does not amount to an assignment or clear authorisation, and is insufficient to confer locus standi.

31. The contract also contains a retrospective enforcement clause, purporting to legitimise charges issued before the agreement was signed. Such a clause is legally ineffective and cannot confer retrospective authority.

32. The version of the purported contract disclosed to me by the Claimant is redacted. If the Claimant has provided an unredacted version to the Court but failed to serve the same upon me, this would constitute a breach of CPR 32.12 and CPR 1.3, which require mutual disclosure and cooperation in the interests of a fair hearing. It would also amount to procedural unfairness and a denial of my right as a litigant-in-person to properly examine the material relied upon. I respectfully request that the Court disregard any version of the contract which has not been disclosed in full and in equal terms to both parties.

33. The agreement refers to a site plan, which is said to form part of the contract and purportedly marks the signage locations. However, I visited the site upon receiving the Notice to Keeper and recorded a video capturing the actual signage conditions. Still images from this video are provided as evidence to demonstrate that crucial signage marked on the plan was either missing, obscured, illegible, or not in the locations indicated. As such, the site plan is materially inaccurate and does not reflect the actual conditions at the location.

34. This discrepancy is not a minor oversight—it goes to the heart of the alleged contractual framework. If the signage relied upon by the Claimant to form a contract was not in place as shown on the plan, then the plan cannot serve as reliable evidence of either the existence or adequacy of notice given to drivers.

35. Moreover, it casts serious doubt on the validity of the agreement itself, given that the purported basis of enforcement (i.e. effective signage) was not actually implemented as described in the contract documentation. The Court is therefore invited to find that this inconsistency further undermines the enforceability of the contract and the credibility of the Claimant's case.

36. For example, the key left hand entrance sign marked on the site plan is missing entirely and the other entrance sign is hidden round the corner of the building on the right as you approach the car park and mounted high on a wall and cannot be seen by a driver entering the car park . It is severely faded. Another supposed terms sign on the building opposite the entrance is absent. This undermines any suggestion that clear and visible contractual terms were communicated to the driver. A copy of the site plan showing the obvious anomalies is attached as evidence at XX-04.

37. The Claimants witness has shown multiple photo of signs that are not dated but were clearly taken prior to the date of the alleged contravention an dhow that the site has changed materially since they were taken, as the site is no longer the same shape and the boundary walls have been changed and are also now covered in graffiti.

38. Taken together, the contract is vague, inadequately executed, and factually contradicted by contemporaneous site conditions. The Court is invited to find that the Claimant has failed to prove either contractual standing or the existence of clear, accessible signage capable of forming a binding agreement with any motorist.

Failure of the Claimant to properly engage in the Pre Action Protocol

39. Following receipt of the Claimant’s Letter of Claim, I engaged in detailed correspondence raising fundamental concerns. These included: the validity of the signage, the alleged contractual authority of the Claimant, the calculation and legal basis of the £60 add-on charge, and the inapplicability of ParkingEye Ltd v Beavis [2015] UKSC 67 to this case. Despite being given ample opportunity to clarify or substantiate their position, the Claimant failed to answer these questions. No documents were provided, and no serious attempt was made to justify their claim.

40. Instead, the Claimant proceeded to issue a County Court claim via the MCOL interface, choosing to rely on vague and wholly inadequate Particulars of Claim. These did not specify the terms of the alleged contract, the signage relied upon, the period of parking, the nature of the breach, or even whether the claim was pursued against me as keeper or driver. This lack of detail falls well short of CPR 16.4 and PD16 paragraph 7.5, and left me in a position where I had no option but to plead my Defence on the basis of the Claimant’s inadequately pleaded case.

41. The Claimant is professionally represented and had the procedural right under PD7C 5.2A to serve full Particulars of Claim within 14 days of issuing the claim. Given the complexity of the issues raised in pre-action correspondence—including my challenge to their misapplication of Beavis, which clearly concerned a free car park at a retail site with prominent signage and a compelling commercial justification—they had every reason to exercise that right. Yet they chose not to.

42. The Claimant’s later reliance on Beavis—a Supreme Court judgment with highly specific facts and strict qualifying criteria—is not only inappropriate, but further reveals their unwillingness to properly engage with the material differences in this case. The site in question here does not present the same signage clarity, free parking rationale, or legitimate interest. I expressly raised this distinction in my pre-action replies, which the Claimant ignored.

43. Now, on the eve of witness statement submission deadline, the Claimant seeks to introduce extensive new arguments and factual assertions via a witness statement written by a paralegal acting under instruction. This third-hand, untested statement attempts to backfill the serious deficiencies in their case by addressing points they refused to clarify during the PAP process or in the claim particulars. This tactic of last-minute ambush—relying on arguments withheld pre-claim and absent from the PoC—is procedurally unfair and contrary to the Overriding Objective.

44. The Court is invited to give little or no weight to this strategy. The Claimant’s failure to engage with legitimate pre-action queries, their failure to plead a coherent claim, and their subsequent reliance on inadmissible hearsay to ‘plug the gaps’ at the final hour, demonstrates conduct which is inconsistent with fair litigation.

Conclusion

45. In conclusion, the Claimant has failed to demonstrate that any contract was formed, that a valid parking charge was incurred, or that the statutory requirements of Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 have been met. They have not provided evidence of the alleged period of parking, nor established keeper liability under PoFA. No admissible evidence has been produced to identify the driver, and the Particulars of Claim remain vague, non-compliant with CPR 16.4, and lacking in legal clarity.

46. The Claimant has pursued this claim despite repeated pre-action warnings of these fundamental defects and has failed to address them both before and after proceedings were issued. Their conduct has been unreasonable throughout.

47. I respectfully request that the claim be dismissed, and that the Court consider making a costs order pursuant to CPR 27.14(2)(g) due to the Claimant’s unreasonable behaviour.

Statement of truth

I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.

Signed:


Date:

You will need to include the two transcripts referred to and also the photo (stills from your video) showing the absence of signs and also the phot you provided of the faded entrance sign on the right, both the close up and the one show how insignificant it is general view.

In the WS you need to replace the 'XX' in "XX-01" etc. with your initials. You then need to create a cover sheet for those items of evidence with the court headers as they are in your WS and just put "Supporting Evidence" and mark each one with the corresponding reference as in the WS.

Here are links to the two transcripts:

Brennan v PPS (https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/1b9rpna57dutsetdgwi60/Brennan-v-Premier-Parking-Plymouth-CC-Judgment-20230821-V-Final_-14.pdf?rlkey=203u1fav6fve811lz8cm8wpwx&st=5p0lqof5&dl=0)

VCS v Edward (https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/zra61px7l3if53o3bp9c4/VCS-v-EDWARD-Transcript.pdf?rlkey=bv4bba389nau5qpfglqkpjq5l&st=jr69jnln&dl=0)

When you send it, you must email it as a PDF attachment in an email with the claim number in the email subject field. You email it to civil.sthelens.countycourt@justice.gov.uk and also CC BW Legal and also yourself in the same email.
[/quote]
Title: Re: Norwich Traffic Control PCN - Unauthorised Parking - St Anne's Quarter, Norwich
Post by: b789 on June 07, 2025, 09:33:31 pm
They've really piled it on in their WS. I've had a brief look at it and there are significant points you should point out in your WS. I will study it a bit more tomorrow but initially, I note that their plan with the signs which is part of their supposed landowner contract are not there in your video when you drive in. Notably there is no entrance sign on the left and the terms sign supposedly on the building in front as you drive in, is not there either. Also the layout of the car park appears to be different. I've highlighted the obvious missing signs and also the area that does not appear to be there anymore, in green:

(https://i.imgur.com/e4pDdgr.jpeg)

Also there are many points in the WS of Eden Moore and the fact that this person is not an actual "witness". The following paras will be included in an amended WS ready for submission:

Quote
The Claimant’s witness statement has not been made by a representative of the Claimant company, but by a paralegal employed by its solicitors, BW Legal. This individual has no direct involvement in the circumstances giving rise to the claim, nor any first-hand knowledge of the relevant facts.

While hearsay evidence is permitted under the Civil Evidence Act 1995, it is well established that such evidence carries less weight, particularly where it relates to matters that could and should have been addressed by a witness with direct knowledge. The evidence relied upon is second-hand and simply recites instructions received from the Claimant.

The statement fails to comply with CPR Practice Direction 32, paragraph 18.2, which requires a witness to indicate which parts of their statement are made from their own knowledge and which are based on information or belief, with the source of any such belief stated. The witness has not identified the source of any information or belief and has not distinguished between fact and instruction. This omission renders the statement procedurally defective and undermines its evidential weight.

The individual who has made the statement is not an officer or employee of Norwich Traffic Control Limited and has no operational involvement with the site, the signage, the contractual arrangements, or the issuance of parking charges. Their role is purely that of a legal assistant instructed to compile a generic narrative in support of the claim.

The witness statement is improperly drafted in the third person, which is contrary to CPR PD 32, paragraph 18.1. A witness statement must be in the first person and clearly state the evidence being given by the witness in their own words. This further supports the inference that the statement is not based on personal knowledge, but rather is a solicitor-assisted summary of instructions from the Claimant.

I submit that little weight should be given to this statement and that, where it is not supported by contemporaneous documents or admissible evidence, it should be disregarded entirely.

Also, this "witness' has now gone beyond what is necessary and made false statement in their Skeleton. Notably that the defence is an internet template from www.moneysavingexpert.com rather than from www.ftla.uk and has tried to undermine that defence with irrelevance to the fact that their PoC were defective.

I will provide more tomorrow after I've hd a chance to read more of their WS.
Title: Re: Norwich Traffic Control PCN - Unauthorised Parking - St Anne's Quarter, Norwich
Post by: Snudge88 on June 07, 2025, 03:03:57 pm
You need to make the file public so I can access it

Sorry! Should be accessible now.
Title: Re: Norwich Traffic Control PCN - Unauthorised Parking - St Anne's Quarter, Norwich
Post by: b789 on June 07, 2025, 02:42:04 pm
You need to make the file public so I can access it
Title: Re: Norwich Traffic Control PCN - Unauthorised Parking - St Anne's Quarter, Norwich
Post by: Snudge88 on June 07, 2025, 12:11:35 pm
Thanks b789 - bundle can be found here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1aw8fnbPf6wX2P00eE_cCCkcw5D7ATv7K/view?usp=sharing

I note that they have included a copy of their contract with Orbit Homes, which I assume will necessitate an amendment to the WC. 

I also see that they have provided a schedule of signs and photographic evidence of their presence, but that these photographs are without a time stamp. On this basis, I assume that they cannot use them to prove that any signs other than the one sign shown in the contemporaneous time-stamped photos were present at the time of the alleged infraction?
Title: Re: Norwich Traffic Control PCN - Unauthorised Parking - St Anne's Quarter, Norwich
Post by: b789 on June 07, 2025, 11:32:31 am
It's your WS and you are signing it under a Statement of Truth (SoT). If I've got something obviously wrong, then you need to amend it so that it does not conflict with the truth.

Regarding the points in para #11, that can stay as is because it is pointing out the defects in the claimants PoC.

So, don't send anything until we've had a chance to review their WS and evidence. If you can upload it to Google Drive, that would make it much easier to review.
Title: Re: Norwich Traffic Control PCN - Unauthorised Parking - St Anne's Quarter, Norwich
Post by: Snudge88 on June 07, 2025, 11:16:13 am
Quick update - BW Legal's bundle has just landed on my doormat.  I am currently in the process of scanning and uploading it - I'll update this post with a copy once I'm done.
Title: Re: Norwich Traffic Control PCN - Unauthorised Parking - St Anne's Quarter, Norwich
Post by: Snudge88 on June 07, 2025, 10:38:11 am
Thank b789 - much appreciated as always.

NTC did send me a time-stamped photograph of the sign at the time of the alleged contravention (p2 of the thread).  With this in mind, should I amend the third sentence of Para 20 of the witness statement to "Specifically, they did not address my argument that the £60 "debt recovery" charge was not transparently included in the original terms."?

Does the discussion of signage at Para 11 also need amending, or is this a different matter altogether, relating to their initial Particulars of Claim?

Thanks!
Title: Re: Norwich Traffic Control PCN - Unauthorised Parking - St Anne's Quarter, Norwich
Post by: b789 on June 06, 2025, 05:21:35 pm
OK. As this is going to be a telephone hearing, it is not strategically worthwhile to continue seeking a transfer to your local court for an in-person hearing when:

• A telephone hearing has already been listed.
• No personal attendance is required.
• You’ve preserved the objection in correspondence (which helps if costs are later sought).

Unless you have specific reasons (e.g. hearing impairment, poor phone coverage, or caring responsibilities making a phone hearing unworkable), HMCTS will very likely reject any further request to change the venue.

So you need work with what you have. So far:

• Claim has been incorrectly allocated to St Helens County Court despite your N180 requesting your local court.
• CNCB and St Helens Court have not responded to your correction requests.
• Directions Order issued on 11 May 2025 with:

• Telephone hearing scheduled for 1 August 2025
• Witness statements deadline: 4pm, 11 June 2025
•Trial fee due from Claimant by 4 July

• No witness evidence received from the Claimant as of yet.

You now need to prepare your witness statement and supporting exhibits to be filed and served no later than 4pm on 11 June 2025. Even if the Claimant fails to serve theirs, do not miss your own deadline. If they don’t comply, you can object to their evidence later.

Here is a suggested WS but you should not send anything until just before 4pm on Wednesday 11th June:

Quote
IN THE COUNTY COURT AT ST HELENS
Claim No: [Claim Number]

BETWEEN:

Norwich Traffic Control Ltd

Claimant

- and -

[Defendant's Full Name]


Defendant



WITNESS STATEMENT


1. I make this statement in support of my defence to the claim brought by Norwich Traffic Control Limited. I confirm that the facts set out here are true to the best of my knowledge and belief.

No Contract Formed

2. The claim fails from the outset due to the Claimant’s total failure to show that a parking contract was ever formed. The Notice to Driver (NtD) and Notice to Keeper (NtK) merely record a single timestamp. There is no actual “period of parking” specified, and no evidence whatsoever of how long the vehicle was present. This is a fundamental omission. A contract by conduct cannot be formed without a consideration period. There must be sufficient time for the driver to seek out, read the signage, consider the terms, and make a decision to accept or reject them. Without showing how long the vehicle remained on site, the Claimant has not established that any contract was formed.

3. The IPC Code of Practice, Version 9, which applied at the time, confirms this. Section 13 requires that a consideration period of appropriate duration be allowed before a parking contract is formed. This is consistent with basic contract law: no contract can arise by conduct unless there has been sufficient time to seek out, read and consider the terms. The Claimant has provided no evidence that this requirement was met. The Claimant has provided no evidence that the vehicle remained on site beyond this undefined but necessary consideration period. Without this, the court cannot conclude that a contract was even capable of being created, let alone breached. As such, the entire basis for the claim collapses.

No Compliance with PoFA 2012

4. This same deficiency also renders the Claimant’s notices non-compliant with Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 ("PoFA"). In order to transfer liability from the driver to the registered keeper, strict compliance with the statutory requirements is mandatory. Paragraph 7(2)(a) (in respect of a Notice to Driver) and paragraph 8(2)(a) (for a Notice to Keeper following a NtD) both require that the notice must "specify the period of parking to which the notice relates." A single timestamp, as provided by the Claimant, is not a “period” of parking and therefore fails this requirement.

5. This issue was considered in the persuasive appellate decision Scott Brennan v Premier Parking Solutions (2023) [H6DP632H]. Relevant excerpts are exhibited at Exhibit XX-01.

6. At paragraphs 27 to 30, HHJ Mitchell confirmed that PoFA requires the notice to specify a period of parking, even if it is a short one, and not merely a moment in time. He explained that:

The period of parking does not refer to the whole period a vehicle is in situ. It could be less than that... it could be any minimum period; that is the period to which the Notice relates. That is what the Regulations are getting to... Where it went wrong... is that the second of those [times] was put in as ‘NA’. If the time had been put in, that would have cured the problem and that simply had to be repeated in the Notice to keeper.” (paras. 28–29)

7. The judgment makes it clear that where the notice fails to specify a minimum identifiable period, as is the case here, PoFA conditions are not met and keeper liability cannot arise.

No Evidence of Driver Identity

8. The Claimant has also failed to establish the identity of the driver. The registered keeper is under no legal obligation to identify the driver, and I have not done so. In the persuasive appellate case of VCS v Ian Mark Edward (2023) [HOKF6C9C], HHJ Gargan made it clear that it is not appropriate for a court to infer that the registered keeper was the driver, even on the balance of probabilities, where there is no supporting evidence. A copy of the relevant section of the judgment is exhibited at Exhibit XX-02.

9. At paragraph 35.3, the judge stated:

It is consistent with the appropriate probability analysis whereby simply because somebody is a registered keeper, it does not mean on balance of probability they were driving on this occasion, because one simply cannot tell… These are all possibilities which show that it is not appropriate to draw an inference that, on balance of probability, the registered keeper was driving on any given occasion.

10. As the Claimant’s notices are non-compliant with PoFA, they cannot rely on keeper liability, and in the absence of any admissible evidence identifying the driver, the claim must fail.

Failure to Comply with CPR 16.4

11. The Particulars of Claim are vague, inadequately pleaded, and fail to comply with CPR 16.4 and Practice Direction 16, paragraph 7.5. The Claimant does not identify the precise terms of the alleged contract, nor the clause(s) said to have been breached. There is no statement of when or for how long the alleged parking occurred, nor any identification of the signage or the specific terms displayed. The pleading fails to set out the facts necessary to establish either breach or the basis of any contractual entitlement to the sum claimed.

12. The Claimant has also failed to specify whether I am being pursued as the driver or the keeper. The pleading is impermissibly ambiguous, failing to disclose which legal basis is relied upon or to plead alternative causes of action with the required particularity. This is contrary to the basic principles of civil pleading and has caused significant prejudice to the Defendant.

13. The Defendant submitted a proposed draft order with the Defence, inviting the Court to strike out the claim or, in the alternative, to order further and better particulars. The Court failed to address that request and instead allocated the matter to a final hearing without requiring the Claimant to remedy the procedural defects. The Defendant respectfully submits that this oversight has resulted in procedural unfairness, and now invites the Court to exercise its case management powers to strike out the claim in its entirety pursuant to CPR 3.4(2)(a) and CPR 16.4 for failure to disclose reasonable grounds for bringing the claim.

14. In a similar claim heard before another County Court, a District Judge struck out the case on the court’s own initiative due to the Claimant’s failure to comply with CPR 16.4. I submitted a copy of that draft order with my defence. The judge held that requiring further case management steps in such a poorly pleaded claim would be disproportionate, given the modest value of the claim. The same reasoning applies here.

No Evidence of a Valid Contract with the Landowner

15. The Claimant has failed to provide any evidence of a valid and binding contract with the landowner conferring authority to manage the land, issue parking charges, and pursue legal action in its own name. This is a serious omission that undermines the foundation of the claim.

16. The mere presence of signage is not sufficient to establish that the Claimant has the necessary legal rights to form parking contracts or enforce them. As confirmed by the Court of Appeal in Vehicle Control Services Ltd v HMRC [2013] EWCA Civ 186 at [22], a party must demonstrate that it has a sufficient interest in the land or specific authorisation from the landowner to offer contracts to park and to enforce any resulting charges. Without this, the operator cannot be a contracting party, and any alleged contract would be void for want of locus standi.

17. In this case, the Claimant has not produced any document showing:

(i) the identity of the landowner;
(ii) the dates and duration of any agreement;
(iii) the geographic extent of the authority granted;
(iv) whether the Claimant was authorised to form contracts and/or bring legal proceedings in its own name;
(v) the terms under which any consideration flows between the landowner and the Claimant.

18. The existence of such a contract is not a mere formality. It is a mandatory requirement to establish standing. As stated by District Judge McLean in Excel Parking Services v Wilkinson (Stockport County Court, 2017, unreported but widely cited), “a person who puts up a sign cannot automatically claim that they are authorised to do so by the landowner... the burden of proof is on the Claimant to show that they had the necessary rights.

19. Accordingly, without this foundational evidence, the Claimant cannot demonstrate a cause of action and the claim ought to be struck out.

Failure to Comply with the PAP

20. I responded to the Claimant’s Letter of Claim raising detailed objections and requesting key evidence. The Claimant failed to meaningfully engage with my response. Specifically, they did not provide timestamped photographs of the signage in situ at the material time, nor did they address my argument that the £60 “debt recovery” charge was not transparently included in the original terms.

21. I also challenged the Claimant’s reliance on ParkingEye Ltd v Beavis [2015] UKSC 67, as the facts of that case are clearly distinguishable. In Beavis, the signage was prominent, clear, and unambiguous, and the Supreme Court held that the charge was justified by a legitimate commercial interest. By contrast, in this case, the Claimant has presented no evidence of comparable signage, no evidence of a legitimate interest justifying the charge, and no basis for the application of the Beavis ruling.

22. Had the Claimant dealt with the concerns raised pre-action, this matter could likely have been resolved or discontinued without burdening the court. The Claimant’s failure to do so has resulted in unnecessary litigation and wasted time, for which I submit that a costs order is justified.

Conclusion

23. In conclusion, the Claimant has failed to demonstrate that any contract was formed, that a valid parking charge was incurred, or that the statutory requirements of Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 have been met. They have not provided evidence of the alleged period of parking, nor established keeper liability under PoFA. No admissible evidence has been produced to identify the driver, and the Particulars of Claim remain vague, non-compliant with CPR 16.4, and lacking in legal clarity.

24. The Claimant has pursued this claim despite repeated pre-action warnings of these fundamental defects and has failed to address them both before and after proceedings were issued. Their conduct has been unreasonable throughout.

25. I respectfully request that the claim be dismissed, and that the Court consider making a costs order pursuant to CPR 27.14(2)(g) due to the Claimant’s unreasonable behaviour.

Statement of truth

I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.

Signed:


Date:

You will need to include the two transcripts referred to. In the WS you need to replace the XX in "XX-01" with your initials. You then need to create a cover sheet for those items of evidence with the court headers as they are in your WS and just put "Supporting Evidence" and mark each one with the corresponding reference as in the WS.

Here are links to the two transcripts:

Brennan v PPS (https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/1b9rpna57dutsetdgwi60/Brennan-v-Premier-Parking-Plymouth-CC-Judgment-20230821-V-Final_-14.pdf?rlkey=203u1fav6fve811lz8cm8wpwx&st=5p0lqof5&dl=0)

VCS v Edward (https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/zra61px7l3if53o3bp9c4/VCS-v-EDWARD-Transcript.pdf?rlkey=bv4bba389nau5qpfglqkpjq5l&st=jr69jnln&dl=0)

When you send it, you must email it as a PDF attachment in an email with the claim number in the email subject field. You email it to civil.sthelens.countycourt@justice.gov.uk and also CC BW Legal and also yourself in the same email.
Title: Re: Norwich Traffic Control PCN - Unauthorised Parking - St Anne's Quarter, Norwich
Post by: Snudge88 on June 06, 2025, 02:26:47 pm
Hi b789

No word from the claimant so far.  Anything you'd recommend I do at this stage, in anticipation of the 11th June deadline for filing their witness statements?
Title: Re: Norwich Traffic Control PCN - Unauthorised Parking - St Anne's Quarter, Norwich
Post by: b789 on May 15, 2025, 03:25:36 pm
You do not "file" your defence with the court. your defence has already been pleaded and is based on the claimants flawed PoC. You will deal with anything if and when the claimant pays the trial fee.

As this is a telephone hearing, unless you are prepared to ay a fee to have it transferred to a local court for a hearing in person, you will have to rely on the claimant going all the way or not.

The deadline for the parties to submit their Witness Statements (WS) is 11th June. Let's see if they submit their WS by that date. If they have not submitted anything a few days before that date, remind us.
Title: Re: Norwich Traffic Control PCN - Unauthorised Parking - St Anne's Quarter, Norwich
Post by: Snudge88 on May 15, 2025, 11:37:22 am
Directions now received, summary as follows:

1)  Case remains allocated to the Small Claims Track at St Helens.  Hearing to be conducted by telephone at 2pm on 1st August 2025.

2)  Written evidence upon which each party intends to rely is to be filed at the court and served on the opposing party by 4pm on 11th June 2025, including statement from the party if they intend to give evidence.

3)  Parties can apply for the order to be set aside within seven days of service (order dated 11th May 2025).

4)  Claimant to pay the trial fee by 4pm on 4th July 2025, otherwise the case will be struck out.

Is the previously-provided defence sufficient to be filed with the court here to act as my 'in court' defence?  Also, is it worth re-submitting the Strikeout Order re point 3 above?

Thanks!
Title: Re: Norwich Traffic Control PCN - Unauthorised Parking - St Anne's Quarter, Norwich
Post by: b789 on April 22, 2025, 01:08:27 pm
Given the administrative venue error and the transfer to St Helens rather than your local court — a short response would serve a useful tactical purpose. It confirms that you are still engaged, shows awareness of process, and may deter BW Legal from taking liberties during the allocation stage or ahead of any possible discontinuance.

A brief reply that reiterates that the matter is defended, confirms the position is unchanged and gives notice that costs may be sought under CPR 27.14(2)(g) if unreasonable conduct continues.

Quote
Dear Eden Moore,

Re: Claim No. [XXXXXXXX] – Norwich Traffic Control Limited v [Defendant Name]

Thank you for your email of [insert date].

The Defendant’s position remains as clearly set out in the fully pleaded defence. There is no basis for further negotiation. If your client continues to pursue this claim unreasonably, the Defendant will seek costs under CPR 27.14(2)(g).

Please also note that the Civil National Business Centre (CNCB) has transferred this case to St Helens County Court, which is not the Defendant’s local court as specified in the Directions Questionnaire. This appears to be an administrative error. A formal request has been submitted to the CNCB for the matter to be re-transferred to the correct venue.

Accordingly, the Defendant does not accept that St Helens County Court is the appropriate hearing centre for this claim, and any further conduct premised on the suitability of that venue will be challenged.

Yours faithfully,

[Defendant Name]
Title: Re: Norwich Traffic Control PCN - Unauthorised Parking - St Anne's Quarter, Norwich
Post by: Snudge88 on April 22, 2025, 11:26:26 am
No response from HMCTS yet, but this email from BWLegal today:

"Dear Snudge88,

Our Client: Norwich Traffic Control Limited
Claim Number: xxxxxxxx
Our Reference: 572677
Balance Due: £245.00

We write in respect of the above matter.

The claim has now been transferred to the County Court at St. Helens for further directions.

Our Client remains willing to resolve matters with you without the need for any further involvement from the court as this will save further time and costs from being incurred.

Please contact our offices on 0113 487 0430 to discuss the options available to you to settle this claim. In the absence of a settlement, we remain instructed to continue with the legal action and proceed to the hearing.

If you are in any doubt about the content of this email and/or require guidance/assistance on clearing the balance due to financial difficulties, we would advise you to seek free advice, alternatively you can obtain legal advice from a Solicitor.

We look forward to hearing from you.

Yours sincerely

BW Legal

Eden Moore
Paralegal Grade 2"


Do I just not dignify this with a response? Or would a brief response along the lines of "position made clear in defence, I will be seeking costs if you continue" be useful here?
Title: Re: Norwich Traffic Control PCN - Unauthorised Parking - St Anne's Quarter, Norwich
Post by: Snudge88 on April 14, 2025, 12:44:43 pm
Thanks b789 - both emails sent.
Title: Re: Norwich Traffic Control PCN - Unauthorised Parking - St Anne's Quarter, Norwich
Post by: b789 on April 14, 2025, 12:31:24 pm
This is an administrative error by the CNBC. You now have to send two urgent email/letters to both the CNBC and the other court.

Send the following to CaseProgression.CNBC@justice.gov.uk and CC in yourself and include a copy of your completed DQ:

Quote
Dear Sir/Madam,

Re: Norwich Traffic Control Ltd v [Defendant] – Claim No. [XXXXXXXX]

I am the Defendant in this matter. I have received a Notice stating that the claim has been transferred to St Helens County Court for allocation. However, this is not my local court, and I did not request it.

In my Directions Questionnaire (N180), I specified that my preferred hearing venue was [insert name of local county court], which is nearest to my home.

This appears to be an administrative error. I respectfully request that the case be re-allocated to [Local County Court], in accordance with CPR 26.2A(2) and the overriding objective.

Please confirm the correction and confirm that no allocation or directions will proceed from St Helens in the meantime.

Yours faithfully, 

[Full Name] 
[Address] 
[Email / Phone]

And send the following to civil.sthelens.countycourt@justice.gov.uk (or you can try enquiries.sthelens.countycourt@justice.gov.uk) and also CC yourself:

Quote
Subject: Incorrect Transfer – Claim No. XXXXXXXX

Dear Court Manager,

I am the Defendant in this matter. I have been informed that the case has been transferred to St Helens County Court. However, this appears to be an administrative error, as my N180 Directions Questionnaire clearly requested my local court: [insert local court].

I have written to the Civil National Business Centre (CNCB) to request correction. Kindly place a note on the file and suspend any further action until the CNCB has confirmed the appropriate court venue.

Yours faithfully,

[Defendant's Name]
Title: Re: Norwich Traffic Control PCN - Unauthorised Parking - St Anne's Quarter, Norwich
Post by: Snudge88 on April 14, 2025, 12:20:49 pm
I've received a short letter from CNBC today., dated 3rd April:

"This claim has been transferred to the County Court at St Helens for allocation.  On receipt, the file will be referred to a procedural judge who will allocate the claim to track and give case management directions.  Details of the judge's decision will be sent to you in a notice of allocation."

Is this just a stage in the process that will result in the claim ending up at my local court, as per my N180 request, or does this now need input from me?  St Helens seems a strange choice if this is where it is to be heard, given that it is nether local to me nor the claimant.
Title: Re: Norwich Traffic Control PCN - Unauthorised Parking - St Anne's Quarter, Norwich
Post by: b789 on April 09, 2025, 03:54:11 pm
It’s a tactical letter, often used:

• To appear authoritative, reasserting their narrative.
• To intimidate or pressure you into settling.
• To pre-emptively neutralise your defence points before formal evidence exchange.
• To try to fill in the gaps of their defective PoC without formally amending it (which they cannot do without permission after DQ stage).

It also helps them later say, “We tried to resolve this reasonably,” even if the content is largely boilerplate and evasive. It may be useful later to show the court that they failed to engage properly with your PoFA arguments pre-litigation, reinforcing a CPR 27.14(2)(g) unreasonable conduct costs argument.

You do not need to respond to it now. If they try to rely on points in this letter at trial without having included them in their WS, you can object on the basis of ambush and procedural unfairness.

Let us know when this has been allocated to your local court and show us any orders made by the allocation judge.
Title: Re: Norwich Traffic Control PCN - Unauthorised Parking - St Anne's Quarter, Norwich
Post by: Snudge88 on April 09, 2025, 01:49:45 pm
Hi all

Following the failed mediation, I've received the following letter from BWLegal in response to my defence.  Am I correct in thinking that, at this stage, I need do nothing else until directions are issued?

(https://i.imgur.com/01IZV9l.jpeg)

(https://i.imgur.com/Ea10OWJ.jpeg)

First two pages only.  Pages 3 onwards are some guff about instalment plans, copies of correspondence to date, and photographs of the vehicle.
Title: Re: Norwich Traffic Control PCN - Unauthorised Parking - St Anne's Quarter, Norwich
Post by: b789 on March 27, 2025, 01:56:10 pm
I wouldn't worry about it. Anything the mediator says, such as "What I'll do now is mark the mediation as failed..." is irrelevant. It is for their own internal audit process and is confidential. The court will not know anything about the mediation.
Title: Re: Norwich Traffic Control PCN - Unauthorised Parking - St Anne's Quarter, Norwich
Post by: Snudge88 on March 27, 2025, 01:48:10 pm
Update on mediation...

Made the offer of £0 - mediator initially wasn't even going to put the offer to NTC ("What I'll do now is mark the mediation as failed...").  When I pressed her to put the offer to NTC, she tried to offer her opinion on it ("I can, but I can tell you now that I don't think they'll accept it...").

What's the process for complaining about the conduct of the mediator, please?
Title: Re: Norwich Traffic Control PCN - Unauthorised Parking - St Anne's Quarter, Norwich
Post by: Snudge88 on March 04, 2025, 08:46:11 am
Mediation appointment advised for 27th March.  Looking at previous discussions about the approach to take, I'll offer £0, get it wrapped up quickly, and make a formal complaint if the mediator says anything aimed at trying to change my position.

I'll report back once directions are received, or the matter is discontinued.
Title: Re: Norwich Traffic Control PCN - Unauthorised Parking - St Anne's Quarter, Norwich
Post by: DWMB2 on February 28, 2025, 03:42:47 pm
At Section F3 they have stated that nobody will be giving evidence for the claimant at the hearing.  This seems a little odd; does it suggest that, even now, they are planning to discontinue or not attend?
This just means that Norwich Traffic Control will not be sending a witness to any hearing (if it gets that far) and will be relying on written witness statements and their lawyer on the day.

Alongside the DQ I received a covering letter containing the usual misrepresentations about CCJs, alongside yet another offer to settle.  Now that the matter has gone legal, and the covering letter was sent alongside court documents, does a deliberate misrepresentation of the process such as this constitute any sort of misconduct on their part?
It's impossible to comment on the contents of their letter without seeing it.
Title: Re: Norwich Traffic Control PCN - Unauthorised Parking - St Anne's Quarter, Norwich
Post by: Snudge88 on February 28, 2025, 03:32:33 pm
BW Legal's DQ received by post today.  Two observations arising:

At Section F3 they have stated that nobody will be giving evidence for the claimant at the hearing.  This seems a little odd; does it suggest that, even now, they are planning to discontinue or not attend?

Alongside the DQ I received a covering letter containing the usual misrepresentations about CCJs, alongside yet another offer to settle.  Now that the matter has gone legal, and the covering letter was sent alongside court documents, does a deliberate misrepresentation of the process such as this constitute any sort of misconduct on their part?
Title: Re: Norwich Traffic Control PCN - Unauthorised Parking - St Anne's Quarter, Norwich
Post by: b789 on February 26, 2025, 01:40:26 pm
It's up to you. If you can use their portal, then just use that if it allows you to upload documents. It's not really worth getting too bothered about. If you want belt and braces, just send a copy by snail mail first class with a free certificate of posting from any post office and it is deemed delivered two working days later.

THe N180 DQ is only an administrative form for the court and serving on the claimant will not make any difference. In a claim, anything served to the court has to be copied in to the claimant.
Title: Re: Norwich Traffic Control PCN - Unauthorised Parking - St Anne's Quarter, Norwich
Post by: Snudge88 on February 26, 2025, 01:36:59 pm
When you have completed the form, attach it to a single email addressed to both dq.cnbc@justice.gov.uk and enquiries@gladstonessolicitors.co.uk and CC in yourself. Make sure that the claim number is in the subject field of the email.

Thanks b789.

The solicitors here are BW Legal rather than Gladstones.  I've sent emails before to disputeresolution@bwlegal.co.uk and enquiries@bwlegal.co.uk, and have received stock responses from a no-reply essentially saying "we've got your email, but we won't respond unless you use our portal".  Am I okay to serve to these addresses, or should I make absolutely sure by posting a copy of my responses?
Title: Re: Norwich Traffic Control PCN - Unauthorised Parking - St Anne's Quarter, Norwich
Post by: b789 on February 26, 2025, 01:31:29 pm
Having received your own N180 (make sure it is not simply a copy of the claimants N180), do not use the paper form. Ignore all the other forms that came with it. you can discard those. Download your own here and fill it in on your computer. You sign it by simply typing your full name in the signature box.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/673341e779e9143625613543/N180_1124.pdf

Here are the answers to some of the less obvious questions:

• The name of the court is "Civil National Business Centre".

• To be completed by "Your full name" and you are the "Defendant".

• C1: "YES"

• D1: "NO". Reason: "I wish to question the Claimant about their evidence at a hearing in person and to expose omissions and any misleading or incorrect evidence or assertions.
Given the Claimant is a firm who complete cut & paste parking case paperwork for a living, having this case heard solely on papers would appear to put the Claimant at an unfair advantage, especially as they would no doubt prefer the Defendant not to have the opportunity to expose the issues in the Claimants template submissions or speak as the only true witness to events in question
.."

• F1: Whichever is your nearest county court. Use this to find it: https://www.find-court-tribunal.service.gov.uk/search-option

• F3: "1".

• Sign the form by simply typing your full name for the signature.

When you have completed the form, attach it to a single email addressed to both dq.cnbc@justice.gov.uk and enquiries@gladstonessolicitors.co.uk and CC in yourself. Make sure that the claim number is in the subject field of the email.
Title: Re: Norwich Traffic Control PCN - Unauthorised Parking - St Anne's Quarter, Norwich
Post by: Snudge88 on February 26, 2025, 01:04:04 pm
Directions Questionnaire now received - I assume that I download the digital copy and email it to the court in the same way as I did my defence.  Given the lack of any email address for BW Legal, I assume I'll have to serve a copy on them by post?

Most of the form seem self-explanatory/fact-based.  For the other bits and pieces I assume the following answers are correct:

Agree with small claims track? Yes
Determination without hearing? No - state factual disputes and procedural errors by claimant as the reasoning?
Hearing venue - local court
Expert evidence - no
Witnesses - 1 (me)

Am I on the right lines here?

Thanks!
Title: Re: Norwich Traffic Control PCN - Unauthorised Parking - St Anne's Quarter, Norwich
Post by: b789 on February 24, 2025, 10:35:09 am
That response is a boilerplate and normal.

You now wait to see what response NTC make through BW Legal. I doubt that the claim would be discontinued at this stage. They will likely acknowledge that their client intends to proceed and then you will receive a Directions Questionnaire (DQ). Once that has been processed, you will be given a date for a telephone mediation which is a waste of time but you are required to "attend" the call. It is not part of the judicial process and there is no judge or solicitor involved. You simply offer £0 and it is over in minutes.

After that, the case is sent to your local county court where a case management judge will review it. At that point the judge will order one of several things... the claim is struck out, the claimant is to submit further PoC (and then give you the option of submitting an amended defence) or will allocate a hearing date with deadlines for Witness Statement (WS) submissions. The claimant can still discontinue at any point up to the hearing date.
Title: Re: Norwich Traffic Control PCN - Unauthorised Parking - St Anne's Quarter, Norwich
Post by: Snudge88 on February 24, 2025, 10:06:57 am
A brief letter received from HMCTS this morning:

"I acknowledge receipt of your defence.  A copy is being served on the claimant (or the claimant's solicitor).  The claimant may contact you direct to attempt to resolve any dispute.  If the dispute cannot be resolved informally, the claimant will inform the court that he wishes to proceed.  The court will then inform you of what will happen.

"Where he wishes to proceed, the claimant must contact the court within 28 days after receiving a copy of your defence.  After that period has elapsed, the claim will be stayed.  The only action the claimant can then take will be to apply to a judge for an order lifting the stay."


I assume that this is just an automatically-generated letter, following my previous submission?  Based on the submission made and the points raised (disregarding the other issues with the ability of NTC to actually bring a valid claim), is it likely that NTC's/BW Legal's next course of action would be to discontinue the claim and start again, addressing the procedural points raised?
Title: Re: Norwich Traffic Control PCN - Unauthorised Parking - St Anne's Quarter, Norwich
Post by: Snudge88 on February 15, 2025, 01:50:17 pm
Much appreciated - all sent!
Title: Re: Norwich Traffic Control PCN - Unauthorised Parking - St Anne's Quarter, Norwich
Post by: b789 on February 15, 2025, 01:39:46 pm
Yes. Remove 8(b) and reorder the other sub-paras.

The time stamped photos do not evidence a "period of parking" because it has to be mentioned in the NtD and the NtK. Also, evidence of the vehicle parked for only 2 minutes does not show that the driver could have simply been "considering" the contractual signs before deciding not to accept and drive away. There is a minimum consideration period that has to be allowed before the driver can be contractually liable.
Title: Re: Norwich Traffic Control PCN - Unauthorised Parking - St Anne's Quarter, Norwich
Post by: Snudge88 on February 15, 2025, 01:28:30 pm
Thanks b789 - I've done the AoS and am now working on the defence letter.

Apologies but I didn't share with the forum the photographs that BW Legal subsequently provided.  They sent me a bundle of thirteen photographs, showing the vehicle in situ between 09:44:55 and 09:45:41, an additional photograph at 09:46:26 showing the vehicle with the PCN affixed to the windscreen, and a final photograph (below) showing the signage in situ.

https://i.imgur.com/9xjbszE.jpeg

Should I just remove paragraph 8b from the letter, renumber the remainder of paragraph 8, and then submit the remainder of the letter and draft order as provided?

Thanks!
Title: Re: Norwich Traffic Control PCN - Unauthorised Parking - St Anne's Quarter, Norwich
Post by: b789 on February 15, 2025, 01:03:25 pm
You can chuck all the other forms that came with the N1SDT Claim Form.

With an issue date of 13th February, you have until 4th March to submit an Acknowledgement of Service (AoS). By submitting an AoS, you would then have until 4pm on Tuesday 18th March to submit your defence. If you do not submit an AoS, then you have until 4pm on Tuesday 4th March to submit the defence.

If you want to submit an AoS then follow the instructions in this linked PDF:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/xvqu3bask5m0zir/money-claim-online-How-to-Acknowledge.pdf?dl=0

Otherwise, here is the defence and link to the draft order that goes with it. You only need to edit your name and the claim number. You sign the defence by typing your full name for the signature and date it. There is nothing to edit in the draft order.

When you're ready you send both documents as PDF attachments in an email to claimresponses.cnbc@justice.gov.uk and CC in yourself. The claim number must be in the email subject field and in the body of the email just put: "Please find attached the defence and draft order in the matter of Norwich Traffic Control Ltd v [your full name] Claim no.: [claim number]."

Quote
IN THE COUNTY COURT
Claim No: [Claim Number]

BETWEEN:

Norwich Traffic Control Ltd

Claimant

- and -

[Defendant's Full Name]


Defendant



DEFENCE

1. The Defendant denies the claim in its entirety. The Defendant asserts that there is no liability to the Claimant and that no debt is owed. The claim is without merit and does not adequately disclose any comprehensible cause of action.

2. There is a lack of precise detail in the Particulars of Claim (PoC) in respect of the factual and legal allegations made against the Defendant such that the PoC do not comply with CPR 16.4.

3. The Defendant is unable to plead properly to the PoC because:

(a) The contract referred to is not detailed or attached to the PoC in accordance with CPR PD 16(7.5);

(b) The PoC do not state the exact wording of the clause (or clauses) of the terms and conditions of the contract (or contracts) which is/are relied on;

(c) The PoC do not adequately set out the reason (or reasons) why the claimant asserts the defendant has breached the contract (or contracts)

(d) The PoC do not state with sufficient particularity exactly where the breach occurred, the exact time when the breach occurred and how long it is alleged that the vehicle was parked before the parking charge was allegedly incurred;

(e) The PoC do not state precisely how the sum claimed is calculated, including the basis for any statutory interest, damages, or other charges;

(f) The PoC do not state what proportion of the claim is the parking charge and what proportion is damages;

(g) The PoC do not provide clarity on whether the Defendant is sued as the driver or the keeper of the vehicle, as the claimant cannot plead alternative causes of action without specificity.

4. The Defendant further submits that the Claimant cannot hold the Defendant liable as the registered keeper due to non-compliance with Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA).

5. The Notice to Driver (NtD) and Notice to Keeper (NtK) failed to comply with paragraphs 7(2)(a) and 8(2)(a) of PoFA, which require the Claimant to "specify the period of parking." Instead, the notices merely record a single point in time, which is insufficient.

6. The persuasive appeal decision in Scott Brennan v Premier Parking Solutions (2023) H6DP632H supports this position. At paragraph 27, HHJ Mitchell clarified that PoFA requires a recorded minimum period of parking, not merely an instant in time. Since the Claimant has failed to do so, its notices are non-compliant and incapable of transferring liability to the keeper.

7. The Claimant is put to strict proof of the allegation that the Defendant was the driver, as no presumption of driver liability exists. In VCS v Edward (2023) HOKF6C9C, HHJ Gargan (paragraph 35) held that it is not appropriate to infer that the registered keeper was the driver in the absence of evidence. The Claimant has failed to establish PoFA compliance and cannot assume keeper liability.

8. The Claimant has failed to engage meaningfully with the Defendant's Letter of Claim (LoC) response and has not addressed critical issues, breaching the Pre-Action Protocols (PAP). The Claimant’s solicitor has:

(a) Failed to respond to the Defendant’s argument that the £60 'debt recovery' charge is unenforceable, as it was not explicitly stated on the signage, nor does it comply with the Consumer Rights Act 2015.

(b) Ignored the Defendant’s request for timestamped photographs of the signage in situ at the time of the alleged contravention, despite claiming compliance with the IPC Code of Practice.

(c) Provided a generalised statement about signage but failed to establish that the specific signage at the location was clear, legible, and compliant with contractual and consumer law.

(d) Refused to acknowledge or address the failure to specify a "period of parking" in the NtD and NtK, thereby failing to justify their attempt to hold the Keeper liable under PoFA.

(e) Misapplied ParkingEye Ltd v Beavis [2015] without demonstrating that the facts of this case align with the Beavis ruling. The Claimant’s reliance on Beavis ignores the distinctions regarding signage, the contractual basis of the charge, and whether the charge is genuinely a deterrent.

9. The Claimant’s failure to engage meaningfully with the Defendant’s response demonstrates unreasonable behaviour under CPR 27.14(2)(g) and a failure to comply with the Pre-Action Protocols (PAP). The Defendant submits that this warrants a strike-out of the claim or, in the alternative, a costs order for unreasonable conduct.

10. The Defendant attaches to this defence a copy of a draft order approved by a district judge at another court. The court struck out the claim of its own initiative after determining that the Particulars of Claim failed to comply with CPR 16.4. The judge noted that the claimant had failed to:

(i) Set out the exact wording of the clause (or clauses) of the terms and conditions relied upon;

(ii) Adequately explain the reasons why the defendant was allegedly in breach of contract;

(iii) Provide separate, detailed Particulars of Claim as permitted under CPR PD 7C.5.2(2).

(iv) The court further observed that, given the modest sum claimed, requiring further case management steps would be disproportionate and contrary to the overriding objective. Accordingly, the judge struck out the claim outright rather
than permitting an amendment.

11. The Defendant submits that the same reasoning applies in this case and invites the court to adopt a similar approach by striking out the claim for the Claimant’s failure to comply with CPR 16.4.

Statement of truth

I believe that the facts stated in this Defence are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.

Signed:


Date:

Draft Order for the defence (https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/tcewefk7daozuje25chkl/Strikeout-order-v2.pdf?rlkey=wxnymo8mwcma2jj8xihjm7pdx&st=nbtf0cn6&dl=0)
Title: Re: Norwich Traffic Control PCN - Unauthorised Parking - St Anne's Quarter, Norwich
Post by: Snudge88 on February 15, 2025, 10:25:08 am
Had a phone call from BW Legal yesterday with a recorded message telling me how stressful defending a County Court Claim would be, followed by the claim form arriving this morning:

https://i.imgur.com/MdfoXTH.jpeg

The other pages all appear to be pretty standard, being the explanatory notes and the response form, but do let me know if you need me to add these in.
Title: Re: Norwich Traffic Control PCN - Unauthorised Parking - St Anne's Quarter, Norwich
Post by: b789 on January 24, 2025, 03:08:21 pm
Let them bring it on. They have failed to address some of the points raised in the response to the LoC which means that they have not copied with the Pre Action Protocols (PAP) and this can also be used to show unreasonable behaviour.

They did not address the issue of non-compliance with PoFA to hold the Keeper liable. Ww can use the recent persuasive appeals decision in Brennan v PPS (2023) [H6DP632H] (https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/1b9rpna57dutsetdgwi60/Brennan-v-Premier-Parking-Plymouth-CC-Judgment-20230821-V-Final_-14.pdf?rlkey=203u1fav6fve811lz8cm8wpwx&st=r41k4lmf&dl=0) as good argument why the NtK does not fully comply with all the requirements of PoFA.

Come back when you receive the N1SDT Claim Form from the CNBC and show it to us, redacting only your personal details, the claim number, the vehicle VRM and the MCOL password. Leave everything else showing, especially all dates and the Particulars of Claim (PoC).
Title: Re: Norwich Traffic Control PCN - Unauthorised Parking - St Anne's Quarter, Norwich
Post by: Snudge88 on January 24, 2025, 01:13:34 pm
Latest response from BW Legal:

"Good Afternoon,

We write in response to your recent contact.

Please be advised that all evidence of your vehicle that was parked within the Car Park has been provided to you within our previous response. This includes time stamped evidence of the signage, in which you parked in front of.

At the time of the contravention, our Client was a member of the International Parking Community (IPC). The IPC is an Accredited Trade Association within the parking industry. As our Client was an established member of the IPC at the time of the contravention, it had to adhere to the IPC's Code of Practice for parking on private land. This Code of Practice gives recommendations in regards to the signage within the Car Park. The signs within the Car Park fully comply with the recommendations outlined in the Code of Practice and are therefore deemed reasonable. The signs are clearly displayed, and you would have had the opportunity to read and understand them on parking at the Car Park. An objective observer would consider this action to have been done in acceptance of the terms and conditions. The signage at the Car Park clearly incorporates the terms and conditions. For all intents and purposes, the signage is correct, and sufficient attention was brought to you with regards to the terms and conditions.

The signage clearly states 'all vehicles must be registered on the NTC database for this site'. It is your responsibility upon entering and parking within the Car Park to make yourself aware of the signs and the relevant terms and conditions. On the date of the contravention the vehicle in question was parked without authority. This is a clear breach of our clients terms and conditions.

If you were unsure of the terms and conditions associated with parking on this land, the vehicle should have been removed from the Car Park to avoid breaching any of these terms and subsequently avoid the issue of a PCN.

Please be advised the signage also clearly states 'non payment will result in additional charges'

For signage containing additional costs:

Please be advised, the signage in situ makes reference to additional costs of debt recovery being incurred due to the non-payment of a PCN. It is our Client's position that a contract was formed when your vehicle entered and remained on the land in question, in excess of the grace period, and this included the terms and conditions regarding additional costs. Our Client is satisfied that under the parking contract, the additional costs incurred are recoverable and you are liable for the same.

We trust this clarifies our position."


Predictably absolutely no mention of their failure to adhere to PFOA, so I assume that it's now time to sit tight and wait for the court papers, at which point I can absolutely crucify them for not adhering to POFA?
Title: Re: Norwich Traffic Control PCN - Unauthorised Parking - St Anne's Quarter, Norwich
Post by: b789 on January 10, 2025, 04:45:12 pm
You don't have to tell them. You have that right anyway.

Irrespective, they are going to issue a claim anyway. Just be patient.
Title: Re: Norwich Traffic Control PCN - Unauthorised Parking - St Anne's Quarter, Norwich
Post by: Snudge88 on January 10, 2025, 04:39:33 pm
Boilerplate response but you may as well have a bit of fun with them by responding with the following:

Thanks b789 - I've sent that off this afternoon.

Given that the non-compliance with PoFA would appear to render a non-starter any court claim lodged by them, is there any mileage in a shot across the bows saying something along the lines of if they decide to enter into legal proceedings, despite having been made aware of the fatal flaw to their position, I shall reserve the right to seek a costs order, given the outright unreasonableness of their conduct?

Cheers!
Title: Re: Norwich Traffic Control PCN - Unauthorised Parking - St Anne's Quarter, Norwich
Post by: b789 on December 27, 2024, 08:55:02 pm
Boilerplate response but you may as well have a bit of fun with them by responding with the following:

Quote
Dear Sirs,

Re: Your Response to My Letter of 17th December 2024

I acknowledge receipt of your email and attached documents. However, your response does not adequately address the points raised in my previous correspondence. I will reiterate and expand on my concerns below.

1. Debt Recovery Costs

You claim that the £60 "debt recovery" fee is contractually agreed upon when entering the car park. This is categorically disputed.

Lack of Contractual Basis: The signage at the location forms the basis of any purported contract. If the £60 debt recovery fee is not explicitly mentioned on the sign, it cannot be considered part of the terms agreed upon by motorists. Please provide photographic evidence of the exact signage in place at the time of the alleged contravention, showing that it clearly states this additional fee as part of the terms.

Consumer Rights Act 2015: Even if such a charge were mentioned (which is denied), any term imposing an arbitrary £60 penalty would likely be deemed an unfair contract term and unenforceable.

VAT Clarification: While you assert that your VAT-liable services are distinct, this does not explain how the £60 is calculated or why it should be recoverable from the motorist. Provide a clear breakdown of this charge and its VAT treatment.

Without evidence that the £60 charge was explicitly agreed upon and prominently displayed on the signage, this fee is unenforceable.

2. Nature of the Alleged Parking Charge

Your response suggests the parking charge is for breach of contract, yet you have also implied it is a contractual fee. This inconsistency is misleading. Please clarify:

• Was the parking charge issued as damages for a breach of contract or as a fee for a contractual service?

• If it is for breach of contract, provide evidence of how the charge is a legitimate reflection of the breach. If it is a fee, explain how the “core terms” of the contract were agreed upon by a motorist who neither parked nor authorised any contractual agreement.

3. Signage and Contractual Clarity

You assert that the vehicle was parked directly beside your client’s signage, making the terms of the contract clear. However, proximity to a sign does not necessarily equate to an acceptance of its terms, especially if the sign is unclear, ambiguous, or fails to meet legal and regulatory standards.

I require the following evidence to properly assess the validity of your claim:

Photographs of the Signage: Clear, timestamped photographs of the specific sign next to which the vehicle was parked. These should demonstrate the content, visibility, and clarity of the sign, including any relevant lighting or obstructions present at the time of the alleged contravention.

Compliance with the IPC Code of Practice: Evidence that the signage complies with the International Parking Community (IPC) Code of Practice, specifically regarding font size, contrast, placement, and visibility.

Reference to Additional Charges: If you assert that the £60 debt recovery fee is enforceable, you must provide evidence that this charge was clearly displayed on the sign. Any terms not prominently displayed cannot form part of a purported contract.

Simply parking near a sign does not amount to unequivocal acceptance of its terms, particularly if those terms are unclear, inconspicuous, or inconsistent with regulatory standards. If the sign failed to make the terms of the alleged contract clear, any claim of breach is invalid.

4. NtK and NtD Non-Compliance with PoFA

As the Registered Keeper responding to this Letter of Claim, I note that both the Notice to Driver (NtD) and the Notice to Keeper (NtK) fail to comply with the statutory requirements of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA). Specifically, they do not meet the requirement to "specify the period of parking" as mandated by paragraphs 7(2)(a) (NtD) and 8(2)(a) (NtK).

Failure to Specify "Period of Parking"

• The NtD and NtK both provide only a single timestamp of 0948, which does not constitute a "period of parking" as required under PoFA. A single timestamp merely indicates the vehicle’s presence at a specific moment in time but does not demonstrate that the vehicle was parked for a "period," as defined by law.

• PoFA explicitly requires the notice to specify "the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked, and the period of parking to which the notice relates." Without a defined period, the notices fail to establish any alleged contravention.

Relevance of "Unauthorised Parking"

• Even in cases of "unauthorised parking," PoFA mandates that the notice must "specify the period of parking." The term "parking" inherently implies a duration of time during which the vehicle was stationary. A single timestamp, such as 0948, does not substantiate the alleged contravention or demonstrate that the vehicle was parked without authorisation for any specific period.

• Without specifying a period of parking, it is impossible to determine whether the alleged breach occurred or whether the vehicle was legitimately stationary for a reasonable duration, such as to read unclear signage.

Non-Compliance Undermines Keeper Liability

As liability under PoFA depends on strict compliance with its requirements, the failure to specify a period of parking in both the NtD and NtK means that your client cannot transfer liability to the registered keeper. Any further attempts to pursue the alleged debt against me as the Keeper are baseless and constitute unreasonable behaviour.

5. Misapplication of the Beavis Case

It is astonishing that your client and yourselves, their bulk-litigation representative, continue to refer to ParkingEye Ltd v Beavis [2015] as though it is some kind of universal panacea that legitimises all parking charge notices (PCNs), regardless of the specific facts of the case or the legal framework. This misuse of the Beavis precedent demonstrates an embarrassing lack of understanding of its scope and applicability.

Fundamental Differences Between This Case and Beavis

The circumstances of Beavis involved a free retail car park with clear and prominent signage, where the charge was deemed commercially justified as a deterrent to overstaying. Key factors considered by the Supreme Court included:

• The clear and prominent nature of the signage.

• The legitimate interest of the landowner in managing parking for commercial benefit.

• The absence of terms or charges that were disproportionate or extravagant.

In stark contrast:

1. The alleged contravention in this case involves "unauthorised parking," not overstaying in a free car park. The Beavis principles do not automatically apply.

2. The signage relied upon by your client has not been demonstrated to meet the same standard of clarity and prominence as in Beavis.

3. Your client seeks to impose an additional £60 "debt recovery" charge that was not mentioned in Beavis and appears to be an arbitrary penalty, inconsistent with the Consumer Rights Act 2015.

Irrelevance of Beavis to This Matter

Your attempt to rely on Beavis without addressing these fundamental differences only serves to undermine your position and highlights the flawed nature of your claim. To treat Beavis as a one-size-fits-all justification for PCNs shows an alarming disregard for the nuances of contract law and the specific circumstances required for the Beavis principles to apply.

Conclusion on Misapplication

The reference to Beavis in this case does not strengthen your client’s claim—it weakens it by drawing attention to the significant deficiencies in their approach. Should this matter proceed to court, I will not hesitate to bring your client’s misuse of Beavis to the court's attention as evidence of poor litigation practice and a lack of legal understanding.

6. Data Protection and Address for Service

You have failed to confirm that any outdated address has been erased from your records in compliance with data protection obligations. I repeat my request for confirmation that my current address for service is the only one held on file.

Conclusion

Your response has failed to justify the alleged debt or meaningfully address the serious concerns I raised, particularly regarding the lack of compliance with PoFA, the absence of a contractual basis for additional charges, and the misapplication of legal precedent. I maintain that the alleged debt is disputed, and should you proceed with legal action, I will robustly defend the claim, highlighting your client’s unreasonable and potentially unlawful conduct.

I remind you of your obligations under the Overriding Objective and the Pre-Action Protocols to avoid unnecessary court proceedings. Should you continue to provide inadequate responses or pursue this baseless claim, I will ensure that your client’s conduct and misuse of legal processes are brought to the court’s attention.

Yours faithfully,

[Your Name]
Title: Re: Norwich Traffic Control PCN - Unauthorised Parking - St Anne's Quarter, Norwich
Post by: Snudge88 on December 27, 2024, 07:44:55 pm
Thanks b789, I emailed them your recommended communication, and received the below response:

"Good Afternoon

We write with regards to the above matter and your contact email received.

Please find the attached zip file, containing photographs of your vehicle, parked without authorisation during the contravention, as well as the Notice to Keeper issued by our Client.

Please note that Debt recovery costs are contractually agreed by the motorist when visiting the car park.  They only apply when the opportunity to pay the parking charge has expired and the parking company has been forced to commence debt recovery activities.  Such contractual costs are recognised by the courts as covering debt recovery activity between the expiry of the parking charge notice and the commencement of litigation, including pre-litigation correspondence.

The fees we charge our clients for our services are subject to VAT.  However, these are separate and distinct from contractual debt recovery costs recoverable by our client from the motorist.

We must also note that this would not negate the Parking Charge issued to you, as your vehicle was not authorised to park in-situ, as no valid permit or virtual permit was found by the Parking Attendant at the time of the contravention, nor any permit displayed in the windscreen of the vehicle.

In regards to your second point, The Charge you have been issued with represents the breach of a core term within the parking contract which was formed when your vehicle entered and remained on private land in excess of the grace period and subsequently breached when your vehicle parked without authorisation. Furthermore, in 2015, the Supreme Court case of ParkingEye v Beavis confirmed that the parking charge was not about loss, but a legitimate charge to deter motorists from breaching the contract under which they are permitted to use the car park.

Please be advised, we hold photographic evidence of the PCN affixed to your vehicle on the date of contravention, and have attached it to the email, showing it was issued correctly, and it can be assumed you received the PCN as a result. If an unauthorised third party removed this PCN from the vehicle after it was issued, this is no fault of our Client's.

We would further note that the vehicle was parked directly beside our Client’s clear signage, making motorists aware of the contractual agreement and charges entered by entering and/or remaining on the land.

We trust this clarifies the matter.

Should you have any further enquiries, please use the below methods of communication."

Looks like a mix of boilerplate, and responses to the specific points that you recommended that I make.

Any particular thoughts? Or is now the time to sit tight and see if a court form arrives?
Title: Re: Norwich Traffic Control PCN - Unauthorised Parking - St Anne's Quarter, Norwich
Post by: b789 on December 21, 2024, 09:14:24 pm
The LoC is not fully compliant in that it does not explain how the original charge of £100 has now become £160.

Respond to it, any time before 16th January with the following:

Quote
Dear Sirs,

Re: Letter of Claim dated 17th December 2024

I refer to your Letter of Claim.

I confirm that my address for service at this time is as follows, and I request that any outdated address be erased from your records to ensure compliance with data protection obligations:

[YOUR ADDRESS]

Please note that the alleged debt is disputed, and any court proceedings will be robustly defended.

I note that the sum claimed has been increased by an excessive and unjustifiable amount, which appears contrary to the principles established by the Government, who described such practices as “extorting money from motorists.” Please refrain from sending boilerplate responses or justifications regarding this issue.

Under the Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims, I require specific answers to the following questions:

1. Does the additional £60 represent what you describe as a “Debt Recovery” fee? If so, is this figure net of or inclusive of VAT? If inclusive, I trust you will explain why I, as the alleged debtor, am being asked to cover your client’s VAT liability.

2. Regarding the principal sum of the alleged Parking Charge Notice (PCN), is this being claimed as damages for breach of contract, or will it be pleaded as consideration for a purported parking contract?

I would caution you against simply dismissing these questions with vague or boilerplate responses, as I am fully aware of the implications. By claiming that PCNs are exempt from VAT while simultaneously inflating the debt recovery element, your client – with your assistance – appears to be evading VAT obligations due to HMRC. Such mendacious conduct raises serious questions about the legality and ethics of your and your clients practices.

I strongly advise your client to cease and desist. Should this matter proceed to court, you can be assured that these issues will be brought to the court’s attention, alongside a robust defence and potentially a counterclaim for unreasonable conduct.

Yours faithfully,


[YOUR NAME]
Title: Re: Norwich Traffic Control PCN - Unauthorised Parking - St Anne's Quarter, Norwich
Post by: Snudge88 on December 21, 2024, 07:36:52 pm
Hi All

A quick update on this one.  I've received a couple of the usual chaser letters from BW Legal followed, today, by the below 'Letter of Claim':

(https://i.imgur.com/Euhu8pe.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/J1Hbzk0.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/fptiOM9.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/s20zE2O.jpeg)

The enclosures are pretty pro-forma - an 'Information Sheet' written in the third-person to give the impression of independent advice, a 'Reply Form' written in the same way, and a BW Legal-branded 'Income & Expenditure Form' - all designed, one assumes, to give the impression of legitimacy to the current charade.

Two questions arise from this:

Does the 'Letter of Claim' meet the standard as required by the pre-action protocol?

For those with experience of BW Legal - how often do they tend to follow through on their threats of legal action?

Thanks!
Title: Re: Norwich Traffic Control PCN - Unauthorised Parking - St Anne's Quarter, Norwich
Post by: Emil on October 30, 2024, 09:10:50 pm
I just came across this thread. It might be useful to know that the faded sign is attached to a building that is not part of the St Anne's Quarter development, and may refer to the area around the edge of Dragon Hall, King Street. The Orbit visitor parking area, and another nearby has clear signage displayed. Two yellow signs can be seen on the blue hoardings in the photo provided by the OP.

Title: Re: Norwich Traffic Control PCN - Unauthorised Parking - St Anne's Quarter, Norwich
Post by: DWMB2 on September 14, 2024, 08:29:41 pm
Those are all useful points... In terms of the order in which you present, bear in mind that in the Code of Practice, "should" is not the same as "must".

Things that the code says they "must" do should (no pun intended) in my view be afforded more prominence in any appeal/Defence than things it says they "should" do, which implies something which is good practice, but not necessarily mandatory.

As an example, the fact that their signs are not made of suitably robust matierial isn't all that important on its own, but, this has led to the text becoming illegible, which is important, as a motorist cannot be bound by terms that have not been adequately brought to his attention.
Title: Re: Norwich Traffic Control PCN - Unauthorised Parking - St Anne's Quarter, Norwich
Post by: Snudge88 on September 14, 2024, 07:54:00 pm
Keep the video as the entrance sign is not even visible as you go in. Have a read of page 27 of the IPC Code of Practice (CoP) and tell us if you think that signs conforms to the requirements?

IPC Code of Practice v9 (https://irp.cdn-website.com/262226a6/files/uploaded/IPC%20Code%20of%20PracticeV9%20V4.pdf)

It seems to be a veritable smorgasbord of ineptitude...

Entry Sign

T&Cs Sign

Anything I've missed here?
Title: Re: Norwich Traffic Control PCN - Unauthorised Parking - St Anne's Quarter, Norwich
Post by: DWMB2 on September 14, 2024, 01:33:48 pm
Even from close up that entrance sign is faded to the point of near illegibility.
Title: Re: Norwich Traffic Control PCN - Unauthorised Parking - St Anne's Quarter, Norwich
Post by: b789 on September 14, 2024, 01:30:24 pm
Keep the video as the entrance sign is not even visible as you go in. Have a read of page 27 of the IPC Code of Practice (CoP) and tell us if you think that signs conforms to the requirements?

IPC Code of Practice v9 (https://irp.cdn-website.com/262226a6/files/uploaded/IPC%20Code%20of%20PracticeV9%20V4.pdf)
Title: Re: Norwich Traffic Control PCN - Unauthorised Parking - St Anne's Quarter, Norwich
Post by: Snudge88 on September 14, 2024, 11:52:54 am
I went back to site today to get some additional photos/video. Here's the driver's-eye-view video I made of accessing the site:

https://youtu.be/BjsleI5ljhk?feature=shared

There is a sign upon entering the site, but it is anything but prominent. It's pretty much hidden behind a buttress on an adjoining building:

https://i.imgur.com/d45XpJA.jpeg

Full sign:

https://i.imgur.com/28p9ptH.jpeg

Text of warning signs:

https://i.imgur.com/d2jzKsT.jpeg

And here's the general 'turn-in' view, showing just how obscured the entry sign is:

(https://i.imgur.com/abG8bT4.jpeg)

Any thoughts? Let me know if there are any more images etc., that might be useful.
Title: Re: Norwich Traffic Control PCN - Unauthorised Parking - St Anne's Quarter, Norwich
Post by: b789 on September 11, 2024, 06:17:19 pm
To be honest, as they are IPC members, there is little point in challenging them to anything. You are dealing with greedy ex-clampers who are only interested in getting as much money out of you as possible.

Maybe the others on here will suggest otherwise, however, if I were in your position, I would sit tight and wait and see if they decide to take it court. They may never do so. They may threaten to do so and still not do so. They may even start a claim but not bother to see it all the way through in the hope that the threat of litigation is enough to scare you into paying.

You will receive a load of reminders and subsequently, loads of debt collector letters, which can all be ignored as they have no power to do anything and are sent with the same purpose of trying to scare you into capitulating and paying up. The only thing you would need to look out for is a Letter of Claim (LoC) which will look similar to a debt collection letter but will give you 30 days to pay as opposed to all the debt collector letters which only give you 14 or less days to pay.

If you get an LoC, then come back. Whilst it is advisable to respond to an LoC, it is not essential. However, as an LoC is a precursor to an actual county court claim, (if) when an actual N1SDT claim form arrives, it must be responded to and you should let us know so that we can provide the correct guidance and advice.

As the county court is the ultimate dispute resolution service, it is in any defence that you can plead the breaches of PoFA etc.
Title: Re: Norwich Traffic Control PCN - Unauthorised Parking - St Anne's Quarter, Norwich
Post by: Snudge88 on September 11, 2024, 05:18:41 pm
You may want to redact your personal data from those photos, such as your name, address, VRM and PCN number. I just tried to log into the appeals website with your details and it say the following:

(https://i.imgur.com/FzhvMYz.png)

The NtK is mostly PoFA compliant as far as I can see except for the "period of parking" being only specified as "the period immediately preceding...".

The NtD and the NtK both fail to comply with PoFA paragraphs 7(2)(a) and 8(2)(a) respectively, which require the notice to "specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked, and the period of parking to which the notice relates."

The NtD and NtK provided by NTC do not specify a period of parking, but instead only give a single timestamp of 0948. A single point in time does not constitute a "period" of parking as required by law. The notices should indicate the duration during which the vehicle was allegedly parked.

If the alleged contravention states "Unauthorised parking" and the NtD or NtK only provide a single point in time without specifying the period of parking, it does not comply with the requirements of PoFA, even with the "unauthorised parking" allegation.

PoFA still mandates that the notice must "specify the period of parking" regardless of the nature of the contravention, whether it's for overstaying, failing to pay, or "unauthorised parking." The reason is that the term "parking" inherently refers to a period during which the vehicle is stationary. Therefore, to prove "unauthorised parking", NTC must establish that the vehicle was parked for a specific period without authorisation, not just at a single moment.

A single timestamp, such as 0948, does not show the vehicle was "parked" or unauthorised for a period of time, making it difficult to substantiate the contravention. The failure to specify a period of parking is non-compliant with the statutory requirements of PoFA.

However, you are dealing with an IPC member and no appeal (not that, apparently, they are giving you any chance to appeal anyway) is going to succeed with them or the IAS. You are going to have to sit this out, ignoring all reminders and debt collector letters and wait and see if/when they decide to issue a claim for the alleged debt. If/when they do, then come back and we can advise on how to defend any claim.

TO assist you in future, if/when they decide to try and make a claim, you are advised to get your own evidential photos of the entrance to the location and an overview of the actual car park area and a close up of the terms signs so that we can scrutinise them for breaches of contract law and the IPC Code of Practice (CoP).

Thanks b789, much appreciated.  I've uploaded new images - I hadn't realised that my personal details are emblazoned all over the fourth page as well!

Is it worth pre-emptively contacting them to state that their NTK and NTD are not POFA compliant (and that I shall be using this defence should they choose to take further action) in an attempt to nip any further action in the bud?  Or is it better to sit tight and wait and see what they do next?
Title: Re: Norwich Traffic Control PCN - Unauthorised Parking - St Anne's Quarter, Norwich
Post by: b789 on September 11, 2024, 04:21:28 pm
You may want to redact your personal data from those photos, such as your name, address, VRM and PCN number. I just tried to log into the appeals website with your details and it say the following:

(https://i.imgur.com/FzhvMYz.png)

The NtK is mostly PoFA compliant as far as I can see except for the "period of parking" being only specified as "the period immediately preceding...".

The NtD and the NtK both fail to comply with PoFA paragraphs 7(2)(a) and 8(2)(a) respectively, which require the notice to "specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked, and the period of parking to which the notice relates."

The NtD and NtK provided by NTC do not specify a period of parking, but instead only give a single timestamp of 0948. A single point in time does not constitute a "period" of parking as required by law. The notices should indicate the duration during which the vehicle was allegedly parked.

If the alleged contravention states "Unauthorised parking" and the NtD or NtK only provide a single point in time without specifying the period of parking, it does not comply with the requirements of PoFA, even with the "unauthorised parking" allegation.

PoFA still mandates that the notice must "specify the period of parking" regardless of the nature of the contravention, whether it's for overstaying, failing to pay, or "unauthorised parking." The reason is that the term "parking" inherently refers to a period during which the vehicle is stationary. Therefore, to prove "unauthorised parking", NTC must establish that the vehicle was parked for a specific period without authorisation, not just at a single moment.

A single timestamp, such as 0948, does not show the vehicle was "parked" or unauthorised for a period of time, making it difficult to substantiate the contravention. The failure to specify a period of parking is non-compliant with the statutory requirements of PoFA.

However, you are dealing with an IPC member and no appeal (not that, apparently, they are giving you any chance to appeal anyway) is going to succeed with them or the IAS. You are going to have to sit this out, ignoring all reminders and debt collector letters and wait and see if/when they decide to issue a claim for the alleged debt. If/when they do, then come back and we can advise on how to defend any claim.

TO assist you in future, if/when they decide to try and make a claim, you are advised to get your own evidential photos of the entrance to the location and an overview of the actual car park area and a close up of the terms signs so that we can scrutinise them for breaches of contract law and the IPC Code of Practice (CoP).
Title: Re: Norwich Traffic Control PCN - Unauthorised Parking - St Anne's Quarter, Norwich
Post by: Snudge88 on September 11, 2024, 02:53:52 pm
NTK now received (received today, despite the date of sending stating 3rd September 2024).  Details below:

(https://i.imgur.com/RPaPH5i.jpeg)

(https://i.imgur.com/0y35ue5.jpeg)

(https://i.imgur.com/2MyzMLW.jpeg)

(https://i.imgur.com/7Sjujwq.jpeg)

Is the notice POFA compliant?  Otherwise, does anyone have any experience of Norwich Traffic Control?  Are they the kind to avoid taking matters to court if there is any hint that the keeper is up for a fight, or are they best not to be messed with?
Title: Re: Norwich Traffic Control PCN - Unauthorised Parking - St Anne's Quarter, Norwich
Post by: The Rookie on August 14, 2024, 07:07:00 pm
Did the contractual signs (not shared) give any restrictions on visitors parking such as needing a visitors permit or logging in to a terminal?
Title: Re: Norwich Traffic Control PCN - Unauthorised Parking - St Anne's Quarter, Norwich
Post by: Snudge88 on August 14, 2024, 06:05:05 pm
As it is an IPC operator, just wait for the NtK to be issued.

Cheers, b789.

I'll wait for the NTK and then come back once it arrives.
Title: Re: Norwich Traffic Control PCN - Unauthorised Parking - St Anne's Quarter, Norwich
Post by: b789 on August 14, 2024, 05:58:33 pm
As it is an IPC operator, just wait for the NtK to be issued.
Title: Re: Norwich Traffic Control PCN - Unauthorised Parking - St Anne's Quarter, Norwich
Post by: Snudge88 on August 14, 2024, 05:45:05 pm
Bump - anyone able to offer any input, please?
Title: Re: Norwich Traffic Control PCN - Unauthorised Parking - St Anne's Quarter, Norwich
Post by: Snudge88 on August 05, 2024, 12:27:11 pm
As a further update, the driver has spoken with Orbit who have said that they are unable to cancel the charge.

Is there anything the driver should be doing as a matter of urgency or, with windscreen tickets, is it a case of waiting until the NTK is received in the post?
Title: Norwich Traffic Control PCN - Unauthorised Parking - St Anne's Quarter, Norwich
Post by: Snudge88 on August 02, 2024, 02:13:11 pm
The driver attended a property at Orbit Homes' St Anne's Quarter development in Norwich, in order to provide professional services to its owner.  The driver noted the extremely large 'Visitors Parking' sign to the car park, and left the vehicle there at approximately 0945hrs whilst visiting the subject property.  Upon their return approximately 5-10 minutes after parking, they noted that the following PCN had been affixed to their windscreen:

(https://i.imgur.com/azymMa1.jpeg)

(https://i.imgur.com/51xvuwr.jpeg)

(https://i.imgur.com/oVesI6n.jpeg)

The first image is a bit poor - the PCN states no 'first seen at' time, and the time of issue is 0946hrs.

The below image shows the car park, with broader context available here (https://maps.app.goo.gl/weY24BGRmdk92bbV7)

(https://i.imgur.com/v2eDp1E.jpeg)

This is the large 'visitor parking' sign, in front of which the driver parked:

(https://i.imgur.com/02HRUeZ.jpg)

The driver did not obtain photographs of the signage in the car park, but typical NTC yellow signs are visible in the image above, and contained text stating that vehicles had to be registered with the NTC database.

Any and all advice greatly appreciated!