Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: Joe Bloggs on July 30, 2024, 03:13:27 pm
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Useful response as they concede the signage is confusing at least and maybe don't want the missing yellow line tested at the tribunal.
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Response:
[attachment deleted by admin]
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Will do.
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Sounds like they cancelled - can you chase it up as it would be useful to see the response.
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PCN is listed as closed - supposedly they replied five weeks ago, but I have received neither email nor letter.
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Have had no response to my appeal, so hopefully it’s gone away by now…
Be careful ! They may have responded but the letter is lost in the post, so you need to check the PCN status. I presume you haven't moved house in the interim.
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Have had no response to my appeal, so hopefully it’s gone away by now…
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Love and marriage
Horse and carriage - which most of the adjudicators have driven through the regs based purely on looking at the signs.
It seems Westminster has given up saying Queensway is an RPZ, as adjudicators have seen the lack of zone entry signs.
That leaves a decent appeal that builds on the case I cited.
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'Usual practice', WTF, it's the law!
A sign has NO effect on its own, apart from anything else it doesn't convey any spatial info e.g. where the restriction begins or ends. Its role is to provide the detailed complement to a single yellow line. Ditto for single kerb blips.
Love and marriage: you can't have one without the other!
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Fantastic, that’s very useful.
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Well well - but I suspect this may be an outlier but it's recent (the Queensway scheme is fairly recent though).
2230510721
Contravention date 13 Jul 2023
Queensway
Parked or loading/unloading during a loading ban
Decision Date 08 Feb 2024
Adjudicator Edward Houghton
Appeal decision Appeal allowed
The Appellant, however, submits that the signage was confusing. The time plate shown in the photograph complies with the Traffic Signs Regulations and General directions 2016, and what it states is clear enough when read carefully. However it is a very “busy” sign and one which is not supported by any yellow line or kerb markings to draw the motorist’s attention immediately on parking to the fact that at certain times there is a waiting/loading restriction in force. In the case of lengths of carriageway which at times operate as a designated parking place and at others a restricted street – a not uncommon situation in London - the normal practice is to indicate the dual function by both bay markings and yellow lines/kerb markings; and although in the present case the designated parking place is indicated by differentiated surfacing rather than lines it seems to me that that is not a good reason for departing from this usual practice On the facts of this case I am unable to be satisfied the restriction relied on was adequately drawn to the motorist's attention and the Appeal is therefore allowed.
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Lack of yellow line was my first thought - difficult to see that it isn’t just about revenue.
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We had a good go at Queensway on the old forum. I even went there to take pics. I can't recall if we got anywhere but:
- There are no parking zone entry signs
- I think a part time waiting/loading restriction should have a yellow line.
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Recently briefly parked on Queensway, W2 for about twenty minutes at about 20:50 on a weekday evening - parking here is in purpose-built bays off the carriageway which have normal white-lined markings between spaces - there are no road lines or other markings on or next to the carriageway.
I always check the time board for restrictions in town, and, looking out of the car window, the sign here says Pay by Phone hours are 8.30am-6.30pm, Mon-Sat, as you might expect. Happy with that, I parked (between two other cars) and left the car.
When I came back to the car, I had the ticket - “Code 02, Parked or loading/unloading in a restricted street where waiting and loading/unloading restrictions are in force”. On closer inspection, out of the car, the parking sign is about three feet high and, at the very top is a restriction on parking after the end of the pay by phone restricted times (ie you cannot park at all apart from the hours in the day when you must pay).
This seems a ridiculously counter-intuitive and confusing regime compared with every other usual parking restriction in London, particularly when the spaces in question aren’t even on the carriageway and there are absolutely no yellow lines or other restriction markings on the bays or carriageways.
I can only assume Westminster know it makes them a lot of money and have tested the signage/markings, but… any advice?
Can’t embed images, so they are hopefully visible with the link below:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/cTBWBzt4GqtgbxFh8