Free Traffic Legal Advice

Live cases legal advice => Private parking tickets => Topic started by: InnocentDriver on July 29, 2024, 01:09:30 pm

Title: Re: Predatory PCN from SmartParking (OK Diner, Oswestry)
Post by: DWMB2 on November 03, 2025, 10:53:50 am
In line with our house rules (https://www.ftla.uk/announcements/house-rules/), please start your own thread if you want advice on your case.
Title: Re: Predatory PCN from SmartParking (OK Diner, Oswestry)
Post by: Manse87 on November 03, 2025, 10:41:39 am
Hi all,

I have just been sent a parking fine for the same thing but I only parked in the carpark next due to the Starbucks carpark being full. Could you advise on how to go about this now?
Title: Re: Predatory PCN from SmartParking (OK Diner, Oswestry)
Post by: DWMB2 on July 29, 2024, 05:11:31 pm
Quote from: InnocentDriver on July 29, 2024, 04:54:27 pm
What is it exactly that we are looking for?
Essentially, anything that shows they did not have a valid agreement between them and the owner of the land to issue parking charges and pursue legal action in their own name. As I said, it used to be the case* that whenever anyone appealed to POPLA and as part of that appeal put Smart to proof that they did indeed have a contract in place, Smart withdrew the charge, meaning the case doesn't go to assessment, and the parking charge is cancelled. I don't know why they did this, but one can only assume it is because there is a widespread issue with their contracts, which they are keen to avoid coming to light.

Here's an example of the Landowner Authority point being made over on the MSE forum: https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/71287628#Comment_71287628 (https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/71287628#Comment_71287628)

*the reason I say "used to" is because I haven't seen a Smart case go to POPLA for a while, as we can usually get them cancelled on the first go.
Title: Re: Predatory PCN from SmartParking (OK Diner, Oswestry)
Post by: InnocentDriver on July 29, 2024, 04:54:27 pm
Thanks to both of you. Lesson learn regarding self-identification... :/

Sorry, file.io decided to remove my submission for some reason. Here's a dropbox link to the appeal and Smart's response: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/6qo2l3vf23i4umvvqa4p5/AAk-MT03oqyUY6GOAdujFwU?rlkey=kfs5yr1rdlwy5onyfsu3z7gog&st=034iuiit&dl=0.

Regarding the contract between SmartParking and the landowner. What is it exactly that we are looking for? As far as I understand from public communications by OK Diner management it seems that they have some agreement with Smart, so what would make their agreement invalid, specifically?

Title: Re: Predatory PCN from SmartParking (OK Diner, Oswestry)
Post by: b789 on July 29, 2024, 04:43:37 pm
Have you received the Norice to Hirer (NtH) in your own name yet? As noted above, the Hire company did not name you as the driver because they cannot know you were driving. All they will have done is nominate you as the Hirer.

You shot yourself in the foot by identifying yourself, the Hirer, as the driver. As Smary will not have complied with all the requirements of PoFA, they would not have been able to hold you liable as then hirer. Too late for that now.

You are liable as the driver and will have to appeal to POPLA on points of law and the BPA Code of Practice (CoP). Do not think about mitigation, they will not consider it.

Check your hire agreement for the wording about your responsibility for “fines” and “penalties” etc. what you received is neither a “fine” nor a “penalty” and no “offence” of any sort has occurred. What you have received (or will receive once it is in your name) is a speculative invoice from an unregulated private parking company for an alleged breach of contract between the driver and Smart Parking.

If your agreement does not mention charges/invoices from private companies, then you should dispute the £40 admin charge through your card provider and make sure that it is charged back to your account.

Your appeal will have to be on signage and  fact that Smart Parking probably do not have a valid contract with the landowner to issue PCNs at the location.

If the Hire company gave Smart an old address of yours, your very first action must be to tell the Smart DPO to rectify your data with your current address for service and for them to erase your old address. Without doing that, you are likely to receive a CCJ by default.
Title: Re: Predatory PCN from SmartParking (OK Diner, Oswestry)
Post by: DWMB2 on July 29, 2024, 03:44:23 pm
Quote from: InnocentDriver on July 29, 2024, 02:22:32 pm
Please find the appeal and response files here: https://file.io/YzAlxq6GSnJt.
This link doesn't work for me - can you use Imgur or Dropbox etc.?

Quote from: InnocentDriver on July 29, 2024, 02:22:32 pm
I believe the car rental had already told Smart that I am the driver
It's not particularly important in this case as you identified the driver yourself, but the rental company will (or at least should) have nominated you as the hirer. Unless they were in the car with you, they cannot state who was driving.

Quote from: InnocentDriver on July 29, 2024, 02:22:32 pm
My appeal was mainly due to lack of signage (no signage on entry, no signage where parked, and not clearly distinguished from a nearby Starbucks parking lot), so I was hoping to go on that. Can POPLA request Smart provides evidence at the time of the offense?
You can certainly put them to proof, and they'd be required to provide evidence that the signage was there - They wouldn't be expected to produce photos of the signs on the day, but they'd need to show that signage was there, i.e. with recent photos. The issue you may have is that Smart have seemingly been brought in after the Google Street View images you shared (I say this as the PCN was issued using Automatic Number Plate Recognition [ANPR] cameras, and I can't see any on Street View.

Quote from: InnocentDriver on July 29, 2024, 02:22:32 pm
What is the downside if I appeal and lose and would I owe anything else besides this fine?
You don't owe anything unless a judge says so - POPLA is not binding on you, and if Smart wanted to enforce the alleged debt they would need to sue you in the county court (small claims track). They would no doubt add on debt collection costs of £70, which can be challenged even if you lose, and can claim some limited fees for legal representation (usually £50), and court fees (£35). That's assuming they go to court at all, we don't see all that many Smart claims, I'm not sure how litigious (if at all) they are.

Also, as I mentioned further up, if they've still not sorted their contract issues out, then that used to be a guaranteed withdrawal at POPLA, we can help you with the wording on that point.
Title: Re: Predatory PCN from SmartParking (OK Diner, Oswestry)
Post by: InnocentDriver on July 29, 2024, 02:22:32 pm
Yes, after reading on here for a while I have realised that I have messed up by not going here first.

Please find the PCN I got from the car rental here: https://imgur.com/a/hG67jLQ

I believe the car rental had already told Smart that I am the driver, since they gave them my name and (old) address (I have since moved from the address, so never received the physical mail). But, to top it off, I have also identified myself as a driver in my appeal letter. The appeal was rejected without counter-evidence. Please find the appeal and response files here: https://file.io/YzAlxq6GSnJt.

So I don't think I can play this unidentified driver card.

Do you think it is still possible to appeal? My appeal was mainly due to lack of signage (no signage on entry, no signage where parked, and not clearly distinguished from a nearby Starbucks parking lot), so I was hoping to go on that. They rejected it, of course, without providing evidence.

One thing I have noticed is that SmartParking is a new thing at most OK Diner locations (many complaints online), and I am worried that they may have installed signs _after_ they issued the PCN to me. Unfortunately, I do not have any more recent photos since I don't live nearby, and in fact have moved abroad since. Can POPLA request Smart provides evidence at the time of the offense? What is the downside if I appeal and lose and would I owe anything else besides this fine?

Here are also some complaints of other people getting the charges (some were customers and some aren't) at different locations, where a portion of them also specify lack of signage.

And thanks for the tip about Smart contract issues!
Title: Re: Predatory PCN from SmartParking (OK Diner, Oswestry)
Post by: DWMB2 on July 29, 2024, 01:28:15 pm
What's done is done, but for future reference, be sure to come here before appealing for any future charges - Smart Parking are one of the easier companies to beat with our advice.

Firstly - please read the following thread and provide as much of the information it asks for as you are able. In particular we could do with seeing:
[li]If you have any more recent photos of the car park, to show the signage hasn't changed since April
[/li][/list]

Once you've updated with the above we will be able to advise. It used to be the case that Smart had an issue with their contracts - I've not seen the issue challenged for a while, so I don't know if it is still the case, but putting them to proof that they had a contract in place with the landowner used to see them withdraw at the POPLA stage.
Title: Predatory PCN from SmartParking (OK Diner, Oswestry)
Post by: InnocentDriver on July 29, 2024, 01:09:30 pm
Hi all, I would appreciate advice on what is the best course of action against a parking charge from SmartParking.
I've travelled to North Wales on the 10th of June with a rental car. On the way back I stopped at a Starbucks to get coffee and use the bathroom. I parked at what I thought was a shared parking lot between the Starbucks and OK Diner, and left after 11 minutes (https://maps.app.goo.gl/cN7JjiVxk2P7CefW8 (https://maps.app.goo.gl/cN7JjiVxk2P7CefW8)). (The parking lot was empty so I could have parked anywhere, but I didn't think much of it.)
One month later I have received a parking charge notice (PCN) that was forwarded to me by the car rental, issued by SmartParking. The PCN has photos of my rental car entering and leaving the parking lot, and the reason for the charge is "Parked without authorisation". The fine is £100 (+£40 for admin from the rental).

I remember I looked around for parking signs when I parked, and as I didn't see any I thought it was ok to park there. I have submitted an appeal with SmartParking due to insufficient signage and have provided the following proof:

  • Proof 1: https://www.google.com/maps/@52.8497824,-3.0295109,3a,48.5y,338.23h,81.34t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sdSh_5HYBdrpBpqQ40mtpWg!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DdSh_5HYBdrpBpqQ40mtpWg%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.share%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26yaw%3D338.230482330927%26pitch%3D8.66289819446628%26thumbfov%3D90!7i16384!8i8192?coh=205410&entry=ttu (https://www.google.com/maps/@52.8497824,-3.0295109,3a,48.5y,338.23h,81.34t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sdSh_5HYBdrpBpqQ40mtpWg!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DdSh_5HYBdrpBpqQ40mtpWg%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.share%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26yaw%3D338.230482330927%26pitch%3D8.66289819446628%26thumbfov%3D90!7i16384!8i8192?coh=205410&entry=ttu) . Please note that in this Google Street View image taken on April of 2024, there is no signage regarding the parking charges neither at the entrance to the parking lot, nor in front of the Diner, where we parked. We parked at the 3rd spot to the left of the entrance to the Diner.
  • Proof 2: https://www.google.com/maps/@52.8497824,-3.0295109,3a,50.7y,14.65h,82.31t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sdSh_5HYBdrpBpqQ40mtpWg!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DdSh_5HYBdrpBpqQ40mtpWg%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.share%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26yaw%3D14.650340097551524%26pitch%3D7.686141666960793%26thumbfov%3D90!7i16384!8i8192?coh=205410&entry=ttu (https://www.google.com/maps/@52.8497824,-3.0295109,3a,50.7y,14.65h,82.31t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sdSh_5HYBdrpBpqQ40mtpWg!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DdSh_5HYBdrpBpqQ40mtpWg%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.share%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26yaw%3D14.650340097551524%26pitch%3D7.686141666960793%26thumbfov%3D90!7i16384!8i8192?coh=205410&entry=ttu) . Please note that the two parking lots, belonging to OK Diner and Starbucks, are adjacent, and there is no signage stating that the parking lot on the left is for OK Diner's customers only. 
  • Additionally, I've noticed that this issue with OK Diners is widespread and there were also many people charged at another location, with similar complaints about insufficient signage: https://en.parkopedia.co.uk/parking/carpark/ok_diner/hr6/kimbolton/ (https://en.parkopedia.co.uk/parking/carpark/ok_diner/hr6/kimbolton/)

I have submitted all this to SmartParking, but they have rejected it. They say that their signage is BPA approved "There are several signs situated around the car park that advise of the terms and conditions and we can confirm all signage on site is BPA approved.", but didn't provide any evidence to the contrary of my evidence.

Unfortunately, the Google Street View images are about 2 months older than the PCN, so it probably does not hold as evidence, and since I have since moved abroad I am unable to go there to take the pictures for evidence myself.

They are essentially giving us two options:

1. Pay the fine. (If paid within 14days pay only £60 instead of £100.) + the £40 from the rental.
2. Appeal to an independent appeals service (POPLA), and:
a) If the appeal succeeds - pay nothing
b) If the appeal gets rejected then I must pay the £100 (no discounts).

I would like some advice on whether appealing to POPLA is likely to succeed. Would POPLA even go there to take evidence or will they simply believe what SmartParking says? What are the best steps to take against this possibly predatory charge?