Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: BJN on July 25, 2024, 10:01:52 pm
-
I think one could argue the sign is inadequate, being placed badly placed, well after one would be preparing to turn right, and also set at the back of the footway on a lamppost. The text would be almost impossible to read before turning, for instance. However, they will just send you a Fob-Off letter if you submit representations, so you'd hae to take them to London Tribunals with the full PCN penalty in play.
Why not submit representations on something like these lines: -
Dear Sirs
Re postal PCN <number> dated <dd/mm/yyyy> for Reed Road, (entrance to LIDL).
I deny responsibility for the above PCN on the grounds that the contravention did not occurr, due to badly placed signage. On receipt of the PCN, I visited the location on foot to see what sign I had contravened.
On the day in question, approaching the turn into LIDL, I did not notice the sign which is placed very badly after the actual turn, and much to the left of the carriageway, being mounted high up on a lamppost at the back of the left-side footpath. It also contains text with the times of the restriction. This text is impossible to read on approach, until a committment to the turn has been made. It seems to me that if the council are going to impose draconian penalties on people making this turn within the restricted hours, that more attentions should have been made and more money spent on ensuring clear visibility of the sign, and its positioning for motorists approaching the turn.
I therefore request that the PCN be cancelled and the council cease enforcement until better placement of the sign is made.
Yours faithfully
Indeed, looking at the whole set-up, the yellow box junction could be considered unlawful, because it is not at a junction of two roads, but at a gated entrance to commercial properties. In addition, one must question also whether a "No Right Turn" sign can be applied in the same circumstances. By applying this No Right Turn, the council are adversely interfering in the commercial interests of the business located there.
Hopefully, others will comment on this, as I am not an expert on this sort of thing.
-
We're not local but I managed to find some images from another forum covering this box junction. Link below
https://imgur.com/NugBm8p
(https://imgur.com/NugBm8p)
-
To be honest, I think your goose is cooked, as this location is well known on this forum, and successes are rare. For the contravention itself, you could win if you can show the signs are inadequate or missing. Technical appeals based on PCN errors and errors in their mmanagement of the process can win, but here, I don't think they have so far.
However, wait a bit to see what the others say, as there may be something I've missed.
Addendum
Just to add that GSV is quite some way out-of-date, as last view is in 2021, and no "No Right Turn" signs are shown at all. If you're local, if you could take some photos of whatever signs are there it would help. Inadequacy of signs can win, as can technical appeals based on PCN and admin errors, but you have not yet posted the PCN.
-
Received a Penalty Charge Notice on 23July2024. Date of notice is 19July2024. 'Offence' occured 06July2024.
PCN is from Barking and Dagenham Council.
My wife made a prohibited right turn during restricted hours whilst going to the Lidl car park off Reede Road. She used to be a local but we moved out of London in 2022. She went to visit family in the area and decided to stop by the local Lidl, out of habit she made the turn without even noticing signage until this letter came.
See google maps location below:
https://maps.app.goo.gl/VGFAPRoWrxN4J8dy7
Unable to attach image currently
Is there anything that can help with the appeal? Or is appealing to their sensibility my best bet?
Made a few other appeals with help from pepipoo (which seems to be down) and dumb luck, and have been successful. Is my goose finally cooked? ;D
Thanks in advance