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Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: John001 on July 24, 2024, 12:33:20 pm

Title: Re: London borough of Lewisham - entering and stopping in box junction
Post by: John001 on August 02, 2024, 07:32:37 pm

Thanks for your replies MrChips and cp8759.
The timings were in fact 15:19 and 15:20 so I have responded with the following

The contravention did not occur
Because:

 

At the time I am supposed to have been in contravention, the restriction did not apply

 

Your explanation:
Dear London Borough of Lewisham, I challenge liability on the ground that the alleged contravention did not occur. This is because there is a prohibition on entering a box junction if the vehicle cannot clear the box junction without stopping, so the contravention occurs at the point of entry. The video in this case shows the vehicle entered the box junction at 15:19 pm but the penalty charge notice alleges a contravention at 15:20 pm, so while a contravention might have occurred the contravention stated on the face of the notice did not. It follows that the penalty charge must be cancelled. I am not allowed to submit my challenge without ticking one of the reasons presented me, so I have selected " At the time I am supposed to have been in contravention, the restriction did not apply"


By the way MrChips it is indeed at Grove Park Station

Title: Re: London borough of Lewisham - entering and stopping in box junction
Post by: cp8759 on August 02, 2024, 06:43:29 pm

@John001 I'd go with something very simple and to the point, based on the issue identified by MrChips:

Dear London Borough of Lewisham,

I challenge liability on the ground that the alleged contravention did not occur. This is because there is a prohibition on entering a box junction if the vehicle cannot clear the box junction without stopping, so the contravention occurs at the point of entry.

The video in this case shows the vehicle entered the box junction at 1:19 pm but the penalty charge notice alleges a contravention at 1:20 pm, so while a contravention might have occurred the contravention stated on the face of the notice did not.

It follows that the penalty charge must be cancelled.

Yours faithfully,

Send this online and make sure to keep a screenshot of the confirmation page.

Title: Re: London borough of Lewisham - entering and stopping in box junction
Post by: MrChips on July 24, 2024, 01:11:33 pm

Based on the video, I can't see any viable defence I'm afraid.  The car enters the box junction and then has to stop within the box junction directly because of a stationary vehicle blocking its exit.  Pretty much a textbook box junction contravention.

However, it's possible if you link us to a copy of the PCN (with name and address only redacted) we might spot technical issues with the wording which could yet win the day.  From the Lewisham website, the timing of the offence is shown as 1320 but the video suggests the offence occurs at 1319 (the offence occurs at point of entry) - probably not sufficiently wrong to get it cancelled but it's a start...

Incidentally, is this outside Grove Park station?  I used to have to travel there regularly when I was at school (many years ago) as our sports fields were located there.

Title: London borough of Lewisham - entering and stopping in box junction
Post by: John001 on July 24, 2024, 12:33:20 pm

Hi,

My wife was following a van into a yellow box junction. The traffic was flowing freely.
the van stopped after clearing the junction, so she was caught inside the junction.
What she couldn't see was a car 2 in front of the van on the inside of a bus.
On the video evidence, the car has stopped although there looks to be room for it to easily pass the bus.
The upshot is a pcn for stopping in the junction.
You can see this on
lewisham.gov.uk/myservices/parking
Then challenge a pcn

PCN (ticket ref) ZY09564758
VRN GF63ODM

Although she is clearly in the yellow box, is it worth appealing this PCN?