Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: francisgran on July 18, 2024, 08:34:08 pm
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Yes well done! Not even a hint in the Notice of Aceptance as to what went wrong.
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British Parking Awards Finalist. :D They need to sort out the entrants and judges. :o They would get the gold medal for the worst website though - with all the wrong grounds.
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Well done !
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So this is one for the books. The date and time was completely wrong on the PCN.
Had a notice of acceptance of representations through.
Thanks to all for advice.
https://i.postimg.cc/KYCwdYy6/IMG-8163.jpg
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I keep a hand writen diary that would show I was in Billercay all day from 8am till 4pm and no work in the Harold Hill area but other than that, only my wife as an alibi to state I would have been at home at 6:41am on anyday including 6 June.
That said, I always thought its the responability on the Council to provide evidence like a photo and log notes and that is currently lacking.
A photo with a time/date would prove it one way or another as you see in my photo; the shutters in the shop is open and would have been closed at 6:41am
I do have a CCTV on my drive but the data has been rewriten from the 6 June.
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I keep a hand writen diary that would show I was in Billercay all day from 8am till 4pm and no work in the Harold Hill area but other than that, only my wife as an alibi to state I would have been at home at 6:41am on anyday including 6 June.
That said, I always thought its the responability on the Council to provide evidence like a photo and log notes and that is currently lacking.
A photo with a time/date would prove it one way or another as you see in my photo; the shutters in the shop is open and would have been closed at 6:41am
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it's been asked before but do you or any neighbours etc have ANY evidence the van was parked on your drive at the alleged time of contravention
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Yes, they are the photos I took 10th July.
There is no evidence photos taken by the Council's Civil Enforcement Officer that I know of.
I sense they have omitted the photos taken by the CEO as they would be dated 10th July and would undermine there case.
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They are all the photos I've taken of the PCN (front only) NTO (all sides) and location.
The council haven't provided any photos that I've seen.
Here is the direct link to the front of the PCN (let me know if you also want one of the back).
https://i.postimg.cc/05J8VBzY/IMG-7980.jpg
Just to be clear.
The two photos showing a blue van were taken by you on the 10th July?
There are no evidence photos taken by the Council's Civil Enforcement Officer to be found anywhere?
Be aware that the Council will likely assert that the date & time in the CEO's handheld device is synced to a reliable time server every morning at the start of the early shift, before the CEO's go on patrol.
I was hoping that the Council's evidence photos might have some indication that they were taken on the 10th July. A timestamp or in the meta data.
When you submit a formal representation against the NTO I would demand digital copies of all photos of your vehicle taken by their CEO(s), in case there are some. Also ask for a copy of the CEO's (officer HG1125) notes for the 6th June.
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They are all the photos I've taken of the PCN (front only) NTO (all sides) and location.
The council haven't provided any photos that I've seen.
Here is the direct link to the front of the PCN (let me know if you also want one of the back).
https://i.postimg.cc/05J8VBzY/IMG-7980.jpg
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This link should have all the photos:
https://postimg.cc/gallery/Qrsb5ZGZ
There are no photos for the 6th June PCN on their website. Are these yours or their photos ?
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This link should have all the photos:
https://postimg.cc/gallery/Qrsb5ZGZ
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Thanks Incandescent, will do.
Are you able to see the photos posted?
As some where having trouble finding the web code and not sure if iI've done it right.
Should be IMG_7965 in the link.
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The van was on my driveway at 6:41am and I was still in bed.
Right. So you noW must submit a representation against the NtO on the lines I suggested earlier, If you don't respond to the NtO, you'll lose your right to take them to adjudication.
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Rest of NTO pl, we need to see the wording and web code - which is the only way to access photos.
Just looked on their website, and there are no photos.
Where on the PCN or the NTO is the web code? I can't find one.
Assuming this goes to the Adjudicator, the case will be determined on the balance of probability. And right now the balance seems to be that a PCN was served on the 6th of June. To refute that you're going to need some solid evidence that your van was somewhere else on June 6th. Is there any such evidence? Job log, delivery log perhaps?
I never get up before 7am and my wife could confirm. I do also keep a diary and that would show my only job that day was working in Billercay.
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The van was on my driveway at 6:41am and I was still in bed.
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Rest of NTO pl, we need to see the wording and web code - which is the only way to access photos.
Just looked on their website, and there are no photos.
Check again and let me know. I've posted them all and double checked by sending the link to my wife (no issues seeing them).
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Rest of NTO pl, we need to see the wording and web code - which is the only way to access photos.
Just looked on their website, and there are no photos.
Where on the PCN or the NTO is the web code? I can't find one.
Assuming this goes to the Adjudicator, the case will be determined on the balance of probability. And right now the balance seems to be that a PCN was served on the 6th of June. To refute that you're going to need some solid evidence that your van was somewhere else on June 6th. Is there any such evidence? Job log, delivery log perhaps?
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Where was the van parked on 6 June at 6:31 am?
That was my question too !
So far no response.
A very peculiar case.
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Where was the van parked on 6 June at 6:31 am?
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Rest of NTO pl, we need to see the wording and web code - which is the only way to access photos.
Just looked on their website, and there are no photos.
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https://postimg.cc/gallery/Qrsb5ZGZ
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Rest of NTO pl, we need to see the wording and web code - which is the only way to access photos.
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Just to add something.
You must have your facts absolutely correct on your reps. From your narrative, the key issue is that the PCN you found on your van on the 10th July was not for that date but for 6th June. You also spoke to the CEO who had served it on the 10th who told you why it had been served.
The photo of your van on 10th July does show it partly straddling the hatched markings, so a PC dated and served on the 10th July would be lawfully served.
Are you the only person who drives your van ? And are you sure the PCN dated 6th June was the one you found in the yellow envelope on the 10th July. I ask because in all the years I have been giving advice on forums like this, going back to the 90s, I have never heard of a situation like this. So please confirm my interpretation of the situation is correct.
Yes I am the only driver. Yes the pcn (dated 6 June) was the one received on 10 July
And I agree that my photo shows my van on the hatched markings and suspect they would have had me bang to rights if the details was all correct.
All I can suggest, therefore, is you submit representations on the lines I gave you.
Where was the van parked on the 6th June at 06.41 ?
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Link to unredacted PCN
https://postimg.cc/0rPRQZdj
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Just to add something.
You must have your facts absolutely correct on your reps. From your narrative, the key issue is that the PCN you found on your van on the 10th July was not for that date but for 6th June. You also spoke to the CEO who had served it on the 10th who told you why it had been served.
The photo of your van on 10th July does show it partly straddling the hatched markings, so a PC dated and served on the 10th July would be lawfully served.
Are you the only person who drives your van ? And are you sure the PCN dated 6th June was the one you found in the yellow envelope on the 10th July. I ask because in all the years I have been giving advice on forums like this, going back to the 90s, I have never heard of a situation like this. So please confirm my interpretation of the situation is correct.
Yes I am the only driver. Yes the pcn (dated 6 June) was the one received on 10 July
And I agree that my photo shows my van on the hatched markings and suspect they would have had me bang to rights if the details was all correct.
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Link To google street view
https://maps.app.goo.gl/rrXYtxBEX3d6BPVu7
unredacted NTO link
https://postimg.cc/jLDfJ6R0
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We need the PCN number so that the council's website can be checked to see whether there are any photos associated with the PCN issued on 6 June.
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you could also mention the restriction at the stated location does not apply at the stated 6.41am
The restriction is only for payment parking at certain days and times, the bays would be expected to be used correctly all the time
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Just to add something.
You must have your facts absolutely correct on your reps. From your narrative, the key issue is that the PCN you found on your van on the 10th July was not for that date but for 6th June. You also spoke to the CEO who had served it on the 10th who told you why it had been served.
The photo of your van on 10th July does show it partly straddling the hatched markings, so a PC dated and served on the 10th July would be lawfully served.
Are you the only person who drives your van ? And are you sure the PCN dated 6th June was the one you found in the yellow envelope on the 10th July. I ask because in all the years I have been giving advice on forums like this, going back to the 90s, I have never heard of a situation like this. So please confirm my interpretation of the situation is correct.
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you could also mention the restriction at the stated location does not apply at the stated 6.41am
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It looks like a complete ****-up, or maybe something more criminal.
Certainly you now need to submit a formal representation against the NtO: -
Dear Sirs
Re PCN <number> dated 6th June 2024 served on 10th July 2024 at Farnham Road, Harold Hill
I deny responsibility for the above PCN on the grounds that the offence did not occur
The above PCN is claimed as served to my vehicle at 06.41 on 6th June 2024, yet was only placed on my van on the 10th July. The CEO who served it was present at the time and told me that I was not parked within the bay.
Apart from service not occurring on the 6th June, I can advise you that at 06.41 on 6th June, I was in bed asleep at my house and my van was parked at <location> .
Clearly there is something seriously wrong within your department and the workings of your CEO officers. Service of a PCN dated 6th June and claimed served at 06.41, several weeks later on the 10th July, is a clear procedural impropriety and surely must be approaching a test of criminal conduct on the part of your CEO. I therefore demand that the PCN be immediately cancelled. If it is not, I shall not hesitate to register an appeal at London Tribunals.
Yours faithfully
You need to say where the van was on 6th July in the above reps. Don't fail to submit reps before the deadline or you could miss any option to go to London Tribunals.
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I defently got it 10th July. Its very visable on the windscreen inside and out so would'nt miss it.
I did check where I was on the 6th June 6:41am (in bed at home). I would be suprised if the CEO was around at that time too.
Its very suspicious how no photos have been supplied and cannot even be seen online too.
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So you found a PCN on your van dated 6th June on the 10th July. The location on the PCN was where you were parked, and there was a CEO present who told you you were not parked properly in the bay.
So was it this CEO who served the PCN on the 10th July, or had you just missed seeing the PCN on your van ? The PCN says it was served on the 6th June, so if this isn't the case, then they have committed a procedural impropriety.
Anyway, I suggest that in order to protect your option of taking them to London Tribunals, you must submit a formal representation, but we need to know the full circumstances of how you managed to get a PCN claiming to be served on the 6th June on the 10th July several weeks later.
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Hello Guys
Parked my van on a parking bay in Harold Hill (Essex) but tried to avoid another large truck next to me (at the time) by parking closer to the curb.
I arranged parking on the RingGo app but found a PCN on my van plus a parking officer telling me that I was not parked within the bay.
the date was 10 July 2024 around 12:15pm.
I can understand it when it has an impact on others but this one felt petti and unfair considering the fact I was just trying to avoid doors banging into the side of my van by using dead space. See the photos attached in link but unfortunately the big tuck was gone upon my return (I promise it was there).
8 days later:
I received a Notice to owner and I found that it didn’t have a photo as evidence and instead just had a blank space where it would be.
The date/time was 6/6/24 6:41am (parking restrictions are 8am-6:30pm). No photo evidence is available on the Havering website ether.
I later checked the PCN and found that also had a date/time of 6/6/24 6:41am.
Apart from losing the chance of submitting a informal appeal with 8 days of receiving the PCN I have also lost the right to paying at a discounted rate.
See all photos attached to include the PCN, NTO, Ringo app screen shot and location photos
https://postimg.cc/gallery/Qrsb5ZGZ